Jon B is going to be very angry with me : < ( (long)

[Paul Hawker]

I called Jon B a couple weeks ago to get his suggestion on new tires for my 09 Coupe. I had read about the new Pilot Supersports, and he was the only one I knew that had experience with them on Vipers. (naturally).

I have a lowered (KW Variant II shocks) car, and was running Nitto Revos as they were the tires that came on the car when I purchased it. (used).

The Nitto's were 345/25/20's in back and 275/30/19's up front.

Jon told me of a customer that was really happpy with installing puting wider (295/30/19) tires up front, as the on ACR-X. Sounded great to me.

Jon, as usual had the best prices and could save me the California sales taxes, and could ship them directly to my office, or to the installation shop of my choice. He even researched several shops to locate one with specific Hunter high end road force balancing equipment to do the best possible mounting and balancing.

I told Jon that I would check out the various shops and tell him where to send the tires. At this point he would most certaintly have assumed I was going to order my tires from Parts Rack, and that he was going to get the sale.

I need to apologize to Jon right here (expecially after calling him on one of his famous Mondays, when he had a cold, and was getting ready to travel to Florida to work the Pace car duties at the Sebring event).

Took the car to several local installers, and they were all worried about putting on the higher profile (345/30/20's) on the rear. They were all worried about rubbing, as their computers told them that the fitment was too large.

I was worried about Parts Rack shipping me the tires, and that I might have problems with them rubbing.

I went to Temecula to confer with our local tuner that also expressed concerns, but assured me that he had a great tire guy, and that combined with the adjustability on my suspension that they could get something to work.

Feeling lousy all the time about not giving Jon my business (that he had well and properly earned) I gulped hard and put my faith in our local tuner and gave him the go ahead.

I ended spending several hundred dollars more than Jon had quoted me, and knew that he would have every right to be upset with me for ordering from someone else after he had given me much great advice and more than competitive pricing.

Went to the tire shop where they had a legendary tire and wheel specialist (Hal). He looked over the car and gave me a thumbs up on the higher profile rear tires. Said the car probably should be raised up a bit to avoid rubbing, but the higher profile tires filled out the wheel wells so beautifully, that ended up being no problem.

In the end the problem turned out to be the front tires. I wanted to upgrade to wider fronts, but upon measurement, my 360 forged fronts wheels were ony 9.5 inches wide, not the standard 10". No way the wider fronts were going to work well being scruched on such a small rim.

End of story, The rears supersports fit great. The fronts had to remain stock width, and the car needed to be raised up a bit and realigned.

So for Jon, on this also Monday morning, I need to say thank you for your sage advice, and hope you will understand what happened.

Sequel: Took the Viper up the back roads to Julian. It road much smoother and quieter than the worn out Evos's and stuck like glue. These Pilot Super Sports are the real deal. While fittment takes some extra effort, the results were exactly what I hoped they would be.

Hope I did not screw up another of Jon's Mondays

 

[KNG SNKE]

Pilot Super Sports? Didn't know they were released already.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Yes. The Pilot Super Sports have been released, but not in stock Viper friendly sizes.

They are the standard tires on the new Ferrari F4.

According to the Michelin website they are lighter, and have newer technology to keep the tire flatter on the road, and resist crowning. Better mileage, lower weight, cooler running, better wear, especially under track usage, and much higher cornering forces. I have read reports that they approach sport cups in grip while returning better track life, as well as offering far superior wet performance.

Since I am running 19/20 360 rims, they had my sizes available right now. (not yet released for stock 18/19 sizes).

With only a few hundred miles on them so far I am very impressed. They run quiet, and smooth. Corner at greater speeds, with solid control, and I have yet to find their limits.

Think these will become pretty popular on Vipers as the release more fittments.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Post some photos of the side walls and tread mounted up on your car

 

[ViperTony]

Any pics of the Super Sports installed?

 

[wikkid]

Can only wonder what thesetires cost

 

[Coloviper]

Call Michelin 1 month ago and was told they evaluate in Jan of next year 2012 on whether they will offer then in stock Viper sizes. Not a given. This technology is light years ahead of old Pilots, PS2, Cups, etc Same tech on Latitudes which I have experience on my Cayennes. Really upsets me that Michelin is playing with us like this, but the tire is the real deal.

 

[JonB]

While we did not realize Paul has 9.5" wide fronts, I still think that the 20mm front wider tire (.75") would easily fit on a 13mm narrrower wheel.
"The Book Says" that a 295 width fits on a 10"- 11"...... but a 9.5" would be so-dang-close that I would have used it. LOTS of owners and track-rats are putting 305s and even 315s on oe 10" wide wheels, despite what the 'book says.' Did Hal mount ONE ?

Ironic that 19-20 PSS are available now, with 2 front options, but NOT the more mainstream sizes. Whilst I was at Sebring, I spoke to the Michelin Motorpsorts rep there, who stated that the PSS tires are slowly being integrated into the most populer sizes first ( read as NOT Viper 18 rears or 19 rears) and that Viper sizes of PSS rears could be produced perhaps by the end of 2011.

NO, dont even think about mis-matching PSS fronts and PS-2 rears as a customer wanted yesterday. Making the front of a Viper handle and brake differently than the rear of that Viper is a formula to swap ends during 'panic' maneuvers.....

I dont have the pleasure of knowing most of my customers on-sight, but Ive known Paul Hawker for more than 15 years. And in-person, too. He's been my customer, and Ive even been his. Part of my job is sharing opinions and 18 yrs Viper experience with my fellow owners, and having them appreciate and follow that advice. While I cannot take that warm and fuzzy feeling to the bank, its still the best part of my job. So, Paul, glad you got the PSS and thanks for the evaluation..........[ you sponging, freeloading SOB! ]

 

[ViperGeorge]

I recently spoke directly with the lead engineer on the new Viper, actually spent quite a bit of time with him. He was the vehicle dynamic engineer on previous Vipers (i.e. responsible for springs, tires, shocks, etc). He said that the Viper PS2s have the same compound as the Sports and that there was NO advantage to moving to them even if they were available. Tire geeks will recognize that the same tire design actually comes in different compounds depending on the car. You can find PS2s that are the same size as the Viper's tires but have a different designation. The Viper tire has (I believe) a "C1" designation on the sidewall. The same size tire exists for a Mercedes but carries a different designation. You will also see this on the Tire Rack website where it will actually say next to the tire listing "Viper" or "Mercedes" or "whatever". The engineer told me that the tires are specifically tuned to the car as they contribute to spring rates and handling characteristics. In other words, the shocks, springs, tires are all part of the suspension package. This is why other suspension components were changed when they went from the Run Flats on the Gen 3s to the PS2s on the Gen 4, the tires had different spring rates. Differences may be subtle but they are there.