Hellcat versus Viper transmission

[05Commemorative]

I have to laugh when the term "slush box" is used. shows someones age and lock of knowledge of todays autos. We are not referring to your 1960's auto. more power an supercharger would have just got the same buyers of today. you want more, you offer and auto and conv.

I actually think that if Chrysler wanted to sell more Vipers, they would invest in R&D leading to more power, less weight and convertible availability. Instead of slush box option, there should be a supercharger option. Viper is a limited market car regardless of transmission it offers and money spent on slush box development would have to be recuperated through raising its price even more. Water under the bridge regardless since at least IMO, there will be no 2015 Viper.

 

[PeerBlock]

I actually think that if Chrysler wanted to sell more Vipers, they would invest in R&D leading to more power, less weight and convertible availability.

They did hit two of the 3 things you mentioned, but I don't think they had much of a budget to work with in the first place. You gotta remember that they were working on the Gen 5 in the pits of the obamaconomy circa 2009...the car was released for model year 2013, and that in itself is commendable. Not many other large corporations taking those kinds of risks these days. Was there an official announcement that they are axing the Viper again after 2015? I didn't see it.

Having an automatic option is smart marketing since older, established people generally have more money to spend on toys as evidenced by many of the posters on this site.

Well, that's an outdated point of view. It's 2014; there are plenty of people in their 20s and 30s who can afford six figure rides on their own dime.

I have not seen anything to suggest that the lack of an automatic option is hindering viper sales...if SRT is not hitting sales targets it's probably because they did a terrible job of raising awareness of the viper, as discussed in other threads.

As for "stepping aside", my only suggestion is that if your parents are alive that you should discuss your views regarding older people with them. It was older people who acted to guarantee you your freedom. I admire cutures and ethnic groups that respect and cherish their elderly. They have the internal wisdom to view an elderly person as a type of time machine who can shed light on many things and events since they lived through them.

Actually, that was a relatively small percentage of older folk who put their lives on the line for the USA and its citizens; the majority of the baby boomers are liberal morons who supported crap like "the new deal" and the "war on poverty" along with social security, medicare and other selfish policies that have been corroding this country from the inside out. The detrimental effects of older generation's generosity with other peoples' money have fed the entitlement society we have today...which is why I am not at all surprised that an old guy is sitting there demanding that SRT should cater the Viper to his liking, adding an auto trans, perhaps a handicap access ramp and even a walk-in bathtub in the trunk...rather than accepting the Viper as it is.

As for contributions to veterans, you are assuming that I do not. Your assumption is incorrect.

No, I'm not making that assumption. You pointed out a problem and I suggested that you should follow through and use your own money to help solve it, by offering to pay for manual to auto conversions for any wounded vet that owns a viper and cannot drive a manual. Are you already doing this? If so why not have them make a sticky thread?

There are some good and silly things said in here in response. 4 cyl, electric? seriously, you equate those items to an auto?

also, way over stating the sales. their goal was around 2000 a year. an auto would get them there. never a goal to get to 30k units a year.

Just asking you not go off the deep end with the camparisons.

The point is that once you start making changes to the car's fundamentals using questional reasoning you have to ask: why stop with just an auto trans? The prevailing logic in this thread has been that the Viper needs to be more like most other cars, a sentiment I disagree with, because I bought mine specifically because it is NOT like most other cars, in fact, it's like no other cars and it's definitely not for everyone.

Read more carefully - I never said that SRT wanted to move 30K Vipers per year...and I don't think SRT ever officially released their corporate data, including sales targets, so we can only speculate. The Viper is selling as good as it's going to with the level of effort they are placing into the marketing.

I have to laugh when the term "slush box" is used. shows someones age and lock of knowledge of todays autos. We are not referring to your 1960's auto. more power an supercharger would have just got the same buyers of today. you want more, you offer and auto and conv.

Before changing the car, why not advertise it to potential buyers? A lot of people don't even know they can buy a new Viper today.

