Harmonic Balancer Bolt Loosened

[04 SRT10 Owner]

Yesterday my life flashed before my eyes. Just a little background, my car was recently recalled for the cam bolt issue and completed without evidence of a loose bolt about 3 weeks ago. Last week I began hearing a faint squeeking sound near the fan belt only on start-up and it would disappear as car warmed up. Let me also tell you that I'm a complete ignoramus regarding mechanics. However I had the good sense to call Dan Lesser aka Final GTS. He told me not to drive the car and he came over to my house. To our utter amazement Dan was able to take off the harmonic balancer bolt with his fricken hands, that's how loose it was. One ride down the road and my car could have been history. Dan put some locktite on the bolt and tightened with 130 lb torque. The balancer was not loose prior to being tightened. Dan was in the dealership when the cam bolt was inspected and saw the tech torque that harminic balancer bolt back on.
Is there anybody out there who's experienced the same? Maybe Dodge should recall for inspections if this this is not an isolated problem.What I can't understand is why there is not a lock on this bolt? I'd appreciate hearing from the more learned Viper folks about this issue and would appreciate any advise.

 

[kmg99]

Check out my thread on the recall. On my car, we found both the damper and belt tensioner fasteners loose. I recommend that all FEAD fasteners be checked on 2004 vehicles.

 

[Gary C (GaryCSilver04)]

So let me get this straight... Your friend Dan saw the HB bolt be tightened at the dealer and weeks later the same bolt is loose???

 

[Skip White]

You must have missed the post on this subject last week. MY car was the same way,completly loose, and yes my car did have a sqeaking noise in the front, and I thought it was an idler pulley.

There is some confusion as to how tight the big center bolt goes. I spoke to my uncle, and he said 250 lbs. is way to tight. He said around 80-120 he has been building racing engines for 40 years of all sizes, street and track. I will call Dodge Monday and find this out. He did say to use locktight on it and you should not have any more problem. I think it will be a good idea to check this out regularly. It's no trouble to get to, and if you really want great access to it, just remove the airbox, this car is a dream to work on the front of the engine.

OH one more thing, put the car in gear, and apply the brake or you will just be turning over the engine.

Skip White

 

[04 SRT10 Owner]

Gary,
That's correct, which to me is even more frightening that this bolt could come loose after being tightened 3 weeks ago. The car was driven to Tator's event and back about 800 miles round trip and then locally.

 

[Gary C (GaryCSilver04)]

From my worldly experiances only a bolt not torqued to specs will loosen or if the bolt is of a certain stainless grade...

Maybe the torque wrench was out of spec,,, seen it before..... STILL VERY SCARY

 

[Rich Carlson]

The vibration damper is not keyed to the crankshaft. That is why the torque spec is 250 ft. lbs. This spec has been used since 1992. Save your call.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Note that 2003 and 2004 have a different damper screw and torque. The 250 ft-lb spec is for 2003 only. The 2004 is 130 ft-lbs. Tighten the 2004 to 250 and surely you will have 2 screw halves and a mess on your hands.

 

[Skip White]

WOW! we really need to find out the correct specs. The diff. between 130 and 250 is great. What Ron say's makes sense, and if these were in fact tightend to 130 and still have came loose, they will uping the spec. a bit, or they may not have used locktight.

For now lets keep an eye on the bolt. After several checks, if it's keeping tight, we can let our guard down.

I'ts good that many are sharing there input on this very important subject, and if Ron is correct, then we really need to make sure the dealer is aware of the 04 change.

Skip

 

[SRT10]

Ron is correct.
These are the torque specs for the 03 SRT right from the service manual.

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Crankshaft Dampner is 250' lbs. I don't believe the 03s have had an issue with loose bolts.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hello everyone,

Yes, scary indeed. No joke, I did take the fricken thing off with my fingers.

Ron and I had this discussion in another thread about the torque specs. 2003 is indeed 250, and 2004 if 130. However, the Tq spec not only changed, so did the bolt. The new style is a 13/16" bolt, (opposed to the 1-1/4" last year) and is borrowed from the new Hemi engine.

