Headers Vs. Headers "3 part Question"

[Shandon]

Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

I have been searching for some concrete thoughts on this issue. I am looking to replace the headers and go to R/T highflow cats. Im up in the air between the Belanger headers and the B&B ones. If there are better ones than these let me know. Anyway I would like to hear some real world results from anyone with either set on there Viper. I was at first timid about the car getting too loud when I had the Corsa system put on but now I'm wishing it was louder (no Im not going catless not that crazy YET). So I guess this thread is a three point question.
1. Which is better Belanger vs. B&B or other "Price isn't that much a concern"
2. How much louder are new headers with R/T Cats?
3. How much Power increase should I expect and where is it felt at "RPM"?

 

[MikeR]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Ive heard good things about Bellanger. Im probably going that route because my buddy said they are on the easier side for installing. And they are good quality. Another option is Kooks headers. My buddy went with Kooks and gained 25 rwhp and like 40rwtq. But they took him alot longer to put in. He had to lift motor and slide forward,then slide back for each side.

 

[FE 065]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

How about 23hp for about $200 using OE manifolds?

Worked for me..twice

 

[Shandon]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

ok what for $200 will give me 23HP? Im all ears? Still lets get back to the Header question please?

 

[FE 065]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

ok what for $200 will give me 23HP? Im all ears? Still lets get back to the Header question please?

Okay, buy the headers then..wouldn't want to distract you.

 

[Camfab]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

The best system in my opinion is the the Kooks system. It can be had with the flex connectors and high flow cats for $2,800 with a 3" or 2 1/2" cat outlet. It has merge collectors as does the B&B. The B&B is a stepped design which should yield slightly more power. For the money and the best layed out complete system the Kooks is a no brainer. If they made this system for the GTS, it would be on my car.

 

[Frank Parise]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Since your post is in the SRT forum, I assume you have an SRT 2003 or newer. The stock exhaust manifolds are very efficient and you should not expect a meaningful boost in power by going to headers. You'd get close to as much power boost by simply installing K$N air filters. By meaningful, I mean something that you would feel in the seat of your pants. Installing headers to make your car sound loud is senseless. All you need is cat back system for that.

If you have a GTS or R/T, I can vouch that Belanger headers would give you an enormous gain in both torque and horsepower to the rear wheels, easily 40-60 for each. This was verified by many dyno tests..see the archives. Lou Belanger, headquartered in Phoenix, is no "Johnny come lately". He has been producing great headers for Viper racers for over ten years. I've had them on both my GTS and my Competition Coupe. They are an awesome piece of work that produce real power only a racer can appreciate.

Billy Boat (the Indycar racer) produces the B&B. He's also headquartered in Phoenix. He came on the scene much later and a number of local Viper racers have bolted up his product. I understand it to be of fine quality but I know of no compelling reason to switch from Belanger. Mind you, I am only interested in performance.

I've never heard of Kooks, but the name is certainly interesting.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Since your post is in the SRT forum, I assume you have an SRT 2003 or newer. The stock exhaust manifolds are very efficient and you should not expect a meaningful boost in power by going to headers. You'd get close to as much power boost by simply installing K$N air filters. By meaningful, I mean something that you would feel in the seat of your pants. Installing headers to make your car sound loud is senseless. All you need is cat back system for that.

wrong

You must not travel far out of the Viper world, Kooks is pretty popular.

 

[Shandon]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Yea I have heard of the Kooks setup also. Those are some decent numbers from that Dyno! Bellanger has claims of 50hp I realize those are only claims (not sure what B&B says)but I want some real world proof from someone who has used them on an SRT?

 

[MikeR]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Since your post is in the SRT forum, I assume you have an SRT 2003 or newer. The stock exhaust manifolds are very efficient and you should not expect a meaningful boost in power by going to headers. You'd get close to as much power boost by simply installing K$N air filters. By meaningful, I mean something that you would feel in the seat of your pants. Installing headers to make your car sound loud is senseless. All you need is cat back system for that.

You obviously dont know much. Most people get between 20-30 RWHP on these cars with headers. More if you have a supercharger on stock car and then add headers. As ILLSMOQ's graph shows there is nice power to be had with JUST adding headers, especially in the mid range.

 

[Viper X]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Shandon,

There are pluses and minuses to both B & B's and Belangers but power output is very, very close. I have only recently read about Kooks and don't know how long they've been making headers for Vipers, but Belanger has been doing it longer than anyone else I know of.

Personally, I have B & B stepped headers and exhaust on my 2004 SRT. They made good power when the car was mostly stock. With K & N's and B & B headers, my car made 510 at the rear wheels. It made 450 bone stock, so there is some power to be had for sure with headers. The B & B's are stainless steel and therefore run a bunch hotter than the coated Belangers. This can be ******* wires, clutch fluid, slave cylinders, etc. If you buy the B & B's, you will want to be careful about insulating anything near them. I had mine coated before installing them and they still make a bunch of heat. They are also lounder and tend to produce "resonance" or drone, so after trying a bunch of muffler combinations, I went to their 3-inch cross over which is resonably quiet. I'd really like to get rid of the crossovers, but can't stand the drone without them.

