Is '09 the end of the Viper?

[tcslc]

I just finished reading an article by Colin Comer in the latest issues of SCM on Viper collectibility. He states that numerous indiders say that '09 will be the last year of the Viper. Can anybody confirm/deny this statement?

 

[Bobpantax]

Deny. 2010 is the earliest our beloved snake will be discontinued if it is going to be discontinued.

 

[DEKE01]

All Vipers have a timer built in to the ignition system. Sometime in the latter half of 2009 all Vipers will explode.

This is coming from a highly reliable source - ME. And you read it on the Internet, so it must be true.

 

[GTSRboy2000]

^LMAO good one!!

Yea i wouldnt get worried about the Viper being discontinued untill Chrysler says somthing about it..but its also no secret that they not doing good right now so i could happen

 

[jessewallace]

i completely agree w/the 2010 scenario being the earliest possible termination date of production. even if, in a worst case scenario, dodge didn't sell a single 09, they would still put out a 2010 final edition of some sort.

you don't completely redesign your car & only build it for 2 yrs.
it's waaaaaaaay too short of a run.
even if things are coming to an end.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Reports from the field are that the new 600 hp Viper gets pretty good fuel economy.

On a trip to the Silver State Challenge a not yet broken in Viper got over 22mpg cruising at pretty significant speeds.

Compared to the real problems vehicles like trucks and SUVs the American built sports cars like Vette and Viper are pretty good in the mileage department.

My Vipers (even supercharged) always got better mileage than my Jeeps.

 

[MoparMan]

Deny. Word has it that 2010 will be a complete production year and that 2011 will be a special edition of the car to end it. This assumes Cerberus doesn't wise up and realize the value of the car to the company.

 

[tcslc]

It would be interesting to know how Cerebus valued the Viper when making their buy. Although 2 years might be too short under ordinary business circumstances, it is likely that the value Cerebus placed on this platform was already depreciated, thereby allowing them to kill the program at will with little or no impact - again, dependent on their initial valuation of the platform.

 

[DEKE01]

It would be interesting to know how Cerebus valued the Viper when making their buy. Although 2 years might be too short under ordinary business circumstances, it is likely that the value Cerebus placed on this platform was already depreciated, thereby allowing them to kill the program at will with little or no impact - again, dependent on their initial valuation of the platform.

I've never been in the auto manufacturing biz, but I have been a CFO a nd bought and sold companies. What you're saying makes no sense to me.

If I was a Cerebus partner, all I would care about is, does the Viper make me money NOW. Cerebus most likely plans on selling the company within 3 - 5 years and to get the best price, they need a profitable company.

 

[IEATVETS]

According to the newest issue of Viper magazine and I quote, "The key question, can it survive in its present form? The simple answer is yes, it can(and will) for the near future. Too much has been invested to summarily terminate such an important symbol of Chrysler. Yet, we would be foolish to think any product is truly forever (or even beyond the typical 3 year model cycle)."
Whatever the "near future" means, I do not know but sounds like the Viper will be around for at least a few more years.

 

[daveat]

nobody knows when the end will be... as of right now the 09 crash car was made and i think was passed... but for 2010 they have ALOT more crash ratings to meet and nobody knows if they have a crash car built yet. they will already be adding a substantial weight to the 09 car to meet the new safty standards and nobody knows what will have to change to meet the 2010 standards...

thats just what i heard and nobody knows what that means

 

[Les Quam]

Colin was simply repeating what other automotive media reporters have stated. Colin has NO new information or "inside" information. His intent was to mock the self proclaimed "insiders" who wish to always remain anonymous regarding their so called inside information. The article was a rebuff to his editor who asked him to write a hatchet job on the Viper. Colin a three time Viper owner and current Original Cobra owner refused and wrote what I think is one of the best articles ever written on the Viper.

Here is a direct link. http://www.colinsclassicauto.com/Dom...s--07.2008.pdf

 

[daveat]

That is an excellent write up.

 

[Vipermann]

I smell Trolls here, non-owners, with very few posts ...trying to spread negative rumors.

