How much oil for a fresh new motor?

[98intrigue]

I know the '06 motors have a 10.5qt oil capacity, but what's the recommended amount of oil to add on a brand new motor?

The reason I ask is my motor spun another rod bearing 600 miles after a fresh rebuild. The installer said he only put in 9qts since "the capacity is 8.5-9qts". I told him I believe that's the capacity for a Gen 2 motor, but he said even the machine shop told him to put in 9 qts. Funny this is I just got off the phone with the machine shop and they never told him a quantity of oil to put in.

The installer said "I'm sure it's not a fault of mine, but I'm going to work with you." As of now, all fingers point to oil starvation due to the installer's neglect. This shop was recommended by Lee Saunders, so it's not like I just looked up a shop in the yellow pages.

 

[speedracervr4]

It should be the same amount as you would normally run. Some builders might suggest using "break in" oil for the first 500miles or so.

 

[speedracervr4]

Did you change out the oil cooler and lines from the previous spun bearing?

 

[Viper808]

9 qts will Not cause oil starvation. 8 quarts wont either.

Are you running the car too hard before its warmed up properly? are you using the proper oil?

I have had 7 different Vipers across all generations....and never had an engine issue... I keep the revs and load low untill I have driven 5-6 miles and thats after
letting the car worm up ( at idle not revving it unnecessarily) for several minuets ( 3-5) before I even get it out of the drive way..

I have know people with no oil level showing on their dip stick at times ..and not have any engine issues...

I dont think the cause of another spun rod bearing is because of 9 qts of oil .. Yes a new engine initially requires about 10-11 qts
However, 1-2 qts shy would not cause a failure .. over revving before full oil pressure is achieved or not lubing the parts properly during installation or other scenarios are most likely the culprit. maybe he didn't actually put 9 quarts in? maybe the bearing wasn't installed correctly. Did you check the oil level when you first got the car back? and again after a few hundred miles to see if you were consuming oil? what was the oil level at 600 miles when you determined a spun bearing?

 

[viper04]

Did you change out the oil cooler and lines from the previous spun bearing?

This to me would hurt the motor more, than only having "9qts" of oil.

 

[98intrigue]

I put 600 breakin miles (mixture of city/highway) on the car before I revved it over 3500rpms. Valvoline 20W50 VR1 was used for breakin. When I changed the oil the night before the failure, I only drained 6.5qts of oil (including the oil filter). I put in 10.5 qts of Mobil 1 10W30 sythentic. I know well enough not to get on the gas until oil/coolant temps are up to par, so that's not a worry.

The motor was rebuilt by a very repuable machine shop (they built Lee's/Sal's record breaking motors), so I doubt the bearings were installed incorrectly (although mistakes are made). I checked the oil after a couple hundred miles and it read it was in the safe zone, but I've also never really gotten a consistent reading on my dipstick when I've checked in the past. The car still sits in my garage since the spun bearing occurred on 11/17. I'm unable to drain the oil and check for any shavings since my car is so low and cannot fit a jack under it (I use ramps to drive up on).

I don't think the shop changed out the oil pump or lines (at least it was never communicated to me). This was my first engine rebuild, so the thought didn't cross my mind to ask. In my opinon, it should be the shop's responsibility to communicate all necessary parts that need to be replaced...whether I'm an expert or novice. After someone mentioned the oil cooler/lines, it seems like a no brainer to have them replaced.

 

[speedracervr4]

If the lines and cooler were not changed then all that bearing material was spread throughout your newly built engine. Do you still have the filter from the first oil change? I would cut it open to see what was inside. So it only had 6.5 quarts of oil in it? That would cause some damage. You can get a low profile jack and jack stands at Harbor Freight or Northern Tools that will work good on our cars.

 

[98intrigue]

If the lines and cooler were not changed then all that bearing material was spread throughout your newly built engine. Do you still have the filter from the first oil change? I would cut it open to see what was inside. So it only had 6.5 quarts of oil in it? That would cause some damage. You can get a low profile jack and jack stands at Harbor Freight or Northern Tools that will work good on our cars.

Yes, I saved the oil and filter. They will be joining my motor when it's finally taken back to the machine shop (who knows when...still trying to work with the installation shop).

A low profile jack won't even help me. My front jacking point is 2.25" off the ground. My car is low!

 

[speedracervr4]

Geez that's low. You can get an ultra low profile jack from Griot's Garage with a min lift of 2.25", but I'm sure you're not looking to drop $450 on a jack you would use only once.

 

[Viper808]

I dont get the 20/50 for a fresh motor breakin..or at any time on theses engines...thats stuff is thick as molases..
to me thats more of a problem than 6.5 qts of oil at drain..plus a half qrt is in your filter so that 7.

