toddt
Enthusiast
I thought the viper designer (Lutz) went to GM.
Lets Get Real , DC do something now,, No More IGNORANCE
- Thread starter King GTS
- Start date
toddt
Enthusiast
Anyhow, it appears not much design went into the shape of the new GT-40. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
OK 1bad, let's calm down and get the facts straight:
First, Nobody is denying that the Mustang that you saw can do a 12 second time (with Evan and some pulleys). But Evan has consistantly run Vipers into the 11.7 arena!
Second, Some Ferrari's, Porsche's and other ROAD COURSE oriented production exotics won't even turn a 12 second time on the 1/4 mile! OUR VIPERS ARE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BE ROAD COURSE MONSTERS, NOT DRAG CARS! (Joe, you know this! Look at Nase, he's been there!)
Third, You're bouncing back and fourth between comparing a "35000.00" fun Mustang with a bit under 400 horsepower from the factory to a MAYBE, WHEN IT'S PRODUCED, $90-100,000 mid engine, exotic!
So let's get it straight, yes Joe, the Mustang is really neat, it goes fast on the quarter mile for $35000 (but then again, there are '93-'95 RT/10's out there for the same price, that'll do the same time on the track... AND have much leaner depreciation, AND of course, turn heads at every stop light! Put it on a roadcourse, and well, it'll probably compete..... with a WRX, or maybe even an M3 or boxter (maybe), but it would have to defy the laws of gravity to keep up with ANY Vipers when we travel the track at POCONO!
Joe, you are an avid drag racer, you eat, breathe, and sleep thinking about how you can make your car faster for the 1/4 mile. That's great! and your car is super fast on the 1/4 mile but let's really think about it.... if you want to go straight ... really, really fast ... pick up your time slip and do it again .... you surely don't need a Viper. But the amazing thing with our Vipers, is that although they weren't built to be weekend warriors on the dragstrip, for many years they dominated, no ... destroyed ALL production car competition at the track! And although some of the "others" are getting close (with a "few simple modifications", and a great driver), an 11.7 is STILL FASTER than a 12.0! ... and let's compare apples to apples ... isn't the cobra you're talking about an '03? ... gee, that means we should be comparing it to the SRT-10? ... and let's see.... doesn't that come FROM THE FACTORY with over 500 HP? Do you think, maybe, Evan will find it difficult to run an 11.5 with that beauty? (oh, without pulleys, K&N's or add-ons)?
So let's keep this board a site for Viper Fans (as I know you are, Joe). PVO did not design the SRT (nor will Ford design the GT40) to be a drag car. Competition is great, and Ford will have to do their homework to produce a car that will be able to compete against our SRT's (and our current generation Snakes as well)... and it'll be even harder to have it engineered with a decade of experience we've had at grass roots level racing, SCCA and of course, LeMans!!!!!!
Good Luck Ford .... 'cause you'll need it!
First, Nobody is denying that the Mustang that you saw can do a 12 second time (with Evan and some pulleys). But Evan has consistantly run Vipers into the 11.7 arena!
Second, Some Ferrari's, Porsche's and other ROAD COURSE oriented production exotics won't even turn a 12 second time on the 1/4 mile! OUR VIPERS ARE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BE ROAD COURSE MONSTERS, NOT DRAG CARS! (Joe, you know this! Look at Nase, he's been there!)
Third, You're bouncing back and fourth between comparing a "35000.00" fun Mustang with a bit under 400 horsepower from the factory to a MAYBE, WHEN IT'S PRODUCED, $90-100,000 mid engine, exotic!
So let's get it straight, yes Joe, the Mustang is really neat, it goes fast on the quarter mile for $35000 (but then again, there are '93-'95 RT/10's out there for the same price, that'll do the same time on the track... AND have much leaner depreciation, AND of course, turn heads at every stop light! Put it on a roadcourse, and well, it'll probably compete..... with a WRX, or maybe even an M3 or boxter (maybe), but it would have to defy the laws of gravity to keep up with ANY Vipers when we travel the track at POCONO!
