2001 Sapphire Blue
Enthusiast
Spell check needed here also!!
My dreams of owning a Viper... Crushed today with a 20 min test-drive!
- Thread starter Cobra4B
- Start date
2001 Sapphire Blue
Enthusiast
Another spell check please!
Definitely a fact of "life on the internet" that if I were to go to the Vette forum to tell them why I like my Supra better they would gang up on me. Same thing would happen on the Supra forums. Don't take this to mean I am sticking up for this guy
I see a Z06 as a lateral move to a Supra as well. I myself rather have a Supra than a Vette, especially the Supras I have owned. The Viper is on a short list of cars I would replace the Supra with. I wouldn't mind having a Vette AND the Supra but couldn't replace the Supra with one. Then again when I bought my last Supra (#9 for me, #8 MKIV) I was going back and forth between getting a Viper GTS or a Supra and ended up with another Supra. I just need to make more $$$$ so I can afford both
By the way my current Supra is a 1997 T66 equipped (already have a bigger turbo waiting for it in my garage that makes quite a bit less power than the one in the sig (643 RWHP with the T66). I have been too lazy to change the sig!
I see a Z06 as a lateral move to a Supra as well. I myself rather have a Supra than a Vette, especially the Supras I have owned. The Viper is on a short list of cars I would replace the Supra with. I wouldn't mind having a Vette AND the Supra but couldn't replace the Supra with one. Then again when I bought my last Supra (#9 for me, #8 MKIV) I was going back and forth between getting a Viper GTS or a Supra and ended up with another Supra. I just need to make more $$$$ so I can afford both
By the way my current Supra is a 1997 T66 equipped (already have a bigger turbo waiting for it in my garage
that makes quite a bit less power than the one in the sig (643 RWHP with the T66). I have been too lazy to change the sig!As I said, I like Vipers. I like the GTS styling wise more than the SRT-10, but I would have to say that the SRT-10 is a much more refined car. I've seen lots of high HP Supras, as the TX2K event is here in Houston. I've had the opportunity to hang out with the Supras guys, and there are lots of cool Supra/Viper/Cobra owners out there.
Comparing cars is always a matter of perspective. Its like the Ferrari owners look down on the Porsche owners, who look down on the Viper owners, who look down on the Vette owners, who look down on the Cobra owners.
Someone like SW who has had just about every car under the sun might be a good authority on the postive and negative aspects of the cars that have been in his stable. Since he has both Vipers, Vettes, Supras, and Ferraris I guess he'd could point out what he likes and dislikes.
My only info comapring and contrasting them comes really from John, as I haven't had a chance to drive a Viper, I've only been a passenger in John's car. My understanding from John, (and I guess many of you would agree with it) is that the Viper can be a fantastic car once you have a handle on how to drive it. On the other hand, the Corvette as you say is idiot proof, and almost anyone can drive it fast right out of the box. The Viper's handling is from my understanding good, but the brakes have their issues. My understanding from John is that Ron has pretty much tried every braking option he can on the car, and has never gotten them where he wants them. again, it doesn't make them bad, its just a charateristic of the car. Once you're used to it, its no big deal.
As for the Supras they make crazy power from a roll. One of the things I have seen most Supra owners have issues with is getting the cars to run from a dead stop.
I think that depending on how a thread is started will ultimately determine how it is taken by the populace of a forum. I have made posts on this forum and on Supraforum without taking a lot of heat when discussing Z06s. Again, I don't go in starting a thread in the middle of a forum telling the guys how much their car *****, that just isn't me. But, if someone wants to discuss cars, hey, I as a Z06 owner don't mind talking shop a little bit...
Lee, good luck on your 73. Don't let that Nasty bowtie affliction hold you back though...
Comparing cars is always a matter of perspective. Its like the Ferrari owners look down on the Porsche owners, who look down on the Viper owners, who look down on the Vette owners, who look down on the Cobra owners.
Someone like SW who has had just about every car under the sun might be a good authority on the postive and negative aspects of the cars that have been in his stable. Since he has both Vipers, Vettes, Supras, and Ferraris I guess he'd could point out what he likes and dislikes.
My only info comapring and contrasting them comes really from John, as I haven't had a chance to drive a Viper, I've only been a passenger in John's car. My understanding from John, (and I guess many of you would agree with it) is that the Viper can be a fantastic car once you have a handle on how to drive it. On the other hand, the Corvette as you say is idiot proof, and almost anyone can drive it fast right out of the box. The Viper's handling is from my understanding good, but the brakes have their issues. My understanding from John is that Ron has pretty much tried every braking option he can on the car, and has never gotten them where he wants them. again, it doesn't make them bad, its just a charateristic of the car. Once you're used to it, its no big deal.
As for the Supras they make crazy power from a roll. One of the things I have seen most Supra owners have issues with is getting the cars to run from a dead stop.
