HELP! Gen III fuel pump replacement

[VOI94of100]

My '06 coupe is not getting fuel. Must the fuel tank come out in order to replace the fuel pump? Are there sensors in the fuel system that would prevent the fuel pump from normal operation? Also, the quick connect on the fuel rail for the braided fuel line appears to be different from the ones used on earlier snakes... Do the Gen III OEM connectors also require a special tool to disconnect them? I'm going to try and connect a temporary pressurized fuel supply to the fuel rail just to be able to move the Viper to a location where a transport truck can get it to a dealership.

Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated! - THANKS.

 

[bluesrt]

you dont remove the tank for replacement, pull out rear carpet to get to service plate,then pump is under the service plate

 

[MoparMap]

Can you hear the pump cycling or priming? Might be something as easy as a bad fuse as well. Might as well check the easy stuff first yourself if you can before having the pump removed.

 

[JAY]

Check your filter to see if its plugged .

 

[VOI94of100]

you dont remove the tank for replacement, pull out rear carpet to get to service plate,then pump is under the service plate

There is about a 10" round plastic cover near the center of the deck under the carpet, but it has metal inserts that appear to have screws coming from the underside to hold it in place... remember, this is a coupe, so it might be different from a conv?

 

[VOI94of100]

Can you hear the pump cycling or priming? Might be something as easy as a bad fuse as well. Might as well check the easy stuff first yourself if you can before having the pump removed.

From the fuel relay in the fuse housing under the hood, the female connector to the fuel pump reads only about 0.7-0.8 ohms to ground, and it draws 14 amps when connected to 12 Volts. There is no sound coming from anywhere..?? It seems that the current draw is too high, unless I have a pump that is "frozen" some how, or I have a partial short in the line or pump.

BTW, I've put 27k miles on her, and this happened all at once after a ride, a fill-up, and sitting for about 10 days. It DOES throw the error code for a fuel system problem (wonder why-lol).

 

[ACRucrazy]

I believe they are pop rivets that need to be drilled out?

 

[FOViper]

Call Scharfs and you can get a full replacement unit for a little over $100. Very easy to swap a new bucket in.

 

[VOI94of100]

Thanks for your time everybody... I'm down to the top of the bucket, and now I'm not sure how to release the plastic retaining cap/ring. This should be the LAST step to pulling the bucket out, it looks like. I found a detailed DIY on Allpar.com, but it was for Gen ll, and had a metal retainer that is to be tapped with a bronze punch...etc, etc. here's what I've got...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Nine Ball]

That outer ring isn't very fun to remove. It is threaded on, and usually pretty tight. I used a 2x2 block of wood and tapped it with a hammer to get it spinning off (counter clock-wise), being careful not to hit it too hard. I used wood to keep from damaging the plastic grip lines, as it is softer than plastic. They make a special tool for removing it, but I didn't have one at the time. Just take your time, move the wood around and knock on various grip lines around the perimeter.

 

[FOViper]

Thanks for your time everybody... I'm down to the top of the bucket, and now I'm not sure how to release the plastic retaining cap/ring. This should be the LAST step to pulling the bucket out, it looks like. I found a detailed DIY on Allpar.com, but it was for Gen ll, and had a metal retainer that is to be tapped with a bronze punch...etc, etc. here's what I've got...

You must be registered for see images attach

Flat head screwdriver and a hammer I tried the "special tool" and it didn't work very well.

 

[ROCKET62]

Ditto - Large flat blade screwdriver and a hammer:

Flat head screwdriver and a hammer I tried the "special tool" and it didn't work very well.

 

[C-Note]

I have a good used Gen3 fuel pump if you are interested. I upgraded mine when I upped the boost in my car.

 

[bluesrt]

From the fuel relay in the fuse housing under the hood, the female connector to the fuel pump reads only about 0.7-0.8 ohms to ground, and it draws 14 amps when connected to 12 Volts. There is no sound coming from anywhere..?? It seems that the current draw is too high, unless I have a pump that is "frozen" some how, or I have a partial short in the line or pump.

