I REALLYwant to get a Viper but i have some questions...

[ndvipergtsr]

My thought would be at your age you should find a nice 5.0 mustang get used to a car with power modify it as your desire for speed grows until you know you are not going to make an expensive mistake and you still may but experiance is the best teacher. Jerry

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rafi55:
what exactly makes the Viper THAT dangerous.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The driver. And I'm not being a wisea$$.


You're 17 and you have 16K? Buy some property and sit on it for ten years.

 

[Acatala7]

I think you should rent one for a weekend(your dad will have to sign) and see how what you think. Then be sure to go online and get some insurance quotes because that is probably what will do you in.You should consider a 2003 Mustang Cobra...those things are pretty powerfull from what i hear.

 

[Acatala7]

please excuse all gramamtical errors in the last post, i'll put the bottle down now.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Rafi, the car doesn’t drive itself. The majority (not all) of my mishaps, both on the track and off, were the result of my own actions. You drive to the limits of your car. The car doesn’t know if the tires are cold or greasy, the driver should. It doesn’t know when to accelerate or how hard to brake, the driver does. Get experience. There is no substitute for track time.

If I would’ve had 16K at the age of 17 I would’ve bought the cheapest acre of land I could find, put up the cheapest metal building I could, live out of it, buy an old beat up pickup truck and a beat up stock car, road car, dragcar, go-cart, whichever you like, and started racing as soon as possible. 16K won’t get all that but it’s a nice start.

Instead I did what you want to do. I had an awesome street car and motorcycle and hung with everybody every weekend. As fun as it was/is it doesn't come close to the fun at the track.

Oh yeah, and don’t have kids.

Is there any wonder I’m 41 and never married?

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:

Is there any wonder I’m 41 and never married? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

..........................................no............

 

[Acatala7]

when i was 17 I JOINED THE ARMY!

anyways.....Rafi there are plenty of places to rent Vipers, I'm not sure where you call home but check around. Prices range but expect to put a grand or two as a down payment and pay 2 or 3 hundred per day.

 

[genXgts]

Hey Rafii,

I took a GTS out for the day in Vegas and had a blast in it.
It was 250 for 5 hours, 100 miles free, and they precharge a Visa/Mastercard 500 bucks for damages and then credit it back if you return it with rear tires! Get some seat time before you commit to one, you may not like it, the car is a bear to drive in light to light traffic, ie, the vegas strip, but when I finally was out into Red Rock Canyon, 2 lane open roads, no traffic, yikes, hoping to have one in the driveway in the next few months......

Good advice on getting a 5.0, mod it up right, one piece at a time, learn to respect the car as it grows from 225 horse to 400+, which can be done for about the cost of an exhaust for a Viper, and at that time you'll be in good shape. That's not to say some experienced drivers still don't get into trouble, check the link out of the flipped RT/10 a few days ago, flat out bad luck there!!

good luck,
Ryan

 

[cycloneGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rafi55:
i am not saying that it makes me a pro or anything, just less likely than most teens since peer pressure is easy for me to handle.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't need to have any peer pressure once you get in the car...its human nature to want to drive it fast, drag race a Mustang or Corvette at a stop light (for example). No one has to try to influence you. It is the self control that needs to be learned. Based on what I read here, the car will "bite" even experienced drivers, much less a driver with less experience.

 

[RedEnuf93]

Rafi55,

Have you ever been in a Viper?

I live in Lancaster, PA, local dealer rents a blue GTS (white stripes) 1996 for about 400 bucks a day. Maybe this is a best way to get more familiar of what kind of car it REALLY is.
After driving all kind of cars (from Mini's to Corvettes) I wanted a Viper and it still suprices me.

Chuck has a excellent point "The car doesn’t know if the tires are cold or greasy, the driver should." (AND this is only ONE point he mentioned...)

This is what happened to me last month. 30 degrees outside, coming on my favorite ramp to highway, I've done it hundreds of times ( long sweeping curve and a blast to drive) and I got the car complitely sideways. TOO COLD TIRES... Small mistake, but heavy price if you hit anything. I was lucky this time.

