Gen V Super Charger Option

[01sapphirebob]

An SRT supercharger option for the Gen V is just not going to happen. And, I do not think it will happen through Mopar either. Mopar did not offer a supercharger option for the Gen I,II, III or IV. It ain't happening for the Gen V. I recommend that people stop dreaming about this and move on from the issue. Those who want boost will eventually figure out a way to achieve it in the aftermarket like we did with all the other prior generations. It will just be more money until the code is cracked enough to allow a custom calibration of the stock controller which will make a supercharger application kit less expensive.

In the meantime, expecting an off road MOPAR controller like the one sold by MOPAR for the Gen IV is not an unreasonable expectation.


JM2Cs.

Again playing devils advocate here but why do you think it won't happen? In my mind all evidence points to it being a good possibility this time around at the very least.

A Mopar PCM WILL happen if i'm not mistaken. I think I remember the MOPAR rep telling us so at VOI which is great. Considering they were showing up exhaust and header options through MOPAR for the GEN V this is pretty easy to see that the PCM wil happen.

 

[Jack B]

Another substantiated rumor is that SCT is close to releasing a Gen4 version. I use SCT on my Gen2, It is all you need to tune..The Gen4 and Gen5 pcm have to be somewhat similar.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Another substantiated rumor is that SCT is close to releasing a Gen4 version. I use SCT on my Gen2, It is all you need to tune..The Gen4 and Gen5 pcm have to be somewhat similar.

Gen4 and Gen5 are not close to the same, the Gen5 is very fast and more complex so cracking one will not help cracking two. I highly doubt that SCT is on the cusp of anything.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Again playing devils advocate here but why do you think it won't happen? In my mind all evidence points to it being a good possibility this time around at the very least.

A Mopar PCM WILL happen if i'm not mistaken. I think I remember the MOPAR rep telling us so at VOI which is great. Considering they were showing up exhaust and header options through MOPAR for the GEN V this is pretty easy to see that the PCM wil happen.

The PCM will happen for sure just who knows by when.

Mopar wanted to test the waters on what people would buy with the displays they had, there are NO Mopar parts even available yet (well the sill plates are a carry over) and with cars shipping that stuff should be on the shelves ready to ship and install for us! They have had plenty of time...2+ years to gear up if they were serious. In my experience they will probably bring less the 1/4 of what they talked about to market, and when they do the pricing will be so outrageous people will wait for the aftermarket to bring "reasonable priced alternatives". Don't get me wrong I would love to see all the cool stuff we want come from Mopar, but they do not seem to have any urgency for releasing stuff AND they will not do anything to be competitive with pricing because they are Mopar.

 

[Viper Grenade]

I wish they would stop farting around and do a Twin Turbo setup from the factory. They could use a smaller turbo (6262) and make 750bhp easily at 5-6psi of boost. It should also meet EPA standards easier than a SC. At that point the After Market would be able to sell the cars for SRT because lets face it, a BIG appeal of cars like the GTR and Supra were that it doesn't take much to get them to make big power. It wouldn't take anything more than bolt-ons and tuning at that point to make 1000bhp-1200bhp.

 

[Bobpantax]

All of what evidence? There is no credible evidence that SRT is developing an OEM supercharged Gen V. There is credible evidence that SRT is not doing so including, but not limited to, the fact that the engine compartment has an X brace in the way;( An OEM supercharger would be a twin screw mounted on top similar to the Ford Lightning, Ford GT, Corvette ZR1, Cadillac CTS-V, and ZL1 Camaro had or have); and, Dick Winkles public comments, and Ralph G's public comments make it clear that it is not going to happen.

The MOPAR controller will most probably have the same capabilities as the Gen IV offroad controller had - no more. SRT does not control MOPAR. MOPAR is a much larger organization within Chrysler. SRT is a new, small, limited budget entity staffed by a dedicated, highly skilled group of performance car lovers who are subject to the same number crunchers as everyone else within Chrysleer - perhaps even more. I can only guess how hard it must be in the current economic and regulatory environment to get things approved. A hint at thisw was Sergio M's public comments concerning the economics of V10 and V12 engines versus V6 engines. Sergio said that V10 and V12 engines only make sense if the customer has to pay up for same since he knows that he has good margins on the V6s. That message was very clear. If a performance car is not profitable, it will not be allowed to be produced. It suggested that the idea of a pure loss leading halo car is a thing of the past and has been tossed on the scrap heap of automotive management history.

Again playing devils advocate here but why do you think it won't happen? In my mind all evidence points to it being a good possibility this time around at the very least.

A Mopar PCM WILL happen if i'm not mistaken. I think I remember the MOPAR rep telling us so at VOI which is great. Considering they were showing up exhaust and header options through MOPAR for the GEN V this is pretty easy to see that the PCM wil happen.

