Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
What Jimmy said.
So whats your cable number so we can all log in at once?
So whats your cable number so we can all log in at once?
List of Dodge Dealers to be closed
- Thread starter PDCjonny
- Start date
bluequadcab
Enthusiast
Cindi, we met at VOI X and I just wanted to say I'm sorry to you and your family and all the employees and their families at the dealership. My family has always owned Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth/Jeep vehicles and I hate to see those dedicated to Mopar loose what they have worked for all these years.
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
I could only imagine. With other dealerships knowing the situations they will be lowballing for all inventory. Good luck and hope you can sell before that happens. I have a feeling lots of customers will be looking for good deals too but I would imagine it would be better than selling to other dealers?
Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
Just heard Canada is having dealers close too. Anyone have a link to that list?
I agree with Chuck becoming a Service Center. As he has done for many, checking out cars prior to purchase, he might consider selectively selling or brokering Vipers. I understand it is a very select car, but then there are few who actually know the car.
Just a thought.
Peter
Just a thought.
Peter
rcl4668
Enthusiast
Martin -- interesting; there was a comment in yesterday's Oregonian stating that there was no appeals process but in the article Timberline stated it would be fighting this decision.
/Rich
VENOMAHOLIC
Enthusiast
I just read this whole thread. I am speechless. My best wishes to all those dealerships.
black mamba1
Enthusiast
I dont think Chucks business will fall off much. I think we will still give superior service and better prices than the big boys. The remaining Dodge dealerships will DEFINITELY raise their service and parts prices feeling as if they have a monopoly in the area.
If I were still in CT I would never allow anyone else to touch my Viper except Chuck...I dont care what Dodge says or does.
If I were still in CT I would never allow anyone else to touch my Viper except Chuck...I dont care what Dodge says or does.
speedpup
Enthusiast
Average Chrysler dealer sells 300 cars + - and the average Toyota dealer sells 1500+ Stronger dealers with more money to upgrade facilities and personel. Horrible for those shut out.
They have been trying to do this for years but now it is easy in bankruptcy with little consideration for state laws that protected franchises to now.
Thank all the people who bought foreign crap to drive the domestics to the place they are in now. The economy just really pushed them over the cliff fast. They have two many dealerships for the market share they now have. Sad we gave this country away and all the countries dumping their crap here have basically closed markets to hundreds of the US product we could sell abroad.
The estimate is 140,000 will lose their job as a result of these dealer closing. I guess this is Toyoduh moving us forward. Dealer have till June 9th to sell all their cars as dealers and get rabates and other program discounts from Chrysler. After that the remaining dealers will be able to sell a new car cheaper. That means fire sale at canceled dealers now. This is after Chrysler recently told all their dealers to help Chrysler and stock up on product to show the gov they are a viable company. Now they get the shaft!
AZTVR
Enthusiast
I'm with you. I just can't understand why people would buy those crap vehicles buit by Toyoduh and others when they can have the superior quality and reliability that Detroit has always been known for.
tennis tom
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Your average person today is a lemming. They have been taught to be so by a mediocre education system that rewards the ability to memorize vast quantities of data. The lberal media, an arm of the Democratic Pary, (Consumer Reports is a good example) feeds them false information (mostly based on press releases from interested parties). These lemmings only believe what they read or hear on Meet the Press or NPR and regurgitiate it in the hot-tub. There is no discussion, no debate--it is impolite to question other's data-banks, doing so is the sure road to social exile.
The outcome is that the "sky is falling" and the lemmings are buying Priuses like they were early 60's VW Beetles. They are fotunate that today's vehicles are consumer disposables most have never lifted the hood on, desire to or know how.
bluequadcab
Enthusiast
I'm curious to how you figure Consumer Reports plays into this when they don't accept advertising and do all their own testing? IMHO, they just tell it like it is. In my profession, they have been correct.
