I'm convinced Motor Trend hates the Viper (Video)

[Leojmcca]

Drove PCH from Malibu to Sunset and then down Laurel Canyon on Friday. I saw three SLS' and I was the only viper.

The fact that he notes the difference in the floor temp compared to the temp at the driver's head as going from 50 degrees in a Gen III to only 30 degrees in a Gen V shows he sees the cup as half empty when he should be seeing it as half full!

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

The Porsche 911 Turbo S will destroy a Gen 5 Viper on the street...Go drive one,you will see..

Here goes the first diversion from the original thread again. What does a Porsche have to do with his Motor Trend or Viper vs SLS thread.

 

[SRTviper]

All of the above will beat a GT500. Don't you wish you had a viper?

I don't know if that is still the case after a intake,TB,tune and some drag radials

 

[DMan]

I don't know if that is still the case after a intake,TB,tune and some drag radials

I do. You don't need any of that. Less than 600 mis on the clock I baselined my 2014, bone stock (including crappy tires) at 11.63 ET. Drag radials alone should take care of the gen5 in a straight line. Even top speed is about the same GT500 at 202mph. With a $1200 invesment the GT500 makes 700+rwhp and will run 10's all day. Without disturbing the suspension and handling that makes it one of the 20 fastest production cars around Leguna. I wouldn't bet pink slips against a Gt500 in a straight line, and I'd be wary on a road course. I've never had the need to change suspension for open track events as the car is balls fast with the electronic billsteins, but suspension upgrades are so easy & affordable since it's just a mustang. Meanwhile, the gen5 is just what you get, forget the mods, even the MOPAR race PCM isn't an option. 640 HP is so 2010. LOL

Yes mags hate on the viper, always have. Holding the 'ring record it's been written up as being good in a straight line but not turns ... I didn't know the 'ring was all straight-aways. But they generally hate on american cars period. I remember they did a perf test on an M3 and the new Mustang GT 5.0; the mustang won in every perf category, the verdict, the M3 wins overall, why, they said becasue it's a BMW. Nuff said about mags.

And I love the internet vid chat things they do now, let's people see how truly dumb they are, John L is pathetic, I feel bad for the guy he's so clueless. If you can afford $100K car than a $300k is within budget too?? Really? I wonder if he watches that back & realizes how stupid that was. If SRT could charge $300K for the Viper I wonder what perf #s it would put out, with what they've done with what they have, a $300k Viper would probably be capable of space travel.

They're more biased in their opinions than enthusiast forums. Oh, wait, what?

 

[v10enomous]

And I love the internet vid chat things they do now, let's people see how truly dumb they are, John L is pathetic, I feel bad for the guy he's so clueless. If you can afford $100K car than a $300k is within budget too?? Really?

Funny thing is that most guys who can afford a $100k car really can't even afford an $80k car.

 

[Nine Ball]

Let me respond with the same info that was relayed during the last thread on this video.

Johnny Lieberman owns a Subaru WRX as his personal vehicle.

That alone means I wouldn't be taking any advice or commentary from him, as gospel, when it comes to driving high powered cars. If I'm ever in the market for a 4-cylinder AWD ******, his info might be more helpful.

 

[ViperSmith]

I'd love to hear Chris Harris take on the 2013.

 

[DMan]

Funny thing is that most guys who can afford a $100k car really can't even afford an $80k car.

LOL, good one.

 

[Jay M]

Seeing the cup as half full, maybe they see the Viper as the standard by which all else are judged

~Jay

 

[speedracervr4]

Johnny Lieberman owns a Subaru WRX as his personal vehicle.

That alone means I wouldn't be taking any advice or commentary from him, as gospel, when it comes to driving high powered cars. If I'm ever in the market for a 4-cylinder AWD ******, his info might be more helpful.

I think it's irreverent as to what car the writer owns. His job is to review cars and there are many factors to why he owns a WRX as opposed to some high performance vehicle. Don't get me wrong the Viper is in a different league when compared to a WRX, but for the price the WRX is a fun and track worthy car if you're on a budget.

I really don't think the Viper has ever gotten great reviews in magazines, but I don't buy vehicles based magazines # or opinions.

 

[Nine Ball]

I think it's irreverent as to what car the writer owns. His job is to review cars and there are many factors to why he owns a WRX as opposed to some high performance vehicle.

