Lightest rims in 18 x 10 and 19 x 13?

[rcl4668]

I have a set of the SRT "Sidewinder" wheels that I will be mounting on a 2008 Viper with Michelin PS2 tires. These are the same rims used on the new ACR. This setup will be used for normal street driving.

The fronts are 18 x 10 and the rears 19 x 13. I weighed these on a bathroom scale and got 17.5 lbs for the fronts and 25 lbs for the rears which is about 35 lbs lighter total than the stock wheels on the 2003-2008 Vipers. I have done just a little research on this and the lightness of the Sidewinders is impressive even when compared with aftermarket rim manufacturers.

Nevertheless, I am also interested in getting a set of dedicated track rims in the stock OEM sizes to mount some Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires or possibly the Hoosier R6 tires. What is the lightest (including magnesium, composite and carbon fiber construction) set out there that would be durable enough for regular track and autocross use?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

/Rich

 

[Kai SRT10]

Per the published specs for Sport Cups, wheels of 19x12.5 size would probably be better.

 

[rcl4668]

Per the published specs for Sport Cups, wheels of 19x12.5 size would probably be better.

Kai --

Thanks, I noticed that on the Tirerack website as well. However, I want to keep my rim size and tire sizes the same as OEM because I may use the car in SCCA Solo2 events and I believe their rules provide that you can still qualify for their stock class with aftermarket wheels and tires so long as you use the same tire and rim sizes as OEM. Also, I noticed that the new ACR uses the new 345/30/19 Pilot Sport Cup size on the rear Sidewinder rim which is 19 x 13, not 19 x 12.5.

/Rich

 

[j-rho]

Hi Rich,
I'll be interested to see what you find, as I am searching for similar wheels. I've talked to John Purner at CCW (Complete Custom Wheel - Welcome) and he says the SP16 style wheel he makes would be the lightest he can do for this application (stock sized wheels), though I was unable to get an exact weight figure from him.

Don't forget that in addition to stock width, the wheels must also have an offset within 1/4" from stock.

Oh, and as for wheel widths, for performance applications involving turns, it is generally best to have wheel widths at the wide end of the range, and perhaps even a bit wider. In some cases up to 1.5-2" wider than the wide end of the suggested range. Of course in Stock class we're stuck with stock-width wheels, where conversely, we are often forced to stick too wide a tire on our too-narrow rims. For instance, I am convinced the Viper will be faster with a 315/30-18 (11-12" sugg. wheel width) than the 295/30-18 (9.5-11" sugg.) up front.

 

[Vipermann]

I have done just a little research on this and the lightness of the Sidewinders is impressive even when compared with aftermarket rim manufacturers.

I recall that the Sidewinders were stated as saving 34lbs per set when Dodge first introduced them. I think that probably works out to a savings of about 8lbs per front wheel, and 9lbs per each rear wheel. ... If true that puts the stock wheel weights at about 25.5lbs and 34lbs, front and rear, respectively.

I would be curious to see how the stock wheels really do compare to some other aftermarket wheels. 3-piece wheels are said to often not save that much weight because of the weight of the bolts around the rim, with the primary benefit being custom fitment and looks. If wheels are Chromed that adds more weight. Over-size set ups (e.g. 20s) weigh more than the same wheel design in a 19, etc. (wheels weigh more than tire sidewalls, which is why racers run 18s).

The Sidewinders look 'OK' to me, and I had them on my '05. For 34lbs total, it's probably worth it, but if a set of wheels only saves 4-5lbs per wheel, I'm probably inclined to stay with stock ... and I like the look of the new Razors.

 

[MikeR]

There was a post awhile back of someone who changed out the 06 5 spoke wheels with runflats and he put on Sidewinder wheels and PS2's. I think the weight savings was like 70lbs total for all 4 wheels/tires. It was huge weight savings, especailly considering rotational mass.

 

[Vipermann]

There was a post awhile back of someone who changed out the 06 5 spoke wheels with runflats and he put on Sidewinder wheels and PS2's. I think the weight savings was like 70lbs total for all 4 wheels/tires. It was huge weight savings, especailly considering rotational mass.

