My car won't start.....

[RTTTTed]

I agree with Greg. Does the alarm work? There is a Schraider valve on the intake manifold that when the cap is released has what looks like a tire valve stem. Protect your eyes and see if there's fuel pressure when you depress the stem gas should spray out indicating fuel pressure.

Check all fuses and switch out the ASD/Auto Shut Down Relay in the PCM/Power Control Module. Change headlight and ASD relays to check. Fuel pump fuse and relay are in the trunk on driver's side.

Not sure which fuses could be the problems with your (97?) but my 01 had a blown "guages" fuse and the engine wouldn't start.

 

[costanZo]

So my car is still not working......

I tried checking the fuel pump fuse. I went in the trunk on the drivers side and pulled three different fuses I believe. One had an orange cover and one had a silver cover so I couldn't tell if they were blown or not, but then again I'm not sure if those were actual fuses. There was also a clear one I could see that was not blown.

I spoke with Steve(Steve-Indy) on the phone who was extremely helpful and told me several things to try, but still no luck.....

I really think I am going to need someone who has or can get a hold of a Drb3 unit with programs for chrysler or enough monitors to diagnose a no start situation.

I really don't want to have my car towed on a flatbed, that is one thing I AM DREADING... however, if it's a must can anyone explain to me what I should tell AAA before they come so they are prepared to tow a Viper. If anyone is local to me though and can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it. I live in Wilmington, MA right off 93 which is 15minutes from Boston.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[GTSnake]

Tell AAA when you call them that it's a Viper and bring long boards. If the driver is experienced with low clearance cars then you're set. If he's not, you have to have him pull the car up the ramp a few inches, raise the bed up so the attack angle is less and keep pulling. Getting it down is just the same thing in reverse. It's better if you can find a flat section of your driveway or road. I've been towed more than I care to remember....... I even keep a bunch of long boards in my garage.

 

[RTTTTed]

Does that mean that you have no fuel pump noise or pressure at the intake?

The way I test fuses is either with a reliable ohmmeter or by simply replacing them. Replacing is the only sure way to test the fuses because evey 1 in a thousand will burn out without it being obvious.

I couldn't get the wife's pwr seat to move in her pickup after I replaced the faulty button. Checked the fuses - looked good - switched that 40 for the one below it and !!!! that was the problem. But it did look good. Maybe a magnifying glass?

So you're sure the problem is the fuel and that would mean that you're getting spark? remove #1 sparkplug and insert a philips screwdriver into the sparkplug socket. HOLDING THE PLASTIC HANDLE and making sure that the metal screwdriver is in contact with the sparkplug connector place the metal shaft of the screwdriver close (1/8") to a ground and watch for spark while turning the engine over. Spark or no spark? If you have no fuel and no spark try the ASD relay I refered to earlier.

Ted

 

[costanZo]

Ted, I have pressure at the intake, it squirted out... however, there is no fuel pump noise.

Does that mean that you have no fuel pump noise or pressure at the intake?

The way I test fuses is either with a reliable ohmmeter or by simply replacing them. Replacing is the only sure way to test the fuses because evey 1 in a thousand will burn out without it being obvious.

I couldn't get the wife's pwr seat to move in her pickup after I replaced the faulty button. Checked the fuses - looked good - switched that 40 for the one below it and !!!! that was the problem. But it did look good. Maybe a magnifying glass?

So you're sure the problem is the fuel and that would mean that you're getting spark? remove #1 sparkplug and insert a philips screwdriver into the sparkplug socket. HOLDING THE PLASTIC HANDLE and making sure that the metal screwdriver is in contact with the sparkplug connector place the metal shaft of the screwdriver close (1/8") to a ground and watch for spark while turning the engine over. Spark or no spark? If you have no fuel and no spark try the ASD relay I refered to earlier.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

Then drain the fuel galleries of pressure (use a rag)and after clicking the key again you have fuel pressure again? If so then ...

That would eliminate the ASD as well as the fuel pump fuse and relay. It would seem to show the fuel system is working. Check the spark?

