Kenne Bell 3.6 ltr Blower
- Thread starter EllowViper
- Start date
pS PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT RUNNING 9S LIKE ITS NOTHING .If you do plan on going anywhere deep into the 10s(MUCH LESS THAN 9S) you had better consult the NHRA RULEBOOK.Off the top of my head you will need a FULLY APPROVED 10 POINT CAGE (not a bar )battery shut off ,paracute ,skattershield ect firesuit(a lot of these items will destroy resaleability of your Viper ).Your not going to walk in run into the 10s and not get noticed .(BESIDES its going to require NUMERIOUS practice runs ect so dont think FIRST TIME out pop a 9 ,get thrown out and go home )
KNG SNKE
Enthusiast
Depends on how hot she is!
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
I guess iam not the only one .Eddie,
I always kept the stock half shafts as my fuse, or weak link, in the drivetrain. I figured its easier and cheaper to replace a half shaft rather than the rearend or trans. With better tires, you may risk breaking if you get wheel hop. Funny thing is the car never really suffered from wheel hop. I also loved hitting it in 3rd gear at 70mph and going sideways, although the wife hated it, thought I was not in control.
If a chunk of your broken halfshaft takes out your fuel line and/or your brakeline ...
NHRA has rules against not driveshaft loops as people get killed when their driveshafts etc. explode, flip cars, stick into the ground flipping cars over at highspeed, etc.
Back to subject of larger TS Blowers ...
I sent this link to a guy that already has done this. Hoping he'll post?
Ted
SO you put the loops on the car WITHOUT THE UPGRADED SHAFTS.If you run the slicks and the upgraded shafts SOONER OR LATER THE TRANNY AND REAR WILL GO.No one i repeat no one that has ever run a Viper hard at the track with slicks and upgraded shafts has not had rear end or tranny troubleand people should know of the exact consiquences BEFORE they decide on a upgrade like a shaft .The driveline was not made to last with the traction the slick provides.
i dont think 1TONY1 ever had any trans or rear issues with his car. im pretty sure he ran slicks but who knows...
it is a good point though. and people should be warned of it. but i dont think "most" guys run as hard or often as you did or are referring to.
it is a good point though. and people should be warned of it. but i dont think "most" guys run as hard or often as you did or are referring to.
I just like to warn people because a set of half shafts are nothing compared to a rear or tranny.Guys i raced with went thru 2 rears and a tranny a year and thats a ton of money .
Sneaky Pete
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2010
- Posts
- 218
- Reaction score
- 0
Point taken, so about blowers...
Ever seen a driveshaft punch a hole through the floor? Ever seen a clutch explode? Driveshaft loops are required but if you rely on them to save your ass - then you hope that they don't fail after the stock halfshafts that you kept in the car because they have a 99% chance of failure (even with street tires).
The idea of building a car is so that it won't break. I used a stock clutch to save my rear 800hp halfshafts. Now that JonB found me a set of reasonably priced Titanium half shafts I also bought a Spec Carbon Fiber clutch to increase the safety and reliability of my car. The stock clutch cannot take 9 sec runs even if you only use DRs.
Back to sueprchargers - the purpose of going to a bigger blower is to make more torque and hp with a higher reliability factor. these new larger blowers make more hp with less heat and detonation (safer). I think that probably everyone that has a Roe blower on their car (except a few 5# nontrack guys) has busted halfshafts and replaced them with stronger shafts, just like the SRT engineers did in the middle of 09. Hollow rear axles shafts now come on ACRs (and normal Vipers?). So newer 550rwhp stock Vipers come with factory upgraded axles. Obviously anything with 550rwhp (such as a 5# Roe) needs to be upgraded. My under 800rwhp baby Roe would eat stock axles probably evertime. By the fall my car will be running 800+ rwhp with a larger blower from Sean and probably some help from Larry Macedo.
I've also emailed a few guys here and this bigger blower cahngeover seems to be a simple upgrade.
