Motor Trend discusses controversy

[Coloviper]

Follow your heart and what excites you. Too many on here have "analysis paralysis".

I still can't believe you guys are whinning about this. Just weird, as so many so called die hard muscle car and sports car fanatics are hamering on the Viper for style and grace, yet adding 40 hp, but praising Vette for weird unstylish design (rear end is inexcuseable), yet dropping 190 hp? I don't care about model this or that excuse in the vette. It is almost 200 hp down. What is wrong with you people?

All future upgrades from vette are future, with zero assurity of even coming out. You talk about them as being 100% sorted with documented performance numbers already. Ha! Ha! Do you understand how childish you sound?

The whole Viper / Vette comes down to what my Great Uncle use to always say: "you can always teach a pretty girlfriend to cook, but an ugly girlfriend will always be ugly." RIP Uncle Nick.

 

[redtanrt10]

How close to the Probst times do you think the best in the group will run?

Jack, at last summers event, with the 92 db rule (that requires you to lift in straight between 5 and 6, or get tossed)

The Laguna Seca did 1:34.1 (headers, exhaust, hoosiers)

The '10 Aero coupe did 1:36.5 (stop techs, hoosiers, stock motor and suspension)

With good weather like last year and no sound restriction these guys can be .5 to 1.0 second quicker, maybe more?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[slitherv10]

Its too funny how the most important thing that SRT was concerned about when trying to put this car together was what VCA and Viper owners and Viper enthusiasts as well as the future "educated , intelligent upper class" buyers that they set out to attract with this car had to say. Now that they put that car that, was set out to get the "NEW" market of buyer into production, they seem to be the same people that are dissapointed in the performance wars...lol....sooooo many threads were made here in the forums about the disappointment of this new cars performance and everyone bashed those that made those comments. Only to see now that they were very relevant and becoming.
The fancy interiors and launch this and feel that about the new car has always come down to one thing...over and over again....thread after thread....comment after comment.....even Ralph is trying to defends its performance. I don't see anyone bashing the reviews about the uncomfortable interior that some have said....i dont see Ralph or anyone here or any forums or threads defending the creature comforts that have been bashed by review'rs.

Once again...i emphasize the unfortunate marketing tool that SRT used to promote this Vehicle for 2 years. Making it soooo secret and gave it such a hype that we all were preparing for a car that would once again do what the "disappointing" Gen 2 GTS in 96 as Ralph and so many others on here call the past cars that put us on this map as one of the fastest and most feared cars on the planet back in the Gen 1 and especially in 1996 with the GTS which wiped out all comments and aversions of what this car stood for. We are Viper because of those cars and not this new car. Dont ever forget that people. We have stood tall in the past because of the introduction of the Gen 1 and Gen 2 GTS and the 2010 ACR which left competitors looking back and wondering how to compete. It took Corvette till 2006 with the ZO6 to beat the 96 GTS quarter mile times...thats 10 years people....10 Years!!!
Lets stop trying to convince ourselves that teh new car is all that. Its not. Ofcourse it has nicer seats and dash, ofcourse it has more technology, ofcourse it has lots of gadgets, ofcourse it has more refined lines and more functional body styling...ofcourse..ofcourse...ofcourse...but....its still doesnt have what the Viper always had......

No competitors.....

IF YOU BUILD IT ( with more power)..THEY WILL COME !!! PERIOD !!!!!

 

[chorps]

Are these new buyers the people that come to these boards and post? I don't know... I also don't think that being the #1 performance king is that big of deal in that slice of the market either. Otherwise the Gallardo, 458, 911 turbo etc., would never sell from one year to the next as the performance crown has changed hands.

Since I'm not one of 'those guys,' I'm just guessing when I think that there is a minimum performance barrier, a minimum luxury/toys/comfort barrier that they use to judge whether it fits within their purchasing criteria. Following that though, the final issue is exclusivity. I'm thinking that they don't all want to have identical gear or see the proles driving around with the same stuff, so I'm guessing the new Viper has the interior and refinement chops to sell into that market, where the previous generations were just too crude to qualify. So losing to the ZR1 doesn't really bother them that much, if they even know about it all.