One more...
I bought the car in NC, me and my buddy drove it back to Dallas. After picking it up and driving for a while, I told my buddy that I just cannot believe how this car handles. It goes like a train on rails! (He has a Corvette, so he is not that unfamiliar with HP/Torq.) He started to drive it and I (stupidly) told him to punch it while cornering/entering the highway. Faster than I said SH*T, he turned it 180 degrees and we were watching 3 lane highway coming at us at 65 miles per hour. NOT THAT MUCH FUN EITHER!

When I was 16 I bought a 1959 Citroen, not fast but I learned how to keep it running. Then Mini's, Coopers and Cortina's. Then Corvettes, slow ones and fast ones. A Grand National and some other cars and I was ready for a Viper. I pretty much wrecked 50% of my cars. There is no substitute for experience.

My advice for you is that buy something you can repair, gets much cheaper on the long run. Play with cams, cylinder heads, carburators and once you have more experience go with the Viper. That is fun too!

Then again, if I would have had money for a Viper when I was 17, I sure would have bought one!!! (and knowing me, i sure would not be here today...)

If you are in NE part of PA, I'll give you a ride. A Dallas guy gave me a ride with his 1994 RT/10 and I was hooked.

I bought the Viper 2 months later.

Lauri

 

[Afy]

Rafi,

The Viper in my humble opinion is a car you will wreck. Infact anyone who drives theirs a lot will in due course.

It only takes one variable to cause the snowball that leads to a crash. A lot of people, myself included have wrecked these beautiful cars.. and lived to regret it. Thankfully..

I would use the money to get an education, go to college.. it will enable you to get more than one viper down the road..

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

OH Boy....God let me be calm...

I'd say I agree with the guy a few responces back to take the 16-17K and invest it or put it into real estate. I know a Viper is tempting, and so is any other performance car at age 17. Your friends will enjoy it, the babes will drool over it, and you'll be the King S**t. But do yourself a big favor. Get a moderate priced new car, only because you know it will be safer than some older car you might get.....not to mention someone else's headaches.

When you're a little older, then get the car you always wanted. Cars will be different then, and you'll also have more experience and money to do what you want. Your life will be better prepared, and your priorities will be in order.....hopefully.

Good luck, hate to burst our bubble. Plus, you'll get killed on insurance. But you said your parents will pay for the insurance? Doesn't matter......all the more reason why you should wait and pay for everything yourself.

 

[Bonkers]

Rafi55, I'm 24 and have been driving others Vipers since slightly before I pasted my drivers test. This is not a car for the teens. I learned that my first day out (when I totally lost it trying to get it out of first gear). I made myself promise that I would not buy one until I was 25 (60 more days.... I can't wait....) because it struck me how naive I was. When I got my license I had two years of unofficial track time, had my second high-powered vehicle, and the same views on my sense of judgment. Sounds like you are 1 of 3 and those who know me don't question by ability behind the wheel (except the local *%&^ authorities.)

Listen to the advice, invest the cash, get a rice burner and 5+ years down the road you'll be "more" ready to drive it and you'll have a lot more cash to put down (unlike me). Plus your insurance will be much less.

Actually, forget that, look at it from a different view: have you asked yourself what will you do IF you happen to wreck it? If its your own fault you may not be able to afford the insurance to drive another for a very long time. Is it really worth that much to you?

 

[Bonkers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CobraCam:

The more I sit-back and look at the whole Viper scene, the more I realize that its going to get increasingly harder to get a Gen2 or even Gen1 in a few years (especially GTS's, no Gen3 Coupe?).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thought that haunts me every day.

 

[snowmann]

I was fairly young when I got my Viper (24) and I would recommend that you rent one if all possible. I know you are probably dreaming of pulling up to a club and having girls swarm all over your car or doing a scene from the fast and furious. The Viper is much different in real life than in your dreams. You do get lots of attension, which is not always that nice and you won't get girls (at least the ones you want). Give it a test drive and I think you might see what I mean. At 17 you should want something more practical and something you can take all your friends out in and something in the rain or snow too...

Just some advice.

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JF58854777:
......you won't get girls (at least the ones you want)...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weeelllllll!!.................Maybe!!!

(Depends a lot on one's perspective!!)

You must be registered for see images

Really, What (lettersnumbers) said is good advice!

