GM/Chrysler Merger Update

[Coloviper]

Good thing my other car is a Ford! Ha! Ha!

Seriously, the best (subjective in terms of style, production #s and profitability) of each will what they will go with. Some models will die and others will evolve.

What people don't understand is that just like a sale of the Viper will allow it to live on in a form, so will the merger allow. Without it, these companies will be gone and so will their models. You ahve to break a few eggs to make an omlette and an omlette is better than a plate with no food.

She will be what she will be. The best of each will remain. Branders can not argue with that. Both (Ford too) have made some real losers over the years. All I can say is that if anyone from the Aztek design team is still there, they should be the first to go. That was the ugliest thing I have ever seen.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

GM is REALLY trying to cut costs lately, look at their latest wheel option for the Hummer H3

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[kennyhemi]

There still hope it won't happen! Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Latest news!

Merger on hold! Feds not backing play, investors backing offOctober 31st, 2008 by Bill Cawthon
Plans for an Election Day merger agreement between General Motors and Chrysler hit a snag Thursday when the Bush administration ruled out funding for it. Without the federal funding, the private investors with whom the automakers had been talking are not interested in the deal.

Citing three people with direct knowledge of the talks, Reuters reports this essentially puts any possible tie-up between the two automakers on the back burner until after the election and possibly until the new Administration and Congress take office in January.

The latest twist in the saga of the U.S. auto industry’s implosion makes the future even more uncertain as GM, Ford and Chrysler, cut off from affordable credit, burn through precious cash. However, it does re-open the door for Cerberus to discuss a possible partnership with the Renault-Nissan alliance, an arrangement that makes more sense if the Auburn Hills car company is to remain in business. One of the Reuters’ sources said Cerberus had viewed the French-Japanese partnership as a backup plan if the merger efforts failed. While a tie-up with Renault-Nissan would reinforce existing production agreements, it would be unlikely to bring any fresh cash to Chrysler’s coffers. Carlos Ghosn, CEO of both Renault and Nissan has said his companies would not be willing to deplete their cash reserves in any merger or acquisition.

GM and Cerberus declined comment. Chrysler said it was pushing ahead with its own restructuring plans while it works on developing new vehicles, including a plug-in hybrid. The company has already announced it will cut its salaried headcount by 25 percent.

Chrysler spokeswoman Lori McTavish said, “We are taking the tough but necessary decisions to stabilize the business in the short-term and making the viable long-term business decisions to restructure the company

 

[RTTTTed]

And now that fuel prices are more reasonable maybe our problems are over temporarily? The government should set the fuel prices so that they don't triple becaues of'speculators' and baby Hurricanes. Imagine the economy with $1.00/gl fuel ... the way it should be.

Yah, North America's economy has a chance again. Dump the 'cross-border' BS and we should slap out gov. asses for doing trade wars against each other in the first place. Retards!

China will take over - forget the ***, Korean and others. China has no emmissions and not very much taxes. Workers cost a few dimes not tens of dollars. In our Global economy we're going to lose half our eceonomy to the Chinese?

They build and sell new cars for under $5,000. It's cheap to ship those cars anywhere in the world from China. What we pay for 1 Viper from Detroit would probably ship 45 Chinese cars to here.

Politicians - FIX THIS!!!

Why is so much of our money in Dubai? Our (Canadian) governement collects a lot more money than the arabs, where's our DUBAI? What did those Politicians do with all our gas/tax money???

TED

 

[Coloviper]

If BC would get off it's but and kick the commies and tree huggers out of office, you might be able to see that the rest of Canada is not that bad off. Even Sask. is coming around. From highest to lowest tax in a few years.

My suggestion is to move. BC has always been a whiney province.

Fuel prices should stay somewhere around $3.00 per gallon. Anything lower and it doesn't make sense. They were artifically low for too many years prior. People have adjusted to high gas prices already. the problems are not cost of gas. Coist of health care and unions are the issues to fix. Oh and that war thing.

