I am a Viper Purist but I can see that the new Viper has to change.

[Early93Viper]

At VOI last year I had the opportunity to talk to Ralph Gilles about the new GEN 5 Viper. One of my most pertinent questions was if the Viper was going to stay a purist car. The answer he had at first disappointed me. He said there will be a viper for purists with as little electronic nannies as possible but there will also be an optional Viper aimed at Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini guys who enjoy technologies such as paddle shifters, Traction Control, etc. I literally cringed at the thought of Paddle shifters on a Viper.

See I always thought of the Viper as the purist car no TC, no SC, no paddle shifters, no nannies. If it was up to me the Viper still wouldn’t have anti-lock brakes. On the track I have always gotten so much enjoyment from a perfectly executed heel-toe or thresh hold braking just perfectly for the next turn or just knowing it was me who got on the gas perfectly out of a turn not some computer.

But lately I have realized that just doesn’t sell cars. As a business man I understand supply and demand and the truth of the matter is there isn’t much demand for a purist car. I and maybe 50 other guys on this site would buy a purist Viper not many more. (I might be a little short on cash so don’t count my money yet Chrysler ) If you look at Ferrari and Lamborghini you see how many paddle shifter cars they sell, you see where the demand is at, you see where Dodge has to bring the next car. It’s the only thing that makes business sense. It’s the only way the Viper is going to survive the future.

 

[Vic]

I'd like a 50 msec paddle shifter, with magnetorheological shocks, and a torque vectoring rear axle. Yes, the ACR ran a 7:22 on the Ring, thanks in part to the wing, splitter, and "80" sticky tires. But you can't make a viable business model on a low production, boy racer that appeals to a relatively small segment of the population, regardless of how good it is on track. They had a real hard time selling the last Vipers, which threatened the Viper's very existence. (See Herbs' piece on "Serious Business") A modern GT with a more rounded appeal will allow a broader fan base, i.e., more sales. There's only so much you can do with 60s tech, before you reach the inherrent limitations. Things have progessed so much now, the performance envelope on many sports cars is beyond what you can catch up to with iron origami.

Time marches on. Dinosaurs get left in the dust. The next Viper will be a world-class ass kicker.

Again.




.

 

[vpower01]

I think when we all get to see it opinions will go back and forth.
Im Pretty sure I will like it...buy it, well not at this time.

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[PDCjonny]

The next Viper will be a world-class ass kicker.

Again.

.

It has to be.
Nobody is going to plunk down 100K+ (and it will be ALL of that) on a redesigned Viper with middling performance.
It's always been performance first and foremost.

 

[bluesrt]

u gonna have to take what they give chief or build ur own

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Realize that many of these items are mandated by the Government and are the reason there has to be a new Viper. Many of the purists just want to be able to turn off the traction control , completely, and not have a system like Mercedes or others where it never fully disengages. But the new cars will all have things like side airbags, traction control , stability management, etc. , and of course the challenge is to leave some of the rawness in the Viper that makes it so appealing -- tougher task to be sure.

The idea of paddle shifters or a manually shifting automatic, does seem to keep coming up, and frankly I believe it is as much due to the aging of some Viper owners as anything. With bad knees, bad hips, bad backs , etc. some customers of ours have trouble driving their Snakes now. Yet they are loyal Viper owners and don't want a Vette or a Porsche, but at some point they have trouble driving the Snake and need to go elsewhere. It makes sense to possibly consider this , as there are buyers out there that want only a Viper. Good example is a wounded Vet who wants an automatic Viper as he only has his right leg ---- one can be built, but costly and he would like one from the factory. It is a question to ponder and only time will tell, but some changes will likely occur, we just have to wait and see.