The depreciation comment is highly uninformed. The Viper, relative to other vehicles, is largely hand-built, and less capital intensive. Thus, depreciation, relative to other vehilcle capital decisions is far less of a factor. Tooling for parts is also largely depreciated, as the 2009 Viper is still based upon the 2003 model. Thus, most of the tooling costs (except the engine parts) have been significantly depreciated and expensed in prior years. The current Viper is probably more profitable than it was in 2003, and less attractive to be discontinued.

 

[Joe Dozzo]

I was one who thought 2008 was the end of the line, so I bought one. Wrong reason, but still a great car! Long live the Viper!

 

[Coloviper]

Not into the whole end of the world thing as I have been there and done that. That is why an 06' Coupe is in my garage. Bought into the hype.

However saying that, the new engine is certified only through the 2009 model year (was only a two year certification). Why only two years if you are investing the money to do the certification anyway?

I can see where the street car (for North America) might die in another year, BUT the comp coupe cars could be build for some time yet on an as needed basis. Think Saleen S7 and the recertification of the twin turbo motor, which was only certified two years for North America, BUT they are still producing them for a few more years for other parts of the world.

With enough money, anyone will build you a race car. If the street version goes, it goes. I am lucky enough to have one, so that is all I need to know for now.

 

[wastntim]

From what I had heard, it all revolves around safety emissions standards, which the Viper exec's said they pushed as far as they could go. The question is whether they are ready to add in all of these new necessary components.

 

[tcslc]

Good commentary all. To your comments Vipermann, I was a Gen I '93 owner and it still stands out as one of my top rides - always engaging, and always demanding. My son, who was only 4 at the time I sold that car, still refers back to it as his favorite (I bought the car in 2001 with 4400 miles on the clock). Presently, I have on '08 on order with Bill P. after deciding to go new instead of continuing to chase a barn find '67 427 Vette that I've been trying to pry from the owner for about the past six months. I've owned a lot of Ford muscle in between as well, and still own a '07 GT500 that I bought new in August '06, and I just recently sold my '07 Superbee (#942). Yes, I love cars, and I love them from all the manufacturers.

My intention on this thread is to look at what various people are saying and have a discussion about it. I'm not bashing the Viper (obviously, I love the car too), but I am concerned regarding its future - including parts availability - when I read about its impending demise. It's a shame when people call into question an individual's credibility because they are suggesting we look at things both with and without our rose colored glasses on.

Corporate profitability on the Viper unknown (at least to me), there are other factors involved here: Does Chrysler still need a Viper in the days of $4 gas, a bad economy, and a growing mindset around being "green"? It's a halo car to enthusiasts, but the very idea of what makes a halo car may be changing as we speak.

I'm buying in '08 because I loved my Gen I, view this as the height of the second coming of the muscle car era, and believe that the bottom will drop out soon just as it did in '72. The question is how soon...

Thanks to all for listening to my rant.

 

[MoparMan]

I smell Trolls here, non-owners, with very few posts ...trying to spread negative rumors.

The depreciation comment is highly uninformed. The Viper, relative to other vehicles, is largely hand-built, and less capital intensive. Thus, depreciation, relative to other vehilcle capital decisions is far less of a factor. Tooling for parts is also largely depreciated, as the 2009 Viper is still based upon the 2003 model. Thus, most of the tooling costs (except the engine parts) have been significantly depreciated and expensed in prior years. The current Viper is probably more profitable than it was in 2003, and less attractive to be discontinued.

Agree with what said but with one addition: you're forgetting the investment made into the platform in the form of non-recurring engineering (i.e.: research, development, testing, etc) that has to be done long before the final product is ready for production. I would guess the bulk of this expenditure was realized before the Cerberus takeover meaning that the Cerberus bean counters may not care about the dev costs.

One thing I think they're missing is the image and marketing value the Viper can bring to Chrysler Corp when properly used as the flagship of the company. The car has not been used in this way since Daimler came along. Maybe Cerberus appointed management will realize the gains beyond money to be made with the Viper and spend what's required to keep it around for a while longer.