I think the biggest problem that the new Viper faces in getting into this ahem, 'rarefied' market, is the the dealer experience. I really don't think that these traditional Porsche and Ferrari guys want to enter a dealership that has 0% signs, hot dogs and balloons plastered about and screaming kids running around. That means in order to sell to them, SRT will have to build an 'exclusive experience' to even get them into the door...which means expensive accoutrements etc. for the upsell. Just like Lexus had to be formed to move upscale from Toyota, for all that's good and bad (think rising prices to pay for the 'luxury') about it.

Almost none of that has anything to do with the Gen V being beaten or beating the ZR1. All of those other cars got clobbered by the ZR1 too, but most owners of the other brands already look down their nose at the Corvette (and many look down at the Viper as well). Case in point, the Nissan GT-R should have sold out and the Porsche 911 turbo sold zero units, based on performance and price, but we all know that's not the case, since they are similar cars. Sales numbers aren't always based on performance numbers or even rational thought.

For better or for worse, the new Viper is chasing an upper end market. I'm hoping that Ralph doesn't forget about us 'little guys', who care about maximum performance and aren't rolling in dough. I'm not certain this can be done because in order for the Viper to have snob appeal, almost by definition the average joe has to be left behind. In other words, we're the only guys who care about the Gen V being beaten by the ZR1, and we don't matter as much as we used to...

 

[TrackAire]

Based on units sold per year, percentage-wise I'm betting that the Gen 5 will be the least tracked Viper when compared to the Gen 2, 3 and 4. I just don't see a future where a lot of people are going to beat on a $140k plus car the way they did in earlier generation Vipers. Now if the Gen 5 is sold overseas, I do think it will be a popular track car because of its cost in relation to what is available with similar performance.

A lot of what Chorps says is correct......status, customer service, quality, performance (even if not used) and exclusivity is why most people buy a car in the Gen 5's price range.

Pretty much the same reason people wear Rolex watches instead of a Timex.


Cheers,
George

 

[madninjaskillz]

Coloviper you're just plain wrong. There was zero increase in power on the new Viper. Anyone who follows the car knows this. It was a marketing gimmick that failed miserably in many of our eyes.
Slitherv10 and chorps: good posts. agree with just about everything you guys said.

 

[SnakeBitten]

+1 on Slithev10 and Chorps posts. Completely agree.

 

[09 Venom]

Coloviper you're just plain wrong. There was zero increase in power on the new Viper. Anyone who follows the car knows this. It was a marketing gimmick that failed miserably in many of our eyes.
Slitherv10 and chorps: good posts. agree with just about everything you guys said.

Did any of the mags get an 11.4 @128 from a gen IV. I couldnt find any. And please dont bring up some runs at the super fast MIR track, on crisp cold days. I am sure under those same circumstances the gen V will be faster.

 

[Coloviper]

Ninja;

Say what you want, I was right here in Colorado with the high altitude test SRT teams twice. One or two magazine tests on a track do NOT tell you what power is in the car, there are too many factors to determine that. The car absolutely has more power and I am willing to bet the 640 is underated slightly.

Don't come down here and try to talk down like you know exactly what is going on based upon following this or that internat chat info. It's the paranoid, childish, sky is falling posting BS that is instilling unnecessary paranoia. Do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to even complain that the car does not have strong enough brakes nor the right tires to make it the best ever? Those are wearable items and you do not think that someone paying $150K for everything great the base car provides, can not pony up an extra $10K+ for new tires and different brakes if they plan on racing it.

Come on, use your head. Get a grip! The car is the best based upon what they had to work with. Anyone close to the actual design team members can tell you that. Just tired of of all the negative press. The car is better than the old one, people need to get over that. It is not all about racing and the new buyers realize this. If I had the scratch, I would have a new one but I don't. It is pointless to even debate it.

 

[1BADGTS]

Did any of the mags get an 11.4 @128 from a gen IV. I couldnt find any. And please dont bring up some runs at the super fast MIR track, on crisp cold days. I am sure under those same circumstances the gen V will be faster.