 

[Bobpantax]

Sorry in advance for this post but the disrespect shown to millions of great people who sacrificed much by his words below needs to be answered. Here is the data of the number of U.S. soldiers from WW II and the number of soldiers who fought in Vietnam and the population data for the U.S for the relevant years. More and more young people minimize the great sacrifices made and ity is sickening.

Peerblock said:

"Actually, that was a relatively small percentage of older folk who put their lives on the line for the USA and its citizens; the majority of the baby boomers are liberal morons who supported crap like "the new deal" and the "war on poverty" along with social security, medicare and other selfish policies that have been corroding this country from the inside out. The detrimental effects of older generation's generosity with other peoples' money have fed the entitlement society we have today...which is why I am not at all surprised that an old guy is sitting there demanding that SRT should cater the Viper to his liking, adding an auto trans, perhaps a handicap access ramp and even a walk-in bathtub in the trunk...rather than accepting the Viper as it is."

WW II data:
The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

Population of the United States.

1945	139,928,165
1944	138,397,345
1943	136,739,353
1942	134,859,553	1.09	1,457,082
1941	133,402,471
1940	132,122,446
1939	130,879,718

Vietnam stats:

http://www.veteranshour.com/vietnam_war_statistics.htm

• Vietnam Vets: 9.7% of their generation​
• 9,087,000 Military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era. Aug. 5, 1964 - May 7, 1975. ​
• 
  8,744,000 GIs Were on active duty during the war. Aug. 5, 1964 - March 28, 1973
  
  Population of U.S.:
  
  
  July 1, 1973 211,908,788
  July 1, 1972 209,896,021
  July 1, 1971 207,660,677
  July 1, 1970 205,052,174
  July 1, 1969 202,676,946
  July 1, 1968 200,706,052
  July 1, 1967 198,712,056
  July 1, 1966 196,560,338
  July 1, 1965 194,302,963
  July 1, 1964 191,888,791
  

As for us old guys, my TA works pretty well and I think my signature speaks for itself. Take care.

 

[PeerBlock]

Soory in adavnce for this post but the disrespect shown to millions of great people who sacrificed much by these words needs to be answered. Here is the data of number of U.S. soldiers from WW II and the number of soldiers who fought in Vietnam.

You're trying to dodge the points I stated and turn this into a "support our troops" rant which is completely off topic...something a liberal would do.

Your numbers prove my point - a relatively small number of older people are actually veterans. Millions served, but hundreds of millions did not serve and are just old farts that think they're entitled to whatever they want and have been voting as such for decades. The vast majority of old people are the genesis of America's problems today...so that's your legacy and you get no respect for your selfish and self-serving attitude.

BTW You still haven't told us whether you are going to help our younger vets out by paying for them to swap manual -> auto trans if they own a viper. It was your idea after all, or did you just want to say that and expect SRT foot the bill for your empathy and generosity (also something a liberal would do).

 

[Bobpantax]

I have put you on ignore. You obviously are not aware of the history of my posts on this site. Sorry for the diversion.

 

[05Commemorative]

Bob, truly appreciate the post and equally stunned by Peerblock's disrespectful post. I had a father that served in Vietnam and both grandfathers in the military before him. No idea of Peerblock age, but very clearly has a dangerous combination of opinionated, disrespectful, and close minded.

Sorry in adavnce for this post but the disrespect shown to millions of great people who sacrificed much by his words below needs to be answered. Here is the data of the number of U.S. soldiers from WW II and the number of soldiers who fought in Vietnam and the poulation data for the U.S for the relevant years. More and more ypoung people minimize the great sacrifices made and ity is sickening.