 

[Alexarz]

This problem would never exist if so many american jerkoffs didn't buy imported cars. There isn't any reason to buy foreign cars; domestic cars are just fine. Do you have any idea how much it would help our economy if we stopped being so stupid and bought domestic cars almost exclusively? Chrysler has some awesome cars and so does GM.

I have a clear conscience because I only buy american cars. If some of you are ********** that the Viper and Chrysler might be dying, just look around at all the traitors driving *** cars. Anybody who owns a *** car is responsible for the american auto workers being laid off. We americans need to wake the f#ck up.

 

[RTTTTed]

If BC would get off it's but and kick the commies and tree huggers out of office, you might be able to see that the rest of Canada is not that bad off. Even Sask. is coming around. From highest to lowest tax in a few years.

My suggestion is to move. BC has always been a whiney province.

Fuel prices should stay somewhere around $3.00 per gallon. Anything lower and it doesn't make sense. They were artifically low for too many years prior. People have adjusted to high gas prices already. the problems are not cost of gas. Coist of health care and unions are the issues to fix. Oh and that war thing.

Kick the commies and tree huggers out of office? LMAO. 51% of our population has become non-white. East Indian and Oriental. Not sure which are commies. Tree huggers are mostly low intelligence and live in city cores. Homeless and beggars?

You're probably paying $3.00/gl because of Cda's extra taxes. East and south many places are $1.97/gl. Pacific Northwest is $3.+ I'd prefer to fire all teh gov and hire someone that wants to improve out standard of living instead of their own. Paying 50% "Green" Taxes on my gas is a rip=off. The Greens say, take a bus, but I have to drive 200miles just to see a bus. That's low IQ.

Think I'll look into running for gov. Extreme low hours with 6 figure salary and $20K living expences. One of the best pensions in the world. After I make my forst couple million I'll be happy to pay gas taxes?

The Liberal Party HAS to lose this election. Like cretin they're adding new taxes so fast that it's impossible to keep track of them all. But the Premier was on TV yapping about lowering taxes. Hypocrits

Ted



Ted

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Most of the cars and parts of foreign cars are more built in America
than the big three.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Most of the cars and parts of foreign cars are more built in America
than the big three.

That is what Toyota tells you. It is not the truth. The vast majority of their US provided parts come from Japanese based transplants who ship the main parts here from Japan. They work hard to make the minimums to be considered US built, preferring the maximum in yen back home. And once they have defeated the US auto industry watch and see how the transplants revert to shipping from Japan, as there will no longer be an advantage to keep up the farse.

Anyone who thinks for a second that Japanese companies are here for anything more than to maximize profits for Japan is kidding themselves.

 

[Art 138]

GR8 ASP is right, Toyota and Honda "assemble" cars in the U.S and many of us think they are produced here. Most of the telematics to include engines come from abroad. There are some token parts produced here to get lower tariffs (Tundra). Also they are non-unionized and their gross margins are incredible. I had the opportunity to tour one of their plants and their supply chain is very sophisticated sourcing parts bins from the Maquiladors along the Mexican/US border and other parts of the world.

 

[Nine Ball]

This problem would never exist if so many american jerkoffs didn't buy imported cars. There isn't any reason to buy foreign cars; domestic cars are just fine. Do you have any idea how much it would help our economy if we stopped being so stupid and bought domestic cars almost exclusively? Chrysler has some awesome cars and so does GM.

I have a clear conscience because I only buy american cars. If some of you are ********** that the Viper and Chrysler might be dying, just look around at all the traitors driving *** cars. Anybody who owns a *** car is responsible for the american auto workers being laid off. We americans need to wake the f#ck up.

I agree about not buying imported cars. If an American car fits my criteria, I purchase them first. Currently I own 10 American vehicles and no imports. I've only bought one new import in my life, mostly because it was a cheap commuter car to be abused in a college parking lot.

