Let's be real, what would it take? Only short answers please

[hammerofgods]

Well the reason it is hypothetical is because I'm not promising anyone I could change anything... And by Let's be real I mean I wanted viable answers not whimsical lists of wants, just the 1 big thing that may have helped you turn the corner to buying;

Power
PCM
Open PCM
Mopar parts
Interior
Fitments
Colors
Wheels
Carbon anything...

That's what I was looking for, just one word tangables to compile a list of the top 3-4 things.

I know that as with anything in life each individual can want a hundred different things out of something they perceive as flawed. When SRT solicited input on the Gen5 way back, they got a huge list and had to pick and choose what they could really accomplish with time and budgets they were given all while trying to give the Viper community what they wanted. Now that all seems to have changed according to some posters, maybe because they were not here when the lists were being compiled... don't know.

I'm just trying to nail down a short "top reason" list that maybe SRT can put to use, not that they can promise anything either, but if you can't have everything what is the ONE thing you would like to have? You can post numerous times I suppose, but if they have to read through all the crap being tossed around now do you really think they will waste their time? I'm trying to help that's all and sorry I'm not educated enough to get that across to some of you I guess...

Are you collecting this info to provide input to someone capable of making changes (assuming this is possible)? If this current Viper was indeed improved, how do you think the current owners would feel and what would it do to the on hand stock at the dealers? Is the big plan to attract the current owners of past Vipers or outsiders? To combine both, it may be pretty tough or even impossible since the times have changed while the Viper pretty much stood still.

 

[ViperSmith]

It's a niche car now, and has been for 21 years. If it wasn't there would have been greater demand over the years and more cars made. All the Viper fans and previous owners who could afford one bought them and the big empty demographic is the "crossover" buyers who never bought in. I'm not sure what SRT could have done unless they can find a way for it to say "Ferrari" on the back. They built a great car and upgraded the interior immensely but the one thing unchanged is the name and it's perception in many peoples mind. The Viper name and image has always been a big rough hard to handle all motor monster and that is both it's appeal to owners and it's aversion by others. It's still seen as a blue collar car despite the formidable price. How can that perception be changed?

Perception is a function of marketing, which is where this all has fallen apart. Sponsoring races is cool and all, but where is the pay off?

But to be fair, I think the Viper is in a very weird category. I don't really see it having a perception (say of corvette "successful plumber" perception) other than being rough and hard to drive.

Perhaps that is the problem, it hasn't defined itself correctly.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Are you collecting this info to provide input to someone capable of making changes (assuming this is possible)? If this current Viper was indeed improved, how do you think the current owners would feel and what would it do to the on hand stock at the dealers? Is the big plan to attract the current owners of past Vipers or outsiders? To combine both, it may be pretty tough or even impossible since the times have changed while the Viper pretty much stood still.

Yes

Not sure

Both

I know that

 

[Vypr Phil]

DCT-Paddle Shift Option
Open PCM
Bigger wheels allowing 15" brake rotors
More forward looking design (for example Volado) rather than a Gen II inspired retro design
Vert

 

[Sho off]

I was in the market for a car to replace my Gen IV Viper.

I was comparing four cars to purchase - Porsche 911 GT2 (used), Lamborghini Gallardo (used), Jaguar F type (V8), and Gen 5 Viper.

I was able to walk into each dealership above and view the cars. I listed them in specific order above rating mydealership experience. (leftmost =best rightmost =worst). At each dealership I was able to walk inside , be greeted promptly by a salesperson, sit in the cars, start them up, and test drive them, except with the Viper. I was not greeted at all, or able to sit/drive the car. After 10 minutes of browsing I left. There was no winder sticker on the car either for information. This soured my experience as this was the only dealer in town with a car at the time I was looking.

With more research and soul searching I really wanted a convertible and could not get away from that fact after having my Gen IV roadster I enjoyed so much. So if I had a better dealership experience and would have been won over (get past the Gen 2 looks of the Gen 5) with an exhilarating ride in a convertible Gen 5 you would have my money right now. It just did not line up and I am now a happy Gallardo owner.

Still will always love the Viper.

Mark - thanks for putting this post out there, starting the discussion, stirring the ***!

We at SRT Engineering are, of course, very interested to know what Viper owners have to say on this (and we can recognize who the owners or intenders are, vs the Pretenders...). We take to heart all of the 'legitimate' feedback we see here. Please keep it coming, thank you.