 

[Stealth]

Some Viper improvements are needed, and really overdue (see the "What Must Change" thread). The three biggest issues are: (1) increased performance; (2) increased drivability--e.g. cockpit adjustable suspension, ease of entry, less drive train chunk, shifter/transmission choices, etc. (and as a Gen IV owner I do understand the excellent progress that has already been made in the Gen IV); and (3) maintaining the same price point. If the Viper increases in price in any substantial manner, it will not sell in any siginificant numbers and will push buyers to other products. That said, I am excited to see what Dodge/Fiat/Ferrari/Masarati comes up with!

 

[evomind]

i just want to see it lose some size and weight but i dont think that will happen.

 

[Joseph Houss]

The thought of variations on our Viper is an interesting one.

Porsche does this frequently, and with great success.

They have the "street" model, the "turbo" model, and then a decontented, yet more costly ... closer to track ready version ("R" model or "GT" models).

Don't get any ideas Ralph! 'Ya can't make the "naked" model more expensive than the contented version!

We're too smart for that!

; )

 

[PDCjonny]

God forbid there are various "levels" of performance ala Vettes.
Coupe/Vert/GrandSport/Z06/ZR1........all look similiar with crossover badging and options...bleeech....

 

[Ghoust]

The lack of technology and ownership of the driving experience is one that led me to pull the trigger on my Viper vs a Z06. I hope for the "purist" sake, there will always be cars for the true driving enthusiasts.

 

[ZYellow01RT]

i just want to see it lose some size and weight but i dont think that will happen.

Weight...not size.

 

[Dom426h]

Lamborghini Makes a Gallardo called the Balboni that is RearWheelDrive With a Standard 6-speed gearbox.
Also offers the Standard ClassicGated Gearbox on other models.

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Road Test of the 2010 Lamborghini Gallardo LP550-2 Valentino Balboni - Full Authoritative Test of the 2010 Lamborghini Gallardo LP550-2 Valentino Balboni at RoadandTrack.com

If they can "Keep It Real" there is no doubt that Viper can

I dont mind if Viper offers paddle shifters and other crap as an extra option for the people that want it as long as the most purist viper that the government allows us to build remains an option

 

[JonB]

As was stated by Mr. Gilles at VOI-11, 'the 2010s are always going to be special, since they are the last of the purist's Viper, no drivers aids.'

ASSuming the Comp Coupes and ACR-X variants stay around for track use, THAT might be the purist's avenue for un-aided gratification.

Fact is, 90+% of the Viper ownership is NOT the hard-core owners that show up here on this forum. WE are the "********* Editions" of Viperdom, and the G-5 sales targets the 90%.

Chrysler would rather sell 3000 than 1000. We should be damn-glad there is no automatic!


late note: TOP GEAR's "Stig" tested the Balboni vs the ACR, and the ACR won!

 

[BigDawg]

The Viper going mainstream only makes me want to take my business to a different company. I don't want a car that appeals to the Porsche yuppies. I'd rather get a Porsche which happens to be the best built sports car ever made. The Viper's appeal was it not fitting into any category. Now it will become another number in an over-saturated market. I know I am at odds ends with most of you all but that's how I feel. Dodge should have let the Viper die a meaningful death.

Edit: And to those justifying the bean counter argument I call BS. This car doesn't have to a financial winner to be worth its weight in gold. The Viper as done more for dodge as a halo car than any high-selling corvette type car could. It put Dodge back on the map.

 

[01sapphirebob]

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I dont mind if Viper offers paddle shifters and other crap as an extra option for the people that want it as long as the most purist viper that the government allows us to build remains an option

Agreed. I understand that there is just some things that Dodge is gonna have to do. WHile I am not a racer by any means the one thing that always attracted me to the Viper when I was young is that it was a no nonsense race car for the street. To me the idea of the only option you had for the car was color was pretty cool. However, our snake is shedding its skin again and for the better i'm sure. Ralph would not let us down. I'm sure he feels the whole weight of the Viper nation on his shoulders every time someone asks him about the new car. As mentioned above, as long as there is a "purist" option...i'm sure most owners will be happy with that.