A big part of that would be getting rid of those heavy run-flats with their thick sidewalls.

 

[MikeR]

A big part of that would be getting rid of those heavy run-flats with their thick sidewalls.

Suprisingly, the PS2's last time I checked Tire rack, were only about 3 lbs lighter then runflats. So a total of 12lbs savings. Though when you pick up a runflat tire, you would think the weight savings would be more, those suckers are heavy.

 

[Vipermann]

Suprisingly, the PS2's last time I checked Tire rack, were only about 3 lbs lighter then runflats. So a total of 12lbs savings. Though when you pick up a runflat tire, you would think the weight savings would be more, those suckers are heavy.

If true, then the 70lb total savings was overstated. The Viper magazine clearly quoted SRT as saying the Sidewinders netted a total weight savings of 34lbs. per set of four wheels.

 

[MikeR]

If true, then the 70lb total savings was overstated. The Viper magazine clearly quoted SRT as saying the Sidewinders netted a total weight savings of 34lbs. per set of four wheels.

Maybe, scales are like dynos, they all vary. lol So maybe with 12-14lbs savings on tires, you could gain 50lbs savings, thats still pretty darn good. Im actually in process of selling my Sidewinders and going to 19"/20" setup for looks. I guess I may be gaining a few pounds then.

 

[rcl4668]

Hi Rich,
I'll be interested to see what you find, as I am searching for similar wheels. I've talked to John Purner at CCW (Complete Custom Wheel - Welcome) and he says the SP16 style wheel he makes would be the lightest he can do for this application (stock sized wheels), though I was unable to get an exact weight figure from him.

Don't forget that in addition to stock width, the wheels must also have an offset within 1/4" from stock.

Oh, and as for wheel widths, for performance applications involving turns, it is generally best to have wheel widths at the wide end of the range, and perhaps even a bit wider. In some cases up to 1.5-2" wider than the wide end of the suggested range. Of course in Stock class we're stuck with stock-width wheels, where conversely, we are often forced to stick too wide a tire on our too-narrow rims. For instance, I am convinced the Viper will be faster with a 315/30-18 (11-12" sugg. wheel width) than the 295/30-18 (9.5-11" sugg.) up front.

J-rho: Thanks for the information. Given that I may use the car in stock Solo or other similar stock classes, I am probablylocked in to buying rims with the identical dimensions as the OEM rims (18 x 10 and 19 x 13). I did not even know about the offset requirement so that is good to know.

Regarding research on lightweight rims, it looks like SRT/Mopar did a great job with the Sidewinders, especially for a "factory" , OEM rim. As I stated before, I weighed the rims at 17.5 lbs front and 25 lbs rear. I have the latest issue of Grassroots Motorpsorts in front of me and the Tirerack lists the weights of various lightweight competition rims. Just to give you an idea, the SSR Type C/Type C-RS rims are 22 and 24 lbs in the 18 x 10.5 and 18 x 13 sizes. The OZ Ultraleggera (ultralight in Italian) is 27 lbs and 24.5 lbs for the 20 x 10 and 20 x 11 sizes. I have not really researched magnesium or carbon fiber wheels though.

I recall the Forgeline VR1 one-piece rim being fairly lightweight but don't know specifics and am not aware if it is still available in 19'' sizes.

/Rich

 

[j-rho]

Just FYI, non-metallic (i.e. carbon) wheels are not legal in SCCA Solo2, in any class. It may be just as well, if you happen to find any they're likely to be pretty expensive.

I imagine the CCW one-piece wheels like the SP16A are likely to be a bit lighter than the 3-piece Classics of similar size. My last set of Classics were 18x11 front (about 20lbs.) and 18x12.5 rr (about 22.5 pounds). So I'm guess the 18x10's would be about 18 pounds, and the 19x13 about 23 pounds. I suppose that's not much lighter than the Sidewinders, but on the plus side you can almost buy a complete set of CCWs for the cost of 1 Sidewinder wheel from the dealer...