Peerblock said:

"Actually, that was a relatively small percentage of older folk who put their lives on the line for the USA and its citizens; the majority of the baby boomers are liberal morons who supported crap like "the new deal" and the "war on poverty" along with social security, medicare and other selfish policies that have been corroding this country from the inside out. The detrimental effects of older generation's generosity with other peoples' money have fed the entitlement society we have today...which is why I am not at all surprised that an old guy is sitting there demanding that SRT should cater the Viper to his liking, adding an auto trans, perhaps a handicap access ramp and even a walk-in bathtub in the trunk...rather than accepting the Viper as it is."

WW II data:
The National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Learn: For Students: WWII by the Numbers: US Military

Population of the United States.

1945	139,928,165
1944	138,397,345
1943	136,739,353
1942	134,859,553	1.09	1,457,082
1941	133,402,471
1940	132,122,446
1939	130,879,718

Vietnam stats:

http://www.veteranshour.com/vietnam_war_statistics.htm

• Vietnam Vets: 9.7% of their generation​
• 9,087,000 Military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era. Aug. 5, 1964 - May 7, 1975. ​
• 
  8,744,000 GIs Were on active duty during the war. Aug. 5, 1964 - March 28, 1973
  
  Population of U.S.:
  
  
  July 1, 1973 211,908,788
  July 1, 1972 209,896,021
  July 1, 1971 207,660,677
  July 1, 1970 205,052,174
  July 1, 1969 202,676,946
  July 1, 1968 200,706,052
  July 1, 1967 198,712,056
  July 1, 1966 196,560,338
  July 1, 1965 194,302,963
  July 1, 1964 191,888,791
  

As for us old guys, my TA wroks pretty well and I think my signature speaks for itself. Take care.

 

[05Commemorative]

I just have to ask, do you read any of the stuff you write before you post it? Do you actually get it at all or how it lands on others? Do you ever look at it from someone other than your own point of view? Seriously, not sure if you have been drinking, are drunk, doped up, have mental issues or ... but can't imagine a rational person says the stuff you are saying here so hoping there is a reason you would bring up some of the most ridiculous insulting statements to have a stupid discussion on the viability of having an auto trans in a car. Try to think about that for just a bit before you next post.

You're trying to dodge the points I stated and turn this into a "support our troops" rant which is completely off topic...something a liberal would do.

Your numbers prove my point - a relatively small number of older people are actually veterans. Millions served, but hundreds of millions did not serve and are just old farts that think they're entitled to whatever they want and have been voting as such for decades. The vast majority of old people are the genesis of America's problems today...so that's your legacy and you get no respect for your selfish and self-serving attitude.

BTW You still haven't told us whether you are going to help our younger vets out by paying for them to swap manual -> auto trans if they own a viper. It was your idea after all, or did you just want to say that and expect SRT foot the bill for your empathy and generosity (also something a liberal would do).

 

[PeterMJ]

I have to laugh when the term "slush box" is used. shows someones age and lock of knowledge of todays autos. We are not referring to your 1960's auto. more power an supercharger would have just got the same buyers of today. you want more, you offer and auto and conv.

The principal is still the same-if the converter is still there, it is still a slush box, no matter how you slice it, hopefully a bit more efficient one though. I find it funny seeing people kidding themselves that it is not a slush box but feel free to humor yourself.

 

[PeterMJ]

This thread became pretty silly. If accommodations for people with disabilities should become a selling point, then why not deal with the side exhaust and those wide and hot sills first? Anyone physically impaired, will have a helluva time getting in the car and out of it, long before the issue of shifting gears comes to play. But then again, making Viper ADA compliant seems like a super far stretch to increase sales. I personally doubt that if either a DCT or slush box were available, there would be any significant increase in sales as it could be accomplished by realistic low interest financing and healthy discounts.

 

[ScrewDrvr]

Its also pretty silly for you to assume that an auto is something only made for a person with a disability.

