Gen V ACR performance speculation...

[Boxer12]

Given the 'standard' for the ACR is the Ring record, I imagine that SRT has some or will get some good data from the GT3-R on the Ring and use this to develop the new ACR. Price is really no object since the goal is world record setting performance. If it costs $250k, then so be it. I want to see a 6:50 time. Farnbacher will drive it. I will buy it.

 

[ACR steve]

Now it has to beat the Porsche - good luck it wont be easy in a street car the 918 is an insane car

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Now it has to beat the Porsche - good luck it wont be easy in a street car the 918 is an insane car

I agree totally but watch the following replies about its cost etc. blah blah. The 918 IS insane and a winner so far.

 

[Jay M]

What would it take to get a street legal Viper that fast? Bigger tires? Stiffer suspension? 800 HP?

The thing that impressed me most about the 918, was how easy it looked to drive. I guess a million dollars really does get you something

~Jay

 

[ACRsnake]

At least 675 -690 HP , 200 -300 lbs lighter and some creative aero , stiffer suspension and higher gearing .

 

[ACRucrazy]

Now it has to beat the Porsche - good luck it wont be easy in a street car the 918 is an insane car

The Viper does not have to beat any $1,000,000 supercar IMO. Would be nice if it did however..

 

[Allan]

Buy one of the GT3-R Vipers.
They are taking orders for those.
459,000 dollars.
Based on the GTS-R ALMS car. Also non-street legal though.
You could really kick the crap out of all those other NASA dudes with that.

 

[Martin]

To be honest, if the Gen V ACR can't beat the Porsche 918, it wouldn't keep me from buying it. I'm not going to make any money from winning races on the track, and I want something that I have fun with - at a reasonable price. If I crash a 918, that's like crashing a mansion. If I crash a Gen V ACR, that's akin to crashing a condo. Both will be painful, but I think I'd feel free to have a lot more fun with a Gen V ACR than I would with a fully optioned 918. I'm just not in the kind of league to have fun with a $1M car.

The key is to have a car that handily beats the Gen IV ACR and the Gen V TA in my opinion. I loved my Gen IV ACR - and I'd love to see a Gen V ACR that was more insane. If it had a new engine (direct injected with 730HP+), active aero, carbon/ceramic brakes, heavier clutch with better feel, stripped down interior with real race seats, manually adjustable race suspension, titanium exhaust (rear exit preferably), new ultra-lightweight exclusive wheels (Sidewinder III), some ACR-customer-specific paint choices, and "electronic crap delete" option, I'd be all over it. In fact, I already have a "new ACR fund" established to get one if it comes out.

I'll never buy a Ferrari, I'll never buy a Lambo, and I certainly am not going to pay $1M for a Porsche - when I buy a crazy-car, it's going to be American built and have all the nuances of an American built car. Call me crazy, but there's a cultural thing involved with buying a Viper. They're just plain old fun - not the most refined, not the easiest to drive, and some people don't appreciate them. But, they are a kick in the ass and they make me happy. You just can't put a price on that.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

Take a look at the ACR-X ring time. The Gen V will be even better....

 

[Allan]

Take a look at the ACR-X ring time. The Gen V will be even better....

Yeah. They said they think that they could easily get under 7 minutes with a few more runs in the X.

I don't doubt it a bit.

 

[Hemotoxic]

Price is really no object since the goal is world record setting performance. If it costs $250k, then so be it. I want to see a 6:50 time.

aieeee, no! I already have to eat from the dollar menu for the next 30,000 meals to afford a regular Viper and you want to make that 60,000?

6:50 should be possible for way closer to 150 than 250.

 

[Allan]

Well, the low-buck/economy Vipers will still be around 100k,............don't worry.

Some of us just have to slum it like that................

 

[Boxer12]

The GT3-R is a purpose built racer, and I only buy street cars at this point. All 'race' cars become obsolete as soon as the next model comes out and bests the current model. Look at the Ferrari Challenge cars, who wants one after two years? The Stradale on the other hand will retain its desirability as a performance driven street car. The TA is great but not 'radical' as Ralph has promised the ACR to be, so with 'radical' in mind, I expect the ACR to 'blow away' the TA. Let's speculate that the TA would best the ACR-X time at the Ring, then the 'radical' ACR would demolish it. How? It will need a lot of the GT3-R features. Lets say the ACR, like the GT3-R has the same V-10, Xtrac six-speed sequential transmission with paddle shifters, six-piston front brake calipers with four-piston rears, lightweight wheels, and a multi-disc race clutch on top of some aero improvements and weight loss. And, as I have been saying for years, make the car able to be lowered. That might do it?? Can it be done for $250k? I think so. Would it compete with the european hypercars? I think so.

 

[elanderholm]

People need to realize that we are starting to approach the ceiling for road cars on road legal tires. We are way down the path of diminishing returns for improvements and money spent. It will/is becoming exponentially more difficult to remove large amounts of time when you start running in the sub 7 min realm. The record for race cars is 6:11. The difference between a 6:11 time and 6:57 time is much, much greater than a 7:11 and 8:00 time. It is not linear.