 

[ViperSmith]

At $100k I'd say we are paying up for the V10!

 

[VENOM V]

All of what evidence? There is no credible evidence that SRT is developing an OEM supercharged Gen V. There is credible evidence that SRT is not doing so including, but not limited to, the fact that the engine compartment has an X brace in the way;( An OEM supercharger would be a twin screw mounted on top similar to the Ford Lightning, Ford GT, Corvette ZR1, Cadillac CTS-V, and ZL1 Camaro had or have); and, Dick Winkles public comments, and Ralph G's public comments make it clear that it is not going to happen.

The MOPAR controller will most probably have the same capabilities as the Gen IV offroad controller had - no more. SRT does not control MOPAR. MOPAR is a much larger organization within Chrysler. SRT is a new, small, limited budget entity staffed by a dedicated, highly skilled group of performance car lovers who are subject to the same number crunchers as everyone else within Chrysleer - perhaps even more. I can only guess how hard it must be in the current economic and regulatory environment to get things approved. A hint at thisw was Sergio M's public comments concerning the economics of V10 and V12 engines versus V6 engines. Sergio said that V10 and V12 engines only make sense if the customer has to pay up for same since he knows that he has good margins on the V6s. That message was very clear. If a performance car is not profitable, it will not be allowed to be produced. It suggested that the idea of a pure loss leading halo car is a thing of the past and has been tossed on the scrap heap of automotive management history.

Bob,

Although I agree with most all of your evidence, good leadership thinks outside of the box. I think that one could make a pretty convincing argument that the Viper should have been dead in 2010, if you solely look at bean counting. But Ralph and Sergio revived it, fresh out of bankrupcy against all odds. The Viper is different- it is Chrysler's halo car and is the arguably one of the fastest if not the fastest production car, and it is American. It is a symbol to the Chrysler employees, and for these reasons it has value beyond a typical car profit/loss statement. Although I agree with you that forced induction is most likely not going to happen, never say never. Rules are meant to be broken. Sacred cows make the tastiest meals.

 

[01sapphirebob]

All of what evidence?

There was a GEN V engine SEEN with a supercharger on it. The comments that Ralph and Dick have said about beefing up the bottom end of the motor for moding/supercharging. Superchargers have been talked about for the SRT (8) lineup for w a while now so it would make sense that they would include the V10 in that program.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

That was a Gen4 engine and was a customers engine not a development engine.

There was a GEN V engine SEEN with a supercharger on it. The comments that Ralph and Dick have said about beefing up the bottom end of the motor for moding/supercharging. Superchargers have been talked about for the SRT (8) lineup for w a while now so it would make sense that they would include the V10 in that program.

 

[chorps]

Bob,

Although I agree with most all of your evidence, good leadership thinks outside of the box. I think that one could make a pretty convincing argument that the Viper should have been dead in 2010, if you solely look at bean counting. But Ralph and Sergio revived it, fresh out of bankrupcy against all odds. The Viper is different- it is Chrysler's halo car and is the arguably one of the fastest if not the fastest production car, and it is American. It is a symbol to the Chrysler employees, and for these reasons it has value beyond a typical car profit/loss statement. Although I agree with you that forced induction is most likely not going to happen, never say never. Rules are meant to be broken. Sacred cows make the tastiest meals.

Chrysler probably has good research into what the Viper does for the company and brand. How many VCA owners have bought RAM trucks or Jeeps because they favoured the brand that brought them the Viper?

Also, the V10 must not be very expensive to produce but the R&D costs must be pretty significant. I just remember the FirePower concept of putting a Hemi V8 into the Viper chassis...I think Chrysler should go for it...it would expand the volumes and quantities for mass production, and also justify more R&D into the shared platforms. The Viper V10 would be nice to go into another product too...like the drag pack Challenger or SRT10 Challenger.

As for forced induction, I've noticed that most of the SRT engineers aren't very big proponents of forced induction, they are looking at things like heat soak and plumbing etc. I don't think they'll put out an option for forced induction but I'm pretty sure they were testing a 750hp Viper since 2010.

 

[TrackAire]

All of what evidence? There is no credible evidence that SRT is developing an OEM supercharged Gen V. There is credible evidence that SRT is not doing so including, but not limited to, the fact that the engine compartment has an X brace in the way;( An OEM supercharger would be a twin screw mounted on top similar to the Ford Lightning, Ford GT, Corvette ZR1, Cadillac CTS-V, and ZL1 Camaro had or have); and, Dick Winkles public comments, and Ralph G's public comments make it clear that it is not going to happen.

