How do I avoid swirl marks in the paint?

[gen2lover]

Love your videos Junkman! PLEASE make more!

 

[Viper ACR]

Great job thanks for sharing

 

[Asp Man]

Great info. Thanks, Junkman.
2 bucket wash is a great tip for those that wet wash, I'll start doing that for my DDs, but I haven't wet washed my GST in years.
Who'd have thought that a post started by lanceromance would be so useful?!

 

[kcobean]

I was hoping that you guys wouldn't hold that against me! I do enjoy the time I get to spend at Atlanta Motor Speedway with the Vettes and Vipers every year.

Jman, I have a question for ya. I'm trying to get some swirl marks out of the paint on my new ACR. I'm using Meguiars polishing compound, but it almost seems not quite abrasive enough, as I've gone over one panel several times and the swirls are better but not gone. Should I move to something more abrasive, apply more pressure to the polisher (a Griot's random-orbital), increase the speed of the orbiter, or just keep repeating what I'm doing until I get the surface corrected?

Thanks!

 

[Junkman2008]

Love your videos Junkman! PLEASE make more!

I have quite a few in progress right now. Stay tuned!

Jman, I have a question for ya. I'm trying to get some swirl marks out of the paint on my new ACR. I'm using Meguiars polishing compound, but it almost seems not quite abrasive enough, as I've gone over one panel several times and the swirls are better but not gone. Should I move to something more abrasive, apply more pressure to the polisher (a Griot's random-orbital), increase the speed of the orbiter, or just keep repeating what I'm doing until I get the surface corrected?

Thanks!

In order to thoroughly answer your question, I would need the following.

1. A short video of you working a 2'by 2' area on your car. I need to see what your technique looks like. I'm looking for the speed at which your work, the speed that the polisher is set at and how much product that you are using per application.

2. I also need to know which Meguiar's product you are using. I need the exact name, as it is printed on the label.

3. Lastly, I need to know what pad you are using and who's the manufacturer. These things are a must before I can offer you a solution.

I can tell you this. Applying too much pressure or/and using too much product renders the machine you have relatively useless. If you watch my videos, you can see that I hardly use that much product at all, and I also allow the polisher to do the work.

Get back with me with those items so that we can get you on track.

 

[kcobean]

I have quite a few in progree right now. Stay tuned!



In order to thoroughly answer your question, I would need the following.

1. A short video of you working a 2'by 2' area on your car. I need to see what your technique looks like. I'm looking for the speed at which your work, the speed that the polisher is set at and how much product that you are using per application.

2. I also need to know which Meguiar's product you are using. I need the exact name, as it is printed on the label.

3. Lastly, I need to know what pad you are using and who's the manufacturer. These things are a must before I can offer you a solution.

I can tell you this. Applying too much pressure or/and using too much product renders the machine you have relatively useless. If you watch my videos, you can see that I hardly use that much product at all, and I also allow the polisher to do the work.

Get back with me with those items so that we can get you on track.

Thanks Jman, I'll put something up on youtube with all the info you've requested. This paint correction stuff is definitely an art, and I don't want to end up doing more harm than good to my car's finish.

 

[Junkman2008]

It's very hard to do harm to the finish with the PC-7424XP, when used with half an ounce of common since. That's the great thing about that polisher and the novice detailer. There is a bunch of room for error. As long as you don't go off the deep end and buy some 3M super duty 10 grit polish, crank that polisher to 6 and use the whole bottle on your hood alone, you should be okay.

 

[kcobean]

It's very hard to do harm to the finish with the PC-7424XP, when used with half an ounce of common since. That's the great thing about that polisher and the novice detailer. There is a bunch of room for error. As long as you don't go off the deep end and buy some 3M super duty 10 grit polish, crank that polisher to 6 and use the whole bottle on your hood alone, you should be okay.

I'm running my Griot's random-orbital polisher on the recommended "beginner" speed, and the Meguiars stuff I'm using is the first item on this page, the "Ultimate Compound":

Car Care Products: Car Waxes to Leather Cleaners, Meguiar's the Leader in Car and Surface Care since 1901

in conjunction with the Griot's polishing pad:

6" Orange Foam Polishing Pad - Griot's Garage

I do as they recommend by "buttering" the pad with a thin layer of polish, placing the pad on the surface of the car and then working a 2'x2' section up/down then side/side as they instruct in their tutorial until the polish is almost gone.