Joe, you are an avid drag racer, you eat, breathe, and sleep thinking about how you can make your car faster for the 1/4 mile. That's great! and your car is super fast on the 1/4 mile but let's really think about it.... if you want to go straight ... really, really fast ... pick up your time slip and do it again .... you surely don't need a Viper. But the amazing thing with our Vipers, is that although they weren't built to be weekend warriors on the dragstrip, for many years they dominated, no ... destroyed ALL production car competition at the track! And although some of the "others" are getting close (with a "few simple modifications", and a great driver), an 11.7 is STILL FASTER than a 12.0! ... and let's compare apples to apples ... isn't the cobra you're talking about an '03? ... gee, that means we should be comparing it to the SRT-10? ... and let's see.... doesn't that come FROM THE FACTORY with over 500 HP? Do you think, maybe, Evan will find it difficult to run an 11.5 with that beauty? (oh, without pulleys, K&N's or add-ons)?
So let's keep this board a site for Viper Fans (as I know you are, Joe). PVO did not design the SRT (nor will Ford design the GT40) to be a drag car. Competition is great, and Ford will have to do their homework to produce a car that will be able to compete against our SRT's (and our current generation Snakes as well)... and it'll be even harder to have it engineered with a decade of experience we've had at grass roots level racing, SCCA and of course, LeMans!!!!!!
Good Luck Ford .... 'cause you'll need it!
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMcGuire:
Would you have complained if DC had contracted Pininfarina to design the new Viper? (Didn't Ferrari work with Chrysler at one point?)
I agree with the rest, though: the point isn't that the MAN is Japanese, it's that the man's BACKGROUND is Japanese CARS, which mostly range from dull to completely goofy. At least, that's how I think most of us view the problem.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're absolutely correct.
Would you have complained if DC had contracted Pininfarina to design the new Viper? (Didn't Ferrari work with Chrysler at one point?)
I agree with the rest, though: the point isn't that the MAN is Japanese, it's that the man's BACKGROUND is Japanese CARS, which mostly range from dull to completely goofy. At least, that's how I think most of us view the problem.
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You're absolutely correct.
what we need to do is to have DC produce a FACTORY supercharger or TT system for ALL Generations, and offer it to us at a ROCK BOTTOM PRICE and let us keep the factory warrantee, or attach a small surchase to our existing warrantee's. Also have it as a factory option on any new cars they produce. that would mean ALL vipers would be bewteen 500-600 horses MINIMUM. there is plenty of ways you drop unnecisary weight off a Viper, or change some components out. Lets face it, there is NO WAY the GT-40 will weigh it's target weight with HALF the things that a Viper comes with. I myself would rather have a car with more HP and still having all the immenities, than less HP, but stripped down.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
1badgts,
I guess were going to have to 'agree, to disagree', at this point. You are either not reading my post thoroughly, or you are misinterpreting my writings. I REALIZE THE 5.4L SC MOTOR CAN BE TURNED INTO A 1/4 MILE MONSTER, WITH LITTLE PROBLEMS/MONEY. I AGREE WITH YOU. Although, a 1/4 mile (10 seconds) of high boost does not mean this same motor with be able to handle the stresses of extended high-RPM road racing. Sorry. Show me a 5.4L SC motor with 600 RWHP (stock internals) that can be driven hard for hours on a road racing circuit with no heat problems, detonation problems, and using 91-93 octane fuel... I DON'T THINK IT IS POSSIBLE WITH STOCK INTERNALS. I'm just using my logic to try and figure this out... The stock 5.4L SC motor in the Lightning produces say 350 RWHP (Not sure, but I think this would even be on the high side). Where does this other 250 RWHP come from? I'm assuming the majority must be from increased boost. Will say +200 RWHP from boost. THAT'S A HUGE INCREASE IN BOOST, TO GET AN ADDITIONAL 200 RWHP. Fine for 10 seconds of insanity, but rarely fine for extended high RPM road racing. Again, I don't know a whole lot about the 5.4L SC platform, but can't imagine 600 RWHP is doable, with stock internals, for extended high RPM road racing. WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT 1/4 MILE HERE... I don't know this Evan person, but is his experience with 1/4 mile racing, or road racing. THERE IS A HUGH DIFFERENCE... This is why I prefer the 8.3L over the 5.4L SC. It has nothing to do with it being more exotic, etc... I am into road racing, and need a reliable platform. If Evan/You/whoever can prove that 600 RWHP can be achieve (easily) from the 5.4L SC motor, while keeping the stock internals, while using 91-91 octane fuel, for extended high RPM road racing, with no heat/detonation/over boost/gasket/blower problems, I WOULD BE VERY IMPRESSED AND SURPRISED. Just being skeptical, not doubting your/Evans knowledge. Please educate me if I'm wrong....