 

[Vipermann]

One thing I think they're missing is the image and marketing value the Viper can bring to Chrysler Corp when properly used as the flagship of the company. The car has not been used in this way since Daimler came along. Maybe Cerberus appointed management will realize the gains beyond money to be made with the Viper and spend what's required to keep it around for a while longer.

Yep.

I asked and was told that SRT vehicles are excluded from the $2.99 gas promotion. That's probably why you don't see any SRT vehicles in those promo ads on TV (about the only ads that Dodge has these days). The SRT vehicles remain one of the few interesting areas within the Dodge product line-up. It's short-sighted of Cerberus to not feature them in any and all promotional activies.

 

[dave6666]

I heard that in 2010 it will be a two stroke motor. It will be called the SRT10-2. That's just what I heard.

 

[RMBSRT]

Maybe we should be asking" Is this the end of the V-10 Viper?" I would not be suprised if Dodge went with a Hemi Hybrid Viper...sounds crazy I know....but it is possible.

 

[RedLiner]

Maybe if we are real lucky they will build us a twin turbo cummins diesel Viper putting out 800HP and 1200 ft lbs tq and get 25 mpg??

 

[Vipermann]

It's a shame when people call into question an individual's credibility because they are suggesting we look at things both with and without our rose colored glasses on.

Corporate profitability on the Viper unknown (at least to me), there are other factors involved here: Does Chrysler still need a Viper in the days of $4 gas, a bad economy, and a growing mindset around being "green"? It's a halo car to enthusiasts, but the very idea of what makes a halo car may be changing as we speak.

I'm buying in '08 because I loved my Gen I, view this as the height of the second coming of the muscle car era, and believe that the bottom will drop out soon just as it did in '72. The question is how soon...

Umm, no, it's not really a shame. You might want to rethink posing such a question after only 7 posts. After all, this is a site dedicated to 'ENTHUSIASM' for the Viper. Do you really think nobody else here has thought about the issues you raise? With 7 posts, you've found a gap in our collective thinking?

I am buying my '08 for many of the same reasons regarding the future. An instant collector's car. But also along with the Viper, the 'deja '72' jeopardy list must also include the following cars:

Lambos ... are they really needed in today's world?
Vettes ... does the world still need 500HP wrapped in plastic?
Ferrari's ... so yesterday
Any 'M' or 'AMG' model BMW or Mercedes ... just out of step
2010 Camaro ... now seems like Vette backwash
Nissan GT-R ... sorry, no more sequels to Fast and Furious
Any Porsche ... there may indeed now be 'a substitute' (Prius with a rear spoiler?)

~out

 

[Flash1034]

I wouldn't bag too much on Porsche. They may have had it right all along. A "supercar" with an economical and high output 6 cyl motor.

Flash

Umm, no, it's not really a shame. You might want to rethink posing such a question after only 7 posts. After all, this is a site dedicated to 'ENTHUSIASM' for the Viper. Do you really think nobody else here has thought about the issues you raise? With 7 posts, you've found a gap in our collective thinking?

I am buying my '08 for many of the same reasons regarding the future. An instant collector's car. But also along with the Viper, the 'deja '72' jeopardy list must also include the following cars:

Lambos ... are they really needed in today's world?
Vettes ... does the world still need 500HP wrapped in plastic?
Ferrari's ... so yesterday
Any 'M' or 'AMG' model BMW or Mercedes ... just out of step
2010 Camaro ... now seems like Vette backwash
Nissan GT-R ... sorry, no more sequels to Fast and Furious
Any Porsche ... there may indeed now be 'a substitute' (Prius with a rear spoiler?)

 

[Vipermann]

I wouldn't bag too much on Porsche. They may have had it right all along. A "supercar" with an economical and high output 6 cyl motor.

Flash

Yeah, I know, just seemed to fit with the flow...

