Gen III to Gen IV Engine Build

[Nader]

For the past year I have been researching how to get more power out of the GenIII engine. Since I didnt want to go the forced induction route, I was looking for a well rounded engine build to put me around 575-600 rwhp but with little or no affect to drivability. I also wanted a cool looking custom setup that hasnt been done before, well at least I havent seen one...

Choosing a builder was pretty simple - Viper Specialty. Dan expertise and knowledge of the Viper platform and how to make horspower is absolutely amazing. The guy is a great guy to deal with and has been a great help to me and this community for years. Working with Dan, we put together a setup for my driving style and horspower goals as well as just a real cool looking setup.

To get right to the details of the build, this is what we decided:

1. Custom ground billet cam
2. Stock Gen IV heads (Yes that's right!)
3. Gen IV upper intake and ported lower (Upper Polished)
4. Gen IV coil setup and Carbon Fiber col covers (Thanks again Mark J.!)
5. Gen IV injectors
6. Dan's custom Fuel Rails (Anodized Red)
7. Belllanger Headers and full exhaust
8. Dans Gen IV race Oil pickup and Oil pan setup
9. Custom Catch can setup
10. Custom dual mechanical throttle body setup
11. Custom tune

Dan started on the car roughly a month ago and has been supplying me updates and pictures so I decided to track the progress in this thread.

Prior to the tear down, we ran the car on the dyno where it will be tuned in order to get baseline numbers. As I suspected, the car was pretty strong already. It put down a healthy 497 rwhp and 515 rwtq.

Here is the baseline run...

The build begins...

Intake comes off...

Heads come off...

Timing chain cover is next.

Oil pan and timing chain....

Out with the old..

New custom ground billet cam...

Degreeing cam...

Front engine buttoned up and head gaskets go on...

Gen IV heads installed with some custom machining...

Well that is where we are so far. Dan ordered custom push rods which should be coming in next week so I should be able to report more progress then.

I am sure Dan will be lurking around this thread so feel free to comment or ask questions.

I am so damn excited it is driving me crazy!!!!!!

Stay tuned.

 

[Pythonpete]

Looks great Tom, I can't wait to see the finished product!

 

[Bobpantax]

How does the cost of doing what you are doing compare to the cost of buying a new Gen IV engine and puting it in your car?

 

[Moundir]

Sweet build! Good luck with it and hopefully it's done before winter comes so you really dont go crazy

 

[Viper Specialty]

How does the cost of doing what you are doing compare to the cost of buying a new Gen IV engine and puting it in your car?

CONSIDERABLE difference. Easily an extra 5-8K in parts, not including the computer or wiring. You would either have to go aftermarket at 10K+, or you would have to completely revise the engine wiring harness and controller system, basically building your own, as the Gen-3 and 4 harnesses share almost no similarity. You would have to update the bus system, the pedal system, and integrate the newer Occupant Restraint System to keep the new bus system happy- meaning you have to buy an engine harness, VENOM, Bus modules, ORC, Pedal system, and then integrate them. HUGE mess overall- easier to just sell and buy a G4.

The only time a FULL G4 conversion makes sense, is if you were going TT or extreme track duty, needed an engine anyway, and could easily justify the aftermarket controller cost as you would truly be "using it"- then its a real option to make the changeover. Going aftermarket allows you to keep the JTEC for Bus use, which is a better solution than even Aftermarket + Venom, as it is easier to keep the JTEC quiet than a VENOM.

 

[viper04]

+1 for Dan at Viper Specialty. Good guy to deal with.

 

[AbsolutHank]

Awesome project Tom!

Send me a PM if you're looking to sell your Gen III intake manifold. The Hennessey intake I got from you is working out great!

 

[PDCjonny]

Great work Dan and congrats to Tom going to be a monster.
And best of all drivable with no worries.

Hope to see it soon!

 

[BlknBlu]

Are you bumping up the compression and boring out the cylinders by 1 mm?

Nice job so far you should have great numbers

Bruce

 

[Nader]

Yes we will be bumping compression to 10:5. I also forgot to mention that we are also polishing other stop parts like the thermostat housing, Alternator etc. It is going to look sick!

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Are you bumping up the compression and boring out the cylinders by 1 mm?

Nice job so far you should have great numbers

Bruce

 

[fqberful]

I talked to Dan about this exact build about 6 weeks ago. So it was you! I'm going to be watching this build with great interest as it's exactly what I want to do. I have a question though, if you're staying with the JTEC PCM how are you working out going from the wasted spark shared coils to the GenIV individual coils? Isn't that a lot of load for the drivers in the PCM ?

