Motor Trend discusses controversy

[mnc2886]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DRtHoZiVEk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[ViperSmith]

Ralph defends SRT
MT puts out a video defends themselves

 

[redrichard]

Guess what there selling ?

 

[ViperTony]

Whether or not we agree with the Motor Trend test results this review has unfortunately evolved into full-fledged advertising for the ZR1 and for the wrong reasons. I'm not sure what the exact expectations from SRT were for the GenV when they sent it out for magazine review/testing. There was, and still is, a lot of hype around the GenV. This may be a case whereby the GenV's expectations were set too high but I'm not certain if that's SRT's fault or our fault. We all wanted the GenV to wipe the track with the ZR1. Naturally, when this review and others came out many of us were disappointed even though the GenV performance is incredible, IMO.

The net result of the Motor Trend review is that while both cars have their own unique personalities, performance is similar. A cheaper, existing sports car beat the GenV around the track in the Motor Trend review. Whether we like it or not, this was the result of the MT test and probably not what SRT/Ralph expected. In simple terms, the review was a disappointment from a marketing perspective.

Ralphs immediate reaction to the review, frankly didn't help. I'm thankful Ralph stood up for the GenV but questioning Probsts' driving skills made the matter too personal. This has put Probst and MT on the defensive and in doing so has garnered the ZR1 even more free publicity and advertising than what this review original provided. I think this is another marketing misstep as a result of good intentions. I'm not surprised MT responded with this video discussion. It solidifies their initial review, defends their driver and frankly is just more free publicity for the ZR1 and sad.

I'm certain there are some marketing lessons learned here that will not go unoticed by SRT. But this 'battle' over the Motor Trend and other reviews on the GenV will not get resolved with tweets, video discussions, etc. It can only be resolved by action. I was reading up on Paul Mumford recently. Paul Mumford got in the Viper and raced. He didn't sell hype, he didn't call out drivers' skills or made excuses, he pushed the Viper, took it to the track and got the job done. He let his actions speak for the Viper and for himself. Action is what we need now.

If SRT wants to prove MT wrong...action is needed. Take the GenV back to the track and if it's true that there was a lot more left in the GenV...stop talking about it and do it. Otherwise, move on already.

 

[TrackAire]

Who cares about the ZR1 vs Gen 5 issue??....all that should matter right now is more air time of Jessi Lang, the hot girl in the video.

She reminds me of Kelly Bundy from the "Married...with Children" TV show but hotter and digs cars!! Whatever she's selling, I'm buying


Thanks for posting, good video insight on how they see the comparison.

Cheers,
George

 

[Early93Viper]

They seem to have a Corvette can do no wrong attitude.

 

[TrackAire]

They seem to have a Corvette can do no wrong attitude.

Well, since the ZR1 with the same tires as the Gen 4 ACR was able to beat the ACR's lap record at Laguna Seca with no crazy wing and aero package....I'd have to agree.

I'm not sure people understand just how fast that is around Laguna Seca in a car your grandma could drive to her nail appointment.

Numbers don't lie. For those that don't agree with the numbers, the easy solution is to take the car back to the track, invite the press and show us what it can do. Honestly, until then it is either put up or shut up....but I would never tell Jessi Lang to shut up


Cheers,
George

 

[Kratos]

This video is not good for the Viper. It makes Ralph and SRT look bad, and makes the Corvette look even better.




















...

 

[ViperSmith]

The video is to do one thing, drive traffic to MT. This whole "controversy" is doing just that, making MT more cash.

I really still don't see why SRT did it anyway.

Lets say it set the Laguna record. Well, everyone would have discounted it anyway since it wasn't a "Production Car" - there was simply nothing positive about doing it.

SRT needs to just get back out there and put its money where its mouth is.

 

[SnakeBitten]

This thread could easily rehash what has already been said ad nauseum about SRT's lack of understanding the game in sending out a car that was not equipped for the task at hand.