 

[garolittle]

Girls will not be a problem if he buys this car.

 

[Miles B]

Rafi.. I am 23, but probably still look at cars the way you do. If I had the cash when I was 17, I would have wanted one so bad... and I would be a greasy spot on a road somewhere too. No matter what, most everyone has that first accident when they're a young guy.. I don't even want to admit what I was driving when I stamped on it round a corner and wound up in a fence.. if it had been a Viper..

You just have to learn that first lesson that you can, in fact, screw up. I was a really careful, and a **** good driver and rider - but there is always the moment of weakness. I'm not even sure that I will have totally enough self control yet, but at least I know now what happens before, after and during a (stupid) wreck. I should have a much better chance now than back then. Listen to these guys.. you don't necessarily have to get a minivan or something - get a cheap Mustang and work it, shortly before writing it off.. you'll most likely still smash it, but you won't lose the big bucks, and most likely it will be a harmless one like mine instead of a "lost it going round a bend at 75".

I don't know a single one of my friends who hasn't smashed a car up.. and we've only been going 6 years. Most of us are **** good drivers - it just happens. Get that Rustang - work it, smash it, have some fun. I just think the Viper is a bit easier to have big wrecks in, and if it doesn't end your life, it will end your bank account. I sure hope I am ready for mine - gonna do a lot of track learning, so at least I do my screwups (while trying to corner on 2 wheels) where it won't hurt. 16000 will get your vette/stang going pretty darn quick.

And like they always used to say (though I wanted to shove the words down my parents' throats!) "it's not that long to wait".. the time does fly, and you'll still have the same dumba$$ friends that are impressed by Vipers - oh, and girls never quit being impressed by expensive stuff.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Miles B on 03-05-2002 at 09:35 PM</font>

 

[John H]

Oh my God...

I won't even touch the subject that you're 17. That's been WORN OUT! I will address the subject of your financial situation. You state you have "saved $16,000 and you will make a few k more over the summer". So logically speaking, you have no job or steady influx of cash. Just what you have on hand and what you will make this summer. You're in the market for a $50k Viper? Now, I've had a few graduate level finance courses, but I don't think this situation calls for anything but plain common sense. This is what's called "pipe dream" syndrome. =) You barely have enough to make a year of payments with interest on a $50k car. I can show you the math if you want. Chances are this $50k car is out of warranty. No offense to to fellow Viperphiles, but this and a 911TT are the last cars I would want to have out of warranty without an intention to seriously modify or having a substantial cash reserve for repairs. You won't have money for either. You need to consider something within your budget. Something UNDER $16,000, so you have funds to repair, modify, and get track time and driving instruction. Oh YES it costs to get track time and instruction! I hope you feel smarter for reading this because I feel dumber for writing it.

John H

 

[John H]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CobraCam:

Just how expensive is a Viper going to be 10 years down the line? With the way all the SRT haters are gobbling-up GTS's and RT's left and right, and now that there aren't any crates for the cars, what are the chances of someone getting one down the line? How much is one going to cost? &lt;snip&gt;

If a decent Viper GTS is ~$100,000 used in 10 years, investing that money sure isn't gonna make it easier to get one. &lt;snip&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If a Viper was a limited production car, maybe so. But it is not. I don't see anyone "gobbling" up GTSs and RT/10s". Instead I see a horde of new 2001 and 2002 Vipers sitting at Dodge dealerships not selling for at or below invoice price for the first time in its history. Most viper buyers or future viper buyers are completely in the dark to the new SRT/10 even coming out. The exception is the very informed group of people on this forum which represent a small percentage of the Viper target market. From a marketing standpoint, it's just simply not a good market time to sell "luxury" type items. 996TTs and Z06s are sitting new on dealership lots at invoice price as well. The Gen 2 value will decrease when the Gen 3 models become available to sell. It's by far not an investment. The only people saying otherwise possibly have one to sell or obviously don't want their Viper to further depreciate. It's an inevitability. (I'm using the Matrix guy's voice here) LOL.

Speaking of investing the money, don't most of us wish we had spent the money on a car instead of investing it this last year?