Martin
Enthusiast
The media isn't always 100% correct about what they print... There is an active effort to pare down the list of cut dealerships. Here's a link to that effort:
Dealer group, Chrysler in franchise closing talks - Yahoo! Finance
tennis tom
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I came to this opinion after reading it for many years. It is written by humans. Humans are subsceptible to prejudices, conscious and sub-conscious. I havn't read one in years after tiring of it's spin. I bet if you poll who it's writers voted for in the last election, 90% voted for Obama.
Maybe I'll take a look at one and discect it's spin as an exercise. For an example, they think Jeeps are unrliable. I own two and have never had to take it in for warranty work. They compare it to vehicles used by soccer moms, not to vehicles built to be the most capable off-road. When you are going miles off-road is your criteria for reliability going to be based on does the glove box door line up properly or if it is going to get you there and back?
bluequadcab
Enthusiast
My sister has Jeeps and I'm going on a Jeep Jamboree later this summer with her. There certain issue's with Jeeps depending on model years. Such as the fuel gauge issues, and the Jeep she is selling now has an issue with the instrument cluster and you have to bang on it, also a known Jeep issue. It you take the number of Jeeps sold or still on the road, the majority of owners do not go off roading with them. So for all those that buy them so they can get around in winter or to say they have a "Jeep", maybe the glove box should line up properly. And really if you're going to build something, everything should line up properly. My best friend, whose is a mechanic, and my niece both have issues with the instrument cluster, and both are Chrysler products. Personally, every vehicle I have ever owned was a Chrysler product and the build quality varies with what years they were made and what model you owned. Most of my family has owned Chrysler products. So I'm definetly not bashing Chrysler or the other two domestic car builders. But seriously, across each domestic auto makers entire product line, they haven't been able to keep up or match the foreign automakers quality. If you read the Consumer Reports car reliability section, you will see that. And those figures are from the surveys they send out each year to their readers, not something they are making up because they have some political agenda or someone has given them big bucks to advertise in them. They are not for profit and don't accept advertising. By the way, when they make a mistake or are proven wrong, they even own up to it. I'm not one of those people who think everyone is dishonest and has a hidden agenda, there are still some good organizations in the world and honest people out there. And you really should read what they said about the presidential election before assuming the majority of them voted for Obama. It always upset me that the cars I owned in there didn't do as good as the foreign cars in initial fit, finish, and reliability, but it was my choice to own them and I did appear to have the problems that the charts showed, although not every one. If the big three built the best vehicles in the world, they wouldn't be where they are today. < All my opinion, let the flames begin.
tennis tom
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I own a business in frisco and live in Southern Marin. American vehicles don't stand a chance here, it's a matter of PC and status. You could gold plate American vehicles here and you couldn't give them away for free. People wouldn't be caught dead driving one here. America does make some of the best vehicles in the world for the price. You said it, Consumer Reports polls their readers and gets the results of their wants, desires and perecptions. Most vehicles are very relible today. they don't build lemons like the Yugo anymore.
The big three are where they are today because of politicans that can be bought by foreign interests who don't do what's best for this country. And it's all perfectly legal, it's called a campaign contribution and not a bribe anymore. Politicians have even made the bribe legal and they don't care about selling out there own country. The last election Bush was bashed for high unemployment and lack of job creation--Emperor Obama has just wiped out the American auto industry and all the allied suppliers and the dealership network. How come the liberal media isn't jumping up and down about the lack of job creation that just occured.
Our government should be protecting our indutries and jobs, instead it favors foreign manufacturers over ours. I've driven all kinds of cars and trucks. BMW, Mercs and Lexis are good cars and you pay extra for them over a comparable US make. People on the coasts, college towns and affluent communities make their car buying decisions on the basis of status and foreign cars have more status. This is because Americans have an inferiority complex and think anything foreign is superior. That's what they have been taught by our education system which is truly inferior. We have the greatest civilization in the history of civilizations yet we think we are the bad guys. That's just nuts. Thanks for the opportunity to rant. You invited the flame. Let me take a wild guess, you live in CT. and I bet you voted for Obama, did I guess wrong? I voted for McCain.