BTW consistant 2+ second disadvantage at Laguna and over 1+ seconds at Willow does not equate to the two cars having "similar" performance overall imo. The Gen V has trouble with the ZR1 in a strait line but loses pretty much everywhere else. As was said in a few of the above posts SRT needs to stop talking and start walking the walk with the Gen V. They should take a page out of there own Gen IV playbook. They didn't do a lot of talking with the ACR just a lot of whupping. Equip the Gen V properly and let it do the talking please.......

 

[2003 Viper]

Who cares about the ZR1 vs Gen 5 issue??....all that should matter right now is more air time of Jessi Lang, the hot girl in the video.

She reminds me of Kelly Bundy from the "Married...with Children" TV show but hotter and digs cars!! Whatever she's selling, I'm buying


Thanks for posting, good video insight on how they see the comparison.


Cheers,
George

WELL SAID!

 

[Makara]

Guess what there selling ?

Grammar? ...

 

[Makara]

Way too many people seem to be jumping at MT because the viper lost to the ZR-1. You could have a case if the other rags had vastly different results but they didn't. The ZR-1 has been faster around a track in everything published so far. Do they want to sell magazines? Of course they do, that's how they survive. If SRT wants the viper to survive, it had better get it's stuff together and put up a fight, and I'm not talking about Ralph tweeting, I'm talking about the viper winning some races against it's competition. Too many people are blaming the messenger in this one.

 

[FrankBarba]

When on Sunday....Buy on Monday...Corvette took over Lemans & Endurance Racing when ORECA
left Viper Racing. No other team can come close to what they did.

 

[Torquemonster]

Way too many people seem to be jumping at MT because the viper lost to the ZR-1. You could have a case if the other rags had vastly different results but they didn't. The ZR-1 has been faster around a track in everything published so far. Do they want to sell magazines? Of course they do, that's how they survive. If SRT wants the viper to survive, it had better get it's stuff together and put up a fight, and I'm not talking about Ralph tweeting, I'm talking about the viper winning some races against it's competition. Too many people are blaming the messenger in this one.

Stop being so logical and reasonable. It spoils a good whine

 

[TrackAire]

Way too many people seem to be jumping at MT because the viper lost to the ZR-1. You could have a case if the other rags had vastly different results but they didn't. The ZR-1 has been faster around a track in everything published so far. Do they want to sell magazines? Of course they do, that's how they survive. If SRT wants the viper to survive, it had better get it's stuff together and put up a fight, and I'm not talking about Ralph tweeting, I'm talking about the viper winning some races against it's competition. Too many people are blaming the messenger in this one.

Jesus Makara.....I am so tired of people like you coming on to forums like this and trying to use common sense! You need to pour yourself a glass a Viper flavored Kool-Aid and get with the program

Seriously, I don't know how you could make your post any clearer regarding the ZR1 vs the Gen 5 and what needs to be done for Gen 5 success. On the flip side, having a Gen 5 that under performs but costs on average over $125k will probably keep used Gen 4 values a little stronger than anticipated

Cheers,
George

 

[VENOM V]

This is an interesting piece, and in some ways fair. Although I think Johnny Lieberman was his typical ****** self, Angus Mackenzie summed up some good points.

-Tires and brakes are not as good on the Viper (beating a dead horse, I know)
-Perhaps the suspension can be tuned a little more on the Gen V. I wouldn't be surprised if SRT iterated and improved here, over the next year or two
-1st iteration of Viper, whereas ZR1 has been iterating for years, to perfection

Did you guys catch that there's a "track special" Viper coming? (in addition to the ACR being likely) I'd like to see what that's about- Trofeos? Better brakes? This has my curiosity.

The Gen V Viper will continue to improve.

 

[Policy Limits]

Had C6 & have Gen V on order...i dont get the comparo..like these guys said, the vehicles are extremely similar. is one a 1/2 second faster due to steering or brakes? yes. and so what? i've seen less than 5 vipers from any generation in the wild in the past 20 years that the snake has been in existence. I've seen way more F cars than that!! and waaaayy more vettes. to be fair most weren't zr1's but the fact that the styling of the base looks very similar to the zr1 is a big fail for me; very little seperation. sorta like a mass produced cayenne or panamera having that porsche "look" as a gt2 rs. it just ruins it for me.

unless you're in the gts-r and really a race car driver, who cares? performance of course is super important. but i guess i value sound, look, styling and exclusivity over speed. speaking of which, i just cant believe the praise of that c7! the rear is awful. i really want to like it so I order one. but for that to occur I'd really have to see it in person and be shocked at how the pics on the web did it zero justice.

