Michelin All Season 4 Versus 4S

[TexasViper35]

So I’m tire shopping and Michelin has new names for it’s Pilot Sport tires. This is the first that I’ve learned about a Michelin All Season 4 and a 4S. The All Season is a better value and is a 45K mile tire versus 30K for the 4S, although both will probably go half of that. They are both Y speed rated. Anyone know why the 4S costs more, and is it worth it? Or vice versa for the All Season 4?

 

[Monopoly]

You referring to As4 over the PS4S? Ones all season with a 540 treadwear and the others 300. Completely different tires.

 

[TexasViper35]

You referring to As4 over the PS4S? Ones all season with a 540 treadwear and the others 300. Completely different tires.

Yes, those are the two choices. Both are Pilot Sports and Y Speed Rated. Any real downside to the AS4? It costs a bit less and the treadwear is higher, seems a better choice. I just drive the car, no performance or track use. Highway and city driving only.

 

[MoparMap]

I would think you'd probably be fine with the AS4 for that. I've had the PSS on my car pretty much since I bought it and have really liked them. They were a great all around tire and have worked for me pretty much year round. I know you're not supposed to drive them in winter, but I've never had any problems with it. I'm just mindful of their limits when the weather isn't great and it's fine. I always tell people if you drive it like a normal car it drives like a normal car. Looks like the PS4S is more or less a direct replacement for the PSS though, so think the AS4 is probably going to drive like an older harder PSS. Maybe like the original run flats? I've never been on those though, so can't really say for sure. I think it would probably be fine for how you drive the car though.

For what it's worth, when I was using my car as my daily commuter I think I got around 25,000 miles on the front tires and almost double that out of the back ones with my PSS setup (or maybe it was the other way around, 25,000 on the back and double on the front). It's a little different now since I run them on the track, but I'll usually buy a fresh set and run them on the track for maybe two weekends (I only do one track weekend a year), then they go on street duty for the next two years and are pretty used up by then. Keeps a nice 2 year rotation going, but I also have a second set of rims to play with.

 

[TexasViper35]

Well I called Michelin. The ONLY tire they recommend for a Gen III is the Pilot Super Sport. The rears are “available“ once they decide to make them again, which hasn’t been since the start of Covid. No production date is set, it just hasn’t been discontinued, yet.

That said the S4 is approved for the front, it is N/A in the rear size though. The All Season 4 isn’t approved at all for the car. So there is no matching set of Michelin tires anymore.

I remember seeing Nitto Invos and a Toyo set. Not thrilled with either brand. The Pirelli P Zero is a set for later cars, and it’s wider. I’ve had Pirrellis on Porsches: they cost considerably more and last about 1/2 the miles. Mixing models of Michelins or others isn’t recommended but I guess it’s an option.

On a different note, the All Season 4 looks great. Y Speed Rated and capable in the rain. The 4S seams higher performance but can’t handle cold weather.

 

[Monopoly]

We are comparing an all season tire to a Summer tire compounds? For those who've driven on several sets its night and day difference with dry and wet traction. (I live North of Toronto gone thru a fair share of winters, summers, allseasons)

PZeros are OK. I went thru two sets on a 17' Mustang GT. They are only good when the temperature is perfect, wear very quickly and horrendous getting traction in rain when past 6/32. I got 7000miles out of the rears.

Currently running Nitto 555r2s on rear and old Michelin PSS from 2014 (which still have 7/32 left and starting to get cracks) on front which are getting replaced this spring with Nitto 555 G2s. The R2s are 100 treadwear and hook like crazy when warmed up but also get decent mileage compared to competitors. Also surprised how quiet they are.

How much do you plan on driving annually? I'm probably around 2k miles so tires would rot out before there worn. For AS I don't think they carry rear sizes as per Michelins website. This is as wide as they go.