I'll get video up hopefully this weekend of me working a nice easy area: the roof.

 

[AFL in NJ]

Dear Junkman2008,

I was a Corvette-man too, until I could finally afford one after my divorce...but alas the sellers did not like my idea of a reasonable price. I did find a Viper owner willing to sell for my "unreasonable price" and now I'm a Viper guy....we'll hold out hope you'll get a Viper soon!

Regards,
Aaron

 

[Junkman2008]

I'm running my Griot's random-orbital polisher on the recommended "beginner" speed, and the Meguiars stuff I'm using is the first item on this page, the "Ultimate Compound":

Car Care Products: Car Waxes to Leather Cleaners, Meguiar's the Leader in Car and Surface Care since 1901

in conjunction with the Griot's polishing pad:

6" Orange Foam Polishing Pad - Griot's Garage

I do as they recommend by "buttering" the pad with a thin layer of polish, placing the pad on the surface of the car and then working a 2'x2' section up/down then side/side as they instruct in their tutorial until the polish is almost gone.

I'll get video up hopefully this weekend of me working a nice easy area: the roof.

Okay, I'm seeing part of your problem already. You're using that Meguiar's OTC junk. We need to get you some of the professional Meguiar's product. To start, you need some M105 and some M205. You need them BOTH. If any of the Meguiar's products you use don't say Mirror Glaze on the label, toss it in the trash. I use Meguiar's too, but never their OTC stuff. I only use their professional line. It works as advertised.

Secondly, you need some better pads. The pad choices that Griot's offers is kinda poor IMHO. You should go with either the Lake Country or the more simpler selection, Adam's. Griot's doesn't appear to offer a pad that you will be able to use M205 on so we need to get you a white pad. If you buy the orange and white pads from Adam's, you will see better results. Buy 2 orange pads and 1 white pad. That will set you up for a lot better results when using the M105/205 combination.

I await your video!

Dear Junkman2008,

I was a Corvette-man too, until I could finally afford one after my divorce...but alas the sellers did not like my idea of a reasonable price. I did find a Viper owner willing to sell for my "unreasonable price" and now I'm a Viper guy....we'll hold out hope you'll get a Viper soon!

Regards,
Aaron

lol! I know a lot of guys with Corvettes who also have Vipers. There must be some similarities between the two for this to be so wide spread. I have to admit, I'm not much into the performance aspect of today's sports cars, I honestly just like the way they look. That was the main reason I bought my Vette. Now when talking about classic muscle cars, the louder and nastier, the better!

 

[kcobean]

Okay, I'm seeing part of your problem already. You're using that Meguiar's OTC junk. We need to get you some of the professional Meguiar's product. To start, you need some M105 and some M205. You need them BOTH. If any of the Meguiar's products you use don't say Mirror Glaze on the label, toss it in the trash. I use Meguiar's too, but never their OTC stuff. I only use their professional line. It works as advertised.

Secondly, you need some better pads. The pad choices that Griot's offers is kinda poor IMHO. You should go with either the Lake Country or the more simpler selection, Adam's. Griot's doesn't appear to offer a pad that you will be able to use M205 on so we need to get you a white pad. If you buy the orange and white pads from Adam's, you will see better results. Buy 2 orange pads and 1 white pad. That will set you up for a lot better results when using the M105/205 combination.

I await your video!

Thanks for the input Junkman! I was wondering why I was buffing away at this thing, and nothing was happening (well, it was getting a *little* better, but still lots of micro-fine scratches that were very visible particularly under fluorescent shop light.)

Out of curiosity, what is it about the Griot's pads that makes them a poor selection? Will the Adams or Lake Country pads work on my Griots polisher? i.e. velcro backed, etc.?

 

[Junkman2008]

Thanks for the input Junkman! I was wondering why I was buffing away at this thing, and nothing was happening (well, it was getting a *little* better, but still lots of micro-fine scratches that were very visible particularly under fluorescent shop light.)