Later
P.S. - What is needed to get the 600 RWHP? How fast are you spinning that blower - PSI of boost?
I guess were going to have to 'agree, to disagree', at this point. You are either not reading my post thoroughly, or you are misinterpreting my writings. I REALIZE THE 5.4L SC MOTOR CAN BE TURNED INTO A 1/4 MILE MONSTER, WITH LITTLE PROBLEMS/MONEY. I AGREE WITH YOU. Although, a 1/4 mile (10 seconds) of high boost does not mean this same motor with be able to handle the stresses of extended high-RPM road racing. Sorry. Show me a 5.4L SC motor with 600 RWHP (stock internals) that can be driven hard for hours on a road racing circuit with no heat problems, detonation problems, and using 91-93 octane fuel... I DON'T THINK IT IS POSSIBLE WITH STOCK INTERNALS. I'm just using my logic to try and figure this out... The stock 5.4L SC motor in the Lightning produces say 350 RWHP (Not sure, but I think this would even be on the high side). Where does this other 250 RWHP come from? I'm assuming the majority must be from increased boost. Will say +200 RWHP from boost. THAT'S A HUGE INCREASE IN BOOST, TO GET AN ADDITIONAL 200 RWHP. Fine for 10 seconds of insanity, but rarely fine for extended high RPM road racing. Again, I don't know a whole lot about the 5.4L SC platform, but can't imagine 600 RWHP is doable, with stock internals, for extended high RPM road racing. WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT 1/4 MILE HERE... I don't know this Evan person, but is his experience with 1/4 mile racing, or road racing. THERE IS A HUGH DIFFERENCE... This is why I prefer the 8.3L over the 5.4L SC. It has nothing to do with it being more exotic, etc... I am into road racing, and need a reliable platform. If Evan/You/whoever can prove that 600 RWHP can be achieve (easily) from the 5.4L SC motor, while keeping the stock internals, while using 91-91 octane fuel, for extended high RPM road racing, with no heat/detonation/over boost/gasket/blower problems, I WOULD BE VERY IMPRESSED AND SURPRISED. Just being skeptical, not doubting your/Evans knowledge. Please educate me if I'm wrong....
Later
P.S. - What is needed to get the 600 RWHP? How fast are you spinning that blower - PSI of boost?
onerareviper
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Would you have complained if DC had contracted Pininfarina to design the new Viper? (Didn't Ferrari work with Chrysler at one point?)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
JMcQuire,
Now, now. Don't make assumptions. Yes, I would have still complained. As much as I don't want the new SRT-10 to look like a S2000, I don't want it to look like a Ferrari either. Although, due to Pininfarina past track record, it may have been an easier pill to swallow.
Later
Would you have complained if DC had contracted Pininfarina to design the new Viper? (Didn't Ferrari work with Chrysler at one point?)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
JMcQuire,
Now, now. Don't make assumptions. Yes, I would have still complained. As much as I don't want the new SRT-10 to look like a S2000, I don't want it to look like a Ferrari either. Although, due to Pininfarina past track record, it may have been an easier pill to swallow.