I recently bought a VOI 9 Coupe and just ordered Belanger's for it. These headers are aluminized steel, coated inside and out and sound better with a side exhaust than the B & B's - no drone. Power is very close as stated above. One of my neighbors, who does some spirited driving with me from time to time, has an 03 SRT-10 with K & N's and Belangers. His car makes 508 rwhp. He has not had any issues with fried wires or slave cylinder failures.

Here's a big plus for Belanger. SRT, a fairly bright and talented group with considerble testing resources at their disposal, chose Belanger's headers for the 2008, 600 + hp Viper that raced the Viper jet at Luke Air Force Base a week or two ago. Don't know how you can get a better endorsement than that and the 2008 Viper beat the jet!

Good luck,

Dan

 

[rcl4668]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Shandon,

There are pluses and minuses to both B & B's and Belangers but power output is very, very close. I have only recently read about Kooks and don't know how long they've been making headers for Vipers, but Belanger has been doing it longer than anyone else I know of.

Personally, I have B & B stepped headers and exhaust on my 2004 SRT. They made good power when the car was mostly stock. With K & N's and B & B headers, my car made 510 at the rear wheels. It made 450 bone stock, so there is some power to be had for sure with headers. The B & B's are stainless steel and therefore run a bunch hotter than the coated Belangers. This can be ******* wires, clutch fluid, slave cylinders, etc. If you buy the B & B's, you will want to be careful about insulating anything near them. I had mine coated before installing them and they still make a bunch of heat. They are also lounder and tend to produce "resonance" or drone, so after trying a bunch of muffler combinations, I went to their 3-inch cross over which is resonably quiet. I'd really like to get rid of the crossovers, but can't stand the drone without them.

I recently bought a VOI 9 Coupe and just ordered Belanger's for it. These headers are aluminized steel, coated inside and out and sound better with a side exhaust than the B & B's - no drone. Power is very close as stated above. One of my neighbors, who does some spirited driving with me from time to time, has an 03 SRT-10 with K & N's and Belangers. His car makes 508 rwhp. He has not had any issues with fried wires or slave cylinder failures.

Here's a big plus for Belanger. SRT, a fairly bright and talented group with considerble testing resources at their disposal, chose Belanger's headers for the 2008, 600 + hp Viper that raced the Viper jet at Luke Air Force Base a week or two ago. Don't know how you can get a better endorsement than that and the 2008 Viper beat the jet!

Good luck,

Dan

Dan/ViperX --

Did the folks at SRT confirm the headers used at the Viper vs. Viper event were Bellanger headers? Did they mention if these will be the headers available from Mopar as a delaer-installed part (I believe the headers on the 675 hp Mopar car at the Detroit Auto show also had Bellanger headers.

/Rich

 

[Viper X]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Hey Rich,

Bellanger puts a tag on their headers that you can see when you open the hood. They likely do this so that you know that they are Bellangers, i.e. sales purposes.

I was at the Detroit Auto Show in January and the headers on the 675 hp SRT with the splitter, wing and slicks were Bellangers.

I'm not sure whether Mopar will offer these or not.

Dan

 

[rcl4668]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Hey Rich,

Bellanger puts a tag on their headers that you can see when you open the hood. They likely do this so that you know that they are Bellangers, i.e. sales purposes.

I was at the Detroit Auto Show in January and the headers on the 675 hp SRT with the splitter, wing and slicks were Bellangers.

I'm not sure whether Mopar will offer these or not.

Dan

Dan --

Thanks for the informative reply. When the 675 h Mopar car came out at the Detroit Auto Show, DCX/Mopar made the following press release:

"“We at SRT, along with our counterparts at Mopar Performance, wanted to build something for NAIAS that would show what can be done with the new '08 Viper,” said Steve Sharples, Viper Brand Manager at SRT. “This includes many of the new Mopar Performance parts which will be available for the car when it starts shipping to showrooms later this year.”

The Mopar Performance Parts featured are:

- Tubular Exhaust Header Package
- High-flowing, Cat-Back Exhaust System
- Low-restriction, functional Cold Air Intake System
- Fully adjustable Coilover Suspension Kit
- "Sidewinder" Lightweight Wheels (with anodized finish)"

It seems that if they are claiming 675 hp from "Mopar" headers (along with some SRT group parts that did not include headers) and the manufacturer of the part shownto the public is Bellanger is it a fair assumption that Bellanger will be the supplier to Mopar? What do you think?

/Rich

 

[doug fresh]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

just had headers put on my car from American Racing Headers and exhaust. Car is stock except for air filters and smooth tubes and the car dyno'd 431hp 479tq.
car is 2001 gts
thier phone number is 631-608-1986 ask for Nick

I will post dyno sheet when i figure out how to.

 

[Vipermann]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

How about 23hp for about $200 using OE manifolds?

Worked for me..twice

... Extrude Honed ported?

 

[Viper X]

Re: Headers Vs. Headers \"3 part Question\"

Rich,

I think it's likely that the Belangers will be supplied by Mopar, albeit at a slightly higher price and perhaps without the tag.

Dan