How long until you until comfortable with your GTS

[Sfengineer]

Hi all, I finally got my dream car, a 2000 GTS, but there's been something that's been on my mind that i can't shake.

I've owned my 2000 GTS for about 4 months now, but I've always felt a bit uncomfortable pushing the car towards it's performance limits. Is this something everyone has when they first get theirs? Maybe it's the articles I read saying the car will basically kill you if you don't respect it, etc, but there's always been a bit of reservation when driving it.

I thought a good way to get over this was to take the car to the track. Fast forward a few months and I've been to the track with it three times now, and on what was supposed to be my fourth time out, I took my 2011 V6 Camaro instead. The car felt a lot slower, as it's a V6 and has a good 600 lbs on my GTS, but when i finished the first few sessions, I was really speechless when i found out I was consistently lapping about 10 seconds faster in the Camaro. Spec wise, the camaro is 312 hp, 3850 lbs, 245 all seasons on 20s vs my Viper at ~470 hp, 3400 lbs, and 285/345 super sports. I've got a lot of track days under my belt, so I doubt it has anything do do with my skill.

Has anyone else had the phenomena or is it just me? How long did it take to overcome it?

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Since it does not have any nannies as you know it is best to schedule a track weekend with a good school that allows you to bring your car and spend time with a good instructor. He will bring you up slowly so you get the real feel of the car, torque, etc. You will get your comfort level up soon by doing this. Its all about seat time in a controlled environment.

 

[Fatboy 18]

You may find the suspension needs adjusting, the stock Koni shocks can be adjusted but you have to remove the springs to do this. I think when the cars left the factory they were on the softest setting. I know I need to stiffen up my car (also a 2000 GTS) There are also shims which adjust the camber can be removed on the front wishbones for track driving

Im just cautious on the gear shifting, the viper does not seem to like snappy gear changes. And stock brakes are not exactly track friendly.

 

[DrTaco]

In my opinion you should really never get "comfortable" in this kinda car. But, I know whatcha mean. I wouldn't worry too much, you've only owned the car for 4 mos so I would just give it some time. It'll happen. Besides, I got into a really bad accident with my old supercharged Cobra in an intersection years and years go. No matter what, everytime I go through an intersection, I still cringe a little and slow down. There's always a part of me that breathes a sigh of relief when I pull the Viper back into the garage after a run, don't think I'll ever shake that one.

 

[denniskgb]

Nothing wrong with being cautious. When things happen they happen very fast. You are on public roads and you always have to expect unexpected. Whats the point of pushing your car to its performance limits unless you are on the track. agree 100% get an instructor and spend some time on the track. i will be doing the same thing this spring or summer.

 

[K930]

Picked up my 2000 GTS last August, and I felt exactly the same.

The previous owner's nugget of wisdom was "if it's dry and the front wheels are pointed straight, you're good to go.....if they're not or it's wet, beeeee careful!".

 

[Viper98912]

You never get used to it. I thought VOI would help me, and it did, but only in the short term. Once you stop driving it that hard and regularly, you become a wimp again.

 

[plumcrazy]

a wise man (bill pemberton) told me, as soon as you are comfortable in a viper, youre gonna wreck it.

 

[Bird325]

Do some track time with an instructor that KNOWS the Viper. It handles differently than most cars that ever appear on the track! Get in at least ONE HPDE weekend in the car, not your Camero. By the end of the weekend, you'll find your limits ... probably way before the car hits ITS limits. The Gen II GTS is just TOO MUCH fun on the track and it gives you valuable experience on the street. I always worry about the off road moments on the track, but after a while, you just kind of get used to it. It's those moments, if you think about what happened and analyze it, that makes you a better, smoother driver each time. If you're doing 10 seconds faster in your Camero, you haven't even touched on the Viper's potential.

 

[Allan]

The Viper is a car that you have to 'learn' how to drive close to the limit. Takes a lot of seat time, instruction from people that understand the car, and a touch of insanity. If you get to where you are lapping at near the car's potential, there won't be many other cars that will keep up. The exception will be non street legal race cars, ZR1, and the like. Then your Camaro will seem slow and boring by comparison. -no disrespect intended, I lap my C6 every once in a while for variety, and find it to be very lame compared to the Viper. The Viper demands respect from a skilled handler, but rewards it's driver like no other car can. You have an unbelievable monster (with practice). Don't give up on it.

 

[Timnineside]

Do some track time with an instructor that KNOWS the Viper. It handles differently than most cars that ever appear on the track! Get in at least ONE HPDE weekend in the car, not your Camero. By the end of the weekend, you'll find your limits ... probably way before the car hits ITS limits. The Gen II GTS is just TOO MUCH fun on the track and it gives you valuable experience on the street. I always worry about the off road moments on the track, but after a while, you just kind of get used to it. It's those moments, if you think about what happened and analyze it, that makes you a better, smoother driver each time. If you're doing 10 seconds faster in your Camero, you haven't even touched on the Viper's potential.