There are far more reasons that the US Auto industry is in turmoil though. It isn't as simple as import vs domestic buying. It also has to do with poor business decisions and planning, redundant expenses related to badge engineering, not making cuts early enough on certain brands and model lines, and a greedy USAW labor union that bleeds the manufacturing plants dry.

 

[carmined]

it's a damn shame gm will kill the viper -they dont want any comp. for the vet. this way they dont have to keep spending money to keep up with our superior viper! look what they did to just match the current 2008 viper supercharged their inferior vet. (zr1) it's also really sad because the viper is selling! almost 50% to 80% sales increase for 2008! the viper kicked the vet's ass from 1992 to 2005 then gm came out with the z06 which just matched the viper. then dodge fired back with the current model that kicked the vet's ass again. then gm comes back with this $100,000.00+ zr1-vet just to match the viper again. but they cant! park a viper next to a vet anytime and see which one draws the biggest crowd! most people dont even look twice at a vet, but i can drive my 1993 black rt\10 and people make me feel like a movie star! i park next to vet's at autoshows around detroit mi. and always steal their crowd! if they had one! my generation 1 1993 15 year old viper is worth more than a 2007 used vet! that should tell you something! gm hates the viper and that's sad because bob lutz was the father of our car. now he's the enemy! but then again he probably has no say! gm has always sucked! to many chiefs and not enough indians, look for gm to can the new challenger which is also superior in performance and looks to the new camaro, they would in not continue to make it to much comp. for the camaro, again it's just sad,sad,sad, lee made a big mistake promoting eaton over lutz.eaton sold us down the river to that german co. and the 15 billion chryco had at the time. look what happened to quality under the germans! chryco was ahead of benz. in quality at the time of the merger and had more of a portfolio of cars and good solid interior materials. in 2006 my wife bought a 300c and you should see the cheap plastic in the car we paid $38000.00 for! we didnt notice it till we got the car and started to notice how easy the plastic scratches and flimsy it is. this was the result of the germans dictating that chryco go with the lowest bidder. while they put top quality interior materials in their cars. gm will kill chryco. for what? a few market share points by keeping the minivans and jeep. you think gm will keep the superior new ram? thats too much comp. for the chevy and gmc trucks! if anything they need to get rid of pontiac and gmc. and keep chrysler dodge and jeep but they dont want another superior car the 300c which blows the doors off most caddy's and looks better also. i see chryco for 2008 upgraded the interior! in the 300c great! it was needed! but again gm will kill our company! for the 11 billion chryco has. whats the logic in assuming ever chryco car buyer will buy a gm car after they kill chryco? i bet they will lose half the minivan sales chryco currently has, after this takeover to honda and toyota, as a lot of people dont like gm products. me included! remember they couldn't make a decent minivan the entire time they tried! cerberus ***** too! what liars!!!!! just 2 months ago nardelli said they cerberus was backing chryco for the long haul what bull****! he probably was lied to also! cerberus does not give a damn! about detroit or peoples lives. chryco could make it on their own if given the proper time and proper people running it not home depot reject -nardelli lasorda has been reduced to a figurehead they bring him out to lie to us! you know he was pissed when they brought in nardelli and jim press and put them over him! now he's just playing good boy! all of us viper guys need to stick together as our parts could dry up! and support from chryco will be gone! you think gm will support viper nation? i would love to see roger penski buy viper he would be great! and all these people bashing the union did the union choose the leaders of chryco? did the union choose the cheap quality parts suppliers? did the union merg chryco with the germans? the union even gave health concessions with veba, did the union cut cars and lose market share instead of improving the pacifica, magnum, crossfire, the magnum was still selling about 30,000 units a year when they got rid of it, those people wanting a wagon just went to another company! again lost market share the magnum was made on the same line as the 300\charger so they could of easily just cut production of it to just 30,000 and kept the customers for it! you dont improve a company by getting rid of cars you improve what you offer! starting with quality!!!! and design, the pacifica was way to fat looking, the caliber looks like that old voltswagon from the 70's a far cry from the neon which had been improved and had was rebounding. another victim of the germans bad decisions. they got rid of their full size vans dodge had a 15% share of the full size van market till damler killed it! and tried to sell you a rebadged sprinter instead what a joke! they lost that market share! plymouth was just missed managed to nothing! they lost the voyager mini and the customers went to honda \toyota \and others for a low cost minivan customers did not buy the other chryco vans as damler thought they would. chryco went from 15% to 11.5% market share as the result of mismanagement did the union decide to make the new sebring \ avenger? which seems like a design by commitee, did the union make the decission to call a chryco suv the aspen which was a joke of a car! who designed that thing? the aspen should of had drop dead gorgeous looks, i could go on and on, i'm now not in the union anymore, and yes the union is forced to represent the few slackers, but most of the people i worked with came in on time, and did their job! the union didn't fail chryco the idiots and bean counters did, just like bean counters will kill our viper! keep your cars viper owners they are one of a kind!!!! nothing like them exist!!!! and they will be worth alot in the future!!! crying for chryco-jerry p