 

[rcl4668]

Just FYI, non-metallic (i.e. carbon) wheels are not legal in SCCA Solo2, in any class. It may be just as well, if you happen to find any they're likely to be pretty expensive.

I imagine the CCW one-piece wheels like the SP16A are likely to be a bit lighter than the 3-piece Classics of similar size. My last set of Classics were 18x11 front (about 20lbs.) and 18x12.5 rr (about 22.5 pounds). So I'm guess the 18x10's would be about 18 pounds, and the 19x13 about 23 pounds. I suppose that's not much lighter than the Sidewinders, but on the plus side you can almost buy a complete set of CCWs for the cost of 1 Sidewinder wheel from the dealer...

J-rho: Again, thanks for the useful information about carbon fiber wheels in Solo2. Maybe I should just buy another set of Sidewinders for track use?

/Rich

 

[madman]

Just to give you an idea, the SSR Type C/Type C-RS rims are 22 and 24 lbs in the 18 x 10.5 and 18 x 13 sizes. /Rich

UhOh... SSRs are MUCH lighter. Around 15lbs or even less.

 

[JonB]

Rich.... you forgot to say where you purchased your 2008 ACR-style wheels ! Thanks.
The 34-35 lbs saved was off the 2003 10-spoke (boat-anchor)wheel weights.
It saves 25 lbs off the 2006 5-spoke wheels.

Doris has a set of Techno-Magnesio wheels on her RT10 PIR Pace Car-Track car..... in OE 18" They are even lighter than SSRs which weighed here at 21 lbs F and 23.5 R. Technos were the "secret Weapon" of ORECA in 99-00 and Daivid Donohue claimed his TMs saved him 1 sec PER LAP when qualifying. At his level, that is HUGE......

We also have 1 set of CARBON FIBRE SRT10 RIMS / MAGNESIUM CENTERS that is 12 lbF and 15R as I recall, but not OE sizes.

 

[JonB]

..... I am also interested in getting a set of dedicated track rims in the stock OEM sizes to mount some Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires or possibly the Hoosier R6 tires. What is the lightest (including magnesium, composite and carbon fiber construction) set out there that would be durable enough for regular track and autocross use? Thanks in advance for your advice. /Rich

PartsRack can provide you a set of "2008 ACR" OE wheels in full polish and clear coat, well under $3700/set of 4. Fronts weigh 17 lbs, rear weigh 25 lbs. They are 1pc Forged, and will accept OE TPSs. FOR THE MONEY you cannot likely approach this, unless a CCW set. If SCCA changes the rules, you'll wish you had OE.

The only lighter wheels will be magnesium (add $3000/set) or carbon fibre (add $4400) The endurance of CF wheels is in question. Some Euro experience anecdotes only.

Track-or A-X Performance For the money, you can add the ACR KW suspension (Under $3200!!! and IN STOCK) and the 08 ACR Rotors (IN STOCK UNDER $1700/4) and go faster than the Mg wheels will improve...

 

[AFL in NJ]

Hmmmm, Very impressive Jon!!!

Regards,
Aaron

 

[evomind]

I recall that the Sidewinders were stated as saving 34lbs per set when Dodge first introduced them. I think that probably works out to a savings of about 8lbs per front wheel, and 9lbs per each rear wheel. ... If true that puts the stock wheel weights at about 25.5lbs and 34lbs, front and rear, respectively.

I would be curious to see how the stock wheels really do compare to some other aftermarket wheels. 3-piece wheels are said to often not save that much weight because of the weight of the bolts around the rim, with the primary benefit being custom fitment and looks. If wheels are Chromed that adds more weight. Over-size set ups (e.g. 20s) weigh more than the same wheel design in a 19, etc. (wheels weigh more than tire sidewalls, which is why racers run 18s).

