In the market for a Gen II GTS model and have a question about parts aging

[loliea]

Hi first post here
I am looking to join the Viper owner club and I am in a market for a Gen II, GTS model more precisely. I know these cars are built to last but as they are now at least 10 years old I was wondering how the different parts were aging. More precisely I was thinking about:
- Hoses (cooling hoses, brake lines etc...)
- Different pumps (water, power sterring, fuel)
- Electric cables (to spark plugs, other...)
- Alternator, injectors and coils
- Braking system (caliper guides, servo, etc...)
Anything else?

Friday I had a look at and test drove (OMG I am hooked) a 1999 GTS ACR without any maintenance document which make me nervous...
Thank you.

 

[Camfab]

It really depends on how it was driven as well as maintained. Viper parts are very expensive, however the one's you've listed are pretty reasonable. What I would suggest is that you take the car to a certified Viper tec. Paying a few hundred bucks up front can save you thousands down the road. If you check out Viper Parts of America you can look up the cost of the parts you've listed and get an idea of there cost. Factory fluids are the way to go, and if you buy a '99 ACR expect at the very least to change ALL the fluids. Be prepared to spend at least $500 for all the fluids at the parts counter. If you can't turn a wrench, figure $1,000 to have all the fluids changed. Brake fluid ,cooling system, clutch fluid, tranny fluid, power steering, differential fluid, engine oil, plus filter. Fuel filter is also a good call, but that's more $. Spark plugs are the cheapest thing on a Viper, spark plug wires are not and they should be replaced often.

The Koni shocks on a '99 ACR are the Koni 2812 shock. $3,000 a piece at the Dodge dealer. They tend to leak at every 10K miles, Koni charges $200 each for rebuilding, assuming they have no issues, that's also assuming you pulled the shocks and dropped them off. Viper's require a special alignment procedure that most shops are not willing to do or simply are not competent enough to perform.

Brakes and rotors are really cheap. What you should concern yourself with is every minute detail of the car. I can't stess this enough, what may seem like a small detail (a small tear in the weather stripping) could easily cost you a $1,000. Window regulators break fairly often, expect to pay $1,000 for parts and labor each time it happens. Rear hatch glass issues are becoming more common with age, figure another $1,000. What you save on a bargain car WILL bite you in the butt down the road.

The most important thing to remember, is that you are buying a 13 yr old exotic car. Be prepared for sticker shock.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Check out this recent thread...

What to look for in a used 99-02 GTS/ACR?

Post #8 in the above thread has a checklist that will be helpful.

A lot of what you are asking about depends on how the viper was driven. How many miles does it have? Does it have any engine modifications that might lead you to believe that it was a track car? Where has it been driven (this can be found using carfax)? Does the carfax have any issues listed? There was a water pump issue with '01 vipers, but not '99s. Hoses, lines, pumps, etc won't necessarily need to be replaced if the viper was well taken care of...a lot of these are very well taken care of. The vipers are like most other cars...if they're treated well, they last...the term 'bullet proof' is used often to describe the viper engine. Maintenance items like fluids, hoses, brakes, etc are treated the same as other cars, but the prices are a bit more, due the the relative low build numbers of vipers. The shocks need to be inspected by someone that knows what they're looking at/for.

Buy this book and read it...

Viper Buyer's Guide

 

[dave6666]

No maintenance records just take $2K off the price. All the fluids belts and hoses can be done for that.

 

[Mopar Boy]

First off, welcome to the VCA forums.


Secondly, where are you located? This is a global forum, and this info may change some of the suggestions. For example many areas in the world don't have Viper techs.


Thirdly, the above few posts have great info!

Do check the shocks, they all leak at somepoint.
Do check the letting on the calipers. White is street driven, yellowish is caused by heat buildup from tracking.
Check brake fluid color. Should look like honey. If its black, can be age but also could have been some heavier use.
Check coolant color. Is it brownish? Shouldn't be.
Check oil color. If its black, why is it black? How long ago was the last change? Is there a sticker in the window with last change?
Check seat side bolsters for wear. Getting in and out of a viper does take a toll on the side edges.
Check rims. Very common is curb rash. Aka wheels rubbed on curbs. Does that bother you? Would irritate the hell out of me if on my car.
Get down on hands and knees and check under front end. Look at the plastic facia. There is a lip that sticks down. Is it chewed up? Careless drivers scrape these frequently leaving their mark.
And as previously mentioned, see a Viper tech. Notice I did not say a dealer. I said viper tech. All dealers will say they can inspect but most do not have experience with Vipers and therefore don't know what to look for.
Also do some homework. Contact the VCA president of the area the car is in. Most have good tabs on the cars in his area and should be able to give you some history on it. May I also suggest posting a link here? Many may also know of the car.

Lastly, check for paint overspray. Vipers are painted in pieces at the factory. There should be zero overspray on a Viper.