 

[Flexx91]

See I always thought of the Viper as the purist car no TC, no SC, no paddle shifters, no nannies. If it was up to me the Viper still wouldn’t have anti-lock brakes.

As Bill has already stated, some of these additions are government mandated therefore, therefore the luxury of deciding on what it "needs" is out of Chrysler's control. Some of those additions like ABS (and I'm only speaking of ABS), you'd swear you don't need it until the car in front abruptly stops - then you wish you had it.....

 

[plumcrazy]

Maybe it should have just gone the way of the hemi or charger back in the early 70's. Let it die a legend

 

[justingeer82]

Bottom line is to sell more units. I don't know if any of you really pay attention to this but I did some estimating on my car compared to classics. Mines a 94 which is 16 years old. Average for nice early 70's camaros etc went for $5000 or so. Now they're worth around 5 times that much. If my car was $60k new that means around 2034 my car should be valued around $300,000. I consider this a time tested way of looking at an investment. This also follows along with the average growth rate of 4.3%. The more units they make will only make the demand for lower production models more valuable.

 

[redtanrt10]

Polarzing viper topic just like Gen II vs. Gen III, passion on both sides. Everybody's right.

Viper owners have different needs/wants, from the collector, never driven, to the ******** racer who cuts up their viper, and ton's of folks somewhere in between. Can't make everyone happy.

Some of the enhancements are gravity issues, can't fight gravity and can fight government mandates.

Other changes are financial, Chrysler can invest in the viper at these sales levels. They have to attract more buyers or it will die. Some say let it die but that will drag down the tuners and aftermarket too.

For me I hope that Chrysler will build another great viper generation, even if it has items that make it more mainstream. I plan to keep my Gen IV for along time and hope that the Gen V will pave the way for more power in mine.

The guy from Road and Track said in his test article a year ago that this is an end of an era of a raw cars like the viper. If you want it raw, buy a Gen IV ACR, no abs, get a '99, crude but classic, Gen I.

Chryslers not gona build a Mustang II, who knows in the coming years they may have the money and ingenuity to build a $150K viper with Veyron performance

Long live Viper!!!!

 

[evomind]

Weight...not size.

why not???

 

[slysnake]

God forbid there are various "levels" of performance ala Vettes.
Coupe/Vert/GrandSport/Z06/ZR1........all look similiar with crossover badging and options...bleeech....

Agreed!! Several times I've had some one ask, "Is that the 10 cyl or the 12 cyl?" and the response is and should always be "ALL VIPERS ARE THE SAME".

Now I'm ok with some things. Like side airbags or stuff like that. I don't even care that much about TC if it's able to be switched off. But any thought of an 8 cyl version is unacceptable!!

 

[jdeft1]

Also a purist...

The modern viper is not not what it once was and never will be again.


I see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. - or try, at least.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I think everyone here needs to sit back, and relax, and understand that there are different types of "masses".

The new Viper can have a nice new interior, a decent radio, ABS, Traction, and a few bells and whistles- but if it is still an in your face loud, brute torque monster that tries to kill you as soon as you turn off the TC, and is too noisy and hot for the Porsche and Vette pansies to begin with- IT WONT APPEAL TO THEM. If it is simply a more refined and better trimmed version of what we already have, then the magazines wont be able to fault it like they have all these years!

Lets face it: take the current Gen-4, and trim the interior a bit nicer, put in a Uconnect 8.4N, and give it a few other nice options. Is it any less of a car? No. Are the Porsche guys going to trade in for it? Hell no. Are the magazines going to get what they want, while at the same time creating a car that better holds its value? ABSOLUTELY. Image is everything- and the interior, is where the image is lacking. That can be fixed, without having to ruin the formula! I am sure that is what will ultimately end up being the "Gen-5"... a meaner exterior and a nicer trimmed interior, with defeat-able government mandates. As long as they don't shaft the aftermarket capability anymore than they already have, or sissify the powertrain, they will have another winner that satisfies all of the true enthusiasts. I know plenty of people who LOVE the Viper, LOVE the power, LOVE the style, but HATE the interior. The G3/G4 SRT is a stop gap compared to the G1 and G2, but the radio and lack of any usable comforts is a deal breaker for many, especially considering how difficult that damn 1.5 Din radio makes ANY upgrade.