The MOPAR controller will most probably have the same capabilities as the Gen IV offroad controller had - no more. SRT does not control MOPAR. MOPAR is a much larger organization within Chrysler. SRT is a new, small, limited budget entity staffed by a dedicated, highly skilled group of performance car lovers who are subject to the same number crunchers as everyone else within Chrysleer - perhaps even more. I can only guess how hard it must be in the current economic and regulatory environment to get things approved. A hint at thisw was Sergio M's public comments concerning the economics of V10 and V12 engines versus V6 engines. Sergio said that V10 and V12 engines only make sense if the customer has to pay up for same since he knows that he has good margins on the V6s. That message was very clear. If a performance car is not profitable, it will not be allowed to be produced. It suggested that the idea of a pure loss leading halo car is a thing of the past and has been tossed on the scrap heap of automotive management history.

"That message was very clear. If a performance car is not profitable, it will not be allowed to be produced. It suggested that the idea of a pure loss leading halo car is a thing of the past and has been tossed on the scrap heap of automotive management history."

Bob,

If this is the case, then Sergio and any other large OEM's that build in first world countries will have instantly lost the battle to future car sales out of places like China, India and anybody else that pays near slave wages. When there is no emotion, no want and no desire for a vehicle because it is just another cookie cutter copy of the same everyone else is building, then the only selling feature is the price. We can't compete with just price, not with the wages we pay here and most first world countries.

Halo vehicles matter, at least to people where cars are more than just a way to get from point A to point B. The ability to know that your car (even if you don't buy a companies halo vehicle) comes from that technology, design attitude and bloodline matters. Cars are still an emotional purchase and denying that market (at least in the USA) would be a huge mistake for the future. Profits matter, but you cannot have profits without sales....the top line sales number on the income statment matters most, everything else will follow.

Since the loss leaders are usually such a small production run, most big OEM's waste more money on bad advertising campaigns than what they built the halo vehicle for. The only Lexus I can name right now is the LFA.....the only high end vehicle from Volkswagen that I can remember is the Veyron. The key is remembering the vehicles and the emotion they produce. Without that, we'll all be driving something made in India or China.

Although I don't think supercharging is in the cards for a Gen 5, at SEMA they had headers and a PCM displayed IIRC. That would probably push the crank hp to at least 680 horsepower. Randy Probst had to feather the throttle on the track with just "640 hp"...without major drag racing type suspension and tires selection, our limiting factor is we're stuck with rwd and the laws of physics.

Cheers,
George

 

[Jack B]

Unsolicited comment by an Arrow Racing tech. Logic says the core code is similar on Gen4/Gen5

Gen4 and Gen5 are not close to the same, the Gen5 is very fast and more complex so cracking one will not help cracking two. I highly doubt that SCT is on the cusp of anything.

 

[98RT98]

if they put a Supercharger, Twin Turbo's or Nitrous on the Viper i hope they claim 641 HP not 700+ dont want to go back to the old day, late 60 tys when the insurance co. said "we are not insuring these Muscle Cars any more"

 

[Smog Dog]

That was a Gen4 engine and was a customers engine not a development engine.

SapphireBob is talking about the 4 pictures which were deleted from the CAAP tour thread before this thread was started. Did you even see the pictures which were deleted from the CAAP tour thread----or are you talking about the pictures taken at Arrow which are still up? I think you guys are talking about 2 different engines.....

Bill

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I'm referencing the Paxton equipped engine wrapped in plastic that had "for Dick Winkles" on it.

SapphireBob is talking about the 4 pictures which were deleted from the CAAP tour thread before this thread was started. Did you even see the pictures which were deleted from the CAAP tour thread----or are you talking about the pictures taken at Arrow which are still up? I think you guys are talking about 2 different engines.....

Bill

 

[Bobpantax]

That was not a Gen V engine. The development of the 6.2 liter supercharged engine has nothing to do at all with the Viper engine. They do not "include" two entirely different engines in one development program.

Furthermore, there has been no official announcement that the 6.2 liter engine has received a green light from the bean counters although based on the fact that it could be used in as many as five vehicles and it is needed to be competitive with the Mustang GT500 and the Camaro ZL1, I think that it will be green lighted.

Sergio loved the Viper but it is public knowledge that he said that it HAS to make a profit and his recent public remarks reaffirm his prior statement. Keep in mind that Sergio heads up Fiat and Chrysler and Fiat has a very well regarded and highly profitable halo car called the Ferrari. It also has the lessor halo car called the Maserati.