Alas, reviews are just opinions. I agree that it doesn't matter what he drives, in order to form an opinion. I do decide to discount his judgement on cars like this, knowing his baseline. I've seen many articles lauding and lavishing the Honda Accord or BMW 3-series, but I personally find both very boring commuting appliances. So, it IS about perspective.

 

[Brass Monkey ACR E]

The only diff between Gen 4 Vipers and ACR were the brakes and Aero pack,HP and everything else remained the same.
Ralph and SRT VIPER will have to do more than just put a Aero pack on the car,GEN 5brakes are now the same as GEN 4 ACR's.
If Ralph/SRT are considering the ACR they should consider:: WIDE BODY, INCREASE the HP, change the interior alittle to show it is a ACR,and OPTIONS of headers & gear ratio option.
It's SAD Ralph and other current SRT employees take all the credit for VIPER and give NO RECONITION TO "GRAIL KEEPER HERB HELBIG","FATHER VIPER ROY" and "DICK WINKLE"the actual FOUNDERS/CREATERS OF VIPER.
No disrespect to FIAT/SERGIO,RALPH and others THANK YOU for stepping up to the plate and taking over

 

[speedracervr4]

Alas, reviews are just opinions. I agree that it doesn't matter what he drives, in order to form an opinion. I do decide to discount his judgement on cars like this, knowing his baseline. I've seen many articles lauding and lavishing the Honda Accord or BMW 3-series, but I personally find both very boring commuting appliances. So, it IS about perspective.

I understand what you're saying. I haven't really paid attention to other reviews he has written and it seems most writers don't really get what the Viper is all about.

The only diff between Gen 4 Vipers and ACR were the brakes and Aero pack,HP and everything else remained the same.
Ralph and SRT VIPER will have to do more than just put a Aero pack on the car,GEN 5brakes are now the same as GEN 4 ACR's.
If Ralph/SRT are considering the ACR they should consider:: WIDE BODY, INCREASE the HP, change the interior alittle to show it is a ACR,and OPTIONS of headers & gear ratio option.
It's SAD Ralph and other current SRT employees take all the credit for VIPER and give NO RECONITION TO "GRAIL KEEPER HERB HELBIG","FATHER VIPER ROY" and "DICK WINKLE"the actual FOUNDERS/CREATERS OF VIPER.
No disrespect to FIAT/SERGIO,RALPH and others THANK YOU for stepping up to the plate and taking over

I'm pretty sure Ralph and the other SRT employees are humble and give credit where it's due. Dick Winkle has given muliple interviews on the new Viper. The car has evolved over 20 years and it's hard to continue to go back and praise every individual person.

 

[Viper4Christ]

It's all about who is spending on advertising. Pretty soon these magazines will all be gone anyway.

And not a moment too soon. Am I the only one to notice the ever increasing lean the mag's take to advertising dollars? I'm just waiting for the day when during a review an editor jumps in front of said car being tested with a big ***** grin screaming "Ford, GM, Toyota, Mitsubishi ect is paying us to love it!"

Side note that guy always has silly little misplaced remarks to say about the Viper no matter what the review, he comes off as an arrogant goon being paid to say what he does. Anyone in media who trashes the GenV the way he does is obviously being paid to do so or can't drive worth a dime to save their life.


Here's to when MT had REAL car enthusiasts review the mighty snake...

<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVXSKgOzRgA

 

[PeerBlock]

I do. You don't need any of that. Less than 600 mis on the clock I baselined my 2014, bone stock (including crappy tires) at 11.63 ET. Drag radials alone should take care of the gen5 in a straight line. Even top speed is about the same GT500 at 202mph. With a $1200 invesment the GT500 makes 700+rwhp and will run 10's all day. Without disturbing the suspension and handling that makes it one of the 20 fastest production cars around Leguna. I wouldn't bet pink slips against a Gt500 in a straight line, and I'd be wary on a road course. I've never had the need to change suspension for open track events as the car is balls fast with the electronic billsteins, but suspension upgrades are so easy & affordable since it's just a mustang. Meanwhile, the gen5 is just what you get, forget the mods, even the MOPAR race PCM isn't an option. 640 HP is so 2010. LOL

A bone stock Gen 5 is already good for mid to low 11s on factory tires. DRs are good for what on ETs...about 0.8 to 1.0 seconds? Maybe less of an improvement on the viper since the stock tires are already quite sticky, but even if it's 0.5 sec better it puts the Viper solidly into the 10s and you didn't have to do any upgrades to get there. A stock GT500 would go from low 12s / high 11s to mid/low 11s, possibly high 10s in the right conditions. On a road course a stock GT500 won't hang with a stock Viper. Wouldn't even be close.