 

[v10enomous]

Chevy is coming out with a 450hp corvette for their first rendition of the C7. That's what they're selling right now. We can talk C6 ZR1 and Gen4 ACR but that's history... right now they have a 450hp car with controversial styling that nobody has any idea what the final weight or actual hp will be and no clue what it will do on a track but it's the "Big Winner" of the whole discussion Wow they must be getting clues on how to deliver talking points from Washington

 

[Makara]

Chevy is coming out with a 450hp corvette for their first rendition of the C7. That's what they're selling right now. We can talk C6 ZR1 and Gen4 ACR but that's history... right now they have a 450hp car with controversial styling that nobody has any idea what the final weight or actual hp will be and no clue what it will do on a track but it's the "Big Winner" of the whole discussion Wow they must be getting clues on how to deliver talking points from Washington

It is the big winner as far as excitement from the crowd and press at the Detroit car show is what it sounded like to me. That seems like an honest appraisal.

 

[Makara]

This is an interesting piece, and in some ways fair. Although I think Johnny Lieberman was his typical ****** self, Angus Mackenzie summed up some good points.

-Tires and brakes are not as good on the Viper (beating a dead horse, I know)
-Perhaps the suspension can be tuned a little more on the Gen V. I wouldn't be surprised if SRT iterated and improved here, over the next year or two
-1st iteration of Viper, whereas ZR1 has been iterating for years, to perfection

Did you guys catch that there's a "track special" Viper coming? (in addition to the ACR being likely) I'd like to see what that's about- Trofeos? Better brakes? This has my curiosity.

The Gen V Viper will continue to improve.

While the Gen V will continue to improve, I'm not sure that the car being all new is an excuse to lose a race against it's now out of production and antiquated competition. If the new ZR1 comes out slower than the old ZR1, would we be laughing at the vette guys or would we say, "Well, it's an all new model, of course it is inferior as a sports car, it will take several model years to make it as good as the old one..." BS, the new model should be better and faster. It's a sports car, that is what they are made for.

The only thing we can really hope for is that the mule they sent out wasn't near what a production car can do, otherwise that refresh that Sergio was talking about for next year's viper had better include some things that make it a few seconds a lap faster around a race track (Just to break even with the old, cheaper corvette) Don't get mad, just telling it like it is.

 

[ViperSmith]

The new viper time was within 1/2 a second of Randy's time in the GenIV ACR, I still don't get why people think it is a slow pig. By that metric, Randy should have no issue cleaning up at the ring.

And if all it take is new tires and brakes to run over the ZR1, who gives hoot? Slap them on and set a record.

 

[Zentenk]

Gen V got ousted on it's first outing. It has to be the LED xmas light strip eye liner slowing it down.

 

[Makara]

The new viper time was within 1/2 a second of Randy's time in the GenIV ACR, I still don't get why people think it is a slow pig. By that metric, Randy should have no issue cleaning up at the ring.

And if all it take is new tires and brakes to run over the ZR1, who gives hoot? Slap them on and set a record.

Not a slow pig at all, just slower than the competition.

When the ZR1 guys were talking about all that was needed to take back the Nurburgring record was putting the cups and wings on, they looked ridiculous. Stock is stock is stock. Just a mod here or there is no longer stock and making claims that one car is faster than another is then apples and oranges.

 

[Tenney]

Was a lose/lose sending a new Viper against an out-going 'Vette. If the Viper wins, well, it beat the "old" ZR1. Oh, and it's a preproduction Viper, so not even a "real" car - and so wouldn't "count", anyhow. And if the Viper loses, well, we're kinda seeing how that goes.

Randy might not be all that fast by internet standards, but he's a pretty decent shoe in real life - and drove both cars back-to-back. Not much to work w/excuse-wise.

