Hot Tip...Buy the Gen V Collectible while you can still afford to

[Texas1]

Let the Gen V haters keep hating!!! I love mine & enjoy it more & more each day. Collectible or not it is a work of art!!!

 

[PDCjonny]

Twenty two years and counting and the original "started it all" game changing Gen 1's are up to almost 25-30K in good condition.
When is this huge groundswell of collectability going to start I'm getting old.

 

[Austin]

Then you, sir are way too overly sensitive.

Where I come from, if somebody says what are you smoking, uh ya, that's an insult.

 

[Austin]

Oh, and btw, for all of the GEN V owners whining about us making logical points, I actually love the car. I'm just a realist.

 

[Bobpantax]

I agree with Camfab. If a person asks someone "what are you smoking?', there is an implication that that person uses drugs or is thinking like someone who does. There are more polite ways to say the same thing.

But, on another note, do you have any more thoughts on what a Gen V vert or an ACR might look like. Your photoshops are always extraordinary and have been much appreciated over the years.

Then you, sir are way too overly sensitive.

 

[bushido]

The Gen 2 blue and white GTS, and the Gen 4 ACR will be the most sought after Vipers..

No way can they be compared to a FGT..

 

[Austin]

Well, people can take it as they wish, but its more just a figure of speech, IMO. I also appreciate the compliment. I've posted a few of my GEN V vert renderings here in the past, but have not done anymore in a while. I personally don't feel there will be a vert, but who knows.

I agree with Camfab. If a person asks someone "what are you smoking?', there is an implication that that person uses drugs or is thinking like someone who does. There are more polite ways to say the same thing.But, on another note, do you have any more thoughts on what a Gen V vert or an ACR might look like. Your photoshops are always extraordinary and have been much appreciated over the years.

 

[Bobpantax]

Even if SRT does not produce one, your photoshops may inspire an aftermarket modification.

Well, people can take it as they wish, but its more just a figure of speech, IMO. I also appreciate the compliment. I've posted a few of my GEN V vert renderings here in the past, but have not done anymore in a while. I personally don't feel there will be a vert, but who knows.

 

[Nine Ball]

Totally agree, its a good car, but its no FGT. FGT had low numbers, was only produced for two years, had tons of heritage behind it and EVERYONE wanted/wants an FGT. SRT is having a difficult time selling these "phenomenal cars". Just sayin', the Viper will never be FGT money or collector status; at least not for MANY (15+) years to come. And if you or anyone else believes otherwise, you're living in a fantasy world.

I love the Ford GT.

But, you do realize that they built 4,000 of them in those two years, don't you? That isn't "low numbers". It would take SRT 5 years to build that many Gen 5 Vipers. FGT's also sat around on dealership lots for several months, some over a year, after they quit building them. I was offered one at $20K off brand new back then. I should have bought it. But, they weren't exactly selling like hotcakes after the first wave of orders went through. $150K in 2005 was a lot more money than it is today.

But, I do agree that the FGT will always be more sought after by the collectors. At least in the next 20-30 yrs. But, you can never say which cars will be the million dollar collector cars in that amount of time. Those Hemi 'Cudas also sat around, and weren't as popular as the Chevelles and Camaros were. Just sayin'

 

[Austin]

I love the Ford GT.

But, you do realize that they built 4,000 of them in those two years, don't you? That isn't "low numbers". It would take SRT 5 years to build that many Gen 5 Vipers. FGT's also sat around on dealership lots for several months, some over a year, after they quit building them. I was offered one at $20K off brand new back then. I should have bought it. But, they weren't exactly selling like hotcakes after the first wave of orders went through. $150K in 2005 was a lot more money than it is today.