If I was going to drag my Viper, I'd probably run a big shot of nitrous on there, possibly combined with propane injection. Could probably get that done myself for $1,200-ish. What kind of hit could the stock V10 take before it blows up? A 400 shot? That could be enough to hit 9s.

 

[DMan]

A bone stock Gen 5 is already good for mid to low 11s on factory tires. DRs are good for what on ETs...about 0.8 to 1.0 seconds? Maybe less of an improvement on the viper since the stock tires are already quite sticky, but even if it's 0.5 sec better it puts the Viper solidly into the 10s and you didn't have to do any upgrades to get there. A stock GT500 would go from low 12s / high 11s to mid/low 11s, possibly high 10s in the right conditions. On a road course a stock GT500 won't hang with a stock Viper. Wouldn't even be close.

If I was going to drag my Viper, I'd probably run a big shot of nitrous on there, possibly combined with propane injection. Could probably get that done myself for $1,200-ish. What kind of hit could the stock V10 take before it blows up? A 400 shot? That could be enough to hit 9s.

I'm not a mag racer, you missed the part where I said I've already gone 11.63 in my bone stock GT500 and that's before the 1st oil change. What times have you turned in the 1/4 so far in the gen5? I'm sure my GT500 will be faster than my gen5, running 10s on a GT500 is about as simple as it gets, but I don't buy vipers to drag race, not that I haven't taken everyone to the drags a few times, just because, well, ya gotta. Let me know when you're in the 10s with your gen5, then we can meet up for a race, til then .... yawn. My gen4 is like a shifter cart on the road course & the gen5 is only an improvement on that, but you know that from all your road course time in yours too, or at least, you've read it anyway. Until we get PCM relief, or you're willing to spend many many thousands yanking the electronics and going aftermarket, the most HP the gen5 can take above the stock 640 is zeroooo. lol Hopefully, FI options will be in our future as well as MOPAR packages, we certainly got hints to that effect at VOI, I know guys on here that would make a gen5 a terror if/when the PCM is out of the way, here's to hoping. Now, about those options for 2014 ...

 

[PeerBlock]

I'm not a mag racer, you missed the part where I said I've already gone 11.63 in my bone stock GT500 and that's before the 1st oil change. What times have you turned in the 1/4 so far in the gen5? I'm sure my GT500 will be faster than my gen5, running 10s on a GT500 is about as simple as it gets, but I don't buy vipers to drag race, not that I haven't taken everyone to the drags a few times, just because, well, ya gotta. Let me know when you're in the 10s with your gen5, then we can meet up for a race, til then .... yawn. My gen4 is like a shifter cart on the road course & the gen5 is only an improvement on that, but you know that from all your road course time in yours too, or at least, you've read it anyway. Until we get PCM relief, or you're willing to spend many many thousands yanking the electronics and going aftermarket, the most HP the gen5 can take above the stock 640 is zeroooo. lol Hopefully, FI options will be in our future as well as MOPAR packages, we certainly got hints to that effect at VOI, I know guys on here that would make a gen5 a terror if/when the PCM is out of the way, here's to hoping. Now, about those options for 2014 ...

You're a forum racer and I didn't see you get 11.6 in your "bone stock GT500", and you are definitely overstating the GT500's real world 1/4 mile performance on average. Even if you did land high 11s, a lot of people are stuck in 12s. Driving technique matters and a lot of people don't have a solid technique since they only race occasionally, for fun. Nothing wrong with that.

It's also pointless to suggest that just because a brand new car doesn't have many aftermarket performance options YET, that it will not in the near future. Like I said, a "bone stock" Gen 5 will likely beat a "bone stock" GT500 in a drag race and definitely in a road race. Driver skill matters, but let's not involve too many variables since we're just talking about the cars themselves.