Though this isnt the first time I have heard of this exact problem, (See Viper D's recent posts), I do believe I may have some reasoning for this occurance;

When the harmonic balancer is removed and then replaced for the cam bolt recall, it does not seat 100% upon the first torquing. As the engine heat cycles, it will eventually work its way loose. (metal expands and pushes the balancer a little further on- then when it cools, it is already looser) This problem coupled with the frequent occurance of out-of-spec Tq wrenches that techs use, or the lack thereof, compounds the problem. The original Tq spec of 250 Ft Lbs however, is tight enough to overcome this problem (as well as overcome just about any problem anyone could ever have with a bolt...LOL)

In my opinion, the solution to this problem is to install the balancer the first time in the normal fashion, and then schedual an appointment for about (5) heat-cycles later for a loctite and retorque. Loctite on the first appointment may not be neccesary, as it may pose more of a problem than it is worth come the second appointment.

 

[9 seconds]

Is that 13/16" and 1-1/4" bolts, or is that the wrench sizes you used to tighten them?

 

[Viper Specialty]

9-seconds,

that is wrench sizes. the 13/16 bolt is a 9/16 major diameter thread... I am not sure about the 1-1/4

 

[9 seconds]

I bet the 1-1/4 wrench fits a bolt that is close to 13/16. That's why I wanted to clear it up. Thanks.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I am not sure what you mean? the bolt heads are indeed either 1-1/4 or 13/16, from 2003/2004.

 

[Viper IV]

My thanks to this board, I checked my Harmonic balancer bolt on Saturday. My 04 SRT has 850 miles and the bolt was finger loose also. I pulled it out, put on the lock tight and drove it to the dealer for the cam bolt (and harmonic bolt) check.

 

[9 seconds]

I am not sure what you mean? the bolt heads are indeed either 1-1/4 or 13/16, from 2003/2004.

Ok. I wasn't very clear. Bolt size is not determined by the size wrench that fits it. You posted above that the bolt sizes were 1-1/4 and 13/16 and that's not correct. Your posts could be confusing because you have writen "bolt" size when you should have posted "wrench/socket" size.

 

[Viper Specialty]

9 seconds,

I am aware that bolt size is not determined by the head size, hence why I wrote "9/16 major diameter thread" on my first reply to you. while I should have wrote that it was indeed the socket size I was using, everyone would have figured out exactly what I meant when they went to check the bolt. I didnt post thread sizes because I only know the 13/16" heads' thread size... not the 1-1/4". didnt even think to add "head" after 13/16 in my first post when typing it...

 

[9 seconds]

Daniel relax. It's a common mistake.

 

[Viper Specialty]

9 seconds,

dont take it the wrong way, I am not upset that you pointed that out...

 

[newredrt10]

Has anyone checked to see if the bolts are bottoming out in the hole. If this is the case no matter how much torque is used it will not hold.

 

[04 SRT10 Owner]

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the comments and advice. The car was brought back to the dealership tonight and bolt/assembly will be pulled out and examined. My man Dan will be there to oversee the operation. We'll let you know the turnout.

 

[VIPER D]

Hey guys just a warning, I had a factory repurchase due to harmonic/crank dammage. Be there and look with your own eyes for dammage/scapes.


vd..

 

[Viper Specialty]

Viper D- Got it covered. I will be there tomorrow when it goes under the knife...(again)

I dont get it though... I save Chryslers A$$ on this one, and they still give me **** over a 37 cent dust boot on my steering rack. Next time maybe I wont play so nice!!! What goes around, comes around! (for reference, my car had a cracked dust boot on the input shaft of my steering rack, chrysler is trying to tell me "the only way they will warranty it is to replace the WHOLE rack" Are they ********? there is no way they are ripping apart my car for such a thing! the boot slides off the shaft- there is nothing WRONG with my RACK! swap the boots and keep the rack new you idiots!!!)

 

[VIPER D]

They want to make money on the labor that they will bill d/c.

Its all about money.


vd..

 

[Viper IV]

Still waiting for my car back, Dealer told me next week now.
No car for the holiday