Intercoolers - what type is best?
- Thread starter 96 GTS
- Start date
HP
Enthusiast
I'm not an expert on the subject, but my take on it is-
Even though water is a better medium to transfer heat, in this case, air cooling, usually wins out. Its simpler, lighter, and incoming air(even if less efficient) is cooler than the water
exchange that would be used as an alternative
Even though water is a better medium to transfer heat, in this case, air cooling, usually wins out. Its simpler, lighter, and incoming air(even if less efficient) is cooler than the water
exchange that would be used as an alternative
SmokinV10
Enthusiast
I have had many Ultra high horsepower Turbocharged and intercooled engines. You will find that in a drag racing application, the water to air intercoolers out perfom the air to air intercoolers. This is true as long as it is a self contained cooling system. Ice will need to be added to the cooling liquid and changed between runs. However, in a daily driver, or a street car, an air to air intercooler is better. It is impractical to have an extra dedicated tank for the cooling water and constantly be addding ice. When the water heats in the water to air cooler, its performance degrades. As far as air to air intercoolers go, all cores are not created equal. Many of the ricers have VERY advanced front mounted intercooler cores.
Eddie N
Enthusiast
i am in shock.. 2 thumbs up for smokin dishin out some tech advice!!
as smokin already stated, air to water is better for the track (quarter mile at a time) and air to air is better for the street.. an air to water intercooler would be heat soaked within a few miles on a street car..
finding a decent core is the easy part, mounting it and piping is where it gets tricky and expensive.. who is going to be doing the install?
- eddie -
as smokin already stated, air to water is better for the track (quarter mile at a time) and air to air is better for the street.. an air to water intercooler would be heat soaked within a few miles on a street car..
finding a decent core is the easy part, mounting it and piping is where it gets tricky and expensive.. who is going to be doing the install?
- eddie -
varanus
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eddie N:
i am in shock.. 2 thumbs up for smokin dishin out some tech advice!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Naw, he's hidin a flame in there somewhere
i am in shock.. 2 thumbs up for smokin dishin out some tech advice!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Naw, he's hidin a flame in there somewhere
SmokinV10
Enthusiast
The import guys use APEX cores on their cars with great sucess...apparently the profile of the core improves the boundary layer characteristics of air flowing into the core. Spearco is an OK choice..but these guys are squeezing 100's of HP per liter out of their engines...food for thought.
John Moore
Enthusiast
There are air to air, air to water, and air to water with a heat exchanger (air to water to air if you will.) Maserati built a twin turbo years ago with an air to water system that used an additional radiator core to cool the heat soaked intercooler water. It was nearly as effective as an air to air and was needed because of space and packaging requirements. Drag racers overwhelmingly prefer air to water because of the ability use ice and road racers and street cars almost exclusively use air to air because of their simplicity and efficiency while moving.
Because of space and packaging the "air to water to air" system would definitely protect the car from the sawz-all and torch approach. Air to water would be the system of choice for the ********* drag racer that is willing to put up with the hassel of draining water and replacing it with ice after every pass. The current air to air technology has made some significant efficiency strides recently (with respect to core designs) and appears to be the most applicable for the most situations. It will however, require some permanent alterations to the car as there just isn't enough room for the kind of air volume needed for a blown 8.0.
Rob Tynmann at Axis Industries is working on the above as we speak.
Because of space and packaging the "air to water to air" system would definitely protect the car from the sawz-all and torch approach. Air to water would be the system of choice for the ********* drag racer that is willing to put up with the hassel of draining water and replacing it with ice after every pass. The current air to air technology has made some significant efficiency strides recently (with respect to core designs) and appears to be the most applicable for the most situations. It will however, require some permanent alterations to the car as there just isn't enough room for the kind of air volume needed for a blown 8.0.
Rob Tynmann at Axis Industries is working on the above as we speak.
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 96 GTS:
If a Gen II motor is supercharged with a Vortech type supercharger, what are the advantages/disadvantages of an air to air intercooler versus an air to water intercooler?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It basically boils down to a few critical decisions that affect "Delta-T":
Are you dragging or road racing with plenty of time to cool in between rounds or corners, or needing consistent power levels under all situations?
In the diesel business, they speak of Air to Air After-Cooling (ATAAC) or Jacket Water After-Cooling (JWAC). For average steady-state conditions (marine and stationary power), JWAC will provide best average HP under load than AATAC because you reach a consistent thermal balance. Mobile applications favor ATAAC, which is very dependent on the temperature, pressure and humidity of the ambient air moving through the heat exchanger. AATAC power levels are much more variable but are capable of higher specific power levels at narrower ambient conditions.
The static pressure drop of the air thru the cooler on an ATAAC system has to be weighed against deltaT of the charge air mass. Street cars are far less sensitive than racecars because of speed/drag considerations. Back in the early to mid-'80's, the F1 turbo guys used to pack the intercoolers with dry ice on the grid to maximize O2 concentrations without worrying about water dripping in front of their slicks.
If a Gen II motor is supercharged with a Vortech type supercharger, what are the advantages/disadvantages of an air to air intercooler versus an air to water intercooler?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It basically boils down to a few critical decisions that affect "Delta-T":
Are you dragging or road racing with plenty of time to cool in between rounds or corners, or needing consistent power levels under all situations?
In the diesel business, they speak of Air to Air After-Cooling (ATAAC) or Jacket Water After-Cooling (JWAC). For average steady-state conditions (marine and stationary power), JWAC will provide best average HP under load than AATAC because you reach a consistent thermal balance. Mobile applications favor ATAAC, which is very dependent on the temperature, pressure and humidity of the ambient air moving through the heat exchanger. AATAC power levels are much more variable but are capable of higher specific power levels at narrower ambient conditions.
The static pressure drop of the air thru the cooler on an ATAAC system has to be weighed against deltaT of the charge air mass. Street cars are far less sensitive than racecars because of speed/drag considerations. Back in the early to mid-'80's, the F1 turbo guys used to pack the intercoolers with dry ice on the grid to maximize O2 concentrations without worrying about water dripping in front of their slicks.