Robert


EDIT: As for your other questions, yes all the parts you listed are avaiable.

 

[loliea]

Thank you Camfab for the detailed answer. I am potent with a wrench and have experience working on replacing the cooling system, braking system, replacing shocks and other small jobs on my 2002 BMW M3.
For the shocks I am surprised that they are leaking and have to be checked every 10k miles. Wouldn’t it be better to just replace them by new and more reliable ones?

Check out this recent thread...
What to look for in a used 99-02 GTS/ACR?
Post #8 in the above thread has a checklist that will be helpful.

Thanks for the link LifeIsGood , I read that thread before posting and found valuable info. I used some of it in fact to create a check list before reviewing the 99 GTS ACR last Friday. I’ll get the book you recommended Monday (I have the same book for 911, very well made and useful).

No maintenance records just take $2K off the price. All the fluids belts and hoses can be done for that.

Well I was thinking even less than that ... The belts for sure have to be changed (discolored and cracked), the paint has small nicks, and the stripes are low cost vinyl that have bubbles and are pealing in some areas.
I might even wait one more month to have enough $$$ for this one or this one.

First off, welcome to the VCA forums.
Secondly, where are you located?
Thirdly, the above few posts have great info!

Thank you for the warm welcome Mopar Boy . I am in the Bay Area and I was recommended to go to Valaya Racing in San Jose.
This is the car I saw last Friday. I will reached out to local Viper clubs
http://www.starcitymotors.com/inventory/view/2291781

 

[AZTVR]

For the shocks I am surprised that they are leaking and have to be checked every 10k miles. Wouldn’t it be better to just replace them by new and more reliable ones?

The ACR had race shocks suitable for very serious track work. Reportedly, they have looser tolerances on seals for better performance. As a result, they are more prone to leaking at lower mileage, and were designed for race teams that rebuild them periodically. This was reported for the Dynamics Suspensions shocks, for sure. I don't know if the Koni race shocks in the earlier ACRs fall in the same category.

Why would you rebuild rather than replace? Well, the two things that make the ACR and ACR are the shocks and the wheels. If you are going to replace, then, you might as well shop for a non-ACR unless prices are comparable for the specific cars available during your purchase window.

 

[ViperTony]

Well I was thinking even less than that ... The belts for sure have to be changed (discolored and cracked), the paint has small nicks, and the stripes are low cost vinyl that have bubbles and are pealing in some areas.
I might even wait one more month to have enough $$$ for this one or this one.

Regarding the vinyl stripes, you can restripe it in vinyl again, paint them on or take them off completely. I'd be worried about the color of the paint under the vinyl if you're considering removing the stripes altogether: i.e. paint fade. Is the vinyl bubbling or is it the paint under the vinyl? Etc.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Generally, an aspect or advice could be that Southern cars don't age well in the sun and heat, sagging fascias, UV exposure damage on plastic parts, weatherstrip seals, etc.. This is typical for any car with plastic parts, as when I was restoring old muscle cars, the best plastic parts (like exterior light lenses, dashboards, etc..) were from cars up North and good sheetmetal was from down South. Obviously most people don't driver Vipers in the winter up North on salty roads, so I would suggest shopping for a GTS up North / Mid East or West or basically if it's been in the South or North stored indoors to find the best quality regarding this aspect for your money.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[loliea]

Why would you rebuild rather than replace? Well, the two things that make the ACR and ACR are the shocks and the wheels. If you are going to replace, then, you might as well shop for a non-ACR unless prices are comparable for the specific cars available during your purchase window.

You have a good point RE getting an non ACR car if I am thinking about replacing the shocks. On top of that the original harness will have to be replaced as their date of certification has passed.
I love the ACR wheels though.

 

[loliea]

Regarding the vinyl stripes, you can restripe it in vinyl again, paint them on or take them off completely. I'd be worried about the color of the paint under the vinyl if you're considering removing the stripes altogether: i.e. paint fade. Is the vinyl bubbling or is it the paint under the vinyl? Etc.

Yes the Vinyl is bubbling.
My assumption was that the factory stripes were painted on the car, and thus these vinyl stripes were not original. Is that correct?

 

[loliea]

Mike -- I was thinking about plastic aging looking at how much heat is generated by this big engine. After test driving the car for 10 minutes I could really feel (and smell) the heat coming from the front fo the car. This heat was compounds with the one of the hi flow cats running in the door sils (the warning sticker on both side was depigmented).

 

[AZTVR]

On top of that the original harness will have to be replaced as their date of certification has passed.

Regular HPDE outfits (like Speedventures) do not check harness dates for HPDE drivers. I do not think that they have any rules for that. I believe that only the racing groups would be regulating harness replacement dates.

My assumption was that the factory stripes were painted on the car, and thus these vinyl stripes were not original. Is that correct?

Correct.