But guys, come on, when I see people complaining 'that there are 2 models of Viper', or claiming that they won't buy a new Viper due to 'visible wheelhouse screws', I see bull****; those are people who didn't take the question seriously. I mean, really, you didn't buy a new Viper because we offered 2 models?! Wouldn't a reasonable buyer just pick the one they liked better and get on with it?....perhaps a more honest answer for them may have been that 'I'm not in the market now and won't be soon'. That's fine (and please just pass on answering this thread at all, if that is the case, honestly).

But if you are planning to buy a supercar soon, but aren't closing the deal on a Viper, take this opportunity to tell us 'why not'.

Please, be sincere. Did you really test-drive a Viper? Have you seen, or even sat in a new Viper? If so, what did you like, and what did you not like?

As we've well read, the Gen 5 owners on these forums REALLY like their cars. They log on here to debate "issues" here and there, but (little reminder here) they don't come to Viper forums because they hate their cars; in fact, they log on every night because they LOVE them, for reasons the intenders may too:

The Viper is a singularly passionate, and alive car, in many ways that the 'great' German cars of today are not. The car is freaking addictive to drive, so I understand the love these owners express. It is amazing to drive a 640hp rocket to work (or whereever) every day! Please forgive my brief infomercial, now I'll log off

thanks for listening, and sharing your honest feedback.

 

[hammerofgods]

Yes

Not sure

Both

I know that

Why do you think Hennessey did not use Viper chassis and/or drivetrain for his Venom? Maybe it is time to let the sleeping dogs lie, quietly finish the Generation 5 run and come up with something totally different like maybe Alfa 4C with a twin turbo V8 as the next Viper? Ultimately, it would not matter if the layout changed, as long as the car was fairly affordable and ahead of the pack, it would sell. If it was me, I would offer reduced cost TA conversions for remaining 2013 and 2014 and make the Generation 5 2015 last year as TA in coupe and convertible only available models with a modest power bump and let it leave in glory and come back with Alfa based replacement. This way, new Viper could get ahead of Corvette while remaining its own car. As long as performance and technology improves significantly, nobody will care if it is V8 or V10, with many applauding twin turbo V8.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Why do you think Hennessey did not use Viper chassis and/or drivetrain for his Venom? Maybe it is time to let the sleeping dogs lie, quietly finish the Generation 5 run and come up with something totally different like maybe Alfa 4C with a twin turbo V8 as the next Viper? Ultimately, it would not matter if the layout changed, as long as the car was fairly affordable and ahead of the pack, it would sell. If it was me, I would offer reduced cost TA conversions for remaining 2013 and 2014 and make the Generation 5 2015 last year as TA in coupe and convertible only available models with a modest power bump and let it leave in glory and come back with Alfa based replacement. This way, new Viper could get ahead of Corvette while remaining its own car. As long as performance and technology improves significantly, nobody will care if it is V8 or V10, with many applauding twin turbo V8.

I think you are trying too hard with that Hennessey comment which is highly irrelevant to this discussion. Despite what you say the car is still at the top of the heap around the track. Cant do that with a horrible chassis. It does need some help to sell but your list above is not what is needed imho. Way off with that. All it realistically needs is a few more ponies, lighter weight, a better calibrated suspension and some CCB's to really be a well rounded package imho. However I don't know if any additions would improve sales without a stout marketing effort.

 

[hammerofgods]

I think you are trying too hard with that Hennessey comment. Despite what you say the car is still at the top of the heap around the track. It does need some help to sell but your list above is not what is needed imho. Way off with that.

How am I trying too hard? It is not very difficult to understand why Hennessey picked Lotus Elise and Corvette V8 as the starting points for his own car instead of relying on his experience with Viper (he called his car Venom though, LOL). I am simply stating my observations and opinions. Viper track accomplishments no longer translate into sales, it is a fact, maybe a radical change would be better?

 

[hammerofgods]

I think you are trying too hard with that Hennessey comment which is highly irrelevant to this discussion. Despite what you say the car is still at the top of the heap around the track. Cant do that with a horrible chassis. It does need some help to sell but your list above is not what is needed imho. Way off with that. All it realistically needs is a few more ponies, lighter weight, a better calibrated suspension and some CCB's to really be a well rounded package imho. However I don't know if any additions would improve sales without a stout marketing effort.

Hennessey comment is very relevant because it is another black eye to Viper reputation, considering how much of Viper wizard Hennessey always claims to be. Totally disagreed on horrible chassis not winning races, yes, you can have awful chassis and still win races. Without radical design changes, weight reduction is not a likely possibility since the car still has to be structurally sound.