Sergio is a tax attorney/chartered accountant with incredible management skills and a passion for profit and performance cars - in that order. The days of Chrysler being inefficiently or poorly managed, at least for now, are over. If the Viper does not produce a profit, it will not survive. I believe that there is no budget to spend on the development, testing and certification of a supercharged V10 engine. I also think it would be an incompetent managerial decision to do same. Money should be spent on making the car lighter and, to the extent possible, making it handle better. The history of the Viper shows that it has always been a road racing vehicle with some using it at the drag strip despite the fact that its linkage and shift points were not always ideal for that purpose. The best of supercharged applications in a passenger vehicle will suffer more heat soak than an NA car. Thus supercharging from the factory does not even fit the purpose of the vehicle.

Bottom line. With an increasingly restrictive regulatory environment, the probability of an OEM boost option for the Viper being developed is less not more than in prior generations. Those of us who want boost on a Gen V will have to do it ourselves just as we had to do it with the Gen I,II,III and IV.

Those who are waiting for same are deluding themselves. If my car was not perfectly modded the way I want it, I would have a firm order in for a Gen V. Why? Because there is no guarantee that any of us will wake up tomorrow or wake up intact. Every day someone waits is a day he or she will never get back. Better an exceptional car now than shoulda coulda woulda later. Shoulda coulda woulda is a sad and pathetic state of mind.

There was a GEN V engine SEEN with a supercharger on it. The comments that Ralph and Dick have said about beefing up the bottom end of the motor for moding/supercharging. Superchargers have been talked about for the SRT (8) lineup for w a while now so it would make sense that they would include the V10 in that program.

 

[kdaviper]

Lol, If you have a Viper, you're already paying the highest insurance premiums in the Auto world.

 

[ViperSmith]

I do wonder if SRT could lease technology, such as the porsche carrera V10 and modifying it. We see a lot of the higher end brands (Pagani) taking engines from a third party (AMG) and upgrading them to suit their needs.

No point developing your own, smaller V10 when you could leverage existing technology to build a spectacular, high revving V10.

 

[kdaviper]

I do wonder if SRT could lease technology, such as the porsche carrera V10 and modifying it. We see a lot of the higher end brands (Pagani) taking engines from a third party (AMG) and upgrading them to suit their needs.

No point developing your own, smaller V10 when you could leverage existing technology to build a spectacular, high revving V10.

A lot of work on the Viper's V-10 and many other components IS done by 3rd-party.

 

[Jack B]

There was a GenV wrapped in plastic with a Paxton, hard pipes with an intercooler attached - those pictures were deleted.

I'm referencing the Paxton equipped engine wrapped in plastic that had "for Dick Winkles" on it.

 

[QUICKSRT10/SRT8]

I am the picture taker

 

[Mopar Boy]

I highly doubt that SCT is on the cusp of anything.

Im sorry, off subject, but this royally cracked me up!

Thanks for the laugh, Mark!

 

[Bobpantax]

OK. Did anyone who worked at Arrow state that it was a Gen V engine? Did the sign on it say so? But, even if it was, which, per Mark J. it was not, the existence of a Gen IV or Gen V engine with a Paxton at Arrow is NOT evidence that either SRT or MOPAR are developing a supercharger kit for the Gen V. If you saw a Gen V engine with an Eaton supercharger like those used on the Chevrolet boosted products, that MIGHT indicate someone was doing a little sniffing around the subject matter or that a special engine is being built for someone special.

I am the picture taker

 

[Jack B]

Bob:

it had the new plastic manifold - it was a Gen V.

OK. Did anyone who worked at Arrow state that it was a Gen V engine? Did the sign on it say so? But, even if it was, which, per Mark J. it was not, the existence of a Gen IV or Gen V engine with a Paxton at Arrow is NOT evidence that either SRT or MOPAR are developing a supercharger kit for the Gen V. If you saw a Gen V engine with an Eaton supercharger like those used on the Chevrolet boosted products, that MIGHT indicate someone was doing a little sniffing around the subject matter or that a special engine is being built for someone special.

 

[ViperTony]

It had the GenIV manifold, not the new plastic/nylon manifold.

 

[Bobpantax]

With Tony's post, I rest my case. Next.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

It had the GenIV manifold, not the new plastic/nylon manifold.

Even if it would have had the GenV intake, there are rumors that it will be an option for a future upgrade for the Gen4 guys replacing the ported Gen4 option, trust me it was a Gen4 engine with the Paxton, I know the guy that owns it... His Gen5 motor is not there yet ;-)

 

[Jack B]

Why would it be held for Winkles - an Arrow customer??

Even if it would have had the GenV intake, there are rumors that it will be an option for a future upgrade for the Gen4 guys replacing the ported Gen4 option, trust me it was a Gen4 engine with the Paxton, I know the guy that owns it... His Gen5 motor is not there yet ;-)

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Since it was left out for all to see I would not put it past the funny guys at Arrow to do it to "tease" any prying eyes LOL.

Why would it be held for Winkles - an Arrow customer??