 

[JonB]

...I was one who thought 2008 was the end of the line, so I bought one. Wrong reason, but still a great car! Long live the Viper...!

hey JOE! I thought you and I were the end of the line.................... Jon

 

[tcslc]

Vipermann - you may want to consider engendering some etiquette, because the number of posts on a club newsgroup is not a reflection of a person's qualifications to surface a topic. I'm not saying this is a new topic, but if you look back you may see that I started the thread based on new information - at least to me - in a recent article published by Colin Comer who is respected in the field of collector cars. Consider if this was a friendly bar conversation - would you be as likely to call someone a troll simply because they just arrived at the bar and joined in a conversation? Quite frankly, for a club known to have a great reputation in the hobby, your responses reflect poorly as an ambassador of this group.


You do bring up an interesting point with some of the cars mentioned, yet others do not follow the logic of this thread. Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari are manufacturers whose prime objective is to build and sell performance vehicles. This is not true of Chrysler. Chrysler falls into the mainstream, but unlike recent Nissan adverstisements and incessant Chevrolet advertisements, Chrysler does not advertise the Viper as its halo car. There is no "I'm buying a piece of a Viper when I buy a {insert standard model here}". Walk into any Chevrolet dealer, and they probably have a Corvette on the showroom floor. All Vipers are supposed to be customer sold orders only - ie no showroom traffic. That seems like an intersting juxtaposition for a company that would want to keep a halo car like the Viper around. But, then again, according to some folks logic I shouldn't mention this and only say "rah, rah Viper".

I sure do hope the emperor's new clothes fit.

 

[Vipermann]

Vipermann - you may want to consider engendering some etiquette, because the number of posts on a club newsgroup is not a reflection of a person's qualifications to surface a topic. I'm not saying this is a new topic, but if you look back you may see that I started the thread based on new information - at least to me - in a recent article published by Colin Comer who is respected in the field of collector cars. Consider if this was a friendly bar conversation - would you be as likely to call someone a troll simply because they just arrived at the bar and joined in a conversation? Quite frankly, for a club known to have a great reputation in the hobby, your responses reflect poorly as an ambassador of this group.

If you sat down at the bar, I'd probably get up and walk away.

Don't sugarcoat your BS now. The title of this thread: "IS '09 THE END OF THE VIPER?" is hardly the way to get to be known in a new group that is dedicated to Vipers. Especially when there have already been plenty of prior threads on the topic (which you obviously did not bother to search). Your purpose here was to stir up s**t. Just admit it.

Nobody likes it when somebody doesn't show enough respect to recognize their own 'newbe' status when joining an established group.

Your arguements assume a lot. You may have heard the 'halo' term thrown around quite a bit, but frankly, it is overused and misused. The Corvette is not really a 'Halo' product. The Ford GT was a halo product, the Vette is not. As a branded manufacturer, in any consumer category, you do not have a halo product when you invest a TON of ongoing R&D in that product and while the rest of your product line is all things to all people (e.g. Chevy). There is no Vette character in a Chevy Tahoe. In fact, the Corvette, because of it's huge capital requirements, must continue to sell enough to justify itself on a stand-alone basis. If Vette sales drop by 50% in this new environment, it might be gone. But if the Viper, with largely variable, hand-built costs, drops from 1400 to 700 units, Dodge could keep it around because it's so small, that it's not the bigger issue/problem that a declining Vette program would represent to Chevy. (Cerberus may be on worse financial shape right now, but that's a different issue.) The Viper can help in other ways, dealer/customer relationships, for example. I've bought other cars from my Viper dealer, including Fords and other makes. The role of halo products in any brand identity strategy is actually very complex, but I'll leave it there.

And, btw, your cocky "emperor's joke" was stupid and insulting. Folks here don't plunk down $90k+ for a car without their own ideas as to the pros and cons of other vehicle alternatives. They are here because the chose the Viper anyway. Nobody needs you to think for them, on their behalf, as you seem to think you are uniquely qualified to do.

And btw, welcome.

 

[dave6666]

Maybe if we are real lucky they will build us a twin turbo cummins diesel Viper putting out 800HP and 1200 ft lbs tq and get 25 mpg??

Oh yeah, the street clearing cloud of black smoke will be really becoming of a sports car.