The Sidewinders look 'OK' to me, and I had them on my '05. For 34lbs total, it's probably worth it, but if a set of wheels only saves 4-5lbs per wheel, I'm probably inclined to stay with stock ... and I like the look of the new Razors.

is that stated weight savings over the 5 spoke rims or the base rims?

 

[rcl4668]

PartsRack can provide you a set of "2008 ACR" OE wheels in full polish and clear coat, well under $3700/set of 4. Fronts weigh 17 lbs, rear weigh 25 lbs. They are 1pc Forged, and will accept OE TPSs. FOR THE MONEY you cannot likely approach this, unless a CCW set. If SCCA changes the rules, you'll wish you had OE.

The only lighter wheels will be magnesium (add $3000/set) or carbon fibre (add $4400) The endurance of CF wheels is in question. Some Euro experience anecdotes only.

Track-or A-X Performance For the money, you can add the ACR KW suspension (Under $3200!!! and IN STOCK) and the 08 ACR Rotors (IN STOCK UNDER $1700/4) and go faster than the Mg wheels will improve...

Jon --

Thanks for all of the great feedback. Bummer, I thought the 2003-2006 10 spoke rims weighed about the same as the standard 5-spoke rim available on the 2006 and 2008 Vipers.

I can e-mail you about this separately but for the benefit of the others in this thread are the Technomagnesio rims available in the 18 x 10 and 19 x 13 stock sizes? Do you know weights? Also, if at the end of the day the Sidewinders are the best out there I will probably just order the same Sidewinder silver painted "blem" wheels I got from you last time around and mount thenew Pilot Sport Cup tires. I am not a big fan of the glossy black Sidewiders on the ACR.

Edit: Jon, actually how much extra would it cost to paint the Sidewinder blem wheels white?

Thanks,

/Rich

 

[Vipermann]

is that stated weight savings over the 5 spoke rims or the base rims?

If I recall correctly, the magazine was comparing to the 2005 'base' 10-spoke wheels.

 

[MikeR]

Like Jon B said, Fronts at 17lbs, rears at 25lbs for Sidewinder wheels.
I just confirmed that, I weighed mine on a scale. With PS2 tires on Sidewinders I was at 44lbs per wheel/tire for fronts and 56lbs per wheel/tire for rears. Minus the tire weight which is on tirerack website, they came in riht as Jon said. I'll be interetsed to see how much more my new 19"/20" setup weighs.

 

[rcl4668]

UhOh... SSRs are MUCH lighter. Around 15lbs or even less.

Madman --

I was just reading from Tirerack's ad in GRM, so unless it's a misprint . . .

/Rich

 

[Viper X]

Hard to beat the sidewinders if you go 18 / 19.

 

[madman]

Madman --

I was just reading from Tirerack's ad in GRM, so unless it's a misprint . . .

/Rich

... or it's my bad cause I spent too much time in gym... I only remember when I was carrying them when replacing tires I said to myself 'fxxx, this thing is like a feather', much lighter then 20lb weight at my gym

 

[rcl4668]

... or it's my bad cause I spent too much time in gym... I only remember when I was carrying them when replacing tires I said to myself 'fxxx, this thing is like a feather', much lighter then 20lb weight at my gym

Hhhmmm . . . "too much time in the gym." Sorry, what's a gym?

/Rich

 

[THEMASH]

The only lighter wheels will be magnesium (add $3000/set) or carbon fibre (add $4400)

Can i please get more info on these wheels? pics? size?
Thanks..

 

[SylvanSRT]

the Carbon fiber rimmed wheels are beautiful spokes are not CF they are used on Callaway C16 vette and Mosler MT900 very light

 

[THEMASH]

the Carbon fiber rimmed wheels are beautiful spokes are not CF they are used on Callaway C16 vette and Mosler MT900 very light

Sounds like the Dymag wheels...

 

[SylvanSRT]

i think you are correct i could not recall manufacturers name

 

[rcl4668]

Unfortunately on Dymag's website they do not appear to list carbon fiber or magnesium wheels in the 19 x 13 OEM size. For an OEM wheel, the Sidewinders just keep looking better and better . . .

/Rich