Lowering Springs vs Coil Overs
- Thread starter Synergy
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Mamba52
Enthusiast
Well since I have already replaced the front right/left I'm sure others have had problems too. Also replaced oil lines and cooling fan.
Your sure?
Mamba, with all due respect, When you purchased your Viper it was 5 years old with 16K miles. How do you have any way of knowing how the previous owner treated her if you weren't even able to tell that there was a giant dent in your frame???? (yes we remember)
perhaps the previous owner had a few run-in's with curbs just like you:
Perhaps the previous owner routinely hit a ***-hole on his way to work every day on the sh!ty roads that he traveled on?
Perhaps he went over speedbumps fast and routinely bottomed out the shocks.
Perhaps.... .... .....
There are a number of things that could have happened before or after your ownership causing premature shock failure. Your chalking it up to be a common Viper issue when in reality you have no clue.
I don't think that it is reasonable to take one personal experience in which you have no intelligence as to why it actually happened and then go assuming that it is typical of others, Then broadcasting that on the internet giving people false impressions.
In other words, Stop the BS.
Mamba, with all due respect, When you purchased your Viper it was 5 years old with 16K miles. How do you have any way of knowing how the previous owner treated her if you weren't even able to tell that there was a giant dent in your frame???? (yes we remember)
perhaps the previous owner had a few run-in's with curbs just like you:
Before I left i had a small run in with a curb and the curb won
Perhaps the previous owner routinely hit a ***-hole on his way to work every day on the sh!ty roads that he traveled on?
Perhaps he went over speedbumps fast and routinely bottomed out the shocks.
Perhaps.... .... .....
There are a number of things that could have happened before or after your ownership causing premature shock failure. Your chalking it up to be a common Viper issue when in reality you have no clue.
I don't think that it is reasonable to take one personal experience in which you have no intelligence as to why it actually happened and then go assuming that it is typical of others, Then broadcasting that on the internet giving people false impressions.
In other words, Stop the BS.
Steve M
Enthusiast
The stock shocks I took off my '08 with 11k miles were all just fine. The MCS stuff is even better
Actually, he was right, whether based on evidence or not. I have seen PLENTY of stock leaking shocks with no apparent outside cause behind them doing so. The worst offenders by far are the later Gen-2 ACR shocks, followed closely by Gen-3 rear shocks, followed by Gen-4 rear shocks. Gen-2 Koni's are very rare to leak, and I have not seen many front shock failures in Gen-3/4. The design is the problem. Late Gen-2 DSI shocks are just plain poor and under-dampened, and coupled with ridiculous springs, causes them to wear out and fail. The Gen-3 rears are actually over-dampened, but the shock is too long. This causes a big dip in the road surface to make the shock run out of travel, and compress the bump-stop. When the bump stop pressure combines with spring pressure, and then the car suspension "floats" after the dip, the shock is overpressure as it extends, and blows oil past the shaft seal. I have seen it dozens of times- an otherwise good shock that only leaks on certain events, and slowly runs itself out of oil over time.
Dan, He said "The stock Viper shocks always leak!!!!!!!" That is a false blanket statement that covers all vipers since nothing was specified.
Then went on to say that his problem ones were the fronts.
Your informative post says that you have seen some rear's on Gen3's prematurely fail. That makes him right in your mind
Great info though. Thanks for sharing your experience and critique of the possible issue with the Gen3/4 rear shocks. I wander what the SRT Engineers would say about that or if it has come up in any of our previous SRTEngineer Chat sessions?
Yes, it is well documented that the dynamic shocks from 01-02 ACR's are prone to leaking. This was an isolated issue on a small run of Vipers many of which have been switched to diff setups since they have experienced the leaky shocks and/or oversprung springs.
Most common issues with our Vipers are well documented on these forums. Search "leaky shock". 10-15 threads will come up relating to the 01-02 ACR shock issue.
Then went on to say that his problem ones were the fronts.
Your informative post says that you have seen some rear's on Gen3's prematurely fail. That makes him right in your mind
Great info though. Thanks for sharing your experience and critique of the possible issue with the Gen3/4 rear shocks. I wander what the SRT Engineers would say about that or if it has come up in any of our previous SRTEngineer Chat sessions?
Yes, it is well documented that the dynamic shocks from 01-02 ACR's are prone to leaking. This was an isolated issue on a small run of Vipers many of which have been switched to diff setups since they have experienced the leaky shocks and/or oversprung springs.
Most common issues with our Vipers are well documented on these forums. Search "leaky shock". 10-15 threads will come up relating to the 01-02 ACR shock issue.
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
Dan, He said "The stock Viper shocks always leak!!!!!!!" That is a false blanket statement that covers all vipers since nothing was specified.