Another way to look at it is, whether or not the GT500 can beat a Viper in the 1/4 mile is less important than the fact that the possibility exists for the race to go either way and if the Viper lost, it would still be very close. On a road course the GT500 does not stand a chance against a viper; it would not even be close, it would lose by a mile...so the Viper can beat the GT500 at it's game - drag racing - but the GT500 is totally outclassed when asked to play the Viper's game - real racing.

 

[v10enomous]

Right... plus your car looks a $20k car you buy for your kid.

You're a forum racer and I didn't see you get 11.6 in your "bone stock GT500", and you are definitely overstating the GT500's real world 1/4 mile performance on average. Even if you did land high 11s, a lot of people are stuck in 12s. Driving technique matters and a lot of people don't have a solid technique since they only race occasionally, for fun. Nothing wrong with that.

It's also pointless to suggest that just because a brand new car doesn't have many aftermarket performance options YET, that it will not in the near future. Like I said, a "bone stock" Gen 5 will likely beat a "bone stock" GT500 in a drag race and definitely in a road race. Driver skill matters, but let's not involve too many variables since we're just talking about the cars themselves.

Another way to look at it is, whether or not the GT500 can beat a Viper in the 1/4 mile is less important than the fact that the possibility exists for the race to go either way and if the Viper lost, it would still be very close. On a road course the GT500 does not stand a chance against a viper; it would not even be close, it would lose by a mile...so the Viper can beat the GT500 at it's game - drag racing - but the GT500 is totally outclassed when asked to play the Viper's game - real racing.

 

[ViperSmith]

Ugh more of the same, DMan please no more feeding!!

 

[DMan]

You're a forum racer and I didn't see you get 11.6 in your "bone stock GT500", and you are definitely overstating the GT500's real world 1/4 mile performance on average. Even if you did land high 11s, a lot of people are stuck in 12s. Driving technique matters and a lot of people don't have a solid technique since they only race occasionally, for fun. Nothing wrong with that.

It's also pointless to suggest that just because a brand new car doesn't have many aftermarket performance options YET, that it will not in the near future. Like I said, a "bone stock" Gen 5 will likely beat a "bone stock" GT500 in a drag race and definitely in a road race. Driver skill matters, but let's not involve too many variables since we're just talking about the cars themselves.

Another way to look at it is, whether or not the GT500 can beat a Viper in the 1/4 mile is less important than the fact that the possibility exists for the race to go either way and if the Viper lost, it would still be very close. On a road course the GT500 does not stand a chance against a viper; it would not even be close, it would lose by a mile...so the Viper can beat the GT500 at it's game - drag racing - but the GT500 is totally outclassed when asked to play the Viper's game - real racing.

LoL, if I ever start a dodgeball team you're my first draft choice, my friend. Great evasion of reality and hard facts. When you add your mods don't forget to dyno tune your gen5 in 3rd gear. Oh yea, we all remember. And I'm not putting you on ignore like others, I'm here to learn and to share, and I'm confident someday, maybe in the distant future, but someday, you'll learn something about cars.

BTW, you really need to read posts you're responding to, maybe even twice. I posted that packages and MOPAR parts should be coming, as hinted by sidebar discussions with SRT engineers and Ralph at VOI, I'm counting on it myself, even though they never opened the gen4 PCM in 5 years, not a new thing, but to be competitive they need to do this going forward in most opinions, and I take Ralph on his word or hints, also.

 

[DMan]

Ugh more of the same, DMan please no more feeding!!

Ok, ok, I was really trying to have a real discussion, but whatever helps him sleep at night, lol. I'll put the peanuts away and stop the feeding.

 

[DMan]

Lets see if the 2014 Nissan GTR can beat the gen5 Viper around the track. It has been upgraded again for 2014 . Would be interesting to see that comparo.

It's gotta make up about 3 seconds, that's a lot. Plus, Pobst might doze off lapping it, I remember saying it was a fast car but boring to drive. Of course boring could be good on track, no drama means confidence, but I'm sure we'll see. MT will probably do a comparo against the viper and the new GT-R, and the viper will,have a donuts spare on it to make sure it loses. LoL.

 

[mnc2886]

It's gotta make up about 3 seconds, that's a lot. Plus, Pobst might doze off lapping it, I remember saying it was a fast car but boring to drive. Of course boring could be good on track, no drama means confidence, but I'm sure we'll see. MT will probably do a comparo against the viper and the new GT-R, and the viper will,have a donuts spare on it to make sure it loses. LoL.