Later
V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
waaay to much paranoia and worry here. if your vehicle not being the fastest in a magazine or in the 1/4 mile is your biggest worry (and youre not getting paid to run 1/4 mile racing) you have way too much time on your hands and need to aquire more than one hobby. I would hate to think how much stress a REAL disaster could induce, such as WAR. I seriously hope you have more going for you than "owning the fastest car" lighten up and enjoy the fine machine you have with the complacent realization that everything and anything can be bested and with time will be bested. records are meant to be broken otherwise they would never be established. i think its simply awesome to own a vehicle that has established some and set the benchmark for future performance vehicles. competition is life and should be enjoyed and there is nothing better tha a fire under the competitions *ss to make things fun. i am sure D/C will respond in like to this "ford threat" so sleep soundly and quit playin chicken little. i dont mean to offend here but d*mn what a posting this has been, a real downer.
MES
Enthusiast
I think it's funny how all the SRT supporters say how great the car will be, how much power, how much better on a road course, blah, blah, blah... and so what if the SRT don't look bad asp like the older cars, it will make up for it in performance. But guess what? Not only will the SRT look so-so but it will also get its asp handed to it in ever way by the GT-40 so now what's the argument for getting the SRT over the GT-40? Oh yea that right "I'll believe it (GT-40) when I see it" well you know what? I have not seen a SRT either, nether has many auto mags, yet the supporters have no hesitation about stating how well it's going to perform. Can't have your cake and eat it to!
Gen II power to weight 3450/450 = 7.6
SRT10 power to weight 3350/500 = 6.7
GT-40 power to weight 2800/500 = 5.6
for the SRT to keep up with (not be faster than, but just keep up with) the GT-40 would require it to have 600HP 3350/600=5.6
There is a new "King of the Hill" and it's not a Dodge
Gen II power to weight 3450/450 = 7.6
SRT10 power to weight 3350/500 = 6.7
GT-40 power to weight 2800/500 = 5.6
for the SRT to keep up with (not be faster than, but just keep up with) the GT-40 would require it to have 600HP 3350/600=5.6
There is a new "King of the Hill" and it's not a Dodge
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
You seem to like the new Viper engine(Which probably costs approx 14000.00)Since it is a limited production piece parts and modifications are ASTROMICAL.ANY certified DC teck will not BE ALLOWED to go near the thing (INTERNAL Problem )and if they were allowed they probably could not fix the problem anyway.
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1BAD,
Have you heard about the SRT-10 RAM. 5000 per year. Viper V-10. I don't think all of those engines are going back to DC. Maybe if you weren't always reading Ford magazines.........
You seem to like the new Viper engine(Which probably costs approx 14000.00)Since it is a limited production piece parts and modifications are ASTROMICAL.ANY certified DC teck will not BE ALLOWED to go near the thing (INTERNAL Problem )and if they were allowed they probably could not fix the problem anyway.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1BAD,
Have you heard about the SRT-10 RAM. 5000 per year. Viper V-10. I don't think all of those engines are going back to DC. Maybe if you weren't always reading Ford magazines.........
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Viperholics,
I guess we can all argue till were blue in the face. BUT IT IS SENSELESS UNTIL WE SEE REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE NUMBERS. I think that is the SRT-10 folks reasoning, which I agree with. Everybody needs to relax. I'm excited to see what both cars are capable of. AND I WILL TELL YOU THIS. If the GT-40 does outperform the SRT-10, as some say it may, how hard will it be for DC to bump up the HP with 500+ cubes to play with? A little head work, a little cam work, a little fuel/timing added ---> Presto!!! 600+ HP. A little weight reduction here, a little there, viola!!! 200 pounds removed! Bottom line: YOU CAN'T F*CK WITH 500+ CUBES!!! Don't get me wrong, I love the GT-40. But I think DC is in the drivers seat with 8.3L. PVO will not let us down, at least in the performance arena.
P.S. - YOU CAN'T F*CK WITH 500+ CUBES!!!!! GO PVO!!!
P.S.S. - Are these 2800 pound numbers estimates, or fact? Not saying it can't be done, but preliminary weight numbers are usually low.
