Getting a GTS to Gen IV Power

[whitebluevipe]

so wouldn't this mopar package also fit a gen 1? maybe a little modification?

 

[RTIO]

What cam did you use . Can you send me the specs

 

[Lawrenzo]

Sounds like a great N/A option. Keep us updated.

 

[WDW MKR]

If it comes out at the estimated price, I will purchase. Less would be even better!

 

[ViperTony]

If this alleged Mopar kit for the GenII does make 598hp just with heads and intake (no cam, no headers, no rockers) that would be impressive.

 

[banton]

To get to 600whp NA you will need to be really lucky or have a "friendly" dyno. GG did my heads and planed them to give me 10.5:1 compression (Great Heads btw - they flowed 326 cfm on his bench). I used the Comp Cams camshaft that Greg typically recommends, 1.7 RR, ported intake, smooth tubes, K&N, Belangers headers, HF cats, cat back, SCT tune from DC performance for 93 octane. Bottom line is 540whp 575 ft. lbs. on my dyno. I may be able to pick up a few more HP by eliminating the HF cats, but hitting 600 is tough. I have heard of one or two people who have hit 600whp with those mods. I know a lot more who are around the 550 mark with those mods.

Just a note on the gen IV package that was mentioned. If it dynos 598 hp at the flywheel, that translates to 500-525 whp if you assume 12-15% drivetrain loss. Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

That is interesting, Tagoo. I do agree the car, conditions and dyno can all effect the final numbers, but the 540rwhp sounds low compared to some other guys I know that have a similar package. On a Mustang dyno and VECII mine hit 592rwhp, but the stock fuel system stopped us from going for 600rwhp. I moved to an emissions state, sent the car back to the shop to have some hi-flo cats put on and redyno'd on the same dyno and I lost 23 rwhp up top, but gained a similar amount in the mid-range. So you may gain more than a few rwhp on the top end by removing the cats. The cats had more of an impact on the seats of the pants feel than I expected too. Btw my 97 still has a completely stock intake manifold, fuel and throttle bodies.

When I originally did the heads/cam build my hope was 550rwhp/550rwtq. When the shop called after the first full pull and before starting to adjust timing, they didn't know what to expect themselves, so they were just as surpised when we were already over 550rwhp. For reference, the car they were tuning just prior was a 71mm 6-speed supra they built and on 93 pump, it didn't even hit 500rwhp on the dyno, so I assumed the dyno wasn't all that "friendly" either.

 

[Tagoo]

Thanks for the input, Banton. I've often wondered how much difference the HF cats reduce power. I may try going catless if i can come up with a decent way to control the sound. I may pull my valve covers and check my rocker preload again... I may have been too conservative initially. BTW, my trap speeds are right around 128-129 mph in the quarter. I've thought those were reasonable for a 540whp viper. Any thoughts on whp vs. trap speeds for our cars. I agree that it doesn't sound like you have a friendly dyno based on the supra.

 

[Tagoo]

If this alleged Mopar kit for the GenII does make 598hp just with heads and intake (no cam, no headers, no rockers) that would be impressive.

This does sound like a simple alternative. I wonder what kind of Exhaust Manifolds are required. Gen 2 heads have a "D" shaped exhaust port. I thought the Gen "4" heads have a different shaped exhaust port. If that's correct (not certain that it is), that means we would need to use Gen 4 exhaust manifold (or aftermarket headers for a Gen 4). Would such Gen 4 exhaust manifold/headers fit around the Gen 2 body/frame? Or, would custom fabbed headers be required?

 

[Knight Viper]

Had the same header question myself..Gen II, III set ups are different. Great sounding package though, can't wait to hear more about it.

Why are you against Nos or FI? Easy way to add power to your motor and that's what you're looking for. Unless you are tracking the car it a great, affordable, available and resealable option until what you want is on the market.

 

[72hemi]

The kits will not have exhaust manifolds/headers because Mopar wants to leave this option up to the buyer. They figure that some will just use stock gen 4 manifolds while others will want to add headers at the same time. This way by leaving manifolds/headers out of the package it allows more flexibility for the consumer.

 

[Tagoo]

The kits will not have exhaust manifolds/headers because Mopar wants to leave this option up to the buyer. They figure that some will just use stock gen 4 manifolds while others will want to add headers at the same time. This way by leaving manifolds/headers out of the package it allows more flexibility for the consumer.

I understant that exhaust manifolds won't come with the package. I was wondering if gen 4 headers or exhaust manifolds will fit around the gen 2 frame and align with the opening into the Gen 2 side sills.

 

[WDW MKR]

Anyone heard anything more on this?

 

[jav8or]

This is BADASS. My friend was just asking me if anyone had ever done a GENIV engine swap to a GEN II. This is almost as good. If this thing ever comes out, I will definitely be a buyer!