 

[Bobpantax]

You are missing the point. No one is writing about making a Viper ADA compliant. As noted above in more than one post, the automatic would be an option. The purchaser would have to pay for it. As for the side exhaust, the Gen V side exhausts stay much cooler and the many people who would prefer an automatic due to the effects of osteoarthritis in their hands, wrists and knees or just because they prefer it, are not effected by the side exhausts. There is no doubt at all that there are a significant number of people out there who will buy the new Z Vette with an automatic. For instance, I have a friend who was the recipient of a DFC who lost a leg in combat. He is a gearhead and would love to buy a Viper. But it does not come with an automatic as an option. There really is no logical reason, other than development cost, not to have an automatic option. But, at least at the current time, there is no budget for it and there is unlikely to be one.

 

[PeterMJ]

Its also pretty silly for you to assume that an auto is something only made for a person with a disability.

Where exactly did I make this assumption? You may want to read more carefully all of the posts before concluding anything.

 

[ScrewDrvr]

Where exactly did I make this assumption? You may want to read more carefully all of the posts before concluding anything.

Its right there in your post above mine.

"If accommodations for people with disabilities should become a selling point"

Bob gave you a single example(among many) for a reason to have an auto. Thats it. Its no more of a "selling point" than any other car that comes with a manual and auto.

 

[PeterMJ]

You are missing the point. No one is writing about making a Viper ADA compliant. As noted above in more than one post, the automatic would be an option. The purchaser would have to pay for it. As for the side exhaust, the Gen V side exhausts stay much cooler and the many people who would prefer an automatic due to the effects of osteoarthritis in their hands, wrists and knees or just because they prefer it, are not effected by the side exhausts. There is no doubt at all that there are a significant number of people out there who will buy the new Z Vette with an automatic. For instance, I have a friend who was the recipient of a DFC who lost a leg in combat. He is a gearhead and would love to buy a Viper. But it does not come with an automatic as an option. There really is no logical reason, other than development cost, not to have an automatic option. But, at least at the current time, there is no budget for it and there is unlikely to be one.

I am sure you are familiar with the "tongue in cheek" phrase. And do you have results of any market study done by Chrysler supporting your notion? Anecdotal evidence does not mean much when auto manufacturer faces a big re-design expense. Let me give you my own example: I know a person who will not buy a Nissan GTR because it does not come with a manual transmission, does this mean Nissan should offer manual transmission option? If you want a manual tranny in GTR, there is aftermarket to take care of your needs. Since the person I am talking about is me, I decided to take a simpler approach, look at other cars.

 

[PeterMJ]

Its right there in your post above mine.

"If accommodations for people with disabilities should become a selling point"

Bob gave you a single example(among many) for a reason to have an auto. Thats it. Its no more of a "selling point" than any other car that comes with a manual and auto.

You missed that IF part and my statement being of conditional variety. My statement simply referred to people who feel this way, not me. I hope you can follow my explanation.

 

[klamathpro]

Someone in the local MCVO has an 02' GTS with an auto trans. He didn't buy a GEN5 because he needs an auto, so he bought a C7. Eventuallly everyone will need to go to DCT to stay competitive. The solution is actually very simple, and all it will take is Porsche or Nissan to figure out this very easy fix. Simply add a Stick to a DCT. The paddles are there for the speed freaks, the Stick is there for the purist, and the Auto is there for the oldies. Problem solved. A clutch pedal would be unnecessary, but at least you can run through all the gears by hand, the slow, old fashioned way. The stick can allow the driver to skip over several gears if desired - something you can't do with paddles. One transmission for everything and everyone.

 

[PeterMJ]

Someone in the local MCVO has an 02' GTS with an auto trans. He didn't buy a GEN5 because he needs an auto, so he bought a C7. Eventuallly everyone will need to go to DCT to stay competitive. The solution is actually very simple, and all it will take is Porsche or Nissan to figure out this very easy fix. Simply add a Stick to a DCT. The paddles are there for the speed freaks, the Stick is there for the purist, and the Auto is there for the oldies. Problem solved. A clutch pedal would be unnecessary, but at least you can run through all the gears by hand, the slow, old fashioned way. The stick can allow the driver to skip over several gears if desired - something you can't do with paddles. One transmission for everything and everyone.