But, I do agree that the FGT will always be more sought after by the collectors. At least in the next 20-30 yrs. But, you can never say which cars will be the million dollar collector cars in that amount of time. Those Hemi 'Cudas also sat around, and weren't as popular as the Chevelles and Camaros were. Just sayin'

I agree. I was just saying, from the way he made it come across, he meant that this would happen in just a few short years. That is the way I interpreted it anyway. And, honestly, I didnt realize that they had made 4k FGT's over a short period. I thought I had read a lower number somewhere at one point. Either way, I still do not believe within a 10 year (+/-) span that the Viper will appreciate as much as the FGT has.

 

[Nine Ball]

I agree. I was just saying, from the way he made it come across, he meant that this would happen in just a few short years. That is the way I interpreted it anyway. And, honestly, I didnt realize that they had made 4k FGT's over a short period. I thought I had read a lower number somewhere at one point. Either way, I still do not believe within a 10 year (+/-) span that the Viper will appreciate as much as the FGT has.

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

The Gen V could rival the FGT if 1) They stop building them today. 2) Someone cracks the tuning. Just supply vs demand, there aren't that many built right now, despite weak sales.

 

[Austin]

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

The Gen V could rival the FGT if 1) They stop building them today. 2) Someone cracks the tuning. Just supply vs demand, there aren't that many built right now, despite weak sales.

Thanks for the link/info. Even though I do not currently own a GEN V, someone needing to crack the tuning is a MUST, IMO. I wont go there now though, as it has been beat to death already.

 

[Bruce H.]

Curious what percentage of prospective 2015+ Gen V buyers you all think would want to buy the car for say $100-140k and then turbo or S/C it? Are the hard-care power junkies more apt to buy a used car, or even older Viper to do this, and do you think there is a significant enough number willing to pay close to MSRP to make it worth SRT's effort to unlock the ECU on the new ones? In the Supra world people would buy used ones for half price and mod those ones instead of the original new car owners. then they get converted back to stock when they want to sell them for a decent price.

 

[HANKFAN]

Curious what percentage of prospective 2015+ Gen V buyers you all think would want to buy the car for say $100-140k and then turbo or S/C it? Are the hard-care power junkies more apt to buy a used car, or even older Viper to do this, and do you think there is a significant enough number willing to pay close to MSRP to make it worth SRT's effort to unlock the ECU on the new ones? In the Supra world people would buy used ones for half price and mod those ones instead of the original new car owners. then they get converted back to stock when they want to sell them for a decent price.

I would buy a new Gen V tomorrow if I was 100% sure that a supercharger kit would be available sometime within the next year.

 

[01viper4me]

Curious what percentage of prospective 2015+ Gen V buyers you all think would want to buy the car for say $100-140k and then turbo or S/C it? Are the hard-care power junkies more apt to buy a used car, or even older Viper to do this, and do you think there is a significant enough number willing to pay close to MSRP to make it worth SRT's effort to unlock the ECU on the new ones? In the Supra world people would buy used ones for half price and mod those ones instead of the original new car owners. then they get converted back to stock when they want to sell them for a decent price.

I see your point; however, I think the performance game has changed quite a bit since the monster supra days. If you go to a car meet, Supra's are old news regarding performance. Now people are putting twin turbo kits on Lambo's or they are tuning over 1,000hp to GTR's. Those guys with enough money no longer want to show up in a Fox Body Mustang with huge slicks on the back and just beat the competition... they want to own the latest and greatest car, boost the HP to insane numbers, and THEN beat the competition.

Take the C7 Corvette for example... 99% aren't going to be boosted to 1,000hp; however, you have tons of guys who will buy a stock C7 with aspirations (but most will never do it) of one day doing so because they see videos of LMR C7's putting down those numbers. Without the POSSIBILITY of tuning a Gen V, it certainly closes off many potential buyers. Bench Racing and Keyboard commando's may seem immature and trivial; however, when you get an army of people bragging about what a car COULD do based of what some ALREADY have done, it certainly helps drive interest to that brand.
Take for example the G4 ACR, 99.999% of those owners aren't going to take it to the Nurburgring and set a new record or even attempt it. But, when the ACR posted the record, it created a small army of Bench Racers and Keyboard command's in the Viper's favor. By unlocking the G5 and opening the tuning world to it, you will undoubtedly raise demand for the car. Just my opinion

