Let's be real, what would it take? Only short answers please
- Thread starter mjorgensen Woodhouse
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KB Viper
Viper Owner
I second your motion. How's your monster Z running?
former345bhpLS1
Enthusiast
The lack of an automated gearbox probably is an issue in this market (though also an act of heresy), though it will really expand the number of possible customers.
I also agree that unlocking the PCM is essential, so much of the Gen I-III's appeal was the ability to make huge power with forced induction, etc.
But making more power with the existing engine will require either forced induction or a completely new engine. We seem to be reaching the max specific output for an OHV engine with the Gen V's engine. It is currently making 76 bhp/L, which is still more than the new LT1 (with direct injection) or the outgoing Z06 engine. You can't increase displacement with the current block as the sleeves are already quite thin (per the SRT Viper book) and there is no other tech that will add a lot of power to this engine (DI might help a bit as you could raise the compression to 12.0:1+, but Dick Winkles claims that the head design is not amenable and there would be little benefit -C/D article).
Also, a DOHC design won't fit in the car and will add ~100-150 lbs of engine weight. The Viper V10 is already lighter than the 5.0L Coyote V8 in the Mustang, not too mention the GT500 engine (which is REALLY HUGE and REALLY HEAVY - hence that cars terrible weight distribution). DOHC designs really changes the dimensions of the engine. It's ironic that everyone talks about specific output since it says little about the actual size and weight of the engine, which I think is more relevant. The GTR's 3.8L V6 is over 600 lbs and just the heads are roughly the size of an undressed small block V8 (the current Gen V V10 is ~500-520 lbs).
Any vote for more power is really a vote for factory supercharging or turbocharging, which is probably inevitable. I think thats fine, but I'd still prefer the normally aspirated engine (I never thought that I'd fine people who though that 5.1lbs/bhp was underpowered, actually what car has a better power/weight? - not the ferrari F12, not the aventador, not the Mclaren 12C, no porsche except the 918...).
In short, more power means a very different engine or factory supercharging. If they unlock the PCM, most people could fix that themselves.
-Nick
TexasTonka
Enthusiast
Unlock the PCM to let aftermarket offer parts.
GT3R parts are available- offer the GT3R body parts as a ACR option with KWv3 or better suspension, giant carbon brakes with bigger calipers and pads, bring back MICHELIN Sport Cup 2 tires. And BOOM you have a Viper I would trade all 3 of mine in for.
GT3R parts are available- offer the GT3R body parts as a ACR option with KWv3 or better suspension, giant carbon brakes with bigger calipers and pads, bring back MICHELIN Sport Cup 2 tires. And BOOM you have a Viper I would trade all 3 of mine in for.
doctorbob
Enthusiast
I have no answer. I just finished looking at Autotrader and there are 500+ 2013/14 GVs for sale. This is what SRT gets for building the first 300 cars with no true orders in hand. It is also what SRT gets for allowing every "wanna viper" dealership to drop 25K to get a certified viper tech and order one or two 140K+ GTSs. Toss in the marketing(Unbelievable *****), VCA issues, test cars to the media(***** #2), no ACR, no convertible (you would think by now SRT would be looking at these options to save the car), lack of SRT response, price point(sorry for saying that), performance questions(true or not), and the current apathy of viper owners over a multitude of things.
Result? No sales. Threads like this by a major viper dealer. Demise of the car....this time for good.
This is from a guy who has had eight vipers over the years from a 1994 RT/10 to my current ACR. I went to SLC and New York for the unveiling. I am going to sit back keep my ACR and get a GV down the road as all this stuff get sorted out.
I apologize for the length of my post.
Result? No sales. Threads like this by a major viper dealer. Demise of the car....this time for good.
This is from a guy who has had eight vipers over the years from a 1994 RT/10 to my current ACR. I went to SLC and New York for the unveiling. I am going to sit back keep my ACR and get a GV down the road as all this stuff get sorted out.
I apologize for the length of my post.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
I have no answer. I just finished looking at Autotrader and there are 500+ 2013/14 GVs for sale. This is what SRT gets for building the first 300 cars with no true orders in hand. It is also what SRT gets for allowing every "wanna viper" dealership to drop 25K to get a certified viper tech and order one or two 140K+ GTSs. Toss in the marketing(Unbelievable *****), VCA issues, test cars to the media(***** #2), no ACR, no convertible (you would think by now SRT would be looking at these options to save the car), lack of SRT response, price point(sorry for saying that), performance questions(true or not), and the current apathy of viper owners over a multitude of things.
Result? No sales. Threads like this by a major viper dealer. Demise of the car....this time for good.
This is from a guy who has had eight vipers over the years from a 1994 RT/10 to my current ACR. I went to SLC and New York for the unveiling. I am going to sit back keep my ACR and get a GV down the road as all this stuff get sorted out.
I apologize for the length of my post.
I think I see the issue SRT is having (besides marketing) is that the car wasn't enough of a bump in performance to get those with Gen IV cars to trade up. I don't think pricing is out of control, just that the car wasn't compelling enough for most Gen IV owners to run out and get it. Perhaps that is where SRT failed to capture the market.
For me, new into the car, it is fantastic. I can see where guys with Gen IV's would be like "what is the point"
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
I agree with that statement. I felt exactly the same in 2008, when they unveiled the Gen 4. Many of us already had modded Gen 3 coupes that were faster than a stock Gen 4, and had no reason to upgrade. Especially when the chassis, body, and interior were identical. Couple that with the fact that the Gen 4 couldn't be tuned. Several of us just kept the Gen 3.
Sound familiar?
Each generation should be a substantial difference from the last. I don't even agree with them calling the Gen 4 a new generation. It was more like a mid-model refresh. GM changed the engine in the Corvette from the LS2 to the LS3, and went from 4-spd automatics to 6-spd automatics, in the C6 era, and they didn't call it a new generation.
Gen V was different enough for me to want one. I always liked the Gen 2 styling, and really like the new interior.
I often ask myself if I would trade my ACR straight up for a V if I was given the opportunity. I find myself having a hard time answering that.
mnc2886
Enthusiast
To be honest I personally feel I'd have trouble not buying a Gen IV instead of a V and I don't own either. I will buy a Viper next year, but I have to admit, the value of the Gen IV ACR is hard to pass up.
Good brother. It just made January's Vette Magazine. Was gonna sell it for a new Viper but.....
Hit me offline or PM if you would like. Hope all is well Kristopher.
Carleton
Viper Owner
700+HP and a targa top edition I owned two Vipers , a Gen2 and Gen 3.
I Bin Therbefor
Enthusiast
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Oerlikon Graziano has an interesting product for the auto trans application. Moving it to the rear would give the opportunity to open up the foot well for the driver and reposition the driver slightly. That would answer two of my items. As I recall, Chrysler has licensing agreements with ZF and buys some trans from them. That's another opportunity.
johniew398
Enthusiast
GT3R looking ACR and I would have already purchased one.
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