No doubt something ridiculous will happen. Somehow when the Gen V gets tested again, it will only run a 1:40 at Laguna.

 

[PeerBlock]

LoL, if I ever start a dodgeball team you're my first draft choice, my friend. Great evasion of reality and hard facts. When you add your mods don't forget to dyno tune your gen5 in 3rd gear. Oh yea, we all remember. And I'm not putting you on ignore like others, I'm here to learn and to share, and I'm confident someday, maybe in the distant future, but someday, you'll learn something about cars.

Making a claim and then suggesting it's the norm is hardly a "hard fact". When you get done running 11s in your "bone stock" GT500 why don't you go run 10s in your "bolt on" civic, and then cut 8s on your gixxer "that only has a slip-on exhaust".

BTW, you really need to read posts you're responding to, maybe even twice. I posted that packages and MOPAR parts should be coming, as hinted by sidebar discussions with SRT engineers and Ralph at VOI, I'm counting on it myself, even though they never opened the gen4 PCM in 5 years, not a new thing, but to be competitive they need to do this going forward in most opinions, and I take Ralph on his word or hints, also.

A lot of manufacturers leave their ECUs encrypted since there is proprietary information on there that could be useful to competitors. A lot of manufacturers also turn a blind eye to people who crack the software of an ECU to make it at least somewhat accessible to the aftermarket...so if Mopar decides to leave the ECU "locked" then it's only a question of how motivated people are to unlock it.

 

[madninjaskillz]

I have two friends with GT500s. They have both 1/4'd their cars stock and didn't run less than 12.2X. One now has a pulley and tune, and is running low 11s on wider tires.

 

[DMan]

Making a claim and then suggesting it's the norm is hardly a "hard fact". When you get done running 11s in your "bone stock" GT500 why don't you go run 10s in your "bolt on" civic, and then cut 8s on your gixxer "that only has a slip-on exhaust".



A lot of manufacturers leave their ECUs encrypted since there is proprietary information on there that could be useful to competitors. A lot of manufacturers also turn a blind eye to people who crack the software of an ECU to make it at least somewhat accessible to the aftermarket...so if Mopar decides to leave the ECU "locked" then it's only a question of how motivated people are to unlock it.

This is just too funny coming from the guy who doesn't know how to dyno a car. Like I've offered, in you're in my area, happy to meet up at Summit for a FATT and we can go lap time to lap time, my gen4 or my GT500 against your gen5. Or Capiltol Raceway or MIR for some fun drags. Let me know when you want to learn something. I'll be at Summit on the 28th for a trackday on my Ninja 1000. I have been racing bikes since I was 8, MX and then Motard & road courses for fun (KTM, Ninja, R1 and MX bikes in my stable). I've only dragged a couple of my liter bikes thru the years, never broke lower than 10 teens at best, guys hitting 9s on these bikes are special animals. I know you're not really car guy, but you should try going to a track sometime, it is a lot of fun.

On the PCM, no one has cracked it in 5 years, and now we have a new one, it's just common sense that in a tight low production market like ours (which is good and bad) we'll not see it cracked unless MOPAR cracks it. They are reportedly working with the big boys so we can all be hopeful, I am, it's just whether they're working on projects of their own, as in SRT or racing programs, or for new product development. I'm hoping we at least see power packages, if not a release of the code to network tuners who can then offer aftermarket packages, either way is "winning".

Of course, in terms of being on topic, if SRT does release a power package, I'm sure MT will find a way to test as being slower than the new VW GTI. lol

 

[DMan]

I have two friends with GT500s. They have both 1/4'd their cars stock and didn't run less than 12.2X. One now has a pulley and tune, and is running low 11s on wider tires.

Even mags are turning 11.6-11.8s with these. Are your friends in 2014s? My 2011 ran a best of 11.98 bone stock, but that was one run, others were all 12 teens that day. Tires sucked and were skinny. The newest GT500 with the new tires, stickier & wider (SVTPP/PP model like mine), and of another 110hp and 100 lb/ft of tq, are a lot easier to drive. Of course as PB says, it's very driver dependent. I ran 11.70 on runflats in my gen3 (which happened to be a strong engine, lucky) and I'm humbly pretty good, I have earned a few trophies in my day drag racing, but there are guys who've gone much quicker than that in gen3s, so there are really good guys out there and guys who do struggle a bit - but at least they're out there so props to them.