Hopefully this new formula will just be a trimming upgrade, and it will be left alone for the most part otherwise. Personally, I feel they should have the "normal" trim level SRT/Coupe, the ACR should be a lighter and stripped version much like the current cars, and then the ACR-X should be completely stripped, and government control free, much like the current program. However, ALL of them need to be based on the same powertrain, brakes, body, etc. There cannot EVER be a "slow" viper stripped of its inherent character. That is where the other manufacturers keep getting it wrong.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Chrysler would rather sell 3000 than 1000.

Don't bet on that. Chrysler already has the lowest CAFE of any domestic and most imports and just barely clears the required 27.5 mpg. Selling more Vipers won't help a requirement which is scheduled to be raised to 34.1mpg in 2016 and has 100% support from this idiot president of ours.

People may think they bought the car they want but in reality they bought the car the government wants them to buy. And then there are a few of us rebels who bought the car the government let us buy. It's been getting worse and worse since 1973.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Business model? Are you guys serious? Chrysler sold 1.1 million units in 2010, which equates to the Viper being less than 1/10 of a percent of the units sold. Chrysler also had 42 billion in revenues in 2010 which means the Viper contributed less than 1/10 of a percent to the bottom line. And that's based on Viper sales at 1000 units when in fact they sold much less in 2010. Even compared to Chrysler's 1.7 billion 2010 advertising expenditures Viper revenues are a very small fraction.

The fact is Viper sales (and expenses) don't amount to a pimple on Chryslers' financial butt and paddle shifters and nannies won't help. Where the Viper pays off is in all the free press.

 

[Boxer12]

Porsche is overrated. The Viper is every bit as reliable as any Porsche, and better than the Turbo or GT2. Both are hand built. The Porsche is higher quality and tighter, and the Porsche has a lot of technology, but I have seen many a Turbo or GT2 blow out at the track. IMO-They aren't built to handle the rigors of racing out of the box. In fact, I have never seen a Turbo or GT2 last the racing season without some major $$$$ breakdown. Only the GT3 are reliable and built for racing off the showroom imo, but the ACR beats it. PS-Put a twin turbo in the Viper lineup and watch the world bow down...simple.

 

[Attackdaddy24]

I have wanted a viper since I first seen it. My buddy had the viper pace car poster on his wall (I had Cindy Crawford) when we were growing up. The fact that it is american made, raw, uneconomical, and downright awesome is the main reasons I think most want one. Is there nothing scacred anymore? How did we go from no cup holder to all of this other crap? The thought of an automatic Viper makes me sick. I guess I don't like change. If you can't drive it don't buy it. Now, if I get my leg blown off while I am over here I will tie a stick to my nub and find a way to drive my car. I don't think we need to conform to sell more cars.

 

[lilgookiemonsta]

Maybe it should have just gone the way of the hemi or charger back in the early 70's. Let it die a legend

I completely agree! It's still under-rated but wait a few years when everyone realizes that all the nannies make driving useless. Everyone will think about "the good ol' days". Glad to own one of the 'legends' now!

 

[Zentenk]

Next Viper is going to be a downgrade to compete with Porshe? Great, you know Porshe does well because it is a brand loyalty across the globe, the Dodge IS NOT! No matter what they do with paddle shifters and all that garbage it will not compete in sales. If anything it will increase cost and you def wont see them all over. I could care less if they bring it back or not, they wont be starting up production of a new GTS will they? haha

Maybe it will become the next Charger and get a lot of sales!!! =D *hurl*