Out of curiosity, what is it about the Griot's pads that makes them a poor selection? Will the Adams or Lake Country pads work on my Griots polisher? i.e. velcro backed, etc.?

When I was checking the Griot's site, I could only find the orange foam pad. I couldn't find out how aggressive that pad was (I'm assuming it is a cutting pad), nor could I find any other foam pads. You need at least three foam pads (to keep it basic). A heavy cut, a light cut and a finishing pad. Adam's has 4 when you include the extra heavy cut although I seldom use that one. Lake Country has about 8 or 9 which I find is a little over kill but that's better than not having enough. That's why I recommended them or Adam's.

The pads use the same hook and loop system that your Griot's polisher uses. Keep in mind that your Griot's polisher is SAFE, and that limits how fast it will remove damage. You can get a better polisher, but the better it is, the ability to do damage increases dramatically. So you are not going to be removing heavy damage fast, and there may be some damage that you will not be able to remove if it is bad enough. I don't know because I can't see your paint.

There's nothing wrong with safe. It's a lot cheaper than repainting your car.

 

[kcobean]

When I was checking the Griot's site, I could only find the orange foam pad. I couldn't find out how aggressive that pad was (I'm assuming it is a cutting pad), nor could I find any other foam pads. You need at least three foam pads (to keep it basic). A heavy cut, a light cut and a finishing pad. Adam's has 4 when you include the extra heavy cut although I seldom use that one. Lake Country has about 8 or 9 which I find is a little over kill but that's better than not having enough. That's why I recommended them or Adam's.

The pads use the same hook and loop system that your Griot's polisher uses. Keep in mind that your Griot's polisher is SAFE, and that limits how fast it will remove damage. You can get a better polisher, but the better it is, the ability to do damage increases dramatically. So you are not going to be removing heavy damage fast, and there may be some damage that you will not be able to remove if it is bad enough. I don't know because I can't see your paint.

There's nothing wrong with safe. It's a lot cheaper than repainting your car.

There is no serious damage on the car (not like that keyed Hemi Charger you had kids working on in your pictures), it's all mild surface scratching, but some of it looks like it was the result of a poor wet-sanding job at the factory, so I think what I'm really having to do is finish the job they started, only in a few areas though.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Kcobean -we have a member (Eric-Thompson Racing) that sells Adams stuff, I know because I just ordered some stuff from him, including Adams 4-pads, and some other stuff.
Steve

 

[Phun70]

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And what did you do to get those results may I ask?

 

[Brian_Brice]

And what did you do to get those results may I ask?

I machine polished the car leveling thousands of defects.

 

[Phun70]

WOW Junkman, you're a ****ing artist!!! That is beautiful work my friend.

 

[Junkman2008]

There is no serious damage on the car (not like that keyed Hemi Charger you had kids working on in your pictures), it's all mild surface scratching, but some of it looks like it was the result of a poor wet-sanding job at the factory, so I think what I'm really having to do is finish the job they started, only in a few areas though.

Okay, I'll wait for you video so that I can see your technique. I just spent part of the day, showing someone else how to get rid of the scratches in their car.

 

[kcobean]

Okay, I'll wait for you video so that I can see your technique. I just spent part of the day, showing someone else how to get rid of the scratches in their car.

Thanks! In the meantime, do you have a vid showing YOUR technique? I can at least tell you if I'm doing something similar to that.

For what it's worth, the technique I'm using, I pretty much learned from this video:

Videos/2010_10765_how-orbital.flv

 

[Junkman2008]

Thanks! In the meantime, do you have a vid showing YOUR technique? I can at least tell you if I'm doing something similar to that.

For what it's worth, the technique I'm using, I pretty much learned from this video:

Videos/2010_10765_how-orbital.flv

You haven't seen all those videos of me working the polisher??? You need to check out all my videos here. I made them stickies so that they would be easy to find. Another thing that people forget to do is read the replies. Sprinkled throughout the thread are very good questions that I have answered, which may also be some of the same questions you may have. Give the entire thread a read. All of them! Since you use Meguiar's products, every time you hear me say Swirl & Haze Remover, you should think M105. When I say Fine Machine Polish, you should think M205. The process is EXACTLY the same for both product lines, only the names of the compounds are different.