MICHELIN® PILOT® SPORT ALL SEASON 4 335/25ZR20​

MICHELIN® PILOT® SPORT ALL SEASON 4 325/30ZR19​

MICHELIN® PILOT® SPORT ALL SEASON 4 285/35ZR18​

All seasons are typically meant for daily drivers not Supercars....but hey what do I know

 

[TexasViper35]

Not disagreeing with you on the "all season" thing at all. Its just that I've been through multiple sets of Pilot Sports, starting with the Zero Pressure and then transitioning to the regular and I've enjoyed them all. They consistently get 15K miles without issue and they meet my needs. As I said in the initial post I'm a driver not a racer. I put 15K a year on the car back in the day, then just a few thousand a year now, but I may push that back up as a daily driver very soon. So I liked the description of the All Season being capable of handling wet surfaces, and being Y Rated, versus the 4S being a dry season tire and not capable of operating in colder temperatures (if the tire somehow finds itself in 20 degree weather you cannot operate on it again until it naturally returns to 40 degrees); but the 4S is the only tire, other than the Pilot Sport, that is approved for use on a Gen III Viper. Any other Michelins placed on the car would void the Michelin manufacturer warranty against defects.

 

[Monopoly]

Ah gotcha. I like to accelerate hard from time to time and need all the traction I can get in the rear. For what your doing look into CONTINENTAL EXTREMECONTACT FORCE. I debated going this route for my next set. Assuming your looking at 345/30ZR19 sizes.

My local tire guy literally gave me three tires to choose from. Nitto NT05, R2/G2 and Continentals that fit our rears. Also said order them 3-4months in advance.

 

[MoparMap]

My dad had an 03 with Invos on it when he bought it. They seemed like a nice enough tire, though I didn't put many miles on them in the seat. I drove them on a track back to back with my car and they seemed to have a very similar feel, at least to my inexperienced hands. On the road I thought they were okay as well, though I didn't drive them in all the conditions that I've driven my PSS in, so hard to say how they compare in the wet or different temperatures.

As for the temperature thing, is that just a warranty deal or something else? I've driven on my PSS year round and live in Kansas, so they've seen everything from 100 degrees to single digit temps and I've never had any problems with them. I know they talk about cracking and stuff at low temps, but I've never experienced that in nearly 10 years of owning the car and driving on them. I know it's not necessarily great on them, but when the car is pretty much my best option for a daily driver it's what I did. It was either that or drive my 67 Dart or 71 Vette, and those aren't exactly great in winter either.

 

[MoparMap]

Yeah, I've got a while before I wear out the sets I have, but the PS4S seems like a nice replacement if it comes to that. I wonder if they won't phase the PSS out in favor of the new one eventually, but I guess only time will tell. The Continentals look interesting as well, but I think they seem far more aggressive in tread pattern than I would like for a daily driver sort of tire. The Michelin stuff just seems to have better water control visually at least.

 

[TexasViper35]

Yeah, I've got a while before I wear out the sets I have, but the PS4S seems like a nice replacement if it comes to that. I wonder if they won't phase the PSS out in favor of the new one eventually, but I guess only time will tell. The Continentals look interesting as well, but I think they seem far more aggressive in tread pattern than I would like for a daily driver sort of tire. The Michelin stuff just seems to have better water control visually at least.

I just put the 4S on the front, it has a similar profile appearance to the PSS’s on the rear. These are super nice, you will like them. Reading more about them it’s a very different beast as far as technology goes, everything is updated. The material feels soft smooth and light. The PSS has been around for 20 years or so, it was hard to go in a different direction but it was time for an update.

 

[MoparMap]

Wow, I didn't realize the PSS has been around so long. They have been a phenomenal tire though. Hard to ask for much more out of them. They are great on the track and on the street, so hopefully the 4S lives up to them. I finally got my engine all back together after my latest issue, so looking forward to putting miles back on my car to the point I'll actually wear tires down, lol.

 

[brewersprts]

I had Nitto Invo’s on the rear on my twin turbo Viper. They would not hook at all. Even into triple digits.

A couple months ago, I put Michelin Cup 2’s on the rear. What a world of difference. Get the best tires you can

 

[brewersprts]

Oh. And I just ordered my Cup 2’s a couple months ago and they had current date codes

 

[brewersprts]

And to the Continental tires. I just ordered a set for my Murcielago, because that is the only one currently available.

I have the tires but don’t have them on yet. Other Murcielago owns have had good things to say though.

 

[1Of3 09ACRs]

Just got my Gen IV ACR back from Prefix and **** Winkles said my R-Triple-8s were so darn loud on the chassis dyno that he's half deaf now...LOL. They are great summer/track tires though. Time for some new shoes. After reading this thread I'm going to look into a set of 4S'. Thanks for all the solid info.