Yes MUSCLE MUSTANG and FAST FORD actually got an 11.2 at 128plus in my STOCK GEN 4 vert run at ETOWN on a hot summer day

 

[Policy Limits]

Are these new buyers the people that come to these boards and post? I don't know... I also don't think that being the #1 performance king is that big of deal in that slice of the market either. Otherwise the Gallardo, 458, 911 turbo etc., would never sell from one year to the next as the performance crown has changed hands.

Since I'm not one of 'those guys,' I'm just guessing when I think that there is a minimum performance barrier, a minimum luxury/toys/comfort barrier that they use to judge whether it fits within their purchasing criteria. Following that though, the final issue is exclusivity. I'm thinking that they don't all want to have identical gear or see the proles driving around with the same stuff, so I'm guessing the new Viper has the interior and refinement chops to sell into that market, where the previous generations were just too crude to qualify. So losing to the ZR1 doesn't really bother them that much, if they even know about it all.

I think the biggest problem that the new Viper faces in getting into this ahem, 'rarefied' market, is the the dealer experience. I really don't think that these traditional Porsche and Ferrari guys want to enter a dealership that has 0% signs, hot dogs and balloons plastered about and screaming kids running around. That means in order to sell to them, SRT will have to build an 'exclusive experience' to even get them into the door...which means expensive accoutrements etc. for the upsell. Just like Lexus had to be formed to move upscale from Toyota, for all that's good and bad (think rising prices to pay for the 'luxury') about it.

Almost none of that has anything to do with the Gen V being beaten or beating the ZR1. All of those other cars got clobbered by the ZR1 too, but most owners of the other brands already look down their nose at the Corvette (and many look down at the Viper as well). Case in point, the Nissan GT-R should have sold out and the Porsche 911 turbo sold zero units, based on performance and price, but we all know that's not the case, since they are similar cars. Sales numbers aren't always based on performance numbers or even rational thought.

For better or for worse, the new Viper is chasing an upper end market. I'm hoping that Ralph doesn't forget about us 'little guys', who care about maximum performance and aren't rolling in dough. I'm not certain this can be done because in order for the Viper to have snob appeal, almost by definition the average joe has to be left behind. In other words, we're the only guys who care about the Gen V being beaten by the ZR1, and we don't matter as much as we used to...

Very well thought out and very on point imo. I literally just got back from the Northeast auto show. I saw a GT-R with a sign in the front windshield that read "0-60 in 2.7 seconds." I thought to myself how I could care less that it could (and has) beat my Lamborghini in the past. My Bentley has a 6.0 twin turbo 12 cylinder engine but it weighs over 5000 lbs and therefore will "lose" to a light weight Lotus with a nimble smaller engine and good suspension. Styling, sound, performance and being exotic matters to a guy like me. What's an exotic car versus a sports car? My answer is something that has less to do with pricetage or place of manufacture and more to do with something that is special. Usually something is special is it has low production numbers and is built by hand. Therefore, I consider the Viper to be an exotic vehicle. I do know that the ZR1 ia faster and dont care. I just saw a C6 version at the auto show with a window sticker thats tens of thousands less than the gen V I recently ordered. I agree with you in that exclusivity is highly valued for those in the market. I think guys like me never bought one before becuase of the old interior/comfort level and yes, because it was a Dodge. I think naming the car Street and Racing Technology maker even though that itself is owned by chrysler/dodge is speaking to that and I believe having SRT dealers in particular speaks to that. I'm no brand snob. I can appreciate a $40k Espirit for what it is and then turn around and value the 7 figure Veyron for what it is. I owned a C6 in the past and didnt like how I saw them out in the wild constantly. Exclusivity is very important and although I know people building avendators, mclarens, 458's to spec right now for next season, I know no others in my area building the new GTS besides myself...something I love.

I get teased by my Ferrari & Lambo friends that I ordered a Viper and I dont care. I love that no one will have what I have, I love that I have near MP4-12C speed and at 30% of the cost. And when they see it and hear it next season at the rallies I believe they will change their minds. I think the new GTS is one of the most exciting new supercars out there! And i think the company is cognizant of the other part of the market: you ********* guys that have backed the product some for two decades now. I think they made 2 versions for that reason. The SRT for the ********* guy with a price point in the 5 figures and a GTS for the new market guys like me with a desire for a touch of refinement to their venom experience and with a 6 figure price tag for that. So its unfortunate they didnt please everyone because based upon this they sure tried. The ACR version of the gen V is not something that will be for me but I know it will be for lots of you guys on here so hopefully that does it for ya. I saw a youtube video of one on the track and I suspect that you will not be disappointed!!