 

[Bobpantax]

The single biggest thing they can do to increase sales is get people into the driver's seat and let them take a spirited test drive. Along with that, they need to effectively let the general public know the gen V exists. When I was at Homestead Speedway yesterday, everyone thought the car was beautiful and incredible. But even there, a few did not know the Gen V was being made and almost no one knew what a TA was. I was the only Viper there unless another one showed up after I left. Part of the problem may be that very few Gen V owners track their cars in any track environment or show their cars at a car show.

 

[Bruce H.]

That does makes sense 01... thank you. I've suspected a tuning solution might eventually be available, but knowing for certain that it will be would increase demand now, even if modding wasn't done by many. Supra desirability and value is likely much higher because of the buzz created by the monster builds that made it a 90's performance icon.

I guess I've viewed the Gen V as a performance icon from the factory that already competes with the world's best, rather than a lower performance car needing mods to get there. Case in point would be the buyer of a $52k C7 feeling a need to make his dream car feel special among a sea of pretty common C7's. I can see those buyers wanting to add power just to get up to the 600+ hp level where the Viper already is. It was appealing to me that I wouldn't need to mod the Gen V as it's already at the top of the food chain for power and road course performance that I use, but the modded Lambos and GT-R power levels will be the goal for others. The times I usually see modded cars like that is dead on the side of the track where they've reinforced my decision to keep the engine bone stock for track use, although I'd definitely look at a factory tested ECU upgrade.

Agree with you also Bob...hopefully that'll come.

 

[TitleMine]

Actually guys, I think the tide is turning. I do exotic car sales, so I've got scripts trowling all the major used car agaragators on the internet constantly. Something interesting is happening; the cars, especially the TA are starting to move. At 140,000, a re-branded Dodge is a tough sell. At $115,000 for a GTS or a TA, and sometimes as low as $95-90,000 for a GTS, the car is a bargain that rivals the C6 Z06 debut in 2006.

 

[PDCjonny]

If they can't sell NOW In the spring at huge discounted prices, it's over.

 

[Viper X]

FYI, on the "modding the Gen V" car to big power, we had a twin turbo 2013 Viper modded to about 1300 hp at that event to race one of the F-16 Jets running afterburners right from the start.

While he did not beat the Jet that day in the 3000 foot race, the car was super fast and ran great.....and you know what they say, there are cheaters and there are losers.....

If he'd had stickier rear tires (I almost brought a set for him), this car would have beaten most other "street" cars on the planet and may have beaten the F-16.

Headline, the Gen V can be modded to hell too. Not likely with the OEM computer, yet, but someone will crack it.

Dan

 

[TrackAire]

I love the Ford GT.

But, you do realize that they built 4,000 of them in those two years, don't you? That isn't "low numbers". It would take SRT 5 years to build that many Gen 5 Vipers. FGT's also sat around on dealership lots for several months, some over a year, after they quit building them. I was offered one at $20K off brand new back then. I should have bought it. But, they weren't exactly selling like hotcakes after the first wave of orders went through. $150K in 2005 was a lot more money than it is today.

But, I do agree that the FGT will always be more sought after by the collectors. At least in the next 20-30 yrs. But, you can never say which cars will be the million dollar collector cars in that amount of time. Those Hemi 'Cudas also sat around, and weren't as popular as the Chevelles and Camaros were. Just sayin'

Here are a couple of facts I've come to realize about the Ford GT.