 

[VENOM V]

Hennessey comment is very relevant because it is another black eye to Viper reputation, considering how much of Viper wizard Hennessey always claims to be. Totally disagreed on horrible chassis not winning races, yes, you can have awful chassis and still win races. Without radical design changes, weight reduction is not a likely possibility since the car still has to be structurally sound.

Ok dude, you are all over the place. Please try to think before you type. Not enough credibility to be taken seriously.

 

[ViperSmith]

Can you guys stop responding to him? He has yet to make a relevant point.

 

[hammerofgods]

Ok dude, you are all over the place. Please try to think before you type. Not enough credibility to be taken seriously.

k

 

[SnakeBitten]

How am I trying too hard? It is not very difficult to understand why Hennessey picked Lotus Elise and Corvette V8 as the starting points for his own car instead of relying on his experience with Viper (he called his car Venom though, LOL). I am simply stating my observations and opinions. Viper track accomplishments no longer translate into sales, it is a fact, maybe a radical change would be better?

I was speaking of the street car Viper around the track NOT the racecar. It's funny that the Gen IV ACR that whooped everybody mercilessly the past few years was great but the G5 which is a much stiffer chassis is not good enough? You don't make sense at all. By your logic everything from Porsche, Ferrari, Vette, GTR etc are on garbage chassis because none of them could beat the snake around a track. We are talking street cars just in case I wasn't clear.

And just incase you make the argument about a bad chassis winning. That can happen in racing by fluke or playing up other strengths but it won't be very often unless the competition is weak. The Gen IV ACR consistently beat everything in and out of its class over and over with that horrible chassis you referred to. We all got our opinions but at least let it be steeped in some semblance of reality.

 

[hammerofgods]

This thread has been derailed so badly already... Start a thread or PM me? Someone suggested a separate section, cannot wait for it to happen

I was speaking of the street car Viper around the track NOT the racecar. It's funny that the Gen IV ACR that whooped everybody mercilessly the past few years was great but the G5 which is a much stiffer chassis is not good enough? You don't make sense at all. By your logic everything from Porsche, Ferrari, Vette, GTR etc are on garbage chassis because none of them could beat the snake around a track. We are talking street cars just in case I wasn't clear.

And just incase you make the argument about a bad chassis winning. That can happen in racing by fluke or playing up other strengths but it won't be very often unless the competition is weak. The Gen IV ACR consistently beat everything in and out of its class over and over with that horrible chassis you referred to. We all got our opinions but at least let it be steeped in some semblance of reality.

 

[TrackAire]

It appears this forum needs to have some sort of system that makes you take and pass a breathalyzer test before logging on. I'm convinced some of you are way over .08%

George

 

[pathoguy]

power please (had to add please to satisfy character number for posting)

 

[Camfab]

Power and brakes. Unfortunately for the Viper it was born to parents that were the heavyweight champions of their day. Anything less is a disappointment. Great looking car.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Are you collecting this info to provide input to someone capable of making changes (assuming this is possible)? If this current Viper was indeed improved, how do you think the current owners would feel and what would it do to the on hand stock at the dealers? Is the big plan to attract the current owners of past Vipers or outsiders? To combine both, it may be pretty tough or even impossible since the times have changed while the Viper pretty much stood still.

I hate to ask this question but feel that I must and the question is "Why are you even here?". You are proving the point that there should be a member's only section. Those who are legitimate Viper owners or Viper fans wouldn't have to read your drivel or BS.

Now in response to Mark's question about what the new Gen V might need, well I think it comes down to the list below:

1. DCT for those that might want it
2. Tunable
3. More published track results from people who can actually drive the car. (Sad to say but I feel that we lost quite a few potential buyers due to all of the bad reviews. Perceived bad quality due to a poorly inspected car that was sent to the Mags. Alot of those new demographics that SRT was hoping would cross shop were probably put off by the bad press).
4. Dealer network that will let people at least let qualified people sit in the car. Maybe have a car in the big metropolitan areas that people can test drive in those areas. And as someone said before in other threads, have an SRT at some of the SRT Experience events and send out invitations to the targeted car clubs. At least you may get a few more butts in the seats and that can only be a good thing.
5. And last but not least, SRT should make it a point to bring some of these cars to Viper events hosted by the different Viper clubs and chapters. Hey if you are going to get sales, at least let Viper Owners see what the car is all about.
6. And one more thing is that I think the car should have been more than a retro version of the Gen 2. The Gen 2 was/is a beautiful car and so is the Gen 5 but many previous owners as well as new potential owners may see it as an evolution of the Gen 2. The new Corvette (C7) looks like a completely different car and appeals to new people who want more than just a retro version of the previous model. To me, this is how they should have evolved the car.
7. And one more thing and I promise that it will be the last on this topic and that is that I think SRT/Chrysler/Dodge should have been the bigger people and helped to bury the hatchet involving the feuding car clubs. If they are going to acknowledge both then do so. This quiet game thing that is going on isn't doing anyone any good. As they say "SH_t or get off the ***!". Let the clubs know that they are going to be there for the people no matter what happens. We are all Viper owners and as owners, we aren't the ones who should pay the price of what transpired!