I guess we can all argue till were blue in the face. BUT IT IS SENSELESS UNTIL WE SEE REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE NUMBERS. I think that is the SRT-10 folks reasoning, which I agree with. Everybody needs to relax. I'm excited to see what both cars are capable of. AND I WILL TELL YOU THIS. If the GT-40 does outperform the SRT-10, as some say it may, how hard will it be for DC to bump up the HP with 500+ cubes to play with? A little head work, a little cam work, a little fuel/timing added ---> Presto!!! 600+ HP. A little weight reduction here, a little there, viola!!! 200 pounds removed! Bottom line: YOU CAN'T F*CK WITH 500+ CUBES!!! Don't get me wrong, I love the GT-40. But I think DC is in the drivers seat with 8.3L. PVO will not let us down, at least in the performance arena.
P.S. - YOU CAN'T F*CK WITH 500+ CUBES!!!!! GO PVO!!!
P.S.S. - Are these 2800 pound numbers estimates, or fact? Not saying it can't be done, but preliminary weight numbers are usually low.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
You can't argue either of the cars shown below look anything like a Ferrari.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
JMcQuire,
Wup-dee-do... You show me some pictures of some crazy prototypes. You gotta do better than that. These cars will most likely never be production vehicles. Most Ferrari's have similar styling cues, most Honda's have similar styling cues, etc... And designer's do have a certain styling signatures in there work. Especially Pininfarina. Nothing wrong with that, I just wish the SRT-10 had more of an American flare/signature, instead of looking like an oversized S2000. And your only kidding yourself if you think it doesn't resemble on oversized S2000.
P.S. - I realize Pininfarina had his hands in many designs. If memory serves, the Pantera was one. Wait a minute, didn't the Pantera look like an Italian exotic? Hmmm...
* A friendly debate....
You can't argue either of the cars shown below look anything like a Ferrari.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
JMcQuire,
Wup-dee-do... You show me some pictures of some crazy prototypes. You gotta do better than that. These cars will most likely never be production vehicles. Most Ferrari's have similar styling cues, most Honda's have similar styling cues, etc... And designer's do have a certain styling signatures in there work. Especially Pininfarina. Nothing wrong with that, I just wish the SRT-10 had more of an American flare/signature, instead of looking like an oversized S2000. And your only kidding yourself if you think it doesn't resemble on oversized S2000.
P.S. - I realize Pininfarina had his hands in many designs. If memory serves, the Pantera was one. Wait a minute, didn't the Pantera look like an Italian exotic? Hmmm...
* A friendly debate....
BigsViper
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
....I HAVE BEEN TOLD is impossible for a street car with aircondition ,sound insulation ect to weigh 2800 lbs.
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....I HAVE BEEN TOLD is impossible for a street car with aircondition ,sound insulation ect to weigh 2800 lbs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
MES
Enthusiast
I agree with you about the 500 cubes I wish the GT-40 had a big cube engine, but it don't. Even with 500 cubes I don't think DC can squeeze out 600HP because of emission laws, unless they go the supercharged route, in that case 650HP should be easy.
Also keep in mind the Z06 weighs 3,000 lb flat and it's a full production car. I don't see why the GT-40 can't be in the 2,800 lb area (just 200 lb less)
The SRT & GT-40 are both supercars so if I was to purchase a SRT (I'm not) I would not care if they had equal performance, I would sort of expect that given the cost of each. However the GT-40 is significantly more powerful than the SRT (given the weight advantage) so I would not be to happy coming in 2nd to the GT-40 given the price points of the two cars.
Also keep in mind the Z06 weighs 3,000 lb flat and it's a full production car. I don't see why the GT-40 can't be in the 2,800 lb area (just 200 lb less)
The SRT & GT-40 are both supercars so if I was to purchase a SRT (I'm not) I would not care if they had equal performance, I would sort of expect that given the cost of each. However the GT-40 is significantly more powerful than the SRT (given the weight advantage) so I would not be to happy coming in 2nd to the GT-40 given the price points of the two cars.
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Jon, Ferrari came in at one point and "discussed" mid-engine design and options with then Team Viper. They were not in to discuss any styling issues.
mit
Enthusiast
I would like to address the thought that Ford cannot get the GT-40 to weigh in at 2800 lbs. The 1993 to 1995 Mazda RX-7 was in the 2700 to 2800 lb range. The only use of aluminum was in the hood. The motor used is extremely light but they did not use space age materials to get the weight down. The drive shaft was steel and the body was steel. If Ford wants to use composite body panels and some other exotic weight saving measures, don't dismiss the idea the car will weigh in between 2800 and 3000 pounds with Air Conditioning.