Values really started to jump when Ray Hofman (RIP) started modding the hell out of his units and running them in the mile, breaking records in Texas, etc. This brought worldwide focus on the car. From the outside, the average car enthusiast looks at Rays FGT and thinks it's a pretty much a stock vehicle with some added hp to go over 250 mph in the standing mile. (we all know that it took many man hours and probably way over $150k in mods to get the car to that power level). But, the average potential buyer looks at the FGT and figures, hell, for $135k I can have a car that is faster than anything else that is now on the dealers floors with some easy and cheap mods. Once the demand started, it snowballed. Many foreign car buyers jumped on the wagon and many existing FGT owners started buying more to add to their collection. Add to the fact that the average FGT owner could buy a Ford offered pulley and tune and be at 650 hp for a couple of thousand dollars, it was just too easy. Those are now great bragging rights down at the next cars and coffee get together!!

The fact the the FGT is so easy to modify is a big selling point. Last fall I was storing ten Ford GTs in one of my warehouses for the FGT Owners Rally held in Sonoma, Calif. Out of the 10, I only think 1 or 2 cars had unmodified engines. Most had a pulley and tune, some larger Whipples and some were twin turbo'd. A lot of these owners are great people and I consider many of them my friends...but honestly, I don't think 98% have ever gotten on a track hard or done something like the Texas Mile where they could push the car to its real performance potential. The added hp is really just for bragging rights....and that's ok.

Many people equate the heritage of the FGT to the original racing Ford GT-40....but traditionally the Ford Shelby Mustangs and real Cobras held better values during the 2006 to 2010 time frame. So the racing heritage and history was not enough to get MSRP on the dealers lots in 2006 and 2007 when many FGT's were being heavily discounted. But apparently, performance potential is very important in today's market as reflected by the spike in FGT prices

Regardless of how great the Gen 5 is power-wise stock, how fast it is on the track, etc does not matter to a lot of buyers (98% will never use the car to its potential). They want the option to be able to mod the vehicle further than stock power levels, even though they'll never use it in real life. It's just human nature, something most marketing campaigns understand.

Cheers,
George

 

[TrackAire]

The single biggest thing they can do to increase sales is get people into the driver's seat and let them take a spirited test drive. Along with that, they need to effectively let the general public know the gen V exists. When I was at Homestead Speedway yesterday, everyone thought the car was beautiful and incredible. But even there, a few did not know the Gen V was being made and almost no one knew what a TA was. I was the only Viper there unless another one showed up after I left. Part of the problem may be that very few Gen V owners track their cars in any track environment or show their cars at a car show.

You are partially correct Bob....let them take a spirited drive on a race track. Then put their butts in the passenger seat and let a pro drive them around at full speed. That is what sells cars and opens eyes. The average car buyer has no idea what the Gen 5 is capable of on the track. It really is a waste of time trying to show any performance attributes on street....save that for the cool infotainment center, great interior, sound system, luxury features, etc. You want to sell the car, take the potential customer for a hot lap on the track!!

This is common practice by Nissan with the GTR, McLaren, Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, etc. Why SRT does not do track "experience" events is beyond me. I was fortunate to spend about 15 minutes in a Gen 5 during the SRT Access event....to bad it was in stop and go traffic....total waste of time.

When I did the SRT Experience at Laguna Seca in 2009 after buying my Viper it opened my eyes. The miniature autocross in the Nitro SRT was stupid. The driving around following instructors around on the track in Challengers, 300 SRT's and Chargers was ok. Being driven in a Gen 4 convertible around the track by a pro (or at least an extremely talented driver) in the rain was freaking incredible. It really showed how fast a Viper could go, even when the track was wet. That lap alone was worth my time to go to the SRT Experience and solidified that I made the right decision in purchasing my Gen 4. If I hadn't bought a Gen 4 at that point, I would have definitely started looking to get into one.

Cheers,
George

 

[Nine Ball]

Curious what percentage of prospective 2015+ Gen V buyers you all think would want to buy the car for say $100-140k and then turbo or S/C it? Are the hard-care power junkies more apt to buy a used car, or even older Viper to do this, and do you think there is a significant enough number willing to pay close to MSRP to make it worth SRT's effort to unlock the ECU on the new ones? In the Supra world people would buy used ones for half price and mod those ones instead of the original new car owners. then they get converted back to stock when they want to sell them for a decent price.