Then went on to say that his problem ones were the fronts.
Your informative post says that you have seen some rear's on Gen3's prematurely fail. That makes him right in your mind
Great info though. Thanks for sharing your experience and critique of the possible issue with the Gen3/4 rear shocks. I wander what the SRT Engineers would say about that or if it has come up in any of our previous SRTEngineer Chat sessions?
Yes, it is well documented that the dynamic shocks from 01-02 ACR's are prone to leaking. This was an isolated issue on a small run of Vipers many of which have been switched to diff setups since they have experienced the leaky shocks and/or oversprung springs.
Most common issues with our Vipers are well documented on these forums. Search "leaky shock". 10-15 threads will come up relating to the 01-02 ACR shock issue.
The "BIGGEST" issue is that most of the Viper shocks, (primarily Dynamics) cannot be rebuilt reasonably, if at all. I have personally seen more leaky dynamics, front and rear than any other viper shock. Maybe its the preload, maybe its the road conditions, maybe its the way the rear geometry stresses the shock shaft. Bottom line is the stock shocks leak and it is either the fronts, or the rears, or both. It seems to happen more to the people that drive their cars.
Maybe PRONE TO LEAKS MORE THAN THEIR AFTERMARKET COUNTERPARTS would be more accurate? All shocks will fail and leak with time, some just take longer to get there. Making blanket statements does not give you credibility.
GTS-R 001 , I have a spare set of Gen2 Adjustable Koni's that i purchased used from a forum member for 150bucks a while back with the intention on eventually sending them to Koni to rebuild and possibly re-valve to stronger specs to mate better with my Eibach springs. Now that your fully adjustable compression/rebound/rideheight coilovers are on the market I'll likely end up with those (After hearing feedback from people who track them)
Out of curiosity, Do you know how much ballpark Koni charges to rebuild shocks? I might still freshen them to have sitting on the shelf for a Viper owner some day in need of stock components.
On the leaky Dynamic shocks. Your just talking about the limited run of 00-02 ACR's Right?
<---Are the stock Gen3 shocks the same as the stock Gen2 shocks? Or was the body lengthened and travel shortened resulting in more bottoming out like Dan suggested?
Out of curiosity, Do you know how much ballpark Koni charges to rebuild shocks? I might still freshen them to have sitting on the shelf for a Viper owner some day in need of stock components.
On the leaky Dynamic shocks. Your just talking about the limited run of 00-02 ACR's Right?
<---Are the stock Gen3 shocks the same as the stock Gen2 shocks? Or was the body lengthened and travel shortened resulting in more bottoming out like Dan suggested?
Dan, He said "The stock Viper shocks always leak!!!!!!!" That is a false blanket statement that covers all vipers since nothing was specified.
Then went on to say that his problem ones were the fronts.
Your informative post says that you have seen some rear's on Gen3's prematurely fail. That makes him right in your mind
My mistake- I glanced at his post, and for some reason thought it as two shocks on one side, not two fronts. It is less likely, but not impossible. I have seen front failures, just nowhere near the number as rears. If it had been one front/one rear, that is absolutely a believable scenario, I have seen it before exactly like that... my own car.
All that said, sure, it is not a 100% correct blanket statement... but to say these cars don't have problematic shocks is also incorrect. It is obvious he was just exaggerating for impact, and not actually saying every single Viper on earth has shocks that leak.
Uh, guys... the Gen-3 stock shocks ARE Dynamics just like the 01-02 ACR's. Different shock, same manufacturer.
Coincidence that they leak? I don't think so.
No, the Gen-3 shocks are not the same as the Gen-2 shocks, nor is the suspension. Travel, shock, suspension, and bump-stop are all different.
Coincidence that they leak? I don't think so.
No, the Gen-3 shocks are not the same as the Gen-2 shocks, nor is the suspension. Travel, shock, suspension, and bump-stop are all different.
Sonoman
Enthusiast
My left front 2005 OEM shock leaked badly at about 20k miles. After checking around on these, shopping for replacement shocks, I received a lot of inputs from Viper owners that the stock Dynamic Suspension shocks indeed are prone to leakage. This put a stop to my original idea of just replacing the shock with a new one, especially at the $900 each w/o spring. I went with KW V2s, but I am curious about the Vipair alternative, not just because the cost is attractive, but the ride quality is a big deal for me on this non-tracked car, so if they are even slightly better than stock or KWs I'd be willing to trade-in.
Mamba52
Enthusiast
Love my car and also love to work on it. When I removed the belly pan that's when I noticed the dent In my frame and unless you have x-ray vision you wouldn't know it was there. I do have a lift in my garage and when I'm under the car I do inspect for leaks. Are you Saying your shocks won't leak... Get back to me when you have 40k miles on your Viper.