Actually, I think GM would love to go Q so they could get out of Detroit and away from the crooked political environment and the union goons who are sucking them dry preventing them from competing with foreign manufacaturers. GM and Ford have been global companies and have been successfully manufactruring vehicles around the world. They want out because they can't make a fair return on investment here anymore under the socialist goverment we now have. Capitlaism and making cars is about competion and we don't have either here anymore.
bluequadcab
Enthusiast
You guessed wrong, I didn't vote for Obama, and I didn't vote for bush either. I'll leave it at that.
how the cut was decided:
Chrysler LLC Update Regarding Current Condition of Chrysler LLC Dealer Network Auburn Hills, Mich., May 21, 2009 - The following are details on the current condition of Chrysler LLC dealer network.
Comments can be attributed to Steven J. Landry, Executive Vice President, North American Marketing and Mopar Parts and Service – Chrysler LLC:
“The automotive industry cannot support the number of dealers currently in the marketplace. From 1990 until 2007, the industry averaged 16 million new vehicles sold each year. In 2009, new vehicles sold are expected to be 10.5 million units.
“Chrysler is treating the rejected dealers fairly by assisting in the redistribution of remaining vehicle and parts inventory, as well as paying incentive and warranty payments due.
“It was not an easy decision to ask the court to reject a portion of our dealer sales and service agreements, but the reality is Chrysler’s viability depends on a vibrant, profitable dealer network. As presently configured, Chrysler’s dealer network does not meet that test. If the sale to Fiat is not approved by the Bankruptcy Court, the stark reality is all 3,181 dealers will face elimination.
“The process to evaluate dealers was a thorough, rigorous process that used a data-driven metric that included the following factors:
Chrysler LLC Update Regarding Current Condition of Chrysler LLC Dealer Network Auburn Hills, Mich., May 21, 2009 - The following are details on the current condition of Chrysler LLC dealer network.
Comments can be attributed to Steven J. Landry, Executive Vice President, North American Marketing and Mopar Parts and Service – Chrysler LLC:
“The automotive industry cannot support the number of dealers currently in the marketplace. From 1990 until 2007, the industry averaged 16 million new vehicles sold each year. In 2009, new vehicles sold are expected to be 10.5 million units.
“Chrysler is treating the rejected dealers fairly by assisting in the redistribution of remaining vehicle and parts inventory, as well as paying incentive and warranty payments due.
“It was not an easy decision to ask the court to reject a portion of our dealer sales and service agreements, but the reality is Chrysler’s viability depends on a vibrant, profitable dealer network. As presently configured, Chrysler’s dealer network does not meet that test. If the sale to Fiat is not approved by the Bankruptcy Court, the stark reality is all 3,181 dealers will face elimination.
“The process to evaluate dealers was a thorough, rigorous process that used a data-driven metric that included the following factors:
- Minimum Sales Responsibility
- A scorecard that measured sales, share, shipments, customer satisfaction index, service satisfaction index and warranty repair
- Facility (capacity, Millennium II standards)
- Location (optimum retail area)
- Dual (Dealer is dualed with a competing manufacturer)
- The market’s total sales potential
- 44 percent of the 789 “rejected” dealers are dualed with another (competing) new vehicle franchise and can continue to sell those makes of vehicles
- 83 percent of the 789 “rejected” dealers sell more used than new vehicles, many of these dealers will continue selling and servicing pre-owned vehicles
Martin
Enthusiast
I'm sure they 'tried' to use an objective set of metrics to determine franchise cancellations, but there are definitely some cases where either there are subjective criteria that should have been considered, or they just plain made mistakes in evaluating their data. I'd have to agree that there are many dealers on that list that should have called it quits a long time ago. There are also a few on the list that absolutely, positively, shouldn't have been on the list at all. Let's hope that Mr. Landry is willing to re-evaluate the choices and pare down that list a bit.
VicTxV10
Enthusiast
Here is a letter from a Dodge dealer not to far from me. Seems there is some politics involved in the closings.