So I just saw the ZR1 at the auto show, and yeah I took pics of it....but I really wish that I had been taking pics of the new snake instead!! Cheers.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Yes MUSCLE MUSTANG and FAST FORD actually got an 11.2 at 128plus in my STOCK GEN 4 vert run at ETOWN on a hot summer day

OH hey ITS that GUY with THE broken KEYBOARD again.

 

[commandomatt]

Very well thought out and very on point imo. I literally just got back from the Northeast auto show. I saw a GT-R with a sign in the front windshield that read "0-60 in 2.7 seconds." I thought to myself how I could care less that it could (and has) beat my Lamborghini in the past. My Bentley has a 6.0 twin turbo 12 cylinder engine but it weighs over 5000 lbs and therefore will "lose" to a light weight Lotus with a nimble smaller engine and good suspension. Styling, sound, performance and being exotic matters to a guy like me. What's an exotic car versus a sports car? My answer is something that has less to do with pricetage or place of manufacture and more to do with something that is special. Usually something is special is it has low production numbers and is built by hand. Therefore, I consider the Viper to be an exotic vehicle. I do know that the ZR1 ia faster and dont care. I just saw a C6 version at the auto show with a window sticker thats tens of thousands less than the gen V I recently ordered. I agree with you in that exclusivity is highly valued for those in the market. I think guys like me never bought one before becuase of the old interior/comfort level and yes, because it was a Dodge. I think naming the car Street and Racing Technology maker even though that itself is owned by chrysler/dodge is speaking to that and I believe having SRT dealers in particular speaks to that. I'm no brand snob. I can appreciate a $40k Espirit for what it is and then turn around and value the 7 figure Veyron for what it is. I owned a C6 in the past and didnt like how I saw them out in the wild constantly. Exclusivity is very important and although I know people building avendators, mclarens, 458's to spec right now for next season, I know no others in my area building the new GTS besides myself...something I love.

I get teased by my Ferrari & Lambo friends that I ordered a Viper and I dont care. I love that no one will have what I have, I love that I have near MP4-12C speed and at 30% of the cost. And when they see it and hear it next season at the rallies I believe they will change their minds. I think the new GTS is one of the most exciting new supercars out there! And i think the company is cognizant of the other part of the market: you ********* guys that have backed the product some for two decades now. I think they made 2 versions for that reason. The SRT for the ********* guy with a price point in the 5 figures and a GTS for the new market guys like me with a desire for a touch of refinement to their venom experience and with a 6 figure price tag for that. So its unfortunate they didnt please everyone because based upon this they sure tried. The ACR version of the gen V is not something that will be for me but I know it will be for lots of you guys on here so hopefully that does it for ya. I saw a youtube video of one on the track and I suspect that you will not be disappointed!!

So I just saw the ZR1 at the auto show, and yeah I took pics of it....but I really wish that I had been taking pics of the new snake instead!! Cheers.

There is so much I want to respond to in this post but I don't know where to start. 'If you don't have anything nice to say....don't say anything at all ...' comes to mind so I will just be quiet.

Matt

 

[chorps]

I think SRT needs to get the word out that Vipers are all mostly hand-built and painted by hand. It would do them a world of good for the higher end market to perceive this as a premium product rather than just a big engine stuffed into a two door car.

For this premium perception to be made, *every* launch GTS should have included airfare (US only) and a tour of Conner for pick up of their vehicles, free. Special production videos for prospective owners should be made so they have a virtual tour and idea of how unique and limited a Viper really is.

The AMGs have name plaques on their motors not just to instill pride into the people who have installed the engines, but to give the owners the idea that it's not just a 'labourer' who works on their car, but a craftsman who has put their entire life into being the best at what they do... it might smack of smarmy marketschlock but really, interviewing some of the people who actually work at Conner would not be a bad thing to have on the SRT website (not sure how the long layoff affects things though).