As for that video you sent me, that's not you! I understand that you learned from that video but I want to see YOU do it. Like anything, when you first learn something new that requires motion (golf is a real good example), watching and mimicking Tiger Woods and actually shooting a 68 the first time you play is TOTALLY two different things!

I want you to show me exactly how you do it. Don't change up your technique because I'm going to watch, do what you normally do. If you don't show me exactly what you do, then the advice I give you will be worthless. Somewhat like lying to the doctor and still expecting him to come up with the correct diagnosis. I'm willing to teach if you're willing to learn!

 

[EFI-1]

I use Microfiber everything and nothing but the best detailing stuff with tons of detail spray at all times and I still end up with fine scratches. Point in fact, I don't think you'll be able to avoid it. Get a good detailer or learn how to buff a car properly and you can mitigate your problem.

Gotta give Turbowax some play next time....hear nothing but good stuff about them.

 

[Junkman2008]

I use Microfiber everything and nothing but the best detailing stuff with tons of detail spray at all times and I still end up with fine scratches. Point in fact, I don't think you'll be able to avoid it. Get a good detailer or learn how to buff a car properly and you can mitigate your problem.

Gotta give Turbowax some play next time....hear nothing but good stuff about them.

I can understand your frustration but I have to totally disagree with your mindset. For example, if a guy claimed to have extensive knowledge about sports cars because that is all he has ever owned, you would be inclined to listen to him. However, if you found out that all the sports cars that he has owned were Toyota MR2's, you'd laugh him off the stage.

My point being that although you say that you have have taken what appears to be the correct approach to paint car, your technique and products could be totally wrong. Yes, you will pick up a stray scratch here or there but it will be nothing that will frustrate as you appear to be, and to fix that damage takes seconds. Microfiber towels for example are NOT all the same. The ones that you buy in places like Costco, Sam's Club and Auto Zone are some of the worst, pieces of crap towels that you can run across your paint. Anything microfiber coming out of China is as brutal as using a shop towel on your paint (the absolute best microfiber comes out of Korea). Also, there's the proper time and technique to wiping on your car and then there's the IMPROPER time and technique. Most guys wipe on their cars at absolutely the wrong time and they use a totally screwed up technique.

I have put together some videos that explain how you should remove dust or dirt from your car. I not only explain how it should be done but I also explain why (because if it doesn't make sense to go through the trouble I do, why would you?). Have a watch and see if you are guilty of any of the no-no's that I define in these videos.

Waterless Wash - Part 1


Waterless Wash - Part 2


Waterless Wash - Part 3


Waterless wash - Part 4



The Junkman

 

[EFI-1]

Dupe post

 

[EFI-1]

I can understand your frustration but I have to totally disagree with your mindset. For example, if a guy claimed to have extensive knowledge about sports cars because that is all he has ever owned, you would be inclined to listen to him. However, if you found out that all the sports cars that he has owned were Toyota MR2's, you'd laugh him off the stage.

My point being that although you say that you have have taken what appears to be the correct approach to paint car, your technique and products could be totally wrong. Yes, you will pick up a stray scratch here or there but it will be nothing that will frustrate as you appear to be, and to fix that damage takes seconds. Microfiber towels for example are NOT all the same. The ones that you buy in places like Costco, Sam's Club and Auto Zone are some of the worst, pieces of crap towels that you can run across your paint. Anything microfiber coming out of China is as brutal as using a shop towel on your paint (the absolute best microfiber comes out of Korea). Also, there's the proper time and technique to wiping on your car and then there's the IMPROPER time and technique. Most guys wipe on their cars at absolutely the wrong time and they use a totally screwed up technique.

I have put together some videos that explain how you should remove dust or dirt from your car. I not only explain how it should be done but I also explain why (because if it doesn't make sense to go through the trouble I do, why would you?). Have a watch and see if you are guilty of any of the no-no's that I define in these videos.