If there's a mechanic shop near your car perhaps the guy will drive to your car and spend 3 minutes checking the OBD3 for codes? Should be only a few bucks? Too bad it's Sat.

Ted

 

[Asp Man]

/\ What Ted said. /\
Can you set and unset the alarm?
The engine cranks, but will not run, right?
Try cycling the key (without cranking the engine) to bring codes to the CEL, on, off, on, off, then leave in "on" position. The check engine light will flash the codes (if any) have a pen and paper handy to write down the sequence of flashes. The thing is, if it's not running you're not going to get acurate info from the computer (OBD reader or not) and it may lead you in a direction you don't need to go to fix the problem. My prediction: you'll get a 12 and a 55, for batt discon and end of codes respectively.
This has been my "ace up my sleve" for years...I'm now compeled to share it with the Viper community.

http://www.misterfixit.com/moparcod.htm

 

[plumcrazy]

Tell AAA when you call them that it's a Viper and bring long boards. If the driver is experienced with low clearance cars then you're set. If he's not, you have to have him pull the car up the ramp a few inches, raise the bed up so the attack angle is less and keep pulling. Getting it down is just the same thing in reverse. It's better if you can find a flat section of your driveway or road. I've been towed more than I care to remember....... I even keep a bunch of long boards in my garage.

unfortunately my viper has been on a few AAA flatbeds. if you really stress to them how low the car is and to make sure the driver brings plenty of scrap wood, you will be fine. ive never had a problem with any of the AAA drivers.

at worse, dont be afraid to send the guy away and request another. i have stressed this to the AAA operators as well.

 

[Asp Man]

We're waiting...any update?

 

[RTTTTed]

I can give you a bit of an update. Yesterday I phoned him at the garage and talked him through the fuel and a sparkplug test - nada!

Spoke about the alarm system since there's been a few failures here on the forums recently and YOU, asp man know of another 97 that failed ... so ... Hi led goes on with the key 'on' and his alarm although it sets and shuts down, no alarm when the hatch and hood are opened.

Now he knows that his alarm system doesn't work so that's probably the problem. I suggested the same 'fix' that you used last year and mentioned that JonB sells 97 Alarm modules and has knowledge on those as well.

I also suggested speaking with Indy Steve because he seems to be our "forum alarm expert".

That was yesterday.

Ted

 

[costanZo]

Thanks Ted for all your help lately.

At the moment, still no real progress. Over the weekend besides Ted I have also spoken with Steve(Steve-Indy) and Mark(Phun70).

I spoke with Steve on Friday and he had me try several things and mainly from the description I gave him and the experiences he has had with Vipers he told me it was an alarm issue that was stopping the car from firing up. I've also done several testing with Mark over the weekend with a test light and fuses and it seems where we are at the moment with that has lead to the issue being the computer/alarm as well. Mark said he was probably going to give Tator a call today to let him know our progress so hopefully when I speak with him later I will know a little more.

I have called both Clark's Dodge which is within 10minutes from my house and they won't send a guy out to me to have him use the Drb3 unit on my car, they only do work at the shop so I'd have to have my car towed the guy said. Herb Chambers Dodge told me last week that they were booked so if I towed it they wouldn't have been able to look at it last week so I'd prob have to try this week there to see if they would be available if it just so happens i have to have it towed.

Having it towed is really something I DO NOT want to do.... but if I had to have it towed, I'd like to have it done as soon as possible so I can get all of this resolved. However, at the moment I'm still trying things with Mark and will be calling Steve again as well. I'm also considering talking to Chuck to see if I could possibly have my car towed down to him in NY, but I'm sure he is already booked up for awhile now since I remember last year at this time he was extremely busy. My father also found a local exotic car mechanic, so we are giving them a call to see if they have worked on vipers before as well.

So far, that is the only updates I have.. but once again I appreciate all the help I've been getting from everyone and really hope I can get things resolved this week.

-Anthony

 

[Martin2000GTS]

Ant,

couple things

I sat in your car and am positive that your fuel pump is not turning on, as when we turn the key we hear nothing but silence. Your in a very quiet spot in that garage and there is clearly no noise.......