Ted
Simms
Enthusiast
As an FYI for anyone, I've grenaded upgraded shafts before my trans and rear took a dump. Eventually, my limited slip melted itself into a spool and my trans broke.
I personally run upgraded shafts, half shaft loops, drive shaft loop, and a trans blanket. At some point I will get a MW rear.
Back on topic, I can't wait to see what someone comes up with to run a larger compressor!
I personally run upgraded shafts, half shaft loops, drive shaft loop, and a trans blanket. At some point I will get a MW rear.
Back on topic, I can't wait to see what someone comes up with to run a larger compressor!
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
Phil, I don't think the 2.8h was around when Sean first designed the kit with the 2.4 in it. I'm sure he would have done it if it was available. In fact, a little birdy told me he is playing with a 2.8h design as we speak
You dont RACE THE CAR OR RUN SLICKS =DIFFERENT WORLD
Thank you my point being if you want to put a Viper in the 9s one should expect to have very deep pockets .
Back to the Thread topic.......Superchargers.....
PLUM.... The new 3.6 incorporates an intercooler.... It is designed to use the radiator coolant.
This is new technology for these "roots" blowers. It wasn't available then.
SIMMS... Thanks for the offer of the Weaver pulley. Luckily, I am already running one.
I have been talking to Kenne Bell and the 3.6 isn't available just yet...
I also talked to them about incorporating a seperate water pump, heat exchanger etc for the intercooler system. KB thought that would allow the blower to run much cooler and even more efficient. "It would be an effort and expense to build but well worth it."
I'll post photos of the JMB "independant" intercooler system when completed....
I also spoke to KB about using my 2-stage nitrous system.
KBs response.... "Do it and keep in touch. It will be a monster with those cu. in."....
My engine arrived at Arrow this past Tuesday (2/16) Todd, at Arrow, told me 3 weeks at most to get back.
PLUM.... The new 3.6 incorporates an intercooler....
It is designed to use the radiator coolant.This is new technology for these "roots" blowers. It wasn't available then.
SIMMS... Thanks for the offer of the Weaver pulley. Luckily, I am already running one.
I have been talking to Kenne Bell and the 3.6 isn't available just yet...
I also talked to them about incorporating a seperate water pump, heat exchanger etc for the intercooler system. KB thought that would allow the blower to run much cooler and even more efficient. "It would be an effort and expense to build but well worth it."
I'll post photos of the JMB "independant" intercooler system when completed....
I also spoke to KB about using my 2-stage nitrous system.
KBs response.... "Do it and keep in touch. It will be a monster with those cu. in."....
My engine arrived at Arrow this past Tuesday (2/16) Todd, at Arrow, told me 3 weeks at most to get back.
Tree, that is the unit I'm most looking forward to seeing. your car is gonna be insane. I can't wait.
Trees car "could" possibly change my opinion on s/c's or at least that particular style.
Good luck my friend !
Trees car "could" possibly change my opinion on s/c's or at least that particular style.
Good luck my friend !
As i previously posted months ago Evan (Smith )had a few of them lying around his office if you want i will see if he wants to sell one if applicipleBack to the Thread topic.......Superchargers.....
PLUM.... The new 3.6 incorporates an intercooler....
This is new technology for these "roots" blowers. It wasn't available then.
SIMMS... Thanks for the offer of the Weaver pulley. Luckily, I am already running one.
I have been talking to Kenne Bell and the 3.6 isn't available just yet...
I also talked to them about incorporating a seperate water pump, heat exchanger etc for the intercooler system. KB thought that would allow the blower to run much cooler and even more efficient. "It would be an effort and expense to build but well worth it."
I'll post photos of the JMB "independant" intercooler system when completed....
I also spoke to KB about using my 2-stage nitrous system.
KBs response.... "Do it and keep in touch. It will be a monster with those cu. in."....
My engine arrived at Arrow this past Tuesday (2/16) Todd, at Arrow, told me 3 weeks at most to get back.