If Fiat/Chrysler were really aggressive, they'd start putting together tour packages that showed off (wine & cheese gatherings etc.) of SRT, Maserati and Ferrari design offices collectively, as well as factory tours etc. Ferrari may not need the boost, but having them rub shoulders with their lesser siblings will really help them. Lest you think Ferrari is above this, the Fiat 500 has a Ferrari edition.

Talking about sharing seat suppliers with Ferrari just isn't enough...and bashing the previous gen owners isn't a good idea either...

Ralph, you can send me my cheque through the VCA for these marketing ideas...better yet, spend some of that money on making the Gen V spank the ZR1.

 

[madninjaskillz]

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing. Whoever is doing their PR and Marketing needs to be fired and hire us instead. lol It might be a 'smarmy marketing gimmick' etc., but it adds to the experience that Ralph and SRT are trying to sell (and the other high end companies already do). You can't just say that you are trying to sell to more refined buyers without doing anything to fulfill that statement.

 

[PDCjonny]

There is so much I want to respond to in this post but I don't know where to start. 'If you don't have anything nice to say....don't say anything at all ...' comes to mind so I will just be quiet.

Matt

That is the new target demographic Matt.
His post says it all.

 

[BlackSnake99]

That is the new target demographic Matt.
His post says it all.

Better educated, smarter, richer and more sophisticated.

 

[Policy Limits]

the portion about Dodge wasn't an attack on the brand as a manufacturer. it was to agree with chorps about his suspicion that new breeders had concerns about bringing a six figure supercar into a dealership with "hotdogs" and "balloons plasterd" together with screaming kids running around." I think its a legitimate concern. like I said I'm not a brand snob. I've owned corvette and Hummer for example. There's several threads on here even from prior generation owners wherein they expressed frustration about bringing their machine to a Dodge Chrysler dealership for service and feeling less than confident in the service and result. I think the concern is mitigated by forcing a dealer to cough up $25k to get SRT status and training. It gives the consumer a little more confidence than he would have without that should a warranty service issue.

I know that my local Lamborghini dealer sent the staff to Lambo school so that concern never even surfaces with most other exotic brands. Not trying to offend anyone; in fact I highlighted the post I responded to because I agree with it. I'm also not stating facts; only opinions. I never said I was richer smarter or better educated and its unfortunate that many took the CEO to state or imply that as an insult to past generation owners. I've also heard him talk about "viper nation" with pride. And name another Auto CEO whom drives 5000 cross country to experience the product and gather with enthusiasts and owners. I think its a special kind of CEO that other supercar brands dont have and it blends well with the special kind of supercar he is promoting.

 

[speedracervr4]

I hate to brake it to ya, but the my same crappy local Dodge dealer is now an SRT dealer....

 

[chorps]

I hate to brake it to ya, but the my same crappy local Dodge dealer is now an SRT dealer....

I was highly disappointed that the reorganization/bankruptcy took out a lot of dealers that were considered to be great dealers by the community here, yet dealers with a much poorer reputation were allowed to stay open.

It'd be my wish that the VCA community would be able to help shortlist a group of select SRT only premier dealerships, regardless of whether they currently have dodge/chrysler dealer status.

 

[ViperSmith]

the portion about Dodge wasn't an attack on the brand as a manufacturer. it was to agree with chorps about his suspicion that new breeders had concerns about bringing a six figure supercar into a dealership with "hotdogs" and "balloons plasterd" together with screaming kids running around." I think its a legitimate concern. like I said I'm not a brand snob. I've owned corvette and Hummer for example. There's several threads on here even from prior generation owners wherein they expressed frustration about bringing their machine to a Dodge Chrysler dealership for service and feeling less than confident in the service and result. I think the concern is mitigated by forcing a dealer to cough up $25k to get SRT status and training. It gives the consumer a little more confidence than he would have without that should a warranty service issue.

I know that my local Lamborghini dealer sent the staff to Lambo school so that concern never even surfaces with most other exotic brands. Not trying to offend anyone; in fact I highlighted the post I responded to because I agree with it. I'm also not stating facts; only opinions. I never said I was richer smarter or better educated and its unfortunate that many took the CEO to state or imply that as an insult to past generation owners. I've also heard him talk about "viper nation" with pride. And name another Auto CEO whom drives 5000 cross country to experience the product and gather with enthusiasts and owners. I think its a special kind of CEO that other supercar brands dont have and it blends well with the special kind of supercar he is promoting.

