Hmmmm, words from Ralph

[chorps]

All I defend is the car having modern cyl. heads to go with a larger C.I. engine. Would hate to see the viper with little motor. even with a 7.8L V10 we would be making a lot more power than the actual saturated 8.4L

I'd rather have a 10.0-12L V10 OHV that has direct injection and cylinder deactivation for fuel economy and emissions. And zero throttle lag (hope it's been fixed on the Gen V).

 

[JAY]

Direct Injection is Over Rated !!! Ford produced similar Horsepower in there V6 With Out DI . Compared to Cadilac with DI . They had the option to. and by design choose Not To, After extensive testing ! In A Performance application DI Has its Limitations , Great for Gas Mileage though ! FWIW

 

[Viper Grenade]

1500lb downforce, DI and Twin Turbos....now that would be A Gen 5 I would buy.

 

[V10lover]

I'd rather have a 10.0-12L V10 OHV that has direct injection and cylinder deactivation for fuel economy and emissions. And zero throttle lag (hope it's been fixed on the Gen V).

OK........

 

[Viper Grenade]

V10lover needs to sell his Viper and buy a BMW 128i. He doesn't understand Viper DNA. Big cube, pushrods and a V10. Take it or leave it.

 

[JAY]

Too Funny

V10lover needs to sell his Viper and buy a BMW 128i. He doesn't understand Viper DNA. Big cube, pushrods and a V10. Take it or leave it.

 

[V10lover]

Direct Injection is Over Rated !!! Ford produced similar Horsepower in there V6 With Out DI . Compared to Cadilac with DI . They had the option to. and by design choose Not To, After extensive testing ! In A Performance application DI Has its Limitations , Great for Gas Mileage though ! FWIW

Exactly Jay, That's why I try to talk to those guys here and some (Chorps) don't seem to get it. The Guy think a modern DOHC engine V8 with cubic inch around 5 liters and TI-VCT will have Throttle lag. What a funny guy. I'm gonna land my 2013 mustang GT 5 Liter keys to him so he can take it for a spin and see for himself if any lag is present in a modern DOHC engine.
The car has 3.4L LESS displacement than my 10 acr and has way more of an instant hit downlow than my viper. TI-VCT works amazing! I can also spin the engine safely to almost 8000rpm is I want to. TORQUE IS EVERYWHERE in the rpm band and so is HP. NO LAG!!

 

[JAY]

I recall the Ford engineers saying the TI-VCT system is Great for High Horsepower applications ,and mitigates Heat Soak Better than Direct Injection Systems , which They Also Produce !!!

Exactly Jay, That's why I try to talk to those guys here and some (Chorps) don't seem to get it. The Guy think a modern DOHC engine V8 with cubic inch around 5 liters and TI-VCT will have Throttle lag. What a funny guy. I'm gonna land my 2013 mustang GT 5 Liter keys to him so he can take it for a spin and see for himself if any lag is present in a modern DOHC engine.
The car has 3.4L LESS displacement than my 10 acr and has way more of an instant hit downlow than my viper. TI-VCT works amazing! I can also spin the engine safely to almost 8000rpm is I want to. TORQUE IS EVERYWHERE in the rpm band and so is HP. NO LAG!!

 

[V10lover]

I recall the Ford engineers saying the TI-VCT system is Great for High Horsepower applications ,and mitigates Heat Soak Better than Direct Injection Systems , which They Also Produce !!!

I don't know about that. What I can tell you is that I will never get back to a pushrod engine ever again. Viper was the last one. All my next purchases will be based on large Cubic inch with DOHC heads. Chrysler and chevy don't want to evelove like the others is their problem.. Not mine. They won't see a penny of my money anymore.

 

[speedracervr4]

Chrysler and chevy don't want to evelove like the others is their problem.. Not mine. They won't see a penny of my money anymore.

So why are you here?

 

[JAY]

They must be doing something Right , After Setting Track Records and Being King of the Ring . lol !

I don't know about that. What I can tell you is that I will never get back to a pushrod engine ever again. Viper was the last one. All my next purchases will be based on large Cubic inch with DOHC heads. Chrysler and chevy don't want to evelove like the others is their problem.. Not mine. They won't see a penny of my money anymore.

 

[Torquemonster]

The 5.0 engine is far lighter than the Euro V8's of equivalent capacity but is still a wider engine taking up more space than an LS7.

A DOHC 40V 8.4L V10 would be physically massive, though technically possible to fit between any generation Viper fenders. Getting a decent exhaust in there might be harder, there'd certainly be some tight turns. Realistically, if SRT went that way, the V10 would have to reduce down in size to fit and have room for decent plumbing - it might end up around 6.4L as a V10.

No doubt the OHC and 4V design offers the ultimate in rpm range, but if you compare a DOHC and OHV engine with identical weights and outer dimensions (ie they take up the same space) then the OHV engine should make more power and torque by virtue of the fact it will be sporting an extra 2L capacity. i.e an 8.4 OHV V10 will beat a 6.4L quad cam 40V V10 in equivalent street tunes. We just are not going to see an 8.4 quad cam motor IMHO due to the size.