I would have used 0-30 or 0-40 ...prevents oils starvation at start up.

If you kept it under 3500 rmp for 600 miles ..thats quite an accomplishment..I dont know if I could have done that.

20/50 is for a high reving 4 ******......I would lean towards the 20/50 being a possible factor ..but still it seams thats there is some also some other issue .

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I would look at the invoice for the engine build, if there is no cooler and lines provided then that is most likely the only cause. Who took the motor in and out? They would be the one to change these parts not the machine shop because they would still be with the car. The shop would not know what was done before and after they get the engine unless they removed it and even then they may not realize what would be needed outside of the engine rebuild or take responsibility for it.

***** that you are going through it all over and I hope you find the actual cause this time. Like was said 6.5qts plus the 2/3qt in the filter is too low, but you should have caught it during the break in if you lost 3 quarts in 600 miles I would have thought. Did the oil light ever come on or flicker?

 

[Sonoman]

RE: 20W-50. Check your owner's manual, 20W-50 is fine for moderate to warm climates. There are no oil starvation problems with 20W-50, and oil pressure can actually come up quicker during a start-up than with lighter oils. 0W- oils are recommended for use when the ambient temps drop below freezing, which "fair weather" cars like mine never see, and I would think Florida certainly qualifies as a warm weather state!

 

[RPHJR]

Not in this thread specifically, but Its amazing all the misinformation on this forum about engine break-ins. I've seen threads where people actually believe they are "getting all the shavings out" by changing oil on a brand new car/engine at 500 miles, LOL...... Little do they know, the car was likely run at the rev limiter before they even got it... If an engine is "producing" metal shavings. You have about 5 seconds to complete, and catastrophic failure.. PERIOD....

With regard to this thread.. The answer is no, and no.. No, 1, 2 or 3 quarts low will not "cause" a failure, and no 20w oil wont either.... The engine was obviously built, or put back together with an internal fault of some type, and failure was destined.

Break-in is a rite of passage I guess.. But a properly built engine, could easily just be put through a few heat cycles, and then run wide open at rev limiter all day long. Wont do a darn thing.. Jamie Furman was beat the living SH#T out of a brand new 2008 vert with only 90 miles on it.(10.90 pass all stock).


I'd get with the engine builder and see what went wrong, here.

 

[bluesrt]

or the cooler with metal shaveings left in it

 

[98intrigue]

Not in this thread specifically, but Its amazing all the misinformation on this forum about engine break-ins. I've seen threads where people actually believe they are "getting all the shavings out" by changing oil on a brand new car/engine at 500 miles, LOL...... Little do they know, the car was likely run at the rev limiter before they even got it... If an engine is "producing" metal shavings. You have about 5 seconds to complete, and catastrophic failure.. PERIOD....

With regard to this thread.. The answer is no, and no.. No, 1, 2 or 3 quarts low will not "cause" a failure, and no 20w oil wont either.... The engine was obviously built, or put back together with an internal fault of some type, and failure was destined.

Break-in is a rite of passage I guess.. But a properly built engine, could easily just be put through a few heat cycles, and then run wide open at rev limiter all day long. Wont do a darn thing.. Jamie Furman was beat the living SH#T out of a brand new 2008 vert with only 90 miles on it.(10.90 pass all stock).


I'd get with the engine builder and see what went wrong, here.

Everyone has their own opinions about breakin. I did the breakin for the peace of mind and now I'm glad I did...because the shop can't blame me for over-revving or something.

or the cooler with metal shaveings left in it

I confirmed the oil cooler was not changed out, but the lines were cleaned out. AS of now, the install shop said if the oil cooler is to blame, it's on the machine shop. The machine shop said that if the oil cooler is to blame, it's on the installed. I told them both I donn't care who's fault it is. I just want it fixed and quickly. I'm not ok with waiting another 3 months.

I'm dropping the car off with the installed on Sunday night. He said he will pull the motor within a day or two, but is not sure how soon he can deliver the engine to the machine shop since his truck is being serviced and he's down an employee (I told him that's an unacceptable excuse, but he didn't offer any other resolution). The machine shop has agreed to have the motor torn down and determine the cause of failure within 2 days they receive the motor.

 

[speedracervr4]

If it's the oil cooler then I would be looking at the installation shop as opposed to the machine shop. I would follow the guidance of the engine builder as far as break in goes. Everybody has there own theories on what works best...Hopefully it gets fixed in a timely manner.

 

[MTGTS]

The machine shop never got the oil cooler therefore cannot be blamed. This is on the install shop.