This^^^^ Don't waste time or money on ANYTHING else until you have had a instructor in the car. Learning good driving habits and lines is key!!

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

a wise man (bill pemberton) told me, as soon as you are comfortable in a viper, youre gonna wreck it.

Sound advice.

 

[Sfengineer]

Wow guys, thanks for the replies! I'm glad I'm not the only one who's was a bit cautious about the car when they first got it. In terms of tracking, I've been to two events through Hooked on Driving that had instructors that rode shotgun the whole time and I learned a ton from them. The one thing that was missing was their seat time in a Viper - I figured this after watching them search endlessly for the seatbelt by the door. Almost all of the instructors there were from a Miata background, I'm still keeping an eye out for one with Viper experience.

K930 - great advice for keeping the wheel straight when the throttle goes down!

 

[REDSLED]

You need to run wih this group. Many of us track our Vipers with this group. There will be about 6 Vipers at the Buttonwillow event next weekend. 4 of the 6 drivers are also instructors with this group. PM me for more detailed info. Tracking a Miata and Viper are completely different. Best of luck.
http://www.ncracing.org/

 

[Sfengineer]

RedSled - I'll actually be at Buttonwillow that weekend, but with my Camaro (wife is driving it too, don't trust her with the Viper). I'll PM you. I wasn't sure if the dynamics, other than power and weight, would be that different between a viper and Miata. Makes since...

 

[REDSLED]

RedSled - I'll actually be at Buttonwillow that weekend, but with my Camaro (wife is driving it too, don't trust her with the Viper). I'll PM you. I wasn't sure if the dynamics, other than power and weight, would be that different between a viper and Miata. Makes since...

A Miata is a momentum car. Viper, not so much. The power and weight are obvious. Braking, turn in, throttle steering, the list goes on and on. Hustling a Gen II Viper around the track takes work although there is nothing like it. I will be at Buttonwillow next weekend. Garage #4. Feel free to stop by and say Hi. see you there.

 

[Solid Red 98]

"Comfort" comes with seat time. That familiarity comes when you don't let too much time elapse between drives. Respect power in any car, but Vipers have seemingly depthless torque that comes along with the power; and it can change upward in cold temperatures at the same time tires have less grip on the cold road. You just have to use good judgment all the time, so in that respect you can't relax into autopilot. Never get sloppy, or go driving when your not feeling sharp. In their stock form Vipers are good handlers, but they are known to bite the unsuspecting driver. Just be systematic and patient as you get to know your car, especially through the twisties. There is no need to be afraid unless you are exceeding your limits as well as the car's. I get the most stress from sharing the road with an endless parade of dazed and distracted bozo's. Above all, enjoy yur snake....the car is like no other.

 

[VJR3]

Sticky tires saves cars.............look into getting some semi-slicks or even some used R compounds...............

.................and yes definitly get an instructor that knows vipers

 

[opnwide]

The GTS will haul but once you learn to drive. My old instructor and patient has the track record at TWS in a "stock" viper. I can pull away from most Porsche GT3s (unless a really good driver is behind the wheel) during the PCA events, but this guy still smokes me by about 10 seconds a lap! and he was on Michelin PS2s. This puts him with most ACRs in the GT1 class. Yeah, he is now racing semi-pro with a real race team. I would love to be able to ditch my cup tires for some SSs and embarrass a new ACR.

Anyway, You've got a handful there. Take your time learning to drive it.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Just a matter of familiarity....the Camaro shouldn't even be close to the GTS. The instructor comments are wise but its all about seat time in the Viper. My lap time at Road Atlanta has come down almost 20 seconds (on a 2.5 mi loop) since I started years ago.

 

[ViperSmith]

While I don't have one yet (waiting on my damned Gen V), but after reading this site for the last year, I think it is best to treat the Viper like a firearm - always assume it is loaded, even when you KNOW it is empty. Never get complacent.

 

[ultradriver10000]

10 seconds, stop being a woman.

 

[opnwide]

I think you should stick with Michelin ps2s or SSs. The cup tires and other track tires break away more suddenly. You will probably go a little faster with them, but you'll also end up in the dirt a lot more frequently as you won't be experienced enough to "catch it" when you're going all out. Drifting your car at 8 tenths is a lot different that going balls to the wall with no room for error if you start spinning.

Remember my ex instructor ran 1:48 at TWS with new PS2s in a "stock" '98 with stoptech brakes. I can drop names if anyone doubts this. My best is 1:57 with Sport Cups, 1:59 flat on PS2s. Your street tires are not holding you back like you think they are.