 

[The_Greg]

People need to realize that we are starting to approach the ceiling for road cars on road legal tires. We are way down the path of diminishing returns for improvements and money spent. It will/is becoming exponentially more difficult to know of large amounts of time when you start running in the sub 7 min realm. The record for race cars is 6:11. The difference in between a 6:11 time and 6:57 time is much, much more than a 7:11 and 8:00 time. It is not linear.

Well said. However, learning about the trials and tribulations that took place to get the record that second time (as read from Maurice's book) I'm wondering if they could even squeeze more out of what they have.

 

[ViperSmith]

People need to realize that we are starting to approach the ceiling for road cars on road legal tires. We are way down the path of diminishing returns for improvements and money spent. It will/is becoming exponentially more difficult to remove large amounts of time when you start running in the sub 7 min realm. The record for race cars is 6:11. The difference in between a 6:11 time and 6:57 time is much, much greater than a 7:11 and 8:00 time. It is not linear.

I've said this over and over. We are in a crazy time for cars. High performance is big money and lots of competition. This isn't 1992 all over again.

 

[bluestreak]

People need to realize that we are starting to approach the ceiling for road cars on road legal tires. We are way down the path of diminishing returns for improvements and money spent. It will/is becoming exponentially more difficult to remove large amounts of time when you start running in the sub 7 min realm. The record for race cars is 6:11. The difference between a 6:11 time and 6:57 time is much, much greater than a 7:11 and 8:00 time. It is not linear.

No we aren't. The tires will continue to get faster and the cars will be tuned to handle the extra grip. People said the same thing when the first cars ran in the 7:20's at the Nurburgring. A few years later, we have several cars in the 7:teens and some approaching sub 7:10. I say that by the end of the upcoming generation (C7,Gen V,R36,911) we will see plenty more approaching low teens with the top tier cars like the Gen V ACR hanging a bit back from the 918 type cars.

SRT does not need to compete with those cars for most of the owners to end up bench racing only. Beating up on the non hypercar Porsche, Nissan, Chevy, Lambo, Audi, Ferrari, Lexus and BMW is plenty enough.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Well I had read the ACR will have around 1500lbs of down force so that a bit more than the P1 but the P1 will most likely be lighter and have a ton more power. While the ACR will lose to those hyper cars in the straights just because they are lighter with way more power, Id bet that with sound non-cutting edge engineering they can build the ACR to compete with them in the twisties. Equip it with a DI engine making 700hp+, a proper, refined suspension setup, 200lbs less, that 1500lb down force and an equivalent MPSC type tire and it will run with the P1 and maybe even the Porsche around the Nurburgring. I vaguely remember Ralph challenging any mfg to test against the then new 08 ACR. None took him up on the challenge if memory serves. It would be great if he approached this upcoming ACR with the same bravado and better execution. Obviously they can but is there a desire to and R&D available to do so? After witnessing recent events at SRT Im not so sure anymore. But I remain hopeful.

 

[Boxer12]

I think SRT's R&D team is called Riley Motorsports and they have the know-how, they just need to overcome the perception that this car needs to be within the avg Viper enthusiast's current budget and build something with a higher performance level without regard to cost. I know it will still be a lot less costly to build than the European hypercars. Those have a lot of bells and whistles that don't really need to be on a performance car. They are more techno showcases. If the car costs more it will just be perceived as more special (ala the Ford GT). Jmo

 

[SnakeBitten]

I agree. Keep it simple since the budget just ain't there like the others, but focus on performance. Since its a street car also it should have a modicum of comfort with of course an option for the ********. MHO

 

[BigDawg]

The ACR does not need to beat any supercar, period. Would it be great if it did? Definitely. However, the Viper does need to beat all sports cars and exotics, handily. That means Aventador, Gallardos, all non LaFerrari Ferraris, Corvettes, all non 918 Porsches, GTRs, etc.

I was at the ALMS in Austin this past weekend and spent a lot of time with SRT reps trying to convince them to make the ACR close to the GT3-R. Some eventually acknowledged that the front does in fact overpower the rear of the street car. Their excuse, well drive one and then it won't matter. I was quick to point out that while that is important, giving it an extremely radical "jaw-dropping" look will help siphon off drivers from the Lamborghini crowd. They talked about the Viper already being priced out of its' market and that is their concern with the new ACR, should it come. I reminded them about the TA edition which should bridge the gap and provide people with a good option. Maybe even offer a real wing for it in the future. If they can make a street legal STYLE GT3-R ACR and price it under $200k with all options, should there be any, they will have a winner. Create a production limit based on solid orders following announcement. The interior is all molded carbon dash, doors, etc. Cue off of that heavily, maybe even use the same moulds where you can.

It can be done. The question is, would you buy it? What level of performance would you demand or are the looks of this prospect enough?

 

[ACRucrazy]

People are already ******** about 100-140k on a Viper. Only a select few will pony up $200,000 for a Viper while everyone else including magazine writers will have a field day with SRT @ that price.