DCT with fake shifter is not the same as manual transmission, not any different than electronic E-brake in lieu of mechanical emergency brake. If this is where the things are heading, then maybe the Viper should be laid to rest, while it can still be done with some dignity instead of remaining on artificial support, bad enough what is happening to Corvette these days.

 

[klamathpro]

DCT with fake shifter is not the same as manual transmission, not any different than electronic E-brake in lieu of mechanical emergency brake. If this is where the things are heading, then maybe the Viper should be laid to rest, while it can still be done with some dignity instead of remaining on artificial support, bad enough what is happening to Corvette these days.

People thought Drive-By-Wire would kill throttle response and now most people can't tell the difference on the GEN5. They could make a clutch pedal and a realistic feeling stick. Everything eventually has to go electronic or else get left behind in the dust. If the Viper had a DCT it would pull a 2.9 to 60 and 10:7's in the quarter based on the MP4-12C numbers with similar power to weight ratio. There are plenty GenX's out there to buy used for the next 50 years for the die hard purist. But as the sales numbers show, SRT didn't win over many P-car fans, or much of anyone with the "not so king of the hill" results. Had the Viper included a DCT, there would have been resistance among the die hard fans, but sales would have went through the roof after seeing how it would have killed everything out there that's RWD. Bottom line is, Corvette sells more auto trans models than stick, that's why they made the auto a more expensive option. Older people need that option, and they are the ones willing to pay for it. DCT with a stick and pedal could give everyone what they want in one package.

 

[05Commemorative]

I am confused on why you push back on simples facts.

some facts:
>60% of corvettes are sold with automatics
>80% of porsches, audi R8's and any other car in this price range are sold with automatics

Did all of those manufacturers just decide they would rather have auto's? No, they had data to show it would sell more cars. So, I am confused why this fact is a major surprise and why you would think the option of one for a Viper would not attract more buyers. Time to continue moving the car forward, particularly for young buyers.

I am sure you are familiar with the "tongue in cheek" phrase. And do you have results of any market study done by Chrysler supporting your notion? Anecdotal evidence does not mean much when auto manufacturer faces a big re-design expense. Let me give you my own example: I know a person who will not buy a Nissan GTR because it does not come with a manual transmission, does this mean Nissan should offer manual transmission option? If you want a manual tranny in GTR, there is aftermarket to take care of your needs. Since the person I am talking about is me, I decided to take a simpler approach, look at other cars.

 

[PeterMJ]

People thought Drive-By-Wire would kill throttle response and now most people can't tell the difference on the GEN5. They could make a clutch pedal and a realistic feeling stick. Everything eventually has to go electronic or else get left behind in the dust. If the Viper had a DCT it would pull a 2.9 to 60 and 10:7's in the quarter based on the MP4-12C numbers with similar power to weight ratio. There are plenty GenX's out there to buy used for the next 50 years for the die hard purist. But as the sales numbers show, SRT didn't win over many P-car fans, or much of anyone with the "not so king of the hill" results. Had the Viper included a DCT, there would have been resistance among the die hard fans, but sales would have went through the roof after seeing how it would have killed everything out there that's RWD. Bottom line is, Corvette sells more auto trans models than stick, that's why they made the auto a more expensive option. Older people need that option, and they are the ones willing to pay for it. DCT with a stick and pedal could give everyone what they want in one package.

IMO and only IMO, Viper has a very limited appeal to P buyers, no matter what features it would include. I actually think that a manual transmission emulator would be a horrible idea, not any different than simulating analog rotary dial on a touch screen phone. If you want to go digital, by all means do it but do not try to make it into something else. If you want a digital emulator, why not, this is what sells these days but grant some dignity to people like Shelby and do not call it Viper. Personally, I am strictly analog car guy, I hope I stay this way until I die. My gen 4 is as close as I come to digital age, even if it means a loss of a fraction of a second in acceleration.