Waterless Wash - Part 1


Waterless Wash - Part 2


Waterless Wash - Part 3


Waterless wash - Part 4



The Junkman

Thanks for the post Junkman. You are no doubt a master of your craft. Your info is duly noted. I have used nothing but Adam's stuff since 2003. I formerly owned a company called EFI Unlimited that specialized (at least in part) in automotive detailing/customization. While most who see my cars almost always comment that they are baffled on how I keep them scratch/swirl free, the truth is they are only mostly scratch free. Chalk it up to the sticky air, but dirt/dust is particularly bothersome here in Hawaii and can wreak havoc on your clear. Add to that the frequent on/off of my car covers and you get a less than optimal disposition. I admit to being hopeful that your posted vids offer me some insight to a better method, though I will be prepared to fire up my buffer again in a year or so when it's time to de-swirl/scratch my car.

BTW, Adam and I go back a while. I was his first Hawaii distributor and helped push Adam's quite a bit online for many years.

Aloha, Dave

 

[Junkman2008]

Thanks for the post Junkman. You are no doubt a master of your craft. Your info is duly noted. I have used nothing but Adam's stuff since 2003. I formerly owned a company called EFI Unlimited that specialized (at least in part) in automotive detailing/customization. While most who see my cars almost always comment that they are baffled on how I keep them scratch/swirl free, the truth is they are only mostly scratch free. Chalk it up to the sticky air, but dirt/dust is particularly bothersome here in Hawaii and can wreak havoc on your clear. Add to that the frequent on/off of my car covers and you get a less than optimal disposition. I admit to being hopeful that your posted vids offer me some insight to a better method, though I will be prepared to fire up my buffer again in a year or so when it's time to de-swirl/scratch my car.

BTW, Adam and I go back a while. I was his first Hawaii distributor and helped push Adam's quite a bit online for many years.

Aloha, Dave

Thanks Dave, problems with dust aside, you live in heaven!

I think you'll find some interesting info in those videos, but the funny thing is, it is nothing more than common sense. You know this stuff, but you probably didn't think about it from the perspective that I show in those videos. Once you watch them, you'll say, "I knew that!"

 

[EFI-1]

Junk, watched the vids. Very informative and well presented. We share very similar technique. Aside from using only the folded edge of the towel, almost identical. Even wiping my cars down, I use minimal pressure on my clean MF towels. I will need to try the Waterless carwash. I have been using the detail spray all the time and perhaps that is my problem. Thank you for taking the time to make the vids and explain your processes.

 

[Junkman2008]

Hey, thanks for watching!

 

[MADMAX]

It's very hard to do harm to the finish with the PC-7424XP, when used with half an ounce of common since. That's the great thing about that polisher and the novice detailer. There is a bunch of room for error. As long as you don't go off the deep end and buy some 3M super duty 10 grit polish, crank that polisher to 6 and use the whole bottle on your hood alone, you should be okay.

I've gotta agree with you 100% JMan - using a dual action machine will provide ONLY good results (with the correct products you talk about above and the correct cleaning and machining techniques).

After building up enough confidence to go anywhere near my beloved snakes paintwork with anything harder than a sponge, I've just started doing my own machine detailing achieving great improvements to her appearance.

"How much detailing experience do I have?" At this high standard I'd say I've got about 3-weeks experience and most of that was spent deciding 'what' products to buy - it's easy - it's a joy - in fact, I'm gonna get my 9-yr old lad to polisher her next time - bringing even more enjoyment as I sit and watch with a beer!

 

[Junkman2008]

What you will find is that over time, your technique will improve and your end results will reflect that. There will also come a point where you look at guys who try to duplicate the results of a polisher by hand, as if something is loose upstairs! It is hard for someone who has never used an orbital polisher to fathom how easy it is, especially with all the horror stories they've heard about rotary polishers. Add to that the satisfaction you will get from having your baby detailed CORRECTLY, and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

You're well on your way man!

 

[kcobean]

Alrighty Junkman, here you go....a (not so quick) video showing me working on the top of my LF fender, which is undoubtly the worst spot on my car.

I look forward to your feedback.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir1VocZj5UU[/media]