May 16, 2009
Dear America,
Recently, Chrysler, LLC notified Rogers Dodge, Inc., in Alvin, Texas of their anticipated closing of our dealership. Chrysler has pled their story quite publicly for several months in support of their request of billions of taxpayer dollars. This is our story.
We occupy a 3-year old Dodge-designed building for which we paid cash when it was built. It was appraised at $3,700,000 in 2007. We qualified as a Five Star dealer for the 2009 calendar year. We have remained profitable through all of this downturn. We have in excess of $1,000,000 in working capital in our dealership. We are selling at or above market share. We pay $75,000 per year in local property taxes and collect millions of dollars annually in state sales taxes. We employ 38 Alvin, Texas residents who all pay property tax, sales tax and income tax.
The owner, Mr. Peter Mankins, my uncle, owns 6 other dealerships, and has no liens on any of his properties or franchises. He has maintained a car dealership in Texarkana, Texas since the late 1960s. He purchased that dealership from my grandfather, who purchased it from my great-grandfather, who rode shotgun next to his father when he was 9, as they were settling the Oklahoma Territory. My great-grandfather started in the automotive business in the early 1900s as a motorcycle repairman, which eventually segued into an International Harvester franchise, and, subsequently, a Pontiac franchise. I have a large family, almost all of which are connected with auto dealerships in one way or another. I state all of this so that there is no confusion by Chrysler or the bankruptcy court or the US government over whether we are a group of half-committed dealers - we are not short-term auto dealers/we are committed over several generations. Chrysler and its dealers have been portrayed in the media as regressive small-town morons. Speaking solely for the dealers, I assure you this is not the case.
In the past year, we have embarked on several creative initiatives in order to remain profitable and out of bankruptcy court. We have become a very competitive used vehicle internet dealer by patterning ourselves after the most successful used vehicle internet dealers in the country. Selling more used vehicles than new vehicles is one of the stated criteria upon which Chrysler based their decision to close us. Would Chrysler have preferred their dealers join them in bankruptcy court? It was never our desire to allow ourselves to be a burden on the American taxpayers; nor do we plan this in the future. Selling more used vehicles has enabled us to not only avoid layoffs, but to actually grow our employee population from 25 to 38 during the period of May 2008 to May 2009, a 52 percent increase. Further, in the first four months of 2009, our new vehicle sales have increased by approximately 50% by employing the same innovative practices within our new vehicle department. Though Dodge district sales are down by about 50%, our new vehicle sales actually increased comparing April 2008 and April 2009. In our parts department, we have created one of very few eBay parts stores selling new factory parts. We have listed in excess of 4,000 Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep factory parts and are by far the largest internet seller of OEM DCJ parts in the world. This has increased our monthly parts sales by approximately 35% in a short 5 month period. In our service department, we have recently added an additional service advisor, a service manager, and three additional master technicians, have endeavored to maintain the least expensive oil change in town and, effective this month, extended our service hours to 14 hours per weekday and 10 hours on Saturdays. We were on track to move to 24-hour/7-day a week service hours by the end of 2009. Just this month, we hired a graduating University of Houston student as a photographer and videographer. We began the process of taking studio-quality photographs of our inventory, something which no other auto retailer in the country is doing.
When Chrysler needed dealers to purchase inventory so that the factories could keep operating and their employees could retain their paychecks, we complied and ordered 10 months of inventory. Our interest on inventory swelled from $15,000 monthly to beyond $50,000 monthly. Effectively, we took pay cuts in order to support Chrysler's cause. When Mr. Landry uttered his veiled threat that Chrysler would "remember those who supported us and those who didn't," we felt that we had done our part to support Chrysler and its workers. Now, we realize that we were just supporting our own demise. Last week, we were given three weeks to dispose of five months of inventory. In doing so, we anticipate losing in excess of $1 million - we may actually have to inject capital into our business in order to go out of business. Our $2 million plus in equity in our franchise is now completely worthless. Further, we now face the very real possibility that our new building will sit empty for months or years until someone is willing to purchase it.