John H

 

[Josiah Gross]

Follow your gut. Yes, alot of young people including my self have wreaked a car. That's mostly due to personality. If you respect your car you wont wreak it. You're a smart guy by doing your reasearch. Do that buy your car have fun. Ps shop around for insurance or do a search on this board, I know you can get insurance very inexpensive.

sincerly,
Josiah Gross

 

[Tusc]

Rafi,
I'm still 23 and **** young by most peoples' standards, so maybe I can give you a good take on things like Fyrchicken before me. Driving ability progresses in stages. You can't hope to grab a 450+ hp and particularly 450+ tq vehicle and instantly develop the experience and skills to handle it in any situation. If you ask most of the guys here they'll probably tell you that these cars STILL surprise them from time to time despite lifetimes of driving and/or racing. You can mess up on a track and that's bad. But outside of such a prepared and controlled environment anything can happen - and that is worse. It would be terrible to wreck a Viper and/or lose your life. It would be much much worse if you took other people with you.
We've all been 16, 18, 21 etc at one point (of course I can't speak for much beyond that!) but we know the thoughts and motivations that everyone goes through. I think the fact that you are pursuing a Viper so fervently at all is an indicator that you are probably not ready for the responsibility. That is not to say that none of us have fun with our cars. But being such a new driver without years of normal driving experience, nevermind performance, is a risky proposition no matter what you're driving.
Maybe the best way to explain it is through my own experience. In high school I had saved up and bought a 1985 Pontiac STE. It was a rusted out POS, but the engine was solid and in fact everything fell apart on that car EXCEPT the engine. But I learned on that car and it was a good platform. That is, I grew into the car. My dad at this time had a 1994 Ram and I remember always thinking how POWERFUL that truck was with a 318 and 220hp. I used to wow myself going 80-90 in that thing. And at that time (16-17) that truck was the next level of ability. I eventually got used to it. When I went to college I sold the Pontiac and bought a MINT 1991 RS camaro with a 305tbi and a WOPPING 170hp. Woo hoo! This car had less power than the Ram but more speed and a radically different suspension. This was my first "sportscar." It was probably the greatest learning curve for me as well. I learned how to drive without ABS. I learned how to control rear wheel drive in many situations (most of them stupid). But I think I was lucky in that it was the right stepping stone for me. It was an improvement over the past, but it did not go so far as to be overly dangerous.

I burned through my bachelors in two years (go me!) and managed to make two very lucky investments. Two years ago, instead of paying off my school loans (since they have low interest) I got myself into a 2000 Corvette. Hey, why not? I'm not going to say it was a mistake, but right now it is making me angry enough to spit. Back to my point..... I had a point? Yes. The Corvette was rated at 345hp - double the RS in power and many more times the RS in all around performance. Honestly, at first the car downright skeeered me! Again, my ability to drive the car came up to par over time. Now I have stripped and rebuilt the RS with a 440hp naturally aspirated 355 that I built specifically to run under boost. I anticipate over 600rwhp with 10 to 12psi. And that will be my next learning curve.

By now you get my point about not driving a car that far exceeds your driving ability and experience. Each "level" brings all-new problems to be solved, reactions to be honed, and adrenaline/fear to be quietly subdued.

If I were 17 and had 16k burning a hole in my pocket? I suggest looking into different Mustang and Z28 / TAs. Mustangs are really cheap to build and start with good level of power (for the 1st time driver). The 93-97 Z28s offer a good alternative with better suspension and more power. If you are particularly brave and can afford it, try to find a 1998+ Z28 or Trans Am. The LS1 in those cars is the EXACT same LS1 in my Corvette in terms of hp to the wheels. They respond well to mods and for several $1,000 you can have a pretty fast ride. But I would caution that an LS1 is a pretty powerful engine to start out on. You could get yourself into trouble pretty quick.

I know this all sounds like a sermon. It wasn't meant to. I'm just trying to share some knowledge and experience. And since we know you'll be doing a lot of learning and testing in the next few years we're trying to steer you straight.

My best advice? If you really want a Viper, take the 16k and put it into a college degree. I know it sounds corny, but that much $$ could put a sizable dent in your college loans and put you years ahead of your peers in terms of savings after college.

::steps down from podium::