Let me also say that if the GT-40 comes out, DC will have to do something to up the ante and I am sure they will. DC probably designed the SRT-10 before having any knowledge of the GT-40. When that vehicle comes out, the Viper will probably be second for a time. Let's see how DC reacts at that time. My point is that if Chevy has a 600 horsepower mid engine car under top secret development, we can't get all over DC when it comes out and beats the Viper. We *CAN* get all over DC if they sit idly bye and do nothiing about it. With the horsepower wars, the latest entry usually gets bragging rights at least for a little while.
Mit
Let me also say that if the GT-40 comes out, DC will have to do something to up the ante and I am sure they will. DC probably designed the SRT-10 before having any knowledge of the GT-40. When that vehicle comes out, the Viper will probably be second for a time. Let's see how DC reacts at that time. My point is that if Chevy has a 600 horsepower mid engine car under top secret development, we can't get all over DC when it comes out and beats the Viper. We *CAN* get all over DC if they sit idly bye and do nothiing about it. With the horsepower wars, the latest entry usually gets bragging rights at least for a little while.
Mit
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
It's funny how some folks have already decided the battle is over, that Ford has won, and that the GT-40 is the new king of the hill.
The SRT is real... there are a bunch of them sitting at CAAP right now.... they are production versions, and they are in the final stages of getting red tape out of the way to start full production.
On the other hand, the GT-40 (apparently) does not even have a driveline decided upon yet. Given this, HOW IN THE WORLD can they make any ASSUMPTIONS about the weight? If you guys see the compromises that are made for a light weight car, you will know how hard it will be to make a 500hp 2800lb GT-40. That doesn't mean they WONT do it, but so far they haven't.
So we can argue until the cows come home - it won't matter. The only things we DO know is that DC knows all about the GT-40 and they know what they need to do.
I get a kick out of how some folks have rationalized the crappiness of the SRT in their mind... now it's slow too because the GT-40 IS faster (this GT-40 that exists on paper alone). Well, if the GT-40 is faster, maybe I'll get one of those instead. Until then, I'll be happy with my SRT.
The SRT is real... there are a bunch of them sitting at CAAP right now.... they are production versions, and they are in the final stages of getting red tape out of the way to start full production.
On the other hand, the GT-40 (apparently) does not even have a driveline decided upon yet. Given this, HOW IN THE WORLD can they make any ASSUMPTIONS about the weight? If you guys see the compromises that are made for a light weight car, you will know how hard it will be to make a 500hp 2800lb GT-40. That doesn't mean they WONT do it, but so far they haven't.
So we can argue until the cows come home - it won't matter. The only things we DO know is that DC knows all about the GT-40 and they know what they need to do.
I get a kick out of how some folks have rationalized the crappiness of the SRT in their mind... now it's slow too because the GT-40 IS faster (this GT-40 that exists on paper alone). Well, if the GT-40 is faster, maybe I'll get one of those instead. Until then, I'll be happy with my SRT.
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
I was just going through some Ferrari books and found that the F40 weighs just 2500 lbs. It had 478 hp. Now if DC could make the SRT out of carbon fiber and keep the price to under half a mil...
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Colletti may have some knowledge of what Ford has, and Dodge for that matter, but when PVO (John Fernandez) called him out on it at the SAE dinner Colletti had nothing to say.
EVERYONE, The PVO and SVT guys are having fun at this new challenge. They are all looking forward to it. Why don't we take their lead and do the same?
EVERYONE, The PVO and SVT guys are having fun at this new challenge. They are all looking forward to it. Why don't we take their lead and do the same?