If the the alarm is the issue.....does the alarm keep the fuel pump from activating??

Another question, from reading the posts on this subject, when pressing the valve on the engine (where the gas sprays out) exactly how much is suposed to come out. He did mention watch out for your eyes......well Anthony, when your dad pressed the valve, gas only dripped out a few drips it didnt spray out at all. (I guess I could check this on my car as well) So if infact its suposed to spray out with decent pressure then it looks like there is no gas at that valve.

I have no problem dropping the viper off at tators with my truck for you. If you can lend a trailer from someone, or we could try renting a uhaul trailer....though their trailers ****. Id hate to see you have to bring your car to a Dodge dealer around here as I think they are all scumbags. i would not trust them with anything especially your car if any!

Good luck

 

[costanZo]

Ant,

couple things

I sat in your car and am positive that your fuel pump is not turning on, as when we turn the key we hear nothing but silence. Your in a very quiet spot in that garage and there is clearly no noise.......

If the the alarm is the issue.....does the alarm keep the fuel pump from activating??

Another question, from reading the posts on this subject, when pressing the valve on the engine (where the gas sprays out) exactly how much is suposed to come out. He did mention watch out for your eyes......well Anthony, when your dad pressed the valve, gas only dripped out a few drips it didnt spray out at all. (I guess I could check this on my car as well) So if infact its suposed to spray out with decent pressure then it looks like there is no gas at that valve.

I have no problem dropping the viper off at tators with my truck for you. If you can lend a trailer from someone, or we could try renting a uhaul trailer....though their trailers ****. Id hate to see you have to bring your car to a Dodge dealer around here as I think they are all scumbags. i would not trust them with anything especially your car if any!

Good luck

Martin,

After more testing yesterday it's pretty clear it's an alarm/PCM issue. It has to be, considering when you lock and alarm the car and open either the hood or the rear hatch with the key, the alarm doesn't go off....So I would imagine the alarm is keeping the fuel pump from working.

When we pressed the valve the first time before you got there, gas did squirt out a decent amount, it did originally too when we were on the phone with Tator last week and he told us to do that. However, after we did that a couple times, it seemed to only drip out a little afterwards. Kinda like overtime it would build up however much was in there. So if you waited awhile and pressed the valve, it would squirt out, but after a couple times it wouldn't squirt out that much at all unless you waited awhile again before you did it.

That kid Simon I was telling you about, the kid who is dating that girl where I live who owns a red RT/10 Viper stopped by while I was out in the garage yesterday saying I should be able to hear the fuel pump because it's really loud on his.(I told him to join the VCA too by the way, which he said he would). So since the fuse isn't blown and it seems a lot of other things we have tested seem to be fine, it has to be an alarm or computer issue. I'm gonna find out more today.

If worst case scenario and I need to get a trailor, I'll have to figure out the best place to rent one. I'd like to take it to Clark's Dodge which is less then 10minutes away from my place first since they do have the Drb3 unit to scan my car. As much as I want to bring it down to Chuck, I'd hate to drive all that way if the car only needs a quick scan to be fixed. If I brought it to that place first and the scanner didn't change anything, then if you're up for it, I'll definitely tow it down to Tator's with you.

 

[plumcrazy]

would a swapped out PCM help in this case ? maybe a member can send you theirs to try ?

 

[costanZo]

would a swapped out PCM help in this case ? maybe a member can send you theirs to try ?

I think that possibly could help. I mean, know it couldn't hurt to try. Although, we took off the cover to the PCM yesterday and unplugged the gray, white and black plugs. In the black plug I believe we tested pins 2, 11, 31, and 32 or whatever ones I was told to test, but I'm pretty sure those were the four. Either way, when i used the test light on the pins, each one worked. So I'm not sure if it would be a PCM issue or not.

 

[Asp Man]

I think that possibly could help. I mean, know it couldn't hurt to try. Although, we took off the cover to the PCM yesterday and unplugged the gray, white and black plugs. In the black plug I believe we tested pins 2, 11, 31, and 32 or whatever ones I was told to test, but I'm pretty sure those were the four. Either way, when i used the test light on the pins, each one worked. So I'm not sure if it would be a PCM issue or not.