 

[PeterMJ]

I think the flip flopping does not come from me. First Viper supposed to have an automatic (which to me means a slush box) to accommodate older and handicapped people, now it supposed to come with DCT to attract younger buyers. Which one is it? Or all of the above? Oh and is everyone forgetting about the new Alfa? This car comes only with DTC and again, IMO, is aimed directly at younger or younger at heart buyers. If Hennessey can slap a Vette motor in Lotus Elise and call it Venom, maybe Fiat will make a similar move, since the Alfa has already the tranny that appeals to modern buyers?
BTW, regarding those "facts", Lambo quit making manual tranny cars altogether (VW call). Was that done to make cars faster or simply to dumb them down to allow people with little or no driving skill to use them?

I am confused on why you push back on simples facts.

some facts:
>60% of corvettes are sold with automatics
>80% of porsches, audi R8's and any other car in this price range are sold with automatics

Did all of those manufacturers just decide they would rather have auto's? No, they had data to show it would sell more cars. So, I am confused why this fact is a major surprise and why you would think the option of one for a Viper would not attract more buyers. Time to continue moving the car forward, particularly for young buyers.

 

[TrackAire]

I think the flip flopping does not come from me. First Viper supposed to have an automatic (which to me means a slush box) to accommodate older and handicapped people, now it supposed to come with DCT to attract younger buyers. Which one is it? Or all of the above? Oh and is everyone forgetting about the new Alfa? This car comes only with DTC and again, IMO, is aimed directly at younger or younger at heart buyers. If Hennessey can slap a Vette motor in Lotus Elise and call it Venom, maybe Fiat will make a similar move, since the Alfa has already the tranny that appeals to modern buyers?
BTW, regarding those "facts", Lambo quit making manual tranny cars altogether (VW call). Was that done to make cars faster or simply to dumb them down to allow people with little or no driving skill to use them?

Peter,

I don't think it has anything to do with handicapped people, older buyers, etc......technically, the DCT "should" make the Viper faster on both the drag strip and road course. What is the biggest appeal of a performance car?.....to have the most performance. That is what sells cars (look at the original Viper formula,....crazy, outlandish and over the top performance).

Peerblocks notion that the Viper has a certain mantra to maintain was blown out of the water over 15 years ago when the Viper started to have roll up windows, coupe option, air conditioning (no Shelby Cobra came with that), anti lock brakes, fly by wire, stability control, traction control, bigger and better brakes, cruise control, navigation, etc, etc. This premise is like being "a little bit pregnant",....either you are or your are not. You can't pick and choose what "you" think is the way the car should go (although we all have opinions). The current performance technology, the competition and the marketing strategy of the car is what is going to determine what and how the car is optioned.

The auto feature should only be an option if it increases performance.....not for added comfort or drivers who don't like to shift. The byproduct of an auto is more may buy the car in addition to the added performance because they have bad knees, shoulders, physical handicaps or just don't like to shift. But if it does not increase performance, it should not be an option.

Unfortunately, I do not see SRT having the funds or corporate support to build a halo car at all costs just to be number one....even if it stays with the manual.

Cheers,
George

P.S. When are you going to bring the Rossion down Vacaville?.....I'll buy lunch.

 

[MoparMap]

The reason I like a stick so much is because it means I have full control of the car at my discretion. If I want to skip gears I can, if I want to hold it in gear longer I can, and more importantly, if I need to slip the clutch for whatever reason (like congested traffic) I can. Pretty sure the auto clutch cars don't appreciate stop-and-go stuff too much and can get pretty jerky. I daily drive mine, so I like having the ability to make it do whatever I feel like. I had a Jag XKR that I loved for the style and comfort, but got bored because they only offered them in autos. Just lost some of the fun of driving. Plus, I've yet to drive an auto (new or old) that is anywhere near as responsive as a stick. There's always lag between hammering the gas and downshifting and whatnot. Granted a DCT style setup wouldn't have this issue, but then I go back to the possible clutch problems.