The big dif IMHO is that the PS2s start to go away after 10 laps and I can get 15+ (depending on track temps) on the Cups before they get greasy. Also, people (including myself) try to get too many heat cycles out of the street tires before retiring them. I used to buy my instructor's old PS2s and put them on my car because what was trash to him was my treasure.
It would be nice to see a "street" time trial event come back using tires with treadwear in the 200 area. These new 60 tread wear Pirellis are crazy expensive! How about if Kumho starting making the big XS Ecsta 200 tread wear tires and sponsoring NARRA. Those tires would be only $300 each instead of $600-700.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

I read once that 30% of all Vipers are wreaked in the first year of ownership. Better safe than sorry.
I also think you may put more value in the 2000Viper than the 2011 V6 camero and therefore push it a little harder. Drive with an experienced GTS owner around the track and you will see how fast they are but you have to work it.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

I read once that 30% of all Vipers are wreaked in the first year of ownership. Better safe than sorry.
I also think you may put more value in the 2000Viper than the 2011 V6 camero and therefore push it a little harder. Drive with an experienced GTS owner around the track and you will see how fast they are but you have to work it.

I had a great Viper driver (the incomparable PMUM) instruct me in my 2000 it blew my mind what he could do with my Viper with me as a passenger, now I'm an instructor, find one to show you the car's limits even if it is just as a passenger. I remember when I met Redsled the first time at Buttonwillow when he had his Gen 1 and he wouldn't track it that day. That ended quickly he is now one of the more accomplished Viper drivers, hitch a ride with him and hang on you will be amazed at how fast you'll go and how it's done.

 

[C-Note]

They were flagging Gen4 ACR's out of my way at the last VOI. A GTS can handle great if you know how to wrestle it. I found myself a lot more comfortable in my GTS after some simple auto crossing. I know it doesn't sound like much to auto cross but most auto cross runs are in a wide open lot and you can push your car all the way to its handling limits. Once I knew exactly where those limits were I was far more willing to push the car on a real track.

I don't subscribe to the old adage of being in a straight line before you hit the gas, what the hell is the point of that, it takes all of the fun out of the corners

 

[SoCal Rebell]

I think you should stick with Michelin ps2s or SSs. The cup tires and other track tires break away more suddenly. You will probably go a little faster with them, but you'll also end up in the dirt a lot more frequently as you won't be experienced enough to "catch it" when you're going all out. Drifting your car at 8 tenths is a lot different that going balls to the wall with no room for error if you start spinning.

Remember my ex instructor ran 1:48 at TWS with new PS2s in a "stock" '98 with stoptech brakes. I can drop names if anyone doubts this. My best is 1:57 with Sport Cups, 1:59 flat on PS2s. Your street tires are not holding you back like you think they are.

The big dif IMHO is that the PS2s start to go away after 10 laps and I can get 15+ (depending on track temps) on the Cups before they get greasy. Also, people (including myself) try to get too many heat cycles out of the street tires before retiring them. I used to buy my instructor's old PS2s and put them on my car because what was trash to him was my treasure.
It would be nice to see a "street" time trial event come back using tires with treadwear in the 200 area. These new 60 tread wear Pirellis are crazy expensive! How about if Kumho starting making the big XS Ecsta 200 tread wear tires and sponsoring NARRA. Those tires would be only $300 each instead of $600-700.

I don't know if I agree with the break loose comment, PS2's give great feed back and you know when you are on the edge before it "snaps", R compounds are a different matter but by the time you use R6s you should be accomplished enough to handle it. I went to TWS one time for the 2002 Viperdays Nationals and in a basically stock (prepared group) 2000 RT/10 turned a 1:59 on PS2s with 1 day of practice. I followed my heavily modified (at the time) 2000 with a stock 2008 ACR and beat my Willow Springs lap times by 3.5 seconds.

 

[opnwide]

SoCal,
that's what I meant about the PS2s. I think you misread me. You could 1)audibly tell when they were about to go and 2) when they did go I would have an easier time catching them. I used to drive by sound. If my tires weren't squealin' then I wasn't pushin'! I now run Sport Cups. Yeah, they're faster but also quieter and not that much faster for me. I really need to get to the track more than twice a year! Seat time. Seat time. Seat time. I am very seriously considering going to the new SS for the track....

My 2 best buds went from 1-2 seconds slower to 5-7 seconds FASTER than me when they got their gen 4 ACRs (moved up from Gen 2 ACR and SRT-10 coupe). I've got a few plans to try to narrow that discrepancy in the near future

I was there at TWS in 2002 running my GTS in SS, probably on 3 yr old tires That was probably my 2nd or 3rd event ever! Was that in Feb or the summer? Not sure if I was sub-2:00 at that point in my "career", but not too far behind you. Anything under 2:00 in Aug or Sept is pretty good, esp on PS2s.

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

You need to run wih this group. Many of us track our Vipers with this group. There will be about 6 Vipers at the Buttonwillow event next weekend. 4 of the 6 drivers are also instructors with this group. PM me for more detailed info. Tracking a Miata and Viper are completely different. Best of luck.
http://www.ncracing.org/

Who's going Sled?

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Who's going Sled?

Luc I betcha

Opnwide you're right I completely mis-read that, you're right on

.