Despite all of this, Chrysler is taking our franchise so that it can be given to our neighbor across the street, Ron Carter Autoland. Ron Carter Autoland has the local Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Jeep, Pontiac, Buick and GMC franchises. They occupy a 40 to 50 year old building that does not comply with any manufacturer's design standards. They have recently moved their Ford, Chrysler and Jeep franchises into the same building, a violation of their franchise agreements with both Ford and Chrysler. They have recently cut their service hours, consolidated their used vehicle operations and laid off many employees. The manager, and a major shareholder, of Ron Carter Autoland is Mr. Cary Wilson, President-elect of the Houston Auto Dealers Association - apparently Mr. Wilson's political affiliation is very important to Chrysler, the bankruptcy court and the US government.
How exactly does transferring our franchise to our neighbor serve Chrysler's stated purpose of thinning out dealer numbers? The franchise will still exist - it will just have a new owner.
Though I am a Washington, DC-educated attorney and former employee of the US Department of Labor and the US Senate and an active advocate of the American way of life, it is difficult for me to view this abrogation of our franchise rights as anything more than a manipulation of US bankruptcy court and law so that Chrysler LLC can transfer wealth between dealers they like and those they dislike, those that have agreed to under-table favors and those that haven't, and to settle old vendettas. This is not the purpose of US bankruptcy protection and, surely, it isn't why the US Treasury has given billions to Chrysler to keep them in business.
This is our story; however, it is, unfortunately, not unique. Allowing this manipulation of US bankruptcy law will set a precedent that effectively invalidates all state franchise laws. Though technically a question of law, many of these closings are politically motivated. Thus, anyone with any interest in retaining the US economic system in its current form must contact their political representatives immediately. Small businesses will have no legal protections if these closings are allowed to occur. Rome is burning, America - please wake up.
Nicholas Parks, President
Rogers Dodge, Inc.
Alvin, Texas
May 16, 2009
Dear America,
Recently, Chrysler, LLC notified Rogers Dodge, Inc., in Alvin, Texas of their anticipated closing of our dealership. Chrysler has pled their story quite publicly for several months in support of their request of billions of taxpayer dollars. This is our story.
We occupy a 3-year old Dodge-designed building for which we paid cash when it was built. It was appraised at $3,700,000 in 2007. We qualified as a Five Star dealer for the 2009 calendar year. We have remained profitable through all of this downturn. We have in excess of $1,000,000 in working capital in our dealership. We are selling at or above market share. We pay $75,000 per year in local property taxes and collect millions of dollars annually in state sales taxes. We employ 38 Alvin, Texas residents who all pay property tax, sales tax and income tax.
The owner, Mr. Peter Mankins, my uncle, owns 6 other dealerships, and has no liens on any of his properties or franchises. He has maintained a car dealership in Texarkana, Texas since the late 1960s. He purchased that dealership from my grandfather, who purchased it from my great-grandfather, who rode shotgun next to his father when he was 9, as they were settling the Oklahoma Territory. My great-grandfather started in the automotive business in the early 1900s as a motorcycle repairman, which eventually segued into an International Harvester franchise, and, subsequently, a Pontiac franchise. I have a large family, almost all of which are connected with auto dealerships in one way or another. I state all of this so that there is no confusion by Chrysler or the bankruptcy court or the US government over whether we are a group of half-committed dealers - we are not short-term auto dealers/we are committed over several generations. Chrysler and its dealers have been portrayed in the media as regressive small-town morons. Speaking solely for the dealers, I assure you this is not the case.