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Steve,
I'm having a blast!!! I respect 1badgts's opinion on the GT40, and his obvious admiration of the platform they 'may' choose. I love the car as well. Where I think we differ is our opinion on what the PVO team is capable of. As far as performance, I think PVO is the best team on the planet. These people are SPEED FREAKS!!! After seeing there dedication and commitment at Mid-Ohio on the Comp. Coupe, I don't have a doubt in my mind the Viper will remain King. At least in the $100,000 ballpark. That is my opinion, AND FACT at this time, until PROVEN otherwise. Bring it on Ford!!! Your gonna eat your words, Coletti....
Later
I'm having a blast!!! I respect 1badgts's opinion on the GT40, and his obvious admiration of the platform they 'may' choose. I love the car as well. Where I think we differ is our opinion on what the PVO team is capable of. As far as performance, I think PVO is the best team on the planet. These people are SPEED FREAKS!!! After seeing there dedication and commitment at Mid-Ohio on the Comp. Coupe, I don't have a doubt in my mind the Viper will remain King. At least in the $100,000 ballpark. That is my opinion, AND FACT at this time, until PROVEN otherwise. Bring it on Ford!!! Your gonna eat your words, Coletti....
Later
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by onerareviper:
Steve,
I'm having a blast!!! I respect 1badgts's opinion on the GT40, and his obvious admiration of the platform they 'may' choose. I love the car as well. Where I think we differ is our opinion on what the PVO team is capable of. As far as performance, I think PVO is the best team on the planet. These people are SPEED FREAKS!!! After seeing there dedication and commitment at Mid-Ohio on the Comp. Coupe, I don't have a doubt in my mind the Viper will remain King. At least in the $100,000 ballpark. That is my opinion, AND FACT at this time, until PROVEN otherwise. Bring it on Ford!!! Your gonna eat your words, Coletti....
Later
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hope you're right.
Steve,
I'm having a blast!!! I respect 1badgts's opinion on the GT40, and his obvious admiration of the platform they 'may' choose. I love the car as well. Where I think we differ is our opinion on what the PVO team is capable of. As far as performance, I think PVO is the best team on the planet. These people are SPEED FREAKS!!! After seeing there dedication and commitment at Mid-Ohio on the Comp. Coupe, I don't have a doubt in my mind the Viper will remain King. At least in the $100,000 ballpark. That is my opinion, AND FACT at this time, until PROVEN otherwise. Bring it on Ford!!! Your gonna eat your words, Coletti....
Later
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hope you're right.
Mike H
Enthusiast
First, the Viper is not the best Drag car by any means. I can bring along our 68 Camaro and put a 9 second tear in the quarter and all for less than 30 K invested. BUT its STILL ..ONLY a Camaro.
But bring all these rockets to the road course, INCLUDING the GT-40 and lets see what its made of. I doubt I will be selling my car any time soon....and I doubt it will have anything for me at the road course either!!!
But bring all these rockets to the road course, INCLUDING the GT-40 and lets see what its made of. I doubt I will be selling my car any time soon....and I doubt it will have anything for me at the road course either!!!
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Here's how I see it...
1992 - Dodge released "concept" Viper. Top performance car. Gradually increased HP from 400 to 415.
1996 - Dodge released Coupe with 450 hp. Again stays ahead of competition. Gradually increases HP to 460.
2003 - Dodge releases SRT-10 with 500 HP. Better braking, better handling again puts it into Top Dog status.
2005/6 - Dodge could release an up rated Coupe. Taking all it will learn from the convertable. The engine could be rated at 550 or so, the aerodynamics could be refined, and it would probably be untouchable.
All throughout this time there will be phantoms promised which will in theory topple the Viper. A new Cobra with factory NOS. A Mustang with a turbine engine. A C-7 Vette with computerized suspension, or a retro GT40 with supercharged V-8.
No matter...The Viper is for real...The PVO team is capable and motivated, and Dodge will be there in the long run.
Viva Las Vipers.
1992 - Dodge released "concept" Viper. Top performance car. Gradually increased HP from 400 to 415.
1996 - Dodge released Coupe with 450 hp. Again stays ahead of competition. Gradually increases HP to 460.
2003 - Dodge releases SRT-10 with 500 HP. Better braking, better handling again puts it into Top Dog status.
