hennessey or belanger exhaust?

[jimandela]

Of the 2 which setup is the best?

the henn is $4200
the bel is $3995

i just want the best any input appricated...
p.s. the henn tips look great at 4 inch
thanks
JIM

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

The price quoted must be the installed price? It also seems high. Have you also considered CDI, TNT, SVSi, Borla, Edelbrock?
Go to the Archer thread, it has a lot of info on headers. Call Jon B at the PartsRack for pricing.

 

[BLS]

Tom Welch is the only Vendor/Tuner that offers a performance guarantee... on a pre-2000 car it's 50 RWHP or your money back!

He currently has the complete Belenger system priced at $3,395.00 and he will do the install for you for $500.00.

The Belenger and Hennessey systems sound best to me. But, the Belenger system makes more power. Click on the link below for proof:

Http://btrviper.com/dynofaq1.htm

Give Tom a call. He is a great guy and he will treat you right.

Tom Welch
BTR VIPER Performance
http://www.btrviper.com
[email protected] - Email
(352) 622-6219 - Office

And like Fred said, Be sure to read the "Archer Headers" thread. There's lots of good info there.

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/005613.html

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

Jim,

I have many-a-viper run through our shop; I find it exciting to be able to drive Vipers with all types of modifications.

It's amazing, standing next to a customer, listening to an exhaust system and thinking "how displeasing the sound was to me." But on the same token, the customer likes the sound of the same system. Being a Viper tuner, I cannot tell a customer how an exhaust system should sound, that is a personal judgment call. When your driving your Viper, you have to listen to that humble roar every time you cruise, start the car, drive to the cleaners, every time etc... etc... .

So if you contemplate cost vs. sound vs. horsepower...
Keep in mind:

The cost hurts once, the horsepower is worth trading +/- 5 to 10 hp.
But the sound you have to listen to ALL the time!

Choose wisely and good luck,
Doug

 

[treynor]

That IS a wierd looking dyno graph. The dyno runs were performed on two different days, and from the notes the car running the Hennessey setup also had a K&N airbox, a system not noted for its power. Tom's notes indicate that the same model of car was tested, but not whether it was the same exact car (unlikely) or what else was on the car. The most that can be inferred from that graph is that the Belanger system can produce good power, which we already know.

The consistent power difference between the cars throughout the rev range leads me to believe that either (a) the Hennessey-system car was running stock cats (subtract 15 HP and 25 ft/lbs compared to no cats) or it was just a much weaker car.

I'm sure Tom will have some useful information to add to this thread when he wakes up tomorrow morning.

 

[LTHL VPR]

I think they are both great systems w/ good designs! I do not think you will find a noticeable/significant power difference between the 2, especially on your 2001. However, since you have a 2001, make sure who ever you order them from realizes you are installing this on a 2001. Most 2001s will throw a check engine light with aftermarket headers. We have had luck repositioning the 02 to eliminate this problem. It's not rocket science, yet it has worked every time for us thus far.

As a result, at the end of the day, it may make sense to make your decision based upon your opinion of their sound. Try and see if you can listen to Vipers that are using these systems. Sound is a personal choice, and you should be happy with either of them.
Hope this helps! Let me know if we can help you with anything else. You can reach me at 408.562.1000.
thanks!
-Wayne (LTHL VPR)
APEX MOTORSPORTS: DODGE VIPER SPECIALISTS

 

[BLS]

John, If you have never seen this dynograph before... you must be blind. I took it right from Tom Welch's post on the "Archer Thread" that you can view by clicking on the link below:

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/005613.html

As for the details of the dyno pull. I will let the owners of the (2) cars explain that. And you can reach them by dialing the telephone numbers below:

Lee Saunders (863)660-4803

Tom Welch (352) 622-6219

As for my car, we didn't see a noticable differnce between the factory air box and the cone filters. In fact, I think I was losing RWHP on the dyno with the cone (hot air induction) filters installed.

My 2001 Viper... like Ben Treynor's and Gary Lashinsky's was not able to crack 440 RWHP with just headers and exhaust.

The strange thing is Gary's 2001 GTS made 415 RWHP stock. But, only picked up 18.5 RWHP (for a total of 433.5) with the CDI Headers, no cats and 3" Corsa Cat back.

At first Larry Macedo thought it might be the computer. So, we installed a computer from both a 96 and 98 Viper GTS in both Gary's and my car. But, it didn't make a difference on the dyno.

Now both Larry and Tom Welch are looking at the cam and other engine internals as the reason the 2000+ cars do not respond as well to modifications.

None of these cars were down on power from the factory. They are just not responding to headers and exhaust like the older Viper's are.

As for me... I am tired of playing games. I plan to have Larry and Tom dive into the motor and do what ever it takes to turn my car into a monster.

I will keep you posted with the results.

 

[BLS]

Wayne, I am very happy to report that I have 800+ miles on my car since Tom installed the Belenger's and there is no sign of a check engine light yet.

Like everyone else... I was expecting to see it after two to three hundred miles.

 

[Tom Welch]

WOW!, Looks like Header War Part 25!

John,

The temp noted was Intake Air Temp(warmer than outside air..this was the third pull of this session) I will place a call to Dynomotors and see if Wayne has record of the actual temp that day(it was very hot......and his shop is enclosed in a metal building with little insulation!) Both cars were run Catless, both cars ran @ 408 rwhp BONE STOCK. One other thing to note is that once the Belangers were installed on the car in question it made 469 rwhp at 502 rw torque!(those dyno graphs are also on my website for your viewing pleasure. I attribute the 9 hp difference to my car in the K&N airbox as my car has stock tubes and filters.