Mamba52
Enthusiast
Your sure?
Mamba, with all due respect, When you purchased your Viper it was 5 years old with 16K miles. How do you have any way of knowing how the previous owner treated her if you weren't even able to tell that there was a giant dent in your frame???? (yes we remember)
perhaps the previous owner had a few run-in's with curbs just like you:
Perhaps the previous owner routinely hit a ***-hole on his way to work every day on the sh!ty roads that he traveled on?
Perhaps he went over speedbumps fast and routinely bottomed out the shocks.
Perhaps.... .... .....
There are a number of things that could have happened before or after your ownership causing premature shock failure. Your chalking it up to be a common Viper issue when in reality you have no clue.
I don't think that it is reasonable to take one personal experience in which you have no intelligence as to why it actually happened and then go assuming that it is typical of others, Then broadcasting that on the internet giving people false impressions.
In other words, Stop the BS.
I guess the oil line's don't leak either.
Steve M
Enthusiast
They do not...they dribble.
My stock shocks are sitting on the shelf, so no i do not think they will be leaking any time soon.
Ive run a set of stock Koni's to 50K and another to 40K
at about 50K miles i pulled my shocks to adjust them stiffer to better match my eibach springs. At the time someone was ditching stock shocks that had ~20K miles on em. I grabbed em thinking i could use those then send away my 50K mile ones to check the spec and rebuild if unnecessary. Now i'm up to 70K miles. Thats 50K on one set, 40K(20+20) on another. So i can respond to your request X2. Both set of used shocks were and still are functional and not leaking. However, I am not 100% certain of the full condition of them since they have not been on a shock dyno which is the only way to know for certain what is what.
So in my personal experience my shocks have never leaked. However i don't think that it would be reasonable for me to go onto an internet forum and make the statement "THE STOCK VIPER SHOCKS NEVER LEAK". Do you? Well maybe you do, since You took your 1 personal experience and said THE STOCK VIPER SHOCKS ALWAYS LEAK. (Heck, that statement of yours includes Vipers driven new off the dealer lot..., it includes all of our Viper's just sitting in garages apparently leaking away right now LOL)
Bottom line, All you had to do was share you personal experience and say "I had to replace the front shocks on my Gen3 Viper at XX miles" It also would have been further helpful if you had included the fact that you were the 2nd owner and had no knowlege of how the car was driven the first 16K miles prior to your ownership.
In contrast, it is perfectly acceptable & welcomed for someone like Dan(ViperSpecialty) to make a generalization on topics like this because his advise is based off of years of experience in working on hundreds of vipers.
Mamba52
Enthusiast
Agreed some Viper shocks will leak at some point in there life. I went back and looked at the shock in question and it a slightly different color making me think it's the one I already replaced. The other three have no signs of leaks. I'm going to weigh all of the stock parts that I have removed from my Viper. I will post as soon as I get a descent scale. Here is what I'm going to weigh.
Shocks (front,back)
Fly wheel
Cats
Exhaust
Cross over
Hood
If any one knows these already please Pm me.
Shocks (front,back)
Fly wheel
Cats
Exhaust
Cross over
Hood
If any one knows these already please Pm me.
DPViper
Viper Owner
Anyone install the Vipair shocks yet? Waiting for feedback. Thanks
Steve M
Enthusiast
Although I don't have the Vipair shocks, if you ever consider the MCS stuff and want to check it out before you plunk down that kinda change, just let me know.
DaDood
Enthusiast
I've heard they do a great job of lowering the car, but ride like hell. Other owners?
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
I would say you have talked to absolutely NO ONE that has these coilovers, you have maybe talked to someone that has my old coilover kit that I used to make a few years ago that utilized the stock shocks but you are absolutely incorrect about the new coilovers.
Here are some pics from VicTEx's install on his car
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Viktimize
Enthusiast
^^^^^ Can you get those with blue springs?? I know they won't be very visible from outside the car, but I'd still rather not have anything red on my car at all.
AbsolutHank
Enthusiast
Buy Hyperco brand...they're blue. But they definitely aren't visible anyways...
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
Hank is correct if you prefer blue we can install Hypercoil springs instead, Hypercoils are a little more expensive but if that is what you like we can do it without delay or issue.
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
You bet Ken, yours are on the way as well.
VicTxV10
Enthusiast
You heard wrong!! In fact, mine rides like a Caddy right now and I'm running springs of 500 front, 800 rear. I set the adjustment valves in the middle and it's too soft of a ride. I need to turn them up some to firm up the ride.
Also, thanks to Ryan for assisting me on the install via PM's.
Great product Steve.
Murray