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Ordered the 2.8H this evening and am researching using Siemens DEKA IV #80 injectors. Should be a straight swap from the green tops according to the Mustang guys. Drive extension is a simple swap from the old to the new. Pics forthcoming once the unit arrives. Oh yea...Mrs. doesn't know yet...Glad Valentines Day was last weekend So...any bets as to the boost this will pump out? Was getting 13 psi on the 2.4 at the gauge. I would assume 4-5 more? I'll start a new thread once I get the parts in.
So...any bets as to the boost this will pump out? Was getting 13 psi on the 2.4 at the gauge. I would assume 4-5 more? I'll start a new thread once I get the parts in.EllowViper
Enthusiast
Oh yea...Sean offered to buy one for me at cost if Kenne Bell didn't come through so he is still all over this upgrade idea...just an issue of time and priorities. What a great guy and I can't express enough his support and encouragement on this project.
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
good luck Eric
you're really making it difficult for me to not take my s/c off and start measuring for the 2.8h, but then that 3.6 sounds tempting as well
you're really making it difficult for me to not take my s/c off and start measuring for the 2.8h, but then that 3.6 sounds tempting as well
Thanks but I'm doing a custom intercooler set up built for my car and the needs of my specific blower.
Possibly something for the 2.8s...?
Simms
Enthusiast
I have been talking to Kenne Bell and the 3.6 isn't available just yet...
I also talked to them about incorporating a seperate water pump, heat exchanger etc for the intercooler system. KB thought that would allow the blower to run much cooler and even more efficient. "It would be an effort and expense to build but well worth it."
I'll post photos of the JMB "independant" intercooler system when completed....
I like the sound of this!
good luck Eric
you're really making it difficult for me to not take my s/c off and start measuring for the 2.8h, but then that 3.6 sounds tempting as well
Depends what you want for a final outcome......
From a Kenne Bell comparison of 2.8 H and 3.6...
"Running both blowers at 15 psi, the 2.8L produced 643 hp while the 3.6L upped the ante to a peak of 674 hp, a difference of 31 hp. Remember this test was run at identical boost levels of 15 psi. Stepping things up to 23 psi resulted in 747 hp for the 2.8 and 832 hp for the 3.6L. The 3.6L offered an additional 76 hp over the 2.8L at 23 psi.
The final test was to illustrate what happens when you replace the 2.8L with the 3.6L using the same pulley size. Running both blowers with a 3.25-inch blower pulley resulted in 619 hp for the 2.8L at 13.5 psi and a whopping 774 hp for the 3.6L at 22.4 psi. Replacing the smaller blower with the larger one (run at the same blower speed) was worth an additional 155 hp.
With the capacity to support over 1,200 hp, these tests indicate that in the case of the 3.6L Kenne Bell, bigger is certainly better."
This above comparison is strictly a HP comparison. The new intercooler
is a HUGE diference as far as driveability and efficiency.
I'm a little older and so I'm a little more "old school"....I guess.
I'm still stuck in the mentality of... "Go big or go home"....
The new 2.8 is a big improvement over the 2.4 though....
Kenne Bell Twin Screw Supercharger - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords
I hear there is a 4.2L blower in the works as well.
The little intercooler might work ok if you run a water tank with a separate heat exchanger. Running the coolant through the blower seems like a bad idea.
I hear there is a 4.2L blower in the works as well.
The little intercooler might work ok if you run a water tank with a separate heat exchanger. Running the coolant through the blower seems like a bad idea.
EllowViper
Enthusiast
The water in the blower is to reduce the heat induced expansion from front-to-rear in the housing and rotors of the blower...not an intercooler for the discharge. This way you can control clearances and tolerances a lot more vice accounting for expansion of materials in the preset clearances. Oh yeah, the MRS found out about the purchase when my credit card company phoned home to verify I authorized the purchase....OOOOPS. The fact that I sold the 2.4 for $1000.00 really didn't change her mood too much...so beware if you head out on this path!!