In the past year, we have embarked on several creative initiatives in order to remain profitable and out of bankruptcy court. We have become a very competitive used vehicle internet dealer by patterning ourselves after the most successful used vehicle internet dealers in the country. Selling more used vehicles than new vehicles is one of the stated criteria upon which Chrysler based their decision to close us. Would Chrysler have preferred their dealers join them in bankruptcy court? It was never our desire to allow ourselves to be a burden on the American taxpayers; nor do we plan this in the future. Selling more used vehicles has enabled us to not only avoid layoffs, but to actually grow our employee population from 25 to 38 during the period of May 2008 to May 2009, a 52 percent increase. Further, in the first four months of 2009, our new vehicle sales have increased by approximately 50% by employing the same innovative practices within our new vehicle department. Though Dodge district sales are down by about 50%, our new vehicle sales actually increased comparing April 2008 and April 2009. In our parts department, we have created one of very few eBay parts stores selling new factory parts. We have listed in excess of 4,000 Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep factory parts and are by far the largest internet seller of OEM DCJ parts in the world. This has increased our monthly parts sales by approximately 35% in a short 5 month period. In our service department, we have recently added an additional service advisor, a service manager, and three additional master technicians, have endeavored to maintain the least expensive oil change in town and, effective this month, extended our service hours to 14 hours per weekday and 10 hours on Saturdays. We were on track to move to 24-hour/7-day a week service hours by the end of 2009. Just this month, we hired a graduating University of Houston student as a photographer and videographer. We began the process of taking studio-quality photographs of our inventory, something which no other auto retailer in the country is doing.
When Chrysler needed dealers to purchase inventory so that the factories could keep operating and their employees could retain their paychecks, we complied and ordered 10 months of inventory. Our interest on inventory swelled from $15,000 monthly to beyond $50,000 monthly. Effectively, we took pay cuts in order to support Chrysler's cause. When Mr. Landry uttered his veiled threat that Chrysler would "remember those who supported us and those who didn't," we felt that we had done our part to support Chrysler and its workers. Now, we realize that we were just supporting our own demise. Last week, we were given three weeks to dispose of five months of inventory. In doing so, we anticipate losing in excess of $1 million - we may actually have to inject capital into our business in order to go out of business. Our $2 million plus in equity in our franchise is now completely worthless. Further, we now face the very real possibility that our new building will sit empty for months or years until someone is willing to purchase it.
Despite all of this, Chrysler is taking our franchise so that it can be given to our neighbor across the street, Ron Carter Autoland. Ron Carter Autoland has the local Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Jeep, Pontiac, Buick and GMC franchises. They occupy a 40 to 50 year old building that does not comply with any manufacturer's design standards. They have recently moved their Ford, Chrysler and Jeep franchises into the same building, a violation of their franchise agreements with both Ford and Chrysler. They have recently cut their service hours, consolidated their used vehicle operations and laid off many employees. The manager, and a major shareholder, of Ron Carter Autoland is Mr. Cary Wilson, President-elect of the Houston Auto Dealers Association - apparently Mr. Wilson's political affiliation is very important to Chrysler, the bankruptcy court and the US government.
How exactly does transferring our franchise to our neighbor serve Chrysler's stated purpose of thinning out dealer numbers? The franchise will still exist - it will just have a new owner.
Though I am a Washington, DC-educated attorney and former employee of the US Department of Labor and the US Senate and an active advocate of the American way of life, it is difficult for me to view this abrogation of our franchise rights as anything more than a manipulation of US bankruptcy court and law so that Chrysler LLC can transfer wealth between dealers they like and those they dislike, those that have agreed to under-table favors and those that haven't, and to settle old vendettas. This is not the purpose of US bankruptcy protection and, surely, it isn't why the US Treasury has given billions to Chrysler to keep them in business.
This is our story; however, it is, unfortunately, not unique. Allowing this manipulation of US bankruptcy law will set a precedent that effectively invalidates all state franchise laws. Though technically a question of law, many of these closings are politically motivated. Thus, anyone with any interest in retaining the US economic system in its current form must contact their political representatives immediately. Small businesses will have no legal protections if these closings are allowed to occur. Rome is burning, America - please wake up.
Nicholas Parks, President
Rogers Dodge, Inc.