People look for anything to be offended over and read way into what was said. But still, people seem to think the Gen V is outrageously priced, but the Gen I in 2013 money new is around $95,000 - virtually the same as the base SRT. Much like Porsche, you can buy a $52,000 cayman base or you can add $50,000 in options - it is whatever you want it to be.

Then there is a perception issue, go search Ferrari Chat, you can't find any threads on "dealership crashed" - I can't seem to find any.

Go search this forum for "dealership crashed" and you'll find stories replete with technicians wrapping vipers around telephone poles. Or go check wrecked exotics and you'll see the same.

Honestly, it is probably the biggest concern I have.

 

[Policy Limits]

I think SRT needs to get the word out that Vipers are all mostly hand-built and painted by hand. It would do them a world of good for the higher end market to perceive this as a premium product rather than just a big engine stuffed into a two door car.

For this premium perception to be made, *every* launch GTS should have included airfare (US only) and a tour of Conner for pick up of their vehicles, free. Special production videos for prospective owners should be made so they have a virtual tour and idea of how unique and limited a Viper really is.

The AMGs have name plaques on their motors not just to instill pride into the people who have installed the engines, but to give the owners the idea that it's not just a 'labourer' who works on their car, but a craftsman who has put their entire life into being the best at what they do... it might smack of smarmy marketschlock but really, interviewing some of the people who actually work at Conner would not be a bad thing to have on the SRT website (not sure how the long layoff affects things though).

If Fiat/Chrysler were really aggressive, they'd start putting together tour packages that showed off (wine & cheese gatherings etc.) of SRT, Maserati and Ferrari design offices collectively, as well as factory tours etc. Ferrari may not need the boost, but having them rub shoulders with their lesser siblings will really help them. Lest you think Ferrari is above this, the Fiat 500 has a Ferrari edition.

Talking about sharing seat suppliers with Ferrari just isn't enough...and bashing the previous gen owners isn't a good idea either...


Ralph, you can send me my cheque through the VCA for these marketing ideas...better yet, spend some of that money on making the Gen V spank the ZR1.

Again, I think you're REALLY on to something here....when is SRT putting u on payroll again?

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

Again, I think you're REALLY on to something here....when is SRT putting u on payroll again?

All Viper marketing money is going into the racing program. That's per Ralph and per the head of Viper marketing. Ads are not being bought in any communications media.

 

[strykergts]

On a side note, anyone else notice that MT observed fuel economy for the srt was a full mpg better than the zr1? Seems odd a 2L larger displacement v10 would save more fuel than a supercharged v8

 

[Caddylac10]

Hey guys. It's my first post and I wanted to jump on this thread because I love Vettes and Vipers, but I think the one guy hit the nail on the head...

The Viper is an amazing car but there has to be some disappointment when their target was standing in front of them for 4 years. It's very clear that the ZR1 was their target; their specs are virtually identical. SRT had several years to build and create a ZR1 ****** and I feel that they should have been able to go into any test and comfortably know which car was better. These kinds of debates wouldn't even exist if SRT made a clear winner.

Now, some of the Viper's issues can easily be fixed over night, like better tires and brakes or even a power bump, but why they didn't do that right out the gate baffles me. However, even with some simple tweaks, you also have to wonder why SRT bench marked the soon to be replaced C6. What is SRT going to do when the C7 Z06 comes out, let alone the C7 ZR1? This is even more reason why SRT should have clearly overshot the C6 ZR1. They should have said, where will the C7 Z06 and C7 ZR1 be in a few years, not where is the Corvette now.

The ACR is not a direct competitor to ZR1 either. It's just that the ZR1 is so capable that it gets compared to a wide variety of supercars, including ones like the ACR that are street legal race cars. Again, what would SRT do if GM came out with an "ACR ZR1" with a comparable set up and weight? The GTS is the ZR1's competitor and SRT needs to find a way to beat it, not with the ACR.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Hey guys. It's my first post and I wanted to jump on this thread because I love Vettes and Vipers, but I think the one guy hit the nail on the head...