2005/6 - Dodge could release an up rated Coupe. Taking all it will learn from the convertable. The engine could be rated at 550 or so, the aerodynamics could be refined, and it would probably be untouchable.
All throughout this time there will be phantoms promised which will in theory topple the Viper. A new Cobra with factory NOS. A Mustang with a turbine engine. A C-7 Vette with computerized suspension, or a retro GT40 with supercharged V-8.
No matter...The Viper is for real...The PVO team is capable and motivated, and Dodge will be there in the long run.
Viva Las Vipers.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Clarification:
My $100,000 ballpark comment meant overall performance, and really only referred to stock production cars..... Let's keep this simple.
Later
My $100,000 ballpark comment meant overall performance, and really only referred to stock production cars..... Let's keep this simple.
Later
onerareviper
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Guys i really do hope you are ALL CORRECT .All OF US WANT THE SAME THING (Viper to continue to be the best out there.)
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Agreed. I just think we ought to give PVO/Dodge some credit for being the past/current king, and trust them to continue to retain the belt. YOU GOTTA BEAT THE CHAMP to get that belt.
Although, my trust is 'just a little' jaded after being so disappointed in the styling of the SRT-10. But that's another thread....... NO FLAMES
Guys i really do hope you are ALL CORRECT .All OF US WANT THE SAME THING (Viper to continue to be the best out there.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. I just think we ought to give PVO/Dodge some credit for being the past/current king, and trust them to continue to retain the belt. YOU GOTTA BEAT THE CHAMP to get that belt.
Although, my trust is 'just a little' jaded after being so disappointed in the styling of the SRT-10. But that's another thread....... NO FLAMES
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark O:
Is he any relation to Richard Burton??????????
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Is he any relation to Richard Burton??????????
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
eagles
Enthusiast
1bad: according to R&T mag', 360 modena weighs in at 3370 lbs; 911 turbo is 3670 and the Z06 is 3260, all 2002 models.
eagles
eagles
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by King GTS:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why do you guys think I am so **** fast on the track?
1 Bad G<FONT size="-2">at</FONT s>TS
I wish you'd get my name right man... I get soooo much mail addressed to Burton, Brandon, Branson, Bronson, Brenton, Barnton, Benton, Bruton, Brinton, and Brantin that it drives me nuts... it's not like my name appears spelled correctly in every post or anything
Having said that, I often mis-spell my own first name (no joke)
EDIT:
you gotta be kidding me... D-A-R-N is a censored word? What are we, in kindergarten here?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why do you guys think I am so **** fast on the track?
1 Bad G<FONT size="-2">at</FONT s>TS
I wish you'd get my name right man... I get soooo much mail addressed to Burton, Brandon, Branson, Bronson, Brenton, Barnton, Benton, Bruton, Brinton, and Brantin that it drives me nuts... it's not like my name appears spelled correctly in every post or anything
Having said that, I often mis-spell my own first name (no joke)
EDIT:
you gotta be kidding me... D-A-R-N is a censored word? What are we, in kindergarten here?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eagles:
1bad: according to R&T mag', 360 modena weighs in at 3370 lbs; 911 turbo is 3670 and the Z06 is 3260, all 2002 models.
eagles
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
..and the 2002 Mini Cooper S weighs 2678 lbs, maybe the GT-40 will be the size of the Mini Cooper
1bad: according to R&T mag', 360 modena weighs in at 3370 lbs; 911 turbo is 3670 and the Z06 is 3260, all 2002 models.
eagles
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
..and the 2002 Mini Cooper S weighs 2678 lbs, maybe the GT-40 will be the size of the Mini Cooper
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
Curb weights are such a tough subject. Only when the final production cars roll onto the scale is the number a printable fact. I was in the prototype shop in Munich building the E53 (X5) and the other project at that time was the E52 (Z8). All the talk was about this 100% aluminum car being under 3000 lbs. It comes in at about 3400. The Ferrari 360 and the Z8 are both aluminum AND smaller than the SRT (much) and weigh more...They both have V8's and the Vipers got a V10. Go figure.
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