 

[ViperSmith]

Alabaster Mamba, I'd like to build on your idea.

Maybe SRT should cover track insurance for a few new buyers, hell even give them new tires, and get them to track the car. Track insurance is $800 for a weekend, drop in the bucket.

Get owners out there running the cars and get some stories. Sponsor buyers who have bought.

 

[VENOM V]

Alabaster Mamba, I'd like to build on your idea.

Maybe SRT should cover track insurance for a few new buyers, hell even give them new tires, and get them to track the car. Track insurance is $800 for a weekend, drop in the bucket.

Get owners out there running the cars and get some stories. Sponsor buyers who have bought.

Excellent idea. When you buy a ZR1, they include the Ron Fellows ZR1 School free of charge. That's a top notch school, I paid big bucks to take that class. And I took that class to learn how to drive the Viper! Why couldn't SRT do something like that?

Perhaps replace the SRT Track Experience with something more substantial, for Viper buyers. SRT could pay for 1 weekend with a HPDE organization of their liking (the guys that put on track days all over the nation, such as Hooked on Driving). And if they include track day insurance with it, that removes much of the risk to the buyer. This has obvious and big benefits: Viper owners learn how to safely control their cars. In addition, they get a chance to experience the rush of driving these fine machines the way they were meant to be driven. I honestly don't know the challenges involved in this, such as for those buyers that don't live near a track that has HPDE events. But some variation of this that would be an enhanced SRT Experience. Or for that matter, maybe just beef up the SRT Experience for Viper owners.

 

[Martin]

ACR that out-ACR's the Gen IV ACR.

 

[1st Strike]

I think it takes a different item for different owners. Here are the top three.

1. More power (750-800)
2. Lighter 300 lbs
3. DSG trans

 

[ACRsnake]

ACR that out-ACR's the Gen IV ACR.

out-ACR's the ACR ....nice phrase lol

 

[Manatee]

ACR with paddle shifters (Ferrari, not Porsche)

Make Blue / White stripe combo always available, not just at Launch.

 

[KB Viper]

I agree with ACRucrazy. i would buy another gen V if i could get a GTS with the SRT hood and SRT stripes and aftermarket tunning was available so i could put do a big cam (nonVVT), heads, and header package. all my memories of the older model vipers where fire breathing dragons that all sounded like they belonged at the drag strip. if i could truely build my own, i'd be in another one.

Thank you for spending time on the forums.



I'll take take this one, since I did mention it in this thread. I've also mentioned it in other threads. Other forum members have mentioned it. Heck it's been mentioned several times over the last year, and I stand by my opinion, I do not like it. At all. Especially when only certain options are available on certain models. The Viper is a halo car correct? Having a "base" model IMO doesn't help. It can create confusion between buyers.

I firmly believe a GTS package/option may have been a better way to go about it. If it was such a great idea why are we now offering the SRT hood on the GTS model (yet at a $premium$) and for 2014 SRT to GTS ratio has now increased? In 2013 if someone wanted blue they had to get the GTS, if someone wanted the 6 vent SRT hood they had to get the SRT. What if I wanted a blue 2013 Viper with a 6 vent hood without the fancy stereo or leather?

We are talking $100,000+ hand built cars here. A "reasonable buyer" should be able to get what they they wan't without model restrictions. Your 2 model approach prevents that. Maybe some day a "reasonable car brand" will figure that out.