The Viper is an amazing car but there has to be some disappointment when their target was standing in front of them for 4 years. It's very clear that the ZR1 was their target; their specs are virtually identical. SRT had several years to build and create a ZR1 ****** and I feel that they should have been able to go into any test and comfortably know which car was better. These kinds of debates wouldn't even exist if SRT made a clear winner.

Now, some of the Viper's issues can easily be fixed over night, like better tires and brakes or even a power bump, but why they didn't do that right out the gate baffles me. However, even with some simple tweaks, you also have to wonder why SRT bench marked the soon to be replaced C6. What is SRT going to do when the C7 Z06 comes out, let alone the C7 ZR1? This is even more reason why SRT should have clearly overshot the C6 ZR1. They should have said, where will the C7 Z06 and C7 ZR1 be in a few years, not where is the Corvette now.

The ACR is not a direct competitor to ZR1 either. It's just that the ZR1 is so capable that it gets compared to a wide variety of supercars, including ones like the ACR that are street legal race cars. Again, what would SRT do if GM came out with an "ACR ZR1" with a comparable set up and weight? The GTS is the ZR1's competitor and SRT needs to find a way to beat it, not with the ACR.

Good post imo and this is exactly what Ive been saying from day 1 of the mag test fiasco. It really makes no sense there approach to this Gen V car. You benchmark the ZR1 for 2 whole years and still cant beat it lol. It's like a three stooges episode.

 

[ViperGTS]

Read the book about the Gen-5 and you will know that there were no 4 years to develop the car!

At best 1 year for the engine, e.g.

PUT non-run-craps on the car and it will move (Le Mans 24h = Michelin tyres!)...

 

[ViperGTS]

Oh, and I hope that I can watch the humiliation of the Vette LIVE this June - fingers crossed, since it will be the first year for a totally new car

 

[1BADGTS]

OH hey ITS that GUY with THE broken KEYBOARD again.

Broken keyboard or not the car ran 11.2 .MAYBE you can list list the accomplishments of what YOUR Vipers have run over the 20 years of being on this forum

 

[TrackAire]

Hey guys. It's my first post and I wanted to jump on this thread because I love Vettes and Vipers, but I think the one guy hit the nail on the head...

The Viper is an amazing car but there has to be some disappointment when their target was standing in front of them for 4 years. It's very clear that the ZR1 was their target; their specs are virtually identical. SRT had several years to build and create a ZR1 ****** and I feel that they should have been able to go into any test and comfortably know which car was better. These kinds of debates wouldn't even exist if SRT made a clear winner.

Now, some of the Viper's issues can easily be fixed over night, like better tires and brakes or even a power bump, but why they didn't do that right out the gate baffles me. However, even with some simple tweaks, you also have to wonder why SRT bench marked the soon to be replaced C6. What is SRT going to do when the C7 Z06 comes out, let alone the C7 ZR1? This is even more reason why SRT should have clearly overshot the C6 ZR1. They should have said, where will the C7 Z06 and C7 ZR1 be in a few years, not where is the Corvette now.

The ACR is not a direct competitor to ZR1 either. It's just that the ZR1 is so capable that it gets compared to a wide variety of supercars, including ones like the ACR that are street legal race cars. Again, what would SRT do if GM came out with an "ACR ZR1" with a comparable set up and weight? The GTS is the ZR1's competitor and SRT needs to find a way to beat it, not with the ACR.

Unfortunately, nothing can be changed overnight, even something as simple as tires.

Think of it this way, the tire issue is like a family arranged marriage that you had no choice in. You were made to marry an interesting Italian girl and 3 months into the marriage you find out she's just not "performing" like what you're use to. At this point you realize you should have stayed faithful to and married your French girlfriend you were with for the last 10 years or so. You can divorce your new Italian bride, but that will probably cause the family to have a terrible fight and is always an expensive situation.

Now, if your Italian bride has a hot younger sister that "performs" like the old French girlfriend and she doesn't mind sharing you with her,.....then maybe the arrangement can work out

The car business really is no different than life.

Welcome to the forum,

George