 

[chorps]

Way to alienate everyone by insulting them. Seriously, the Viper and Vette are top dog competitors for comparatively small money, yet you trash the Viper engine, the owners and the design thought behind it. With friends like this, does the Viper need enemies?

Everyone else seems to understand that putting in a DOHC in this type of application will make the Viper engine package bigger, heavier, raise costs and be more complex as well. A DOHC isn't necessarily 'better' because all you want to believe is that breathing and revs are the end all and be all to performance. Sure, good top end breathing is great, but displacement is as well. I don't want a smaller displacement engine just to fit DOHC heads, given the same engine dimensions. I don't think a lot of other people here would make that trade off either.

I don't believe anyone put a gun to your head to buy a Viper, so if you wanted something different you should have bought something different.

 

[VCA Forum Staff]

Let's all cool down a bit to a simmer. No need for name calling.

 

[ViperGTS]

DOHC and more valves involves more rotating/moving parts...way to complex (for me) and heavy for a 8.4 L V10.
Guess where the power comes from for moving/reciprocating all the add. parts?

 

[V10lover]

So why are you here?

I thought there was hope...

 

[V10lover]

They must be doing something Right , After Setting Track Records and Being King of the Ring . lol !

They did something right but like most things it got saturated. It is time to evolve. This record is only good for bragging rights atm. Nothing else. Do you drive at the ring? Do you drive at laguna seca when driving your viper?

Everyday day drivers, that's what 99% of the owners are here. That's the bottom line.
New car is 2 seconds behind the boosted one. lol

 

[V10lover]

The 5.0 engine is far lighter than the Euro V8's of equivalent capacity but is still a wider engine taking up more space than an LS7.

A DOHC 40V 8.4L V10 would be physically massive, though technically possible to fit between any generation Viper fenders. Getting a decent exhaust in there might be harder, there'd certainly be some tight turns. Realistically, if SRT went that way, the V10 would have to reduce down in size to fit and have room for decent plumbing - it might end up around 6.4L as a V10.

No doubt the OHC and 4V design offers the ultimate in rpm range, but if you compare a DOHC and OHV engine with identical weights and outer dimensions (ie they take up the same space) then the OHV engine should make more power and torque by virtue of the fact it will be sporting an extra 2L capacity. i.e an 8.4 OHV V10 will beat a 6.4L quad cam 40V V10 in equivalent street tunes. We just are not going to see an 8.4 quad cam motor IMHO due to the size.

Not true.

The lambo Aventador comes with a 6.5L DOHC engine with 700hp and it beats our viper pushrod with its big 8.4L.
So, yes, it is making more power than a 8.4L V10 even with only being 6.4L. Yes, it is expensive, yes, it is heavier but I asked this and will ask again to all of you:

Would you rather have an engine that is a 35-50 lbs heavier or so making 100-200 hp MORE with room to grow or the 35lbs-50lbs lighter one of 1989 that is already running on its limits?

The factory and engineers could fit a 7.5L, 7.8L or even 8.0L V10 DOHC in the viper. It would fit, it is just a matter of WANTING TO DO!

 

[V10lover]

Way to alienate everyone by insulting them. Seriously, the Viper and Vette are top dog competitors for comparatively small money, yet you trash the Viper engine, the owners and the design thought behind it. With friends like this, does the Viper need enemies?

Everyone else seems to understand that putting in a DOHC in this type of application will make the Viper engine package bigger, heavier, raise costs and be more complex as well. A DOHC isn't necessarily 'better' because all you want to believe is that breathing and revs are the end all and be all to performance. Sure, good top end breathing is great, but displacement is as well. I don't want a smaller displacement engine just to fit DOHC heads, given the same engine dimensions. I don't think a lot of other people here would make that trade off either.


I don't believe anyone put a gun to your head to buy a Viper, so if you wanted something different you should have bought something different.

I don't know why you get so upset here. You've been disrespecting me since I started posting here and you don't seem to understand the advantages that a dohc would offer would more than surpass our current size engine even if it was down by 1.5L or so. It is the TRUTH! 50 lbs of extra weight is very easy to overtake when your making 100-200 more hp with a modern engine..
weight reduction is easy to do and most times even free.

How many DOHC Vehicles with 5 liter displacement or over have you own in the last few years of life?
Please let me know...

 

[V10lover]

DOHC and more valves involves more rotating/moving parts...way to complex (for me) and heavy for a 8.4 L V10.
Guess where the power comes from for moving/reciprocating all the add. parts?