As I suggested above, swap the EEM out for a known good unit (must use key fobs assigned to that unit), not the PCM. Try that first, it's an easy swap. I wouldn't suspect the PCM until after you've tried this.
If this solves your problem, get a used EEM and fobs from JonB and you're done. Will cost less than towing your car in to the stealership.

 

[costanZo]

As I suggested above, swap the EEM out for a known good unit (must use key fobs assigned to that unit), not the PCM. Try that first, it's an easy swap. I wouldn't suspect the PCM until after you've tried this.
If this solves your problem, get a used EEM and fobs from JonB and you're done. Will cost less than towing your car in to the stealership.

How much is a used EEM? Are you sure I would need new keyfobs? I already have two... Besides I bought one from chuck and had it programmed to my car from Steve Heitz up in NH who I think I bought one from as well. I would imagine it would just need to be reprogrammed right? However, I of course do not know how to do that. The keyfob itself mentions something on the back saying to press and hold both buttons, but I'm pretty sure I tried that before and it didn't work.

 

[Asp Man]

So, you do have another EEM to try? I mention to use the fobs for that unit as if you are borrowing the unit from another car, use the fobs from that car as they are already matched to that EEM.
Once you've got a working EEM in your car, I think you may be able to syncronize your exsisting fobs to that EEM (someone will chime in, confirm/deny?), having said that, you will need the fobs that work with that EEM before you put it in your car as you will need to be able to arm/disarm that EEM.

 

[costanZo]

So, you do have another EEM to try? I mention to use the fobs for that unit as if you are borrowing the unit from another car, use the fobs from that car as they are already matched to that EEM.
Once you've got a working EEM in your car, I think you may be able to syncronize your exsisting fobs to that EEM (someone will chime in, confirm/deny?), having said that, you will need the fobs that work with that EEM before you put it in your car as you will need to be able to arm/disarm that EEM.

I understand what you mean. I don't have another EEM to try though. I just meant since I already have 2 key fobs I shouldn't have to buy anymore, but if I was trying out somebody's EEM on my car it would only make sense to use their key fobs first.

I think regardless I'm going to have to have my car towed somewhere. I was told by Mark(Phun70) today that him and Chuck spoke this morning and that is pretty much my only option right now...

 

[Asp Man]

I understand what you mean. I don't have another EEM to try though. I just meant since I already have 2 key fobs I shouldn't have to buy anymore, but if I was trying out somebody's EEM on my car it would only make sense to use their key fobs first.


I think regardless I'm going to have to have my car towed somewhere. I was told by Mark(Phun70) today that him and Chuck spoke this morning and that is pretty much my only option right now...

Fobs: yes.
Option: Isn't there a member near you with whom you could try the EEM swap?
When I say cheaper than towing, I mean not only the cost of the truck, but the stress of dealing with the perhaps inexperienced dealer and tow truck driver, the time spent on arranging appointments for same, the bill from the dealer for having one of thier monkeys climb all over your car, etc.
Just trying to help a fellow member get back on the road as quickly and easily as possible. I wish you good luck and hope it all turns out for the best!

 

[costanZo]

Fobs: yes.
Option: Isn't there a member near you with whom you could try the EEM swap?
When I say cheaper than towing, I mean not only the cost of the truck, but the stress of dealing with the perhaps inexperienced dealer and tow truck driver, the time spent on arranging appointments for same, the bill from the dealer for having one of thier monkeys climb all over your car, etc.
Just trying to help a fellow member get back on the road as quickly and easily as possible. I wish you good luck and hope it all turns out for the best!

Thank you, I appreciate your help very much. I doubt my friend Martin is going to take out his EEM or anyone local. I would not want to ask anyone either since I'm not sure how hard that is to do or how much time that takes. A few people have mentioned having their cars towed and it wasn't an issue so I'm really hoping it doesn't turn into a nightmare. I'm already frustrated in how long this has been taking to get my car fixed so I'd really just like to do whatever I can to get this resolved. I missed out on really nice driving weather last weekend and I heard this weekend is going to be even better... So I'd like to get my car up and running this week or by Saturday if it's possible

 

[RTTTTed]

I'd guess a tow truck would be worth about $500 1 way?