This is the same reason many us are soft on the ETs we're seeing on the gen5, we're seeing ETs from 11.3 for the TA (which is believable) to nearly 12s (uh, no), but once we get some guys here who have some solid skills running, I think it'll be impressive, not that we all care too much about drag ETs on a viper, but, at the same time, we kinda do. There are some hot shoes in this community and they're slowly getting their gen5s. Should be fun to watch some new numbers popping up that aren't edited by MT. ;-)

 

[elanderholm]

Here goes the first diversion from the original thread again. What does a Porsche have to do with his Motor Trend or Viper vs SLS thread.

That's all he ever talks about...

 

[madninjaskillz]

Even mags are turning 11.6-11.8s with these. Are your friends in 2014s? My 2011 ran a best of 11.98 bone stock, but that was one run, others were all 12 teens that day. Tires sucked and were skinny. The newest GT500 with the new tires, stickier & wider (SVTPP/PP model like mine), and of another 110hp and 100 lb/ft of tq, are a lot easier to drive. Of course as PB says, it's very driver dependent. I ran 11.70 on runflats in my gen3 (which happened to be a strong engine, lucky) and I'm humbly pretty good, I have earned a few trophies in my day drag racing, but there are guys who've gone much quicker than that in gen3s, so there are really good guys out there and guys who do struggle a bit - but at least they're out there so props to them.

This is the same reason many us are soft on the ETs we're seeing on the gen5, we're seeing ETs from 11.3 for the TA (which is believable) to nearly 12s (uh, no), but once we get some guys here who have some solid skills running, I think it'll be impressive, not that we all care too much about drag ETs on a viper, but, at the same time, we kinda do. There are some hot shoes in this community and they're slowly getting their gen5s. Should be fun to watch some new numbers popping up that aren't edited by MT. ;-)

Good post. Agree that it's very much driver dependent with these high hp/ rwd cars. I believe that my friends' cars are both 2011 model.

 

[PeerBlock]

This is just too funny coming from the guy who doesn't know how to dyno a car. Like I've offered, in you're in my area, happy to meet up at Summit for a FATT and we can go lap time to lap time, my gen4 or my GT500 against your gen5. Or Capiltol Raceway or MIR for some fun drags. Let me know when you want to learn something. I'll be at Summit on the 28th for a trackday on my Ninja 1000. I have been racing bikes since I was 8, MX and then Motard & road courses for fun (KTM, Ninja, R1 and MX bikes in my stable). I've only dragged a couple of my liter bikes thru the years, never broke lower than 10 teens at best, guys hitting 9s on these bikes are special animals. I know you're not really car guy, but you should try going to a track sometime, it is a lot of fun.

What I said about dyno testing remains true and accurate. If you want to start another thread about that topic and get your ass handed to you again like nineballs and his buddy did, be my guest. You'll be nitpicking at technicalities in no time trying to save face, and still be wrong.

Not sure if you detected the sarcasm in the last post, but I'm well aware that most liter bikes are not going lower than 9s...but don't let that stop you from bringing your 8 sec bike. I'll be happy to race you and anyone else who shows up the next time I go to a track.

On the PCM, no one has cracked it in 5 years, and now we have a new one, it's just common sense that in a tight low production market like ours (which is good and bad) we'll not see it cracked unless MOPAR cracks it. They are reportedly working with the big boys so we can all be hopeful, I am, it's just whether they're working on projects of their own, as in SRT or racing programs, or for new product development. I'm hoping we at least see power packages, if not a release of the code to network tuners who can then offer aftermarket packages, either way is "winning".

Of course, in terms of being on topic, if SRT does release a power package, I'm sure MT will find a way to test as being slower than the new VW GTI. lol

Cracking it would involve removing a unit, connecting it to a computer, loading the software on it and reverse engineering it. Not sure what type of security they opted for on their ECU but if it hasn't been crack in 5 years I'd guess it's just a lack of effort. If there was a big effort and the software wasn't cracked then Mopar needs to have a chat with the NSA and tell the NSA something they don't already know.

I think Mopar's big concerns with the ECU are the proprietary info as well as potential warranty claims caused by bad tuning practices. Probably some degree of corporate politics playing a role in whether or not an open ECU is released.