Alvin, Texas
AviP
Enthusiast
The way I see the post above, Rogers Dodge should close. They are selling only Dodge while Autoland sells everything else. And if I'm shopping for a car, who cares about the dealer's building! I don't care if it's an old barn like Tator's. And once I buy the car, my only relationship with the dealer is service. I don't see Rogers Dodge commenting on his service at all.
When will the auto companies realize that it's not the building but the vehicle quality and service that keeps us coming back.
When will the auto companies realize that it's not the building but the vehicle quality and service that keeps us coming back.
Lawrenzo
Enthusiast
This is a compelling letter- I hope this family business gets the attention it desrves in the media, and the lunacy of some closings come to light
Guys its very simple here Chrysler DOES NOT CARE about cust satisfaction ratings( or the VCA opinion on the subject esp considering the fact that the Viper itself may be dead )the only factor they do care about is how many units a dealer orders from them yearly (they are basically saying if a dealer was so great then why didnt they sell more cars )
tennis tom
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I couldn't disagree with you more. I almost cried reading this very compelling letter from a person who understands how the system works. The government is here to seve it's citizens and not to decide who shall live and who shall die economicaly based upon back-room politics.
One of the big platforms of the Democratic Party in the recent election was the "high" unemployment rate and "lack of job creation by the Bush administraton". We have a situation here where the Obama government is wholesale creating unemployment and destroying businesses built up over generations that have deep roots in their communities based upon politics.
I believe what the owner of the dealershiip is saying is true because I have been there myself. What is shocking to me is how fast the Obama government has carried out it's agenda to redistribute the wealth. If this goes on at this rate, I shudder to think what this country will look like by the next election if we ever have free elections again.
AviP, you are dismissing very cavalierly many people's livlyhoods. What if it were your job and everything that you had worked for for generations that was being destroyed in one fell swoop by a letter from the government?
What is going on here is evil!
tennis tom
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This is not about Chrysler anymore. This is about how the government treats it's citizens. The government, in the form of a bankruptcy court, is calling the shots here. The seeds of this were laid when Cerberus bought Chrysler to part it out.
Martin
Enthusiast
I'll preface the following with the statement that I'm not a fan of government regulation, and I'm not a fan of the current administration.
People seem to be forgetting how this whole mess with the dealerships came to be. The current administration, and the previous one, both tried to bolster Chrysler so that they could do a much more orderly restructuring. Dealership closures were always known to be inevitable because of the market conditions - but it was going to be market conditions that caused closures. The intent was not to have a BK judge be in charge and allow state franchise law to be trumped.
There were a small group of dissident investors who exercised their legal right to object to what the government was trying to do. For good or for bad, they felt that the negotiated terms of ROI weren't acceptable, so they decided hold out and to force a BK and let the legal system determine the fate of Chrysler, their investments and the dealership network. Folks, this was free-market business that caused this - not the government. The government tried in vain (some good efforts, some rather misguided, but their 'best effort' nonetheless) to keep this from happening, and it was that small dissident investor group that caused it in the end.
Many people say that those investors had the legal right to do what they did, which they did. What it came down to was "who's going to lose". Would those investors have to take a haircut on the speculative investment they made in Chrysler, or would the workers, suppliers, and dealer network have to lose tens of thousands of jobs? The government sided with negotiating out of BK court, saving most of those jobs, and letting the free market dictate which dealers stayed open and which closed. That small dissident investor group just wanted their investment money back. By the way, most had default insurance on those bonds, so in the event of BK, the insurance policy covered most of their losses - which was a big incentive to force the BK. Again, free market forces dictated the outcome, not the government.
Either way, someone was going to lose. My personal feeling as both a businessman and an accredited investor is that the investment group should have gone along for the ride and not forced the BK. Sure, some people will argue that it was right for them to exercise their legal right to force the BK to try and get more out of the deal. But, how is that any different than Chrysler now exercising it's legal right to do what it is doing? It doesn't seem to make sense to me, but they have the legal right to do it, so who's to say that they're at fault? Maybe it comes back to living up to a moral standard instead of trying to maximize 'anticipated' business benefits? Well, that's no different than what the investors should have done to begin with.