For the humor side of things, I consider the stick a theft deterrant. I've read multiple stories about carjackers who tried to take a sports car like a Vette only to be confused by that stick coming out of the tunnel with the numbers on it and the third pedal by their feet. On top of that, if you see a girl driving one you know she can handle a stick .

 

[PeterMJ]

The reason I like a stick so much is because it means I have full control of the car at my discretion. If I want to skip gears I can, if I want to hold it in gear longer I can, and more importantly, if I need to slip the clutch for whatever reason (like congested traffic) I can. Pretty sure the auto clutch cars don't appreciate stop-and-go stuff too much and can get pretty jerky. I daily drive mine, so I like having the ability to make it do whatever I feel like. I had a Jag XKR that I loved for the style and comfort, but got bored because they only offered them in autos. Just lost some of the fun of driving. Plus, I've yet to drive an auto (new or old) that is anywhere near as responsive as a stick. There's always lag between hammering the gas and downshifting and whatnot. Granted a DCT style setup wouldn't have this issue, but then I go back to the possible clutch problems.

For the humor side of things, I consider the stick a theft deterrant. I've read multiple stories about carjackers who tried to take a sports car like a Vette only to be confused by that stick coming out of the tunnel with the numbers on it and the third pedal by their feet. On top of that, if you see a girl driving one you know she can handle a stick .

If you want Jag with stick, buy Aston Martin

 

[PeterMJ]

Peter,

I don't think it has anything to do with handicapped people, older buyers, etc......technically, the DCT "should" make the Viper faster on both the drag strip and road course. What is the biggest appeal of a performance car?.....to have the most performance. That is what sells cars (look at the original Viper formula,....crazy, outlandish and over the top performance).

Peerblocks notion that the Viper has a certain mantra to maintain was blown out of the water over 15 years ago when the Viper started to have roll up windows, coupe option, air conditioning (no Shelby Cobra came with that), anti lock brakes, fly by wire, stability control, traction control, bigger and better brakes, cruise control, navigation, etc, etc. This premise is like being "a little bit pregnant",....either you are or your are not. You can't pick and choose what "you" think is the way the car should go (although we all have opinions). The current performance technology, the competition and the marketing strategy of the car is what is going to determine what and how the car is optioned.

The auto feature should only be an option if it increases performance.....not for added comfort or drivers who don't like to shift. The byproduct of an auto is more may buy the car in addition to the added performance because they have bad knees, shoulders, physical handicaps or just don't like to shift. But if it does not increase performance, it should not be an option.

Unfortunately, I do not see SRT having the funds or corporate support to build a halo car at all costs just to be number one....even if it stays with the manual.

Cheers,
George

P.S. When are you going to bring the Rossion down Vacaville?.....I'll buy lunch.

At the time Viper came out, C4 ZR1 was a better performer all around, just failed to distinguish itself from the rest of Corvettes visually. Viper had more emotional appeal and perception of needing to be tamed, something that Corvette always left out. I think, and again IMO only, a well designed clutch and matching flywheel can be just as effective for improving Viper performance than any slush box or DCT. At least, there is something to strive for, beats just stepping on accelerator after assuring launch control is engaged. Each to their own though, way too deprived of emotion for my taste.

I think the role of automation in driving is subjective and debatable: do you make driving skill less of a factor to allow everyone to extract the maximum potential of a car or do you keep automation at bay to allow humans to develop themselves? Do you want to end up with a breed of automotive Morlocks? Personally, I'll pass. If Viper cannot be preserved to serve its original purpose, why not just put it out of its misery instead of forcing it to play roles it was not designed to play?

Oh and my new car: full of masking tape, glassing myself a few trinkets and seriously considering driving it after dark only afterwards, LOL.

 

[ViperSmith]

You haven't and aren't going to buy a Gen V Viper.

Your opinions mean nothing, just more insane ranting - has anyone read peter boys insane blog about the C7?