• I don't like the fact that I visited the dealer, they all saw me pull up in my Viper, yet I had to beg to sit in the Gen V they had that had hand written "DO NOT TOUCH" pieces of paper all over the car
• I don't like that performance wise so far, the Gen V does not seem like a huge improvement over the Gen IV. (This is not me saying I don't think the Gen V is an improvement over the Gen IV, because I do)
• I don't like dealer market adjustments (this is not an issue now like it was at the beginning of the year as the Gen V is sitting around on dealer lots)
• I don't like the pricing of options. I think they are rediculious. $5,000 for stripes for example.
• I don't like that full stripes can only be had on the GTS. What if I want them on my "base" model?
• I don't like that MOPAR is behind on any aftermarket goodies for the car that were announced a year ago now..
• Test drive?! Ha! See note 1. But SRT already knows this..
• I do like the interior, it's very nice, I miss the analog gauges however and the brief moment I spent in the car the seats felt a bit hard
• I like the looks. It's a **** car. I am waiting for something meaner.
• I like some of the colors, would like to see more, I dislike restricting certain colors to certain models (there is that pesky 2 model issue again.. Glad it's fixed for 2014)
• If I was a buyer today I would want the better brakes on the SRT model. I can't get that. For what reason?? (pesky 2 models)
• Cooled seats
• ACR
• ACR?
• ACR??

I would have to say that Gen I, Gen II, Gen III & Gen IV owners REALLY like their cars too. Heck this weekend I was flipping through my mileage log and realized I put more miles on my ACR in the last 6 months than I did my "daily driver".

Sincerely,

-Someone who could be in the market and has exchanged emails with a dealership across the country Friday/Today about a Gen V. Still trying to decide if I would give up a Gen IV ACR for a Gen V.. Comments from SRT could help me with my decision.



EDIT: While I think of it, as a potential buyer the whole "BUILD YOUR OWN" should not be missing from the Viper page on drivesrt.com

 

[bushido]

ACR that out-ACR's the Gen IV ACR.

Ha good one Martin..

 

[Bruce H.]

The Viper is an extreme machine that seems to be mostly purchased by hobbists, whether their passion is drag racing, track days, monster power building, club/cruise or weekend thrill rides. It's too hard-core and too impractical for most that might like one otherwise, and in this price range it's hard to find enough die-hard hobbists to purchase them in sufficient quantity. Upgrading the interior to appeal to cross shoppers of other high-end cars is probably an even harder sell since the Viper is still going to be viewed as too hard-core and impractical for them more than any other group of buyers. I can't readily think of any car that appeals to such a diverse group... and least likely to be able to afford to please each group.

1. But the one thing they could do quickly is Communicate Better with their owners.

I'd expect early problems and issues, adjusting the equipment and optional product offerings, and refining of all aspects of the car. As a prospective buyer prepared to invest in their viability I just want to know that they are aware of what needs to be fixed, are listening to their owners, and are systematically working through the issues. There's a lot of frustration over issues with perhaps simple fixes when attempting to dyno and drag racing the car (with SRT just now getting involved in). Refinement affecting handling will likely need to be on-going, and launch control needs improving. Explain your plans for all those that want to modify the engine to make more power. It's the not knowing if they are listening, or if they care or plan to address these things that makes the situation unbearable for many.

My interest is track day performance so I'm personally most interested in:

2. Suspension calibration, traction control and stability control refinement

3. Availability of your best steel brakes on my choice of Viper model, with CCB's being available as an option later

4. Availability of a DCT with paddle shifters

But for now I'd just like to know that you're listening...so hopefully you can address #1.

 

[ulllose]

More power! Bragging power. Is 640 great for me? Sure, but 700 really just puts it over everything else when it comes to American muscle.
And that's what the car always was till 2006 when Chevy introduced the 505 hp zo6. Vipers answer....600hp almost 100 more ponies than anything else available in American muscle. Had they kept that going we would be looking at 700 plus horsepower, bragging rights, and a better performing car in a 1/4 test which what every magazine tests.

 

[FastMatt]

700+hp that it should have had in the first place, and a unlocked PCM so we could put 7psi of boost to it and have a 1000+hp car that drives like stock

 

[FastMatt]

The boost problem is not a contrived problem and SRT does not view it that way. Please watch the Dick Winkles video wherein he states that the engine was designed for boost because they knew, and know, that many Viper owners like to add forced induction applications. A significant number of Viper purchasers, including me, ordered their current car and had it modded immediately before it was delivered to them. In my case, this was done by Woodhouse with a custom calibration provided by Dan Cragin. Before that I had a Gen II with a Roe supercharger.
.

then gave it a ECU nobody can crack.

Here we are 5 yrs later and you still cant tune 08 vipers.

People were tuning the C7 corvette within days of the first ones hitting dealer lots.

I will never buy another new viper till they can be tuned.