I run around with owners of some of the fastest street cars in the country. Many of them have plenty of extra cash to buy toys. They tend to buy the latest and greatest models of any given favorite make, as long as they can modify their cars to be as fast (or faster) than the current generation they own.

I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford two Vipers, which is why I bought my Gen 5. If I wouldn't have been able to afford the Gen 5, I wouldn't have sold my Gen 3 to buy one. My Gen 3 suits me better, because I can modify it. I'm at over 1300 crank HP with this car, and still use the factory computer! Can't do that with a Gen 4 or 5, which is why I never "upgraded" to the Gen 4. It looks identical to my Gen 3, but with far less modification potential. I know there are numerous Viper owners out there that won't even consider a Viper that they can't modify to be faster than the one they currently own.

If you need further proof of this, look at how many Corvette guys dump their car for the newest model, because they simply want the newest model. But, only because they can modify the new model to suit them. Before the ZR1 came out, some naysayers said that nobody would spend $125K on a Corvette, and that very few would modify them further. Wrong. Big-time wrong. Most of the ones around here have at least 100hp more than the factory offered them with. Because it is simple.

 

[Bruce H.]

Thanks guys. I totally get it now, and although it's not something I'd do for my track use, I can see modability is a big benefit to the community, and really everyone who owns one. Anything that helps profile the car is a very good thing, and the Gen V could stand to get a little more attention!

 

[Nine Ball]

For further proof, look at how well the 2006 Viper coupes are holding value, compared to all the other Gen 3 and non-ACR Gen 4 cars. 2006 being the only recent coupe that is easy to modify.

 

[Bobpantax]

It may not be fair to compare GM's view of applicable regulatory law with Fiat/Chrysler's view of same in the context of aftermarket modifiability considering the recent revelations regarding GMs ignition switch issue and the twelve known deaths that it caused. For those of you who have not kept up with this, the fault in the ignition switch, which was known since 2001, resulted in the airbags being turned off.

I would rather buy a safe, less modifiable car, from an OEM that I can trust than a car that may be more modifiable from one who I cannot trust. The GM scandal is far worse than the alleged Toyota scandal.

When you put this together with the fact that the government lost more than $10 billion dollars on the GM bailout, it is infuriating.

Let's see if GM steps up to the plate and, if so, how much they offer the people they killed.

Sorry in advance for the diversion off topic. Bruce, feel free to have this post deleted if you want to.

 

[Bruce H.]

It's all good, Bob. The original topic was covered, the modability is an aspect of Viper collectiblity and value that I hadn't fully appreciated, and the possibility of discovering faulty components can certainly affect collectibility as well. It's just a wonder more car don't have them. Hopefully the Viper won't.

 

[Bobpantax]

Modifiability is a factor but note that once modified, no one should expect to get their money back regardless of how well the mods are done; the mileage of the car and the condition of the car. The resale market for modded cars is small.

 

[Nine Ball]

When you put this together with the fact that the government lost more than $10 billion dollars on the GM bailout, it is infuriating.

Bob, you are looking at the subject with a narrow understanding of the economic factors related to the GM/Chrysler bailout. While I'm not necessarily a fan of those either, I do understand the economic domino effect and how much it would have cost the US taxpayers had either of those massive companies failed. Please read this article and gain a broader perspective. We (USA) spent $10B in order to avoid losing $105B. That is the big picture.

http://www.cargroup.org/?module=News&event=View&newsID=70

Also, the GM ignition switch recall has nothing to do with tuning the engine control module timing/fuel maps.

Quit trying to make political statements about this simple technical request. We simply wish to be able to modify our $100,000+ cars, period. No discussion needed.

 

[ViperSmith]

A faulty ignition switch as a reason to defend a locked PCM?

lol, lord