I think that depending on how a thread is started will ultimately determine how it is taken by the populace of a forum. I have made posts on this forum and on Supraforum without taking a lot of heat when discussing Z06s. Again, I don't go in starting a thread in the middle of a forum telling the guys how much their car *****, that just isn't me. But, if someone wants to discuss cars, hey, I as a Z06 owner don't mind talking shop a little bit...
Lee, good luck on your 73. Don't let that Nasty bowtie affliction hold you back though...
joe117
Enthusiast
jrod says,
"The C5 will top out w/ ease and is solid as a rock. It isn't geared for ultimate high speed w/ 3.42 gears and maxing in 5th gear."
How would you gear it to make it "geared for ultimate high speed"?
Did I miss your answer?
"The C5 will top out w/ ease and is solid as a rock. It isn't geared for ultimate high speed w/ 3.42 gears and maxing in 5th gear."
How would you gear it to make it "geared for ultimate high speed"?
Did I miss your answer?
joe117
Enthusiast
By the way jrod,
Facts are facts, the Viper is a more exotic, better handling, faster, more powerful car than a ZO6.
You modded your Vette, the same mods done on a Viper would yield the same. The Viper would still be faster.
You decided you wanted to own the car with the smaller engine, the one that everyone else owns. Good for you. Some people thrive on being the underdog.
You say you like your Vette better than a Viper. Who cares? Why you decided to own the lesser of the two is your own business.
The fact remains,
You picked the wrong car. Don't believe me? Ask any car guy, 99% of them would rather have a Viper than a Vette.
And please, I don't even consider Supras and Cobras as being in the same ball park as Vipers and Vettes.
Facts are facts, the Viper is a more exotic, better handling, faster, more powerful car than a ZO6.
You modded your Vette, the same mods done on a Viper would yield the same. The Viper would still be faster.
You decided you wanted to own the car with the smaller engine, the one that everyone else owns. Good for you. Some people thrive on being the underdog.
You say you like your Vette better than a Viper. Who cares? Why you decided to own the lesser of the two is your own business.
The fact remains,
You picked the wrong car. Don't believe me? Ask any car guy, 99% of them would rather have a Viper than a Vette.
And please, I don't even consider Supras and Cobras as being in the same ball park as Vipers and Vettes.
It's definitely in how you "come across". You seem a lot more level headed than the guy that started this thread. For the most part I haven't seen many negative comments towards Supras or Vettes here. Of course there are some such as "It's just a Chevrolet" or "It's just a Toyota" which of course leads to "It's just a Dodge" none of the brands scream "exotic" such as Ferrari, or Lamborghini. But then what makes them better daily drivers and more reliable is the fact that Dodge, Chevrolet and Toyota know how to make cars that are reliable to the masses.
I don't want to include Supras in this thread, I was just MESSING with you guys because I found this thread interesting
BTW launching a Supra IS a PITA compared to a Viper or Vette. The best 60 foot I recall for a street tires (not drag radials) Supra 6speed is in the 1.8's and that is RARE. With slicks it's another story as Ryan Woon's car (quickest 6speed Street Supra) has gone 9.68 without spray with a race weight of around 3700 pounds, best MPH was 145 MPH.
I don't want to include Supras in this thread, I was just MESSING with you guys because I found this thread interesting
BTW launching a Supra IS a PITA compared to a Viper or Vette. The best 60 foot I recall for a street tires (not drag radials) Supra 6speed is in the 1.8's and that is RARE. With slicks it's another story as Ryan Woon's car (quickest 6speed Street Supra) has gone 9.68 without spray with a race weight of around 3700 pounds, best MPH was 145 MPH.
As I said, I like Vipers. I like the GTS styling wise more than the SRT-10, but I would have to say that the SRT-10 is a much more refined car. I've seen lots of high HP Supras, as the TX2K event is here in Houston. I've had the opportunity to hang out with the Supras guys, and there are lots of cool Supra/Viper/Cobra owners out there.
Comparing cars is always a matter of perspective. Its like the Ferrari owners look down on the Porsche owners, who look down on the Viper owners, who look down on the Vette owners, who look down on the Cobra owners.
Someone like SW who has had just about every car under the sun might be a good authority on the postive and negative aspects of the cars that have been in his stable. Since he has both Vipers, Vettes, Supras, and Ferraris I guess he'd could point out what he likes and dislikes.
My only info comapring and contrasting them comes really from John, as I haven't had a chance to drive a Viper, I've only been a passenger in John's car. My understanding from John, (and I guess many of you would agree with it) is that the Viper can be a fantastic car once you have a handle on how to drive it. On the other hand, the Corvette as you say is idiot proof, and almost anyone can drive it fast right out of the box. The Viper's handling is from my understanding good, but the brakes have their issues. My understanding from John is that Ron has pretty much tried every braking option he can on the car, and has never gotten them where he wants them. again, it doesn't make them bad, its just a charateristic of the car. Once you're used to it, its no big deal.
As for the Supras they make crazy power from a roll. One of the things I have seen most Supra owners have issues with is getting the cars to run from a dead stop.