You should break this into paragraphs, tough read on a computer.

 

[carmined]

This problem would never exist if so many american jerkoffs didn't buy imported cars. There isn't any reason to buy foreign cars; domestic cars are just fine. Do you have any idea how much it would help our economy if we stopped being so stupid and bought domestic cars almost exclusively? Chrysler has some awesome cars and so does GM.

I have a clear conscience because I only buy american cars. If some of you are ********** that the Viper and Chrysler might be dying, just look around at all the traitors driving *** cars. Anybody who owns a *** car is responsible for the american auto workers being laid off. We americans need to wake the f#ck up.

I couldn't agree more, I have a Viper, Vette, Expedtion, Trans AM. My brother in law, who is an Audi nut, keeps asking me when I am going to buy a nice foreign car. I say never as long as americans keep making them. People are so eager to sell this country down the river.

I can understand that in the 70's and 80's when the big three were making absolute junk. I think the quality and performance has improved remarkably since those times.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

see below...

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

The American-Made Index

Rank
Make/Model
U.S. Assembly Location(s)

1.
Ford F-150*
Claycomo, Mo.; Dearborn, Mich.

2.
Chevrolet Cobalt
Lordstown, Ohio

3.
Chevrolet Malibu**
Kansas City, Kan.

4.
Pontiac G6
Orion, Mich.

5.
Toyota Tundra
Princeton, Ind.; San Antonio

6.
Toyota Sienna
Princeton, Ind.

7.
Honda Odyssey
Lincoln, Ala.
--
8.
Chevrolet Silverado 1500*
Fort Wayne, Ind.; Pontiac, Mich.

9.
Chrysler Sebring
Sterling Heights, Mich.
--
10.
Ford Explorer/Sport Trac
Louisville, Ky.

*Rankings based on estimated sales breakouts and/or production data
**Excludes hybrid.
Sources: Automaker data, Automotive News
​

About the American-Made Index:

The American-Made Index is a semiannual ranking of vehicles deemed most American based on American production, percentage of domestic parts and American sales volume.

Domestic-parts content is based on data that appears alongside the window sticker of new cars as a result of the American Automobile Labeling Act, enacted in 1994. The AALA mandates that virtually every new car display the percentage, by cost, of its parts that originated in the U.S. and Canada. Only those vehicles with a domestic-parts content rating of 75 percent or higher are eligible for the American-Made Index.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Did you read what I stated. Toyota and the other Japanese companies maximize the use of the government regulated method for stating what is US content. Using that same list as proof is ridiculous. The industry knows where things are made. Where is the cylinder block for the Toyota cast. Where is it machined. Same for the heads, crankshaft, etc. They appear to be US because that is what they want the label to state (so they can fool people like you).

If you want more evidence try to locate all the Toyota owned manufacturing facilities that support the vehicle assembly. That is the engine, transmissions, axle and other major components. The US is littered with these facilities from the US based automotive companies. I like the "trick" that Toyota uses for transmissions. They are manufactured by Aisin in Japan. But they come through Plymouth Michigan and thus are considered FOB Michigan. The only American content is the shipping and holding area. But they count as American as that is where they are shipped from.