The fact is simple DCT would open the viper up to more buyers. It is a non negotiable fact.

 

[ViperSmith]

If you guys haven't, read his blog http://corvettec7fiasco.blogspot.com/?m=1

He writes insane rants multiple times a day about something that has no bearing on his life.

You guys are arguing with a windmill

 

[PeterMJ]

You haven't and aren't going to buy a Gen V Viper.

Your opinions mean nothing, just more insane ranting - has anyone read peter boys insane blog about the C7?
a
The fact is simple DCT would open the viper up to more buyers. It is a non negotiable fact.

Opinions mean nothing in general-as just validated by Captain Obvious himself and his own opinion. I was actually going to buy Gen 5 but went with Prius instead... Oh and thanks for free advertisement of my Corvette blog-on Viper forum. I am still trying to figure out why you are on my ignore list, you are way too entertaining...

 

[05Commemorative]

Did I say DCT somewhere? What flip flopping you referring. I think what you perceive as flip flopping is actually many many valid reasons to have an auto offered as an option. The DCT vs regular auto is simply noise in the equation of which type to offer.

I think the flip flopping does not come from me. First Viper supposed to have an automatic (which to me means a slush box) to accommodate older and handicapped people, now it supposed to come with DCT to attract younger buyers. Which one is it? Or all of the above? Oh and is everyone forgetting about the new Alfa? This car comes only with DTC and again, IMO, is aimed directly at younger or younger at heart buyers. If Hennessey can slap a Vette motor in Lotus Elise and call it Venom, maybe Fiat will make a similar move, since the Alfa has already the tranny that appeals to modern buyers?
BTW, regarding those "facts", Lambo quit making manual tranny cars altogether (VW call). Was that done to make cars faster or simply to dumb them down to allow people with little or no driving skill to use them?

 

[TrackAire]

At the time Viper came out, C4 ZR1 was a better performer all around, just failed to distinguish itself from the rest of Corvettes visually. Viper had more emotional appeal and perception of needing to be tamed, something that Corvette always left out. I think, and again IMO only, a well designed clutch and matching flywheel can be just as effective for improving Viper performance than any slush box or DCT. At least, there is something to strive for, beats just stepping on accelerator after assuring launch control is engaged. Each to their own though, way too deprived of emotion for my taste.

I think the role of automation in driving is subjective and debatable: do you make driving skill less of a factor to allow everyone to extract the maximum potential of a car or do you keep automation at bay to allow humans to develop themselves? Do you want to end up with a breed of automotive Morlocks? Personally, I'll pass. If Viper cannot be preserved to serve its original purpose, why not just put it out of its misery instead of forcing it to play roles it was not designed to play?

Oh and my new car: full of masking tape, glassing myself a few trinkets and seriously considering driving it after dark only afterwards, LOL.

I love Peters blog on the C7.....honestly, I don't know where you find the time. You know the guys at GM start their morning coffee off by looking at it, discussing it, laughing at some points, concern about others and trying to figure out what the did to piss off of this Peter guy.

A quick shifting trans requires much more skill to drive on the track because there is less time to make decisions from corner to corner since the car will accelerate and decelerate that much faster.....you have to be a better driver than driving a slower manual trans car. In the last 10 years, Formula 1 drivers move to Nascar, but no Nascar driver moves to Formula 1. Same for Indy car....Formula 1 drivers move down, but I can't remember the last successful modern Indy car driver to do well in Formula 1. The reaction times to drive one of those cars is night and day from a manually shifted car. To say that it takes less skill to drive a quick shifting auto trans on the track is not correct or people just do not understand basic physics and real race car dynamics. On the street, it won't make as much difference since you'd have to drive totally bonkers to reach either a manually trans or auto trans car to even touch the Vipers potential.

And don't worry Peter, we have a lot of eating establishments that are open late into the night, some 24 hours! Your Rossion "vampire car" will be totally safe and home before the sun comes up, lol.