Please keep us all in the loop with your progress and outcome!

 

[345s-bspinnin]

That's is quite the upgrade. Looking very very good. I can't wait for some results. Keep us posted.

 

[Nader]

Guys I also wanted to mention that I have a bunch of parts for sale if interested. Here is a list:

1. Gen III polished intake ( I have a prospective buyer)
2. Corsa Track Exhaust
3. Roe High Flow Cats
4. Gen III K&N intake and filters
5. Quality plug wires
6. Stock GenIII Computer with Roe performance tune


PM me if you have any interest.

 

[Phil47]

Looks good Tom! You must feel like a little kid again waiting for the build to be finished. Let me know when you have the exhaust ready to be shipped.

 

[Tiago]

very interesting swap. Look forward to the results!

 

[Nader]

Exhaust is wrapped up and ready to go. PM me your address.

Looks good Tom! You must feel like a little kid again waiting for the build to be finished. Let me know when you have the exhaust ready to be shipped.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Are you bumping up the compression and boring out the cylinders by 1 mm?

Nice job so far you should have great numbers

Bruce

Compression, yes. No over-bore, Tom's short-block was in great shape overall, no reason to tear it down for a couple extra cubes.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I talked to Dan about this exact build about 6 weeks ago. So it was you! I'm going to be watching this build with great interest as it's exactly what I want to do. I have a question though, if you're staying with the JTEC PCM how are you working out going from the wasted spark shared coils to the GenIV individual coils? Isn't that a lot of load for the drivers in the PCM ?

Please keep us all in the loop with your progress and outcome!

While it will still be "wasted spark" in design, it will have Coil On Plug and even spark energy between cylinders. This does however mean two coils per ignition output. While it is not impossible that the JTEC may be able to handle the current, I will likely avoid the headache and take an alternate route. I have not yet decided which direction will be the most cost effective.

 

[jknappster]

PM sent........

Guys I also wanted to mention that I have a bunch of parts for sale if interested. Here is a list:

1. Gen III polished intake ( I have a prospective buyer)
2. Corsa Track Exhaust
3. Roe High Flow Cats
4. Gen III K&N intake and filters
5. Quality plug wires
6. Stock GenIII Computer with Roe performance tune


PM me if you have any interest.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Guys I also wanted to mention that I have a bunch of parts for sale if interested. Here is a list:

1. Gen III polished intake ( I have a prospective buyer)
2. Corsa Track Exhaust
3. Roe High Flow Cats
4. Gen III K&N intake and filters
5. Quality plug wires
6. Stock GenIII Computer with Roe performance tune


PM me if you have any interest.

Tom: I think there was a mistake above-

Dont you have a DC reflashed computer, and ALSO an SCT tool loaded with a Roe tune, that has never even been plugged in?

 

[JAY]

Niiiiiice build . looking forward to the final pics and out come ! Jay

 

[stew4706]

Tom, thanks for the details! Can't wait to see the numbers!

 

[Nader]

Yup. You are right. Stock computer with Roe Tune and SCT tool with Roe tune - never used.... Both for sale.

Tom: I think there was a mistake above-

Dont you have a DC reflashed computer, and ALSO an SCT tool loaded with a Roe tune, that has never even been plugged in?

 

[jknappster]

So the exhaust is sold then?

 

[Nader]

Pretty much... I will keep you posted if it falls through.

 

[Twister]

497 rwhp was a solid numberto begin with. What were all your mods to hit that number?

Did the gen4 heads simply just bolt on? Would love to have gen 4 heads on mine! Or was the machineing of the heads to make them fit?

Very excited

 

[Nader]

My car was running all bolt ins. Corsa, hf cats, k&n, single blade throttle body, and a tune. The number is pretty accurate as I ran it prior to the cats and it ran 482 on a completely different dyno.

There is machining involved but I will let dan take that one.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Did the gen4 heads simply just bolt on? Would love to have gen 4 heads on mine! Or was the machineing of the heads to make them fit?

Don't be fooled; no, they don't just bolt on. Gen-4 heads require clearancing and other machine work in order to drop onto the block, and are only compatible with other Gen-4 accessories. It is a package, not a set of bolt on heads like the Strikers where all of your original parts can go back on. While we can sell this package complete as you would expect, many of the parts are no longer the same as what you would be getting from the dealer.

 

[malcoll]

Just sent you a PM.... do you still have the hi flow Cats?

 

[jknappster]

PM me if you're looking to sell the throttle body.