 

[anton28]

I understant that exhaust manifolds won't come with the package. I was wondering if gen 4 headers or exhaust manifolds will fit around the gen 2 frame and align with the opening into the Gen 2 side sills.

I was just thinking the same thing. If I can't reuse my current gen2 ballenger headers and have to purchase a set of gen 4s, assuming they will fit, thats at least an extra 2k on top of the 6500k estimated price.

 

[Camfab]

Even if you had to spend 2K for a new exhaust it's still a bargain. It's always been cheaper to supercharge a Viper than go N/A. You can add another $1,500 for the cam and associated parts to go with it as well. I spent 10K plus on my Striker package and did every possible thing myself including all the exhaust mod work etc. The only thing I didn't do was the tune. I made great power, but that package didn't include a new intake, injectors , fuel rails and tons of other parts. Unfortunately Mopar is about 5 yrs too late with this package, I guess timing is everything.

 

[Viperarri]

Hi everyone. Really stupid question here, but would I be able to incorporate this into my 2000 rt/10 which is already ROE blown @ 5 lbs and what would it do for me, or is this kit only going to improve HP numbers on normally aspirated Vipers. Love reading all of this, just don't understand too much of it. Thanks

 

[WDW MKR]

Anyone hear anything on this package?

 

[Viper98912]

Yes, this is interesting hadn't heard of it

 

[wellis77]

I'm curious as well. Need to know if this is legit or if I should plan for a set of GG heads and cam...

 

[chopperpilot]

Thanks guys. When I was referring to 600hp like the Gen IV I was meaning crankshaft HP not RWHP. Whats a Gen IV stock RWHP?

Don't know what a stock Gen IV puts down but with my heads reworked by Bischoff Racing Engines, a 708 cam, slow bleed lifters, 1.7 Harland Sharp RR, and a SCT tune by Pickups Plus Cars my 2001 has 550 RWHP which would be about 640 at the crank. I'm running the factory exhaust manifolds, HF cats, 3" Corsa Track exhaust, and a conservative tune.

 

[Camfab]

Don't know what a stock Gen IV puts down but with my heads reworked by Bischoff Racing Engines, a 708 cam, slow bleed lifters, 1.7 Harland Sharp RR, and a SCT tune by Pickups Plus Cars my 2001 has 550 RWHP which would be about 640 at the crank. I'm running the factory exhaust manifolds, HF cats, 3" Corsa Track exhaust, and a conservative tune.

That sounds like a record, never heard of numbers like that with stock ported heads a 708 cam, much less factory manifolds.

 

[ElevatortecGTS]

Any updates on the Gen 4 head to the Gen 2 package yet? its now Oct , would enjoy a spring upgrade

 

[Jeebs]

I would also love some solid info on this kit if it is going to be coming to the market. I diffenently think there is a demand for it. There are alot of GenII owners that would like to get their hp numbers up. And I am one of them.

 

[evil00017]

Yea I am also curious. Also is there any word if this package would be CARB legal?

 

[Darth Menace]

Don't quote me, but I think a while ago I read something about this package being completed and dyno'd and only something like a F0hp(tq gain. Am I out to lunch on this? After reading that I lost interest in the package

 

[fe4snake]

What someone needs to do is put together a package similar to the ORECA GTSR vipers. Those tings made 700 hp to 800 hp.

 

[GTLaser]

I would like to hear about this package as well, I am in the market for some new heads and cams very soon.

 

[Darth Menace]

Don't quote me, but I think a while ago I read something about this package being completed and dyno'd and only something like a F0hp(tq gain. Am I out to lunch on this? After reading that I lost interest in the package

sorry........when I typed f0 I meant to type 60. If memory serves me right it was a 60/70 hp gain and nothing close to the advertized gain

 

[REDSLED]

A normal stage 3 Head package with RRs and full exhaust will get you 530-550 RWHP. Have seen numbers higher but with more agressive tunes. A local GTS race car is at 607 RWHP, but he is running the JM Striker heads. There will be variances in the RWHP gains due to tuning and dyno specs. When having 500+ RWHP on tap the limiting factor is the tires. Getting them to hook up in order to utilize the extra TQ and RWHP is a required skill. My heads and cam package on my GTS race car was near $4K IIRC and that was in 2005. The car already had RRs and a full race exhaust. I was at 556 RWHP and 589 RWTQ IIRC. Good luck.

 

[ElevatortecGTS]

From what I have been told the gen 4 head in stock forum out flows any ported gen 2 factory head.. Viper Speciality has a conversion package rated at approx 700hp depending on upgrades. Your new Gen2 motor should be very close to a gen 4 in HP but just down a little on hp due to cube inch difference