Also I can provide you and anyone else over 20 dyno pulls on my car that are within 3 hp of 460. You previously stated that your system makes around 445, so why the heckling over the numbers?? Beleive me the numbers are VERY real. DEAL WITH THE TRUTH!! Aren't you a one time Belanger customer??..........love ya man!!

My customers have long since been my best salesmen. Please feel free to contact Mr. Saunders as he is very well known and respected by many at DC for his long history of Mopar Racing and car collecting. He has VERY rare cars in the Garlits Museum, and Smithsonian. They know their racing and they take it seriously as they are current NHRA WORLD RECORD HOLDERS in one of the very competitive Super Stock Classes. He owns 3 vipers! When we made those pulls he immediately reached for his wallet in disgust because of what he paid for the HMS system.

I offer this challenge to anyone. Check the archives of this site back to the old board even...........See what headers and exhaust were selling for a year and a half ago. See if you can find the Belanger name anywhere. I will save you all some time. Prices were rediculous and Belanger was unknown(known only to a fortunate few throughout the southwest, particularly the Dessert Venom Race Team). To some degree, my efforts have brought my competitors to bear on the claims of their products and helped to bring prices more into line for customers(I was a customer once myself!!) It continues to be my sole mission to provide proven performance at realistic prices. PERIOD.

Jim,

The good news is that you can be assured that product improvements and price alignments are the by-products of these discussions. I wish you well in your search. Feel free to contact me for a LONG list of happy Header and Exhaust customers who would love to have your ear for a while.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Marc Lublin]

Jim,
As you are learning there are many different opinions and tests on headers. I believe that all are probably good. I have a set of Hennessey on one car and Ballangers on the other. Both sound great, although the Hennessey headers hit on the frame of the car a little and the Ballangers don't. If I were you I would stay away from purchasing anything from Hennessey. I would read posts such as "negative tuner experiences" and search for other posts regarding Hennessey as well. In my case, he gave me poor workmanship, used parts and absolutely terrible customer service. Many others have had similar experiences. I got my money back after over a year of fighting, but not everyone does. Bottom line is there are many good headers out there, but Hennessey's are a scary option.

 

[Martin D]

Marc,

You remind me of a little old lady - constantly telling the same story OVER and OVER again. Maybe you should change your name to Parrot Lublin.....

I guess I will just have to try to keep you in check with all my POSITIVE Hennessey experiences.

I have the Hennessey Headers on my 650R. Great fit, beautiful craftmanship. oh, and they DON'T hit the frame.

I suggest you go with the Hennessey setup.

Polly want a *******??

Regards,

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Want to talk about records.

Caldwell provided the motors for ORECA's FIA's Champs, Three 24 hour of LeMans wins,ALMS season Champ, Rolex 24 hour over all win in 2000.

Want serious motors and headers call Caldwell!

 

[Marc Lublin]

Martin,
As I have said many times in the past, I am glad that you received a good product and had no problems. It's just that myself and many others have not.
Jim looks as if he is new to the board. Unfortunately most people do not check the various old posts, they just post their question. Obviously there has been an enormous amount written about headers and he didn't see it. This also means that he probably didn't see all of the negative stuff written about Hennessey. Sorry if I sound like a parrot. All I can say is, don't read it. However I will still continue to inform anyone who isn't familiar with HMS business practices so that they don't run into hard times as well.
Good day all!

 

[Martin D]

Hey Marc -

I am just messing with you!

Regards,

 

[Prashant]

Did anybody read what Albert said above, or I we just going to ignore the correction factor?

 

[jimandela]

Wow!!!
I didn't realize I would get such a heated debate about 2 manufactures of exhaust systems.

I even got some guy send me e-mail asking me to answer viper questions. I guess to see if I really own one?????

Anyhow, yes I knew of all the old post about tuners both positive and negative.
I thought my question was to the point about one product not upgrade VS upgrade. or godforbid brakes...

just exhaust systems. I do appreciate all the input... I has given me tons to think about. right now I have to wait until the local viper tech returns from vacation to decide. I don't know if he has
done headers before? or how much install would cost?

I only drive on the street, no track time yet, maybe never????
I just wanted the best system with the best sound and of course hp for the money.
thanks again for the info.
JIM

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

I just figured out why my car is down on power on motor. Next time I go to the dyno Im going to set the correction factor at 1.03.

 

[Mike H]

I beleive at the Mid-ohio Viper days event all the cars were dynoed. I beleive that the cars that had Belanger headers CONSISTAntly all made more HP and Torque than cars with other headers installed. I beleive that was the benchmark they used to figure the average Hp range for the wheel to wheel race.

 

[FikseGTS]

I have the edelbrock/borla combo with the cats on my 1996 GTS, it dyno's 450+ rwhp & 500+ rwtq and ran 11.6 @ 120 on street tires....

I raced a 2001 with Archer headers and borla exhaust.... pulled it by a couple car legnths from a roll....

Brooks

http://viper.dragtimes.com

 

[KenricGTS]

My '96 GTS made 452rwhp and 512rwt with the Balanger headers and BTR cat back. The only other mod is a HMS carbon fiber airbox. I bought the headers from Tom Welch and he is a class act. Give Tom a call he can answer any questions you have. The sound is awesome! Whatever system you choose will sound better than stock!

Best Regards, Kenric