So if you want some facts start by disassembling that Toyota and look at each individual part. You will find very few, and generally the ones with the lowest value added, being from the US. Parts that are high in material cost and low in value added are localized. Why you say. Because their industry pays homage to the Japanese economy and wants to maintain job creation there.

Further you may state that Toyota has lots of jobs here in the US (but far fewer on a percentage basis than the US based). That is true, on the face of it. But, like the material elements, they tend to be the low paying labor jobs while the higher paying jobs are in Japan. Higher paying jobs here tend to be Japanese here on an expatriot assignment. My former boss is a Toyota employee and has hit the glass ceiling there. The Japanese are one of the most passionate, racially centric people on the planet. And if you think they do one single thing to help another nation over their own you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

I beg to differ.....

 

[viperbilliam]

Some of you have oversimplified views of the world! Commies, tree-huggers, $1/gal, only buy American?! There's some good points about buying American but most importantly, to each their own - choice is good. Competition improves the breed; I don't think American cars would be as good as they are now if it weren't for the Japanese competition who applied American principles better than we did! I had a Porsche fan tell me my American loyalty is admirable but undeserved quite a few years ago. Some still might say that but CARMINED has a good point about reputation. I do believe the largest blame goes to the horribly overpaid high-level management of the domestic companies. Remember Roger what's his last name who ran GM in the eighties?

 

[GR8_ASP]

I beg to differ.....

That is why the US is going down the tubes. Listening to propaganda and believing it to be the truth.

I personally have witnessed teardowns of all makes and models of cars. The Japanese are far and away the most national (theirs) centric cars on earth. I have also been to many of their suppliers. Almost all Japanese citizen management. Most with the majority of value added content coming from Japan. Those are first hand accounts. Take your Toyota propoganda to the bank. You may need to some day.

 

[GRNBGON]

GR8_ASP
You are right on the money on this one. When it finally hits the pocket books of the people how disagree, then they will see their mistaken ideology. By then it will probably be too late and they will be out a job, if they even have one. TS for them. Just my 2cents, that is if I even have that much after this downturn.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Should you find fault with me or should I feel less American than you because my daily driver is a Lexus LS460L?

BTW-I was born and raised in Detroit.

 

[GRNBGON]

Should you find fault with me or should I feel less American than you because my daily driver is a Lexus LS460L?

BTW-I was born and raised in Detroit.

Search your American Detroit Auto Industry soul and you know the answer to your own question.

Thanks for your support!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Should you find fault with me or should I feel less American than you because my daily driver is a Lexus LS460L?

BTW-I was born and raised in Detroit.

Maybe when homes come pre fabricated from China, Japan or other foriegn countries you will have something more close to home.

As far as if you should feel guilty. No. But then again, on an individual basis, no one makes an impact. Collectively we do. You can choose to do things that support our country or do things that support other countries. Your choice. But when no one has the money to buy your homes don't look elsewhere for an answer.

 

[Bobpantax]

Profit has no nationality. Global, multinational corporations only care about the flag to the extent they need to appear to wave it in the respective markets within which they participate. I think that this is one of GR8 ASP's points. Money will go to cheap, reliable, competent labor wherever it is located as long as the law permits the money to go there and return from there in a financially efficient environment for taxes, customs and duties, and shipping costs.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

ACSI - Scores By Industry Popup

 

[carmined]

Profit has no nationality. Global, multinational corporations only care about the flag to the extent they need to appear to wave it in the respective markets within which they participate. I think that this is one of GR8 ASP's points. Money will go to cheap, reliable, competent labor wherever it is located as long as the law permits the money to go there and return from there in a financially efficient environment for taxes, customs and duties, and shipping costs.

All things follow the point of least resistance. You are only as good as the lowest paid person who can do your job. The unions will realize this when the jobs are gone, no matter what terrorist tactics they use.