The main advantage of OHC or DOHC is more precise timing control. There is a little clearance in all the parts between the cam and valve with a push-rod design engine.
Another advantage is less reciprocal motion. A bit of power is to be gained by eliminating the pushrods and rockers. Pushrods must be accelerated up repeatedly. Likewise the rockers pushed up. (The valve springs return them to position). With a mechanical OHC the cam acts directly on a shim and a cup over the valve, so the valve, cup, and shim are the only things bouncing up and down. The rest of the valve train just needs to be spun. Spinning stuff continously, all else being equal, takes less power than repeatedly bouncing them up against spring pressure. OHC or dohc, is the perfect solution and does pretty well minimize the reciprocal stuff. And the less reciprocal stuff going on, the more potential for higher engine RPM's too.

I am a big believer that only a new pair of cylinder heads is what will take the viper to the next level. Maybe we would be 2 sec. ahead of the ZR1 per lap and not 2 behind like on the magazine test(for the ones that care about that, not me).

 

[mnc2886]

V10lover--

Look, we get it. You want a DOHC engine. You won't get one with a Viper. Sorry.

Secondly, the idea that the engine would grow in weight by only 50 lbs is absurd. It would be over 100 lbs for sure. No way around it.

Third of all, it isn't over coming the 100 lbs that hurts the most. It is the following two consequences that do;
--1) You have a taller, wider engine. This changes the center of gravity of a already perfectly balanced, well handling car. It isn't just 100 lbs, it is 100 lbs (that torques and doesn't sit still) taking up more space.
--2) When you have a taller, wider engine that you wish to stuff into a Viper, you will lose the lines, proportions, and design characteristics that everyone here fell in love with. Say all you want about performance. A Viper is what it is for styling every bit that it is what it is for performance. People here may want a few design changes, but everyone wants the same proportions. Period.

I will concede that if all you were trying to do was have the better designed engine, then a DOHC is a better design. It does not however belong in a Viper. But, if all you wanted was the best designed power plant, then you should have been arguing to power the car with a turbine. Not a DOHC.

 

[kdaviper]

A turbine? With thrust vectoring? BUILD IT!!!

 

[Viper Grenade]

V10Hater, please sell your Viper and go get that beeeemmmmeeerrrr. You will be much happier going slower with more hp/ci.

For everyone else, it's doesn't take anything other than a guy who has worked on a DOHC and OVH engine to know a 40V DOHC V10 will not fit well, cost a **** load to develop. Why not use Fiats MULTI-AIR + DI and FI (ie: boost ) would by far be a more cost effective way to go.

800hp would be so de-tuned it wouldn't even be funny, it would possibly still make smog. A tune and a few adtermarket tweeks would have the car pushing 1100rwhp on pump gas. At that point the ACR could have 2500lbs of downforce and still be fast.

 

[Bobpantax]

I understand that Winkles is working on an anti matter fueled power source but that he is a bit stuck on downsizing and green powering the antihydrogen laser physics antimatter containment pod.

 

[ontariomystic]

Exactly Jay, That's why I try to talk to those guys here and some (Chorps) don't seem to get it. The Guy think a modern DOHC engine V8 with cubic inch around 5 liters and TI-VCT will have Throttle lag. What a funny guy. I'm gonna land my 2013 mustang GT 5 Liter keys to him so he can take it for a spin and see for himself if any lag is present in a modern DOHC engine.
The car has 3.4L LESS displacement than my 10 acr and has way more of an instant hit downlow than my viper. TI-VCT works amazing! I can also spin the engine safely to almost 8000rpm is I want to. TORQUE IS EVERYWHERE in the rpm band and so is HP. NO LAG!!

The mustang gt having more hit has more to do with gearing than engine.

 

[JAY]

V10 Lover, Most of what your describing is in the LFA Platform Toyota , if that's the case you should pursue your passion and get one ! IMO

 

[Mopar Boy]

Good lord it must be winter!! Seriously? Is this thread legit? Wow.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

I understand that Winkles is working on an anti matter fueled power source but that he is a bit stuck on downsizing and green powering the antihydrogen laser physics antimatter containment pod.

Your sources were a little behind schedule, mine told me that Winkles has just begun a project that involves harnessing the power of "dark cosmic energy"... afterall it IS the year of the black Snake.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Good lord it must be winter!! Seriously? Is this thread legit? Wow.

Must be the yearly after-Christmas, "oh crap here comes spring with nothing but rain and bad weather" depression period starting to set in?

 

[madninjaskillz]

Some clowns live in a dream world 24/7. 40V... my coptor is rofling. The guy is comparing a mid engine V12 to a front engine V10. Weight, balance, distribution etc all are drastically different. The R&D costs alone would be the same as developing a whole new car and SRT has never had that kind of money to throw at the Viper. It really is amazing what they have done on the budget given to them; putting together another world class car. Still don't like the damn headlights though. Here's another pro tip for the doubters: SRT could easily get to 800hp N/A if they weren't so constrained by the bosses at Fiat who don't want to be spanked and the current CAFE garbage; because such a package already exists.

In conclusion, what should we do to trolls? Ignore them.