BTW, I've put 27k miles on her, and this happened all at once after a ride, a fill-up, and sitting for about 10 days. It DOES throw the error code for a fuel system problem (wonder why-lol).

filling the car up on a near death fuel pump will finish it off everytime, 99 percent of cars that get towed in my shop with a bad pump allways have a full tank... lol, true story

 

[VOI94of100]

C-Note - Is it the whole bucket? How much $ are you wanting to get for it?

 

[Roysviper]

See my comment below



My '06 coupe is not getting fuel. Must the fuel tank come out in order to replace the fuel pump? Are there sensors in the fuel system that would prevent the fuel pump from normal operation? Also, the quick connect on the fuel rail for the braided fuel line appears to be different from the ones used on earlier snakes... Do the Gen III OEM connectors also require a special tool to disconnect them? I'm going to try and connect a temporary pressurized fuel supply to the fuel rail just to be able to move the Viper to a location where a transport truck can get it to a dealership.


Worst case is that your computer has gone bad.......it will prevent the pump from coming on....and also the crank sensor and cam sensor so I am not convinced the pump is bad.......




Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated! - THANKS.[/QUOTE]

 

[VOI94of100]

Roysviper - It is the actual pump that is bad. I've taken the whole bucket out & pulled the pump itself out. It does exactly the same thing... It's actually STUCK or jammed, like something has come apart or worn out and locked it up. There is a small amount of play, if I very briefly reverse the 12V & gnd, you can hear it try to run backwards with a clacking sound... But just the first time. If I then connect it with proper polarity, it does it then also... The first time. I'll end up grinding rivets etc. to get it apart just to satisfy my own curiosity about the failure mode. I'll post some pics of what I find. I don't think I've ever even heard of an electric fuel pump fail in this particular way..??

 

[steve911]

Roysviper - It is the actual pump that is bad. I've taken the whole bucket out & pulled the pump itself out. It does exactly the same thing... It's actually STUCK or jammed, like something has come apart or worn out and locked it up. There is a small amount of play, if I very briefly reverse the 12V & gnd, you can hear it try to run backwards with a clacking sound... But just the first time. If I then connect it with proper polarity, it does it then also... The first time. I'll end up grinding rivets etc. to get it apart just to satisfy my own curiosity about the failure mode. I'll post some pics of what I find. I don't think I've ever even heard of an electric fuel pump fail in this particular way..??

I guess you never owned an early to mid nineties Chrysler Product have you? The Neons and other front drive vehicles were notorious for losing pumps...

 

[VOI94of100]

I guess you never owned an early to mid nineties Chrysler Product have you? The Neons and other front drive vehicles were notorious for losing pumps...

SOLUTION!!! I successfully found out exactly what caused my fuel pump to lock up. After taking a dremel with a cutting disc to it, I was able to take it appart. It didn't take long to see that it was simply oxidation or RUST that did the pump in. As you can see in the photo, the lobes of the pump are so oxidized that they are preventing the pump from turning.

The car had not been cranked up in about 10 days, so it only took that long for water in the gas to cause that degree of oxidation! Needless to say, I'll be using gas additive that removes water from the fuel system a lot more often now...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[VOI94of100]

Thanks for the lead - just ordered a pump from Scharf's.

 

[VOI94of100]

Call Scharfs and you can get a full replacement unit for a little over $100. Very easy to swap a new bucket in.

Thanks for the lead - just ordered a pump from Scharf's.

 

[C-Note]

C-Note - Is it the whole bucket? How much $ are you wanting to get for it?

It is the whole thing including the bucket. Looks like you have a solution, if not let me know and Ill make you a fair deal on it.

 

[Nine Ball]

Weird about the rust in there. I always wondered what it looked like inside the fuel pump, wasn't expecting a small gerotor.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Wow-that is a lot of rust for 10 days. Where have you been getting gas? You may want to switch stations. If I was a betting man, you have been getting water-laced fuel for a while, and it just so happened that you pulled up straight water on shut-down the last go-around, it sat for a while, and did her in.

That is a typical fuel pump design. There are four primary types I have seen; Gerotor, Spur Gear, Turbine, and Vane. Gerotor is as above [Walbro], Spur Gear uses two gears in a traditional pump arrangement [Mechanical drive typically], Turbine [Walbro 400/Aeromotive 340], and Vane [Weldon, similar to a Power Steering Pump]