 

[Martin]

I think the biggest problem with bumping up the price is that it goes against the original spirit of the car. Vipers have always been incredible cars with relatively affordable prices (despite what the non-Viper world thinks about what the owners paid). Even though there are a lot of refinements in the car, and a lot of the gripes that the press had about the car have been addressed (crappy interior, for one), many Viper owners look at the "typical" Gen V from a horsepower perspective. Even though the car is a lot "better" than the base Gen IV in many ways, one can't help but see the Gen V as a 40 HP increase in power for a $40k increase in price. I'm not sure that's rational thought or not, but it's out there.For the ACR, I'd be willing to pay $180k for one as long as it isn't just a suspension/aero package. It would have to be something really interesting to drop that kind of money on a car.As far as comparing it to the $1M cars out there - I don't even take that into consideration. For $1M, the car should damned well be able to take me into outer space and back safely.

 

[ViperSmith]

I think the biggest problem with bumping up the price is that it goes against the original spirit of the car. Vipers have always been incredible cars with relatively affordable prices (despite what the non-Viper world thinks about what the owners paid). Even though there are a lot of refinements in the car, and a lot of the gripes that the press had about the car have been addressed (crappy interior, for one), many Viper owners look at the "typical" Gen V from a horsepower perspective. Even though the car is a lot "better" than the base Gen IV in many ways, one can't help but see the Gen V as a 40 HP increase in power for a $40k increase in price. I'm not sure that's rational thought or not, but it's out there.For the ACR, I'd be willing to pay $180k for one as long as it isn't just a suspension/aero package. It would have to be something really interesting to drop that kind of money on a car.As far as comparing it to the $1M cars out there - I don't even take that into consideration. For $1M, the car should damned well be able to take me into outer space and back safely.

Inflation adjusted, the Viper has always been in the $90k range, the base SRT isn't a whole lot more than late model Gen IV's

 

[Martin]

Inflation adjusted, the Viper has always been in the $90k range, the base SRT isn't a whole lot more than late model Gen IV's

I tend to agree - and the current price of the base car isn't unreasonable when you look at what you get for the money. Where the perception issue comes into play is when people look at the "typical optioned" cars out there today. A bare-bones (which I like) car can be had for around $100k, but those options add up fast and from what I'm seeing, there are a lot of cars on dealer lots that are in the $130k-$150k range. I personally like the ability to have a car built that has the exact options I want - but it's also tough for dealers to pick options that they think will be in high demand. One end of the spectrum is a car that is what it is - take it or leave it (Gen I and early Gen II). The other end of the spectrum is what we have today (much like the Porsche option list, which makes my head explode whenever I think about buying one). I think the TA is a great example of the "right" packaging - give people a choice of colors, and the rest is what it is for the most part.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Talked with Ralph about the rumor of a Gen V ACR at COTA and his reply was just that. Rumor, but that is expected.

 

[BigDawg]

Talked with Ralph about the rumor of a Gen V ACR at COTA and his reply was just that. Rumor, but that is expected.

I never spoke with Ralph but the other reps indicated it was not even in the works yet. This wasn't direct, so I'm inclined to believe it. My guess, they're (damn good idea) waiting out the Z06 replacement. I think the ZR1 will be a ways off so that's probably not their concern. One thing is for certain, Carbon Ceramic brakes will happen. The other question but no answer was about the transmission. If they aren't going to get HP over 700 how will they compensate? Dual clutch should be more than enough. Can't wait to see what they have in store down the road.

 

[TacDoc]

I am really looking forward to the ACR. I was going back and forth on a TA since my local dealer had decided not to sell the Viper. My local Chevy dealer had an unsold Stingray allocation and gave it my wife at invoice 3 hours before order or lose. For me now the decision will rest on 2016 ZR1 or ?2016 ACR? Sources saying 700 HP in the ZR1 (600 in 2015 Z07). I saw where Keating gets 700 hp by adding Bellangers to the current Gen V so I have great hopes for the ACR.

 

[Boxer12]

^^I have a suspicion the zr1 will be released before the ACR, so if you are the type to jump the gun, you might be sorry you didn't wait! Ralph says the new ACR will be 'radical' so I don't expect just an aero upgrade. I am hoping that I don't have to dump $50k in upgrades to make it what I want it to be (track beast) like the Gen II & IV. The bar is raised now, Ralph has spent a lot of time at the track with the Gen IV so I don't expect that to be the case with the Gen V. Then again, if the bean counters have their way....

 

[mnc2886]

^^I have a suspicion the zr1 will be released before the ACR, so if you are the type to jump the gun, you might be sorry you didn't wait! Ralph says the new ACR will be 'radical' so I don't expect just an aero upgrade. I am hoping that I don't have to dump $50k in upgrades to make it what I want it to be (track beast) like the Gen II & IV. The bar is raised now, Ralph has spent a lot of time at the track with the Gen IV so I don't expect that to be the case with the Gen V. Then again, if the bean counters have their way....

If the Gen V sales don't pick up, we won't see an ACR. I would expect though that if it were to be released in the next two years that some work on it has commenced.