 

[carmined]

Oh, by the way, vote for Obama to finish off America. Guess free speech isn't allowed in the viper forums. A fairly mild point I made against him seems to have been erased. Guess they are drinking the kool-aid for him here as well. Are the major networks running this site?

 

[Coloviper]

Actually Commies and Tree-Huggers, I was referring to the BC Government in Canada. Really, it is pretty close.

I was strictly a North American and Ford man my whole life. Had the same narrow viewpoints of foreign cars as some here. UNTIL I bought my first Porsche Cayenne Turbo (used). Whata ride! Happily turned over my Jeep SRT8 keys on trade. Then again it is not a fair comparison as vastly different models. Opened up my mind though enough to buy a second Cayenne Turbo S for myself and hand down the first Cayenne Turbo to my wife! Quite simply there is no other vehicle in America that even comparies to this for daily driving SUV.

Thought maybe there is more to this Foreign vehicle thing than meets the eye, so I took out a new Porsche 911 GT3. Absolutely hated it and thought it was cheap. Took out a Boxster and it confirmed the cheapness to me further. Closed my mind back to thinking the Cayenne Turbo was a one off.

I was home with my Dad's construction company a few months ago and my Dad is the biggest Big 3 guy out there. At least 4 or 5 new work trucks a year for his company. He had a brand new Toyota truck in the driveway. The new full size crew cab one. I really started to raze him about it and kept asking why did you do this, why? He wouldn't tell me but took it down a pretty rough gravel road and it was smooth and the quietest vehilce I had ever been in. You could not hear a single stone hit the inner fenders. Then we came back in one of his Dodge MegaCabs and drove the same road. Stones flying of everything and rough. Now I know why. Opened my mind a lot more.

I will not say that every foreign vehicle is better beucase they are not, but some are clearly way ahead of the big three equivalents. In a way, you feel very cheated after. The Big three should be miles ahead on quality and engineering, but the fricken' unions have all about killed it.

Now I love Torque so my sports cars need to be traditional American Muscle, like Vipers, Shelbys Saleens, Corvettes, Ford GT, etc. That is what I personally like and prefer. Maybe a Ferrari is better quality, but I like my torque and the Foreign cars just don't have it, thus I will always buy big three or two for my sports cars. However for daily driving I like to keep my kidneys staionary, thus I like a nice quiet ride with no rattles, squeeks, etc. The big three are way behind in this category if you ask me. Yes they are okay, but not built to last. I can jump into my Uncle's 10 year old, 100,000+ mile Lexus and there is not a rattle or squeek. For that I applaud. NO Big three vehicle I have ever owned can attest to that.

I am North American proud of all we have and produce. I would buy big three for daily vehicles first without hesitation, but after experiencing a few pretty good foreign cars,. North America needs to pick up the pace of some of the vehicles. Some are perfect the way they are. Some are POS.

Viper is as American as it can get. No other country could have the balls to produce it in raw form. For that we should be proud. However I have no shame in jumping into my Cayenne to drive home from the track. If any of the big three produced anything close, I would own it, but they don't.

 

[VIPER 93]

Oh, by the way, vote for Obama to finish off America. Guess free speech isn't allowed in the viper forums. A fairly mild point I made against him seems to have been erased. Guess they are drinking the kool-aid for him here as well. Are the major networks running this site?

"finish off America"---- bush took care of that

 

[ViperTony]

I am North American proud of all we have and produce. I would buy big three for daily vehicles first without hesitation, but after experiencing a few pretty good foreign cars,. North America needs to pick up the pace of some of the vehicles. Some are perfect the way they are. Some are POS.

North America MUST pick up the pace with our vehicles. The last daily driver I purchased was in 2001 and its a BMW 530i. At that time, I couldn't find anything comparable to it regarding US autos and I remember being VERY disappointed about that fact. Today, I would not hesitate to purchase a Dodge Charger for my daily driver. I wish it existed in 2001. This will be my next purchase soon.