Maybe next time (next year?) SRT comes back w/the new ACR, Chevy brings the new ZR1 and MT brings Randy and we do it again? Round 1 laying plenty 'o promotional groundwork, obviously. I know I'd tune in.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Maybe next time (next year?) SRT comes back w/the new ACR, Chevy brings the new ZR1 and MT brings Randy and we do it again? Round 1 laying plenty 'o promotional groundwork, obviously. I know I'd tune in.

I agree with most of your post. But the fact that SRT may need a track oriented car like the ACR to beat GM's GT car is sad imo. SRT's is marketing the Viper GTS as their ultimate "GT" car so it should be the model to beat GM's "old" ultimate GT, the ZR1. But it cant in its current form and that's solely SRT's fault, not MT, C&D or Randy Pobst's fault. Waiting for the upcoming ACR to handle the OLD ZR1's numbers diminishes the GTS bigtime.

Like I said in the first magazine thread, SRT is GM's best marketing division. And the bleeding will continue until they correct the brakes, tire and suspension tuning asap.

 

[DMan]

Yea I don't think anything in that vid is outta line & generally I don't care for MT or any mags, and that includes what they said about other cars, although I don't think the new lexus IS is hideous, actually I like the new lexus design better than any old ones, but then I'm far from a lexus guy.

I know SRT has been in hyping mode, but I too think it was ill advsed to put a pre-production GTS on track with a tried & proven ZR1. That said, I'm not devastated by it all, the production car will be better, the ZR1 is an insane perf car, look at the vehicles that come behind the Gen5 & ZR1. I know that for me, the Gen5 will be all that I can ever want for track days and street. Track pack brakes I'm OK with honestly, but tires need a changin.

But .. if SRT is hyping on the R of the SRT (which I love), then yea, they need the production car to do better. I know it's hind sight at this point, but I still don't get allowing the track test on a mule. Like posted above, if it won, it wouldn't count cause it's a mule, if it lost, no one cares it's a beat on mule, just that the "old" ZR1 beat the new Viper, and I'm hearing that like everywhere now.

I'll say one thing, if SRT goes back and pits car vs car & driver vs SRT driver and gets beat by a nano-second, it'll be soooo bad, you know MT would dedicate a center spread to the repeat beating and SRT eating crow. Of course if SRT wins it'll be a 2x2 captioned image on the inside flap of the mag. lol

 

[MTGTS]

Everyone is talking about GM and SRT.

I bet Michelin is feeling pretty good about themselves at the moment and Pirelli now has pressure from a manufacture to produce a product better or equal to a PSC. This isn't the worst thing that could happen long term. The ACR will have even more refinements and will get a specific Trefeo R tire. ACR will beat this ZR1 record by over a second with even Probst driving it. More if Kuno does.

 

[redtanrt10]

Viper Tony, real good post, Ralph got caught off guard by the results which is suprising as the spec's on the cars are a dead heat and like it or not you have to give the tire and brake advantage to the vette. I'm not a fan of the arrogant Randy Probst but he's a good driver and I don't beleive he had bias. Can Kumo W driver the Gen V faster, sure, would he be motivated to hammer the ZR-1, probably not.

Trackaire, laughted with your post, sure does look like Kelly Bundy!

Lot's of other good comments posted too. I've had a chance to read a number of articles on the C-7, they've done some great work both outside and inside and by inside I don't mean the interior. They learned a ton from their racing experience that has gone into the new car, things like the diff and trans coolers and how their vented. Wish the Gen V had those type of innovations. SRT doesn't get the same level of feedback since they quit the viper racing program. I don't think the new ZR-1 is going to have any significant new power but I'm sure they'll shed weight and have even more road racing innovations, and, a price similar to the current.

SRT needs to step up the game and I hope that to beat the next ZR-1 the Gen V ACR won't move the price tag to 150K plus

 

[madninjaskillz]

People have made some good points here (grammar aside). I completely agree with SRT needing to shut their mouthpiece and fix the car. Also, I agree with Mtgts. Pirelli looks like **** right now in my eyes, putting out an inferior more expensive tire. Never have been a fan of Pirellis and this confirms what I have always thought. We don't want an overly priced, American F car/tire.