You can only do so much to try and negotiate a settlement out of court. Once it gets into court, things get messy and NOBODY wins.
Like I said earlier, I'm not a fan of this administration. But, fair is fair, and they did try to keep this mess from happening. At this point, the fire is out of control, and all the government has is a squirt gun to fight it. The government can not do much to affect the laws that dictate what happens in a BK proceeding once it's underway. The only people that can have any effect on the situation are us, the consumers. We have a voice, and people like Steven Landry at Chrysler need to hear from us.
If you deem it appropriate, please drop him a line at [email protected].
tennis tom
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Martin, you sound like a wise man and I have no way of disputing your knowledge of the legal facts, it would take me too long of a time to study the legal papers, nor would I want to spend my time that way. I would rather be playing tennis, driving my Viper or my Jeeps.
What I do know is, that the law today, is what you can afford to buy a politician to pass for you. Our laws are no longer being created for the general good but for special interest groups. They hire attorneys to draft laws, regulations and amendments to laws. These laws and regulations, are amended with time, to tighten the noose around business owners. These laws and regulations are preambled with words that claim they are for the general good or only to be short-lived to answer an "emergency". But, like taxes, once passed they never go away and only get more draconian.
I don't see anything that is happening in the US today, in the markets or the auto industry, that is for the general good. Regarding the "legality" of the proceedings, crime is rampant in our streets and laws are being broken all the time with little or no consequence. The thieves who break into our vehicles do so countless times with little or no punishment. They are out doing it again the same day before the ink is dry on their arrest reports. Why all the zeal to punish capitalists to the fullest extent of the law, when we have 30,000,000 illegals running around breaking our laws with no consequence?
This bankruptcy procedure may have the gov stamp of being "legal" but it has nothing to do with being good for the general welfare of our nation or it's citizens and the thousands of employees effected.
At the end of the day, when the folks who work in that bankruptcy court, cash their pay checks, those paychecks are signed by the gov. And, if they want to keep their JOBS, whether appointed or elected, they better tow the government line and do what's expected of them to do. If they don't they are going to be in the un-employment line with the folks who worked at the Dodge Dealerships.
What I do know is, that the law today, is what you can afford to buy a politician to pass for you. Our laws are no longer being created for the general good but for special interest groups. They hire attorneys to draft laws, regulations and amendments to laws. These laws and regulations, are amended with time, to tighten the noose around business owners. These laws and regulations are preambled with words that claim they are for the general good or only to be short-lived to answer an "emergency". But, like taxes, once passed they never go away and only get more draconian.
I don't see anything that is happening in the US today, in the markets or the auto industry, that is for the general good. Regarding the "legality" of the proceedings, crime is rampant in our streets and laws are being broken all the time with little or no consequence. The thieves who break into our vehicles do so countless times with little or no punishment. They are out doing it again the same day before the ink is dry on their arrest reports. Why all the zeal to punish capitalists to the fullest extent of the law, when we have 30,000,000 illegals running around breaking our laws with no consequence?
This bankruptcy procedure may have the gov stamp of being "legal" but it has nothing to do with being good for the general welfare of our nation or it's citizens and the thousands of employees effected.
At the end of the day, when the folks who work in that bankruptcy court, cash their pay checks, those paychecks are signed by the gov. And, if they want to keep their JOBS, whether appointed or elected, they better tow the government line and do what's expected of them to do. If they don't they are going to be in the un-employment line with the folks who worked at the Dodge Dealerships.
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Martin
Enthusiast
I definitely don't dispute any of that at all. At the very least, this is a good 'wake up call' for all of us that have been asleep at the wheel and allowing elected officials to do what they have been doing. The laws need to be changed, the corruption needs to go, and we, the people, need to take more responsibility and action in demanding change that sets our country on the right track again.
Lawrenzo
Enthusiast
The next Congressional election is in 2010.