Module might be a $1000 item as it should come with fobs. If you're going to Chuck's and he doesn't have a module on the shelf it could take a week or two to get one in. Maybe the local guy would rent you his module for an hour for a couple hundred and save you money?

 

[costanZo]

I'd guess a tow truck would be worth about $500 1 way?

Module might be a $1000 item as it should come with fobs. If you're going to Chuck's and he doesn't have a module on the shelf it could take a week or two to get one in. Maybe the local guy would rent you his module for an hour for a couple hundred and save you money?

Ted,

Wouldn't a tow through AAA(I'm a member) be free? $500 seems pretty steep....

If I have to bring it to a Dodge Dealer, I am going to call first to ask how much it would cost for them to use the Drb3 unit to scan my car. Actually, does anyone already know how much or have an estimate on how much a service charge like that would cost?

I agree with you on the availability of that module. I would definitely check first with chuck beforehand to make sure he had one or could get me one before I took the trip down if I decided to go that route.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Hi, Anthony. I think a short haul on AAA might be free (can't remember for sure, maybe 25-50 miles) ...but expect to pay if it is longer than your own "limit".

You know, we still have one "secret trick" left. Could you ask Martin2000GTS to call me?

 

[RTTTTed]

/\ What Ted said. /\
Can you set and unset the alarm?
The engine cranks, but will not run, right?
Try cycling the key (without cranking the engine) to bring codes to the CEL, on, off, on, off, then leave in "on" position. The check engine light will flash the codes (if any) have a pen and paper handy to write down the sequence of flashes. The thing is, if it's not running you're not going to get acurate info from the computer (OBD reader or not) and it may lead you in a direction you don't need to go to fix the problem. My prediction: you'll get a 12 and a 55, for batt discon and end of codes respectively.
This has been my "ace up my sleve" for years...I'm now compeled to share it with the Viper community.

http://www.misterfixit.com/moparcod.htm

Above is the FREE way to 'read' the codes. I asked for a code reading at a Dodge Dealer many years ago and it was $250 +. In all fairness their computer does a ton of stuff and cost mega bucks whereas I've seen ODB reads for $40. But Asp man's post is the FREE and do it anywhere OBD reader.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

AAA depends on which plan you paid for. The basic plan only goes to the nearest service station or 50(?) miles MAX.

Ted

 

[costanZo]

Hi, Anthony. I think a short haul on AAA might be free (can't remember for sure, maybe 25-50 miles) ...but expect to pay if it is longer than your own "limit".

You know, we still have one "secret trick" left. Could you ask Martin2000GTS to call me?

haha yea, my father and I are still considering doing the "secret trick" but were having a hard time getting to it. I just told Martin to give you a ring, however, he works in NY all week and won't be back till thursday/friday. I'd really like to try and get this resolved before then or at least by the weekend if it were possible, so I'm not sure what to do.

 

[costanZo]

Above is the FREE way to 'read' the codes. I asked for a code reading at a Dodge Dealer many years ago and it was $250 +. In all fairness their computer does a ton of stuff and cost mega bucks whereas I've seen ODB reads for $40. But Asp man's post is the FREE and do it anywhere OBD reader.

Ted

Ted,

I tried doing this with Mark(Phun70) on the phone and it didn't work. I wasn't getting a check engine light blinking at all after cycling the key on, off, on, off, and then on...

 

[RTTTTed]

Another symptom. I went outside and checked my 01 GTS and it works fine.

The onoffonoffon code retrieval was started way back in the early 80s and I used it on my 84 and up Daytonas when I used to build those (400bhp 2.2 Turbo).

Ted

 

[costanZo]

Another symptom. I went outside and checked my 01 GTS and it works fine.

The onoffonoffon code retrieval was started way back in the early 80s and I used it on my 84 and up Daytonas when I used to build those (400bhp 2.2 Turbo).

Ted

Yea, I was really hoping that could be an easy fix, but apparently like everything else lol, that didnt seem to work either.......