I think that depending on how a thread is started will ultimately determine how it is taken by the populace of a forum. I have made posts on this forum and on Supraforum without taking a lot of heat when discussing Z06s. Again, I don't go in starting a thread in the middle of a forum telling the guys how much their car *****, that just isn't me. But, if someone wants to discuss cars, hey, I as a Z06 owner don't mind talking shop a little bit...
Lee, good luck on your 73. Don't let that Nasty bowtie affliction hold you back though...
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
vegas,novas,supras,vettes,cobras,
WE DO NOT CARE.......... NOW GO AWAY... AND STAY HOME
WE DO NOT CARE.......... NOW GO AWAY... AND STAY HOME
You're forgetting, ANYONE can join this forum! Viper ownership is NOT required! Posting in the appropriate section is a different story.
DARN IT! Sorry guys for perpetuating this thing, it's almost like that "V" thread that I see is back up again :-{
DARN IT! Sorry guys for perpetuating this thing, it's almost like that "V" thread that I see is back up again :-{
Hey Joe, like everyone else, you are of couse entitled to your opinion. I choose to disagree with you on some of the point you made. If you feel that they they are accurate, thats fine and all, but quite simply I, don't agree with you. But I don't want this thread to take any sort of a nasty turn where folks clobber one anothers car on real or percieved shortcomings. Like I said, I like the GTS, it was nsimply not the car I choose. That doesn't mean it wasn't a wonderful decision for you or anyone else who chooses to own one...
As for the comments you attribute to me, I'm not sure where you took those from, but they are not my comments. But, since you ask here is the deal, 5th gear runs out @ 174-177 with a 3.42. 6th gear is a crusing gear and the car simply won't pull anymore in 6th. So, if it was me, on a stock Z06. I'd swap it for a 4.10. A 4.10 will allow the car to pull in 6th gear. You'd pick up about 5mph over the stock 3.42. The 4.10 also shines once the car picks up any more HP. For instance, a 4.10 should allow a 430RWhp car to pull about 196 I'm interested to see what it will do with a 470RWHP car. I have a program that an aerodynamic engineer gave me to get the real numbers we should expect, as the ones I am posting are rough calculations.
Oh, and I am posting a link for your enjoyment. Its a Z06 owner who hated his car and sold it to get a Mazda Rx-8 and then posted on Corvetteforum what a POS he thought it was. Since folks were wondering what would happen if someone made a similar posts. Here you go.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=695044
As for the comments you attribute to me, I'm not sure where you took those from, but they are not my comments. But, since you ask here is the deal, 5th gear runs out @ 174-177 with a 3.42. 6th gear is a crusing gear and the car simply won't pull anymore in 6th. So, if it was me, on a stock Z06. I'd swap it for a 4.10. A 4.10 will allow the car to pull in 6th gear. You'd pick up about 5mph over the stock 3.42. The 4.10 also shines once the car picks up any more HP. For instance, a 4.10 should allow a 430RWhp car to pull about 196 I'm interested to see what it will do with a 470RWHP car. I have a program that an aerodynamic engineer gave me to get the real numbers we should expect, as the ones I am posting are rough calculations.
Oh, and I am posting a link for your enjoyment. Its a Z06 owner who hated his car and sold it to get a Mazda Rx-8 and then posted on Corvetteforum what a POS he thought it was. Since folks were wondering what would happen if someone made a similar posts. Here you go.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=695044
joe117
Enthusiast
Yeah, you're right, it was the cobra guy who said he could change the gears and go faster. I don't think that is really true.
Here's a link to a page that talks about Viper gearing and speeds obtainable.
http://www.viperclub.org/faq/techgears.html
I think if you look at it you will see that you probably don't have enough power to make 6th the top speed gear with a 4.1 rear.
I'll admit, it would be close but I just don't think changing your final drive from 2.57 in 5th to 2.05 in 6th is going to let you go any faster.
The lightly modded GTS in the example can do it but he has quite a bit of torque to work with.
Here's a link to a page that talks about Viper gearing and speeds obtainable.
http://www.viperclub.org/faq/techgears.html
I think if you look at it you will see that you probably don't have enough power to make 6th the top speed gear with a 4.1 rear.
I'll admit, it would be close but I just don't think changing your final drive from 2.57 in 5th to 2.05 in 6th is going to let you go any faster.
The lightly modded GTS in the example can do it but he has quite a bit of torque to work with.
With the stock motor between 350-360 RWHP, its close I agree. My rough estimates is about a couple of MPH at most 5MPH with a 4.10 if the car is on the high end of the scale HP wise from the factory. But, as soon as you make any more HP, then you actually can use it and make more top end. The problem with 5th is that if you leave the stock gears in the car, you need to turn up the rev limiter, or pull 6th to run any more MPH, and right around stock, the car will loose speed when you pull 6th. Its just too tall. With the 3.42 depending on the car and the Torque sometimes that leaves you below where you can pull.
I would agree with you on the Viper though. It does have boatloads of torque. Thats one of the things that is nice about the Viper (according to John) is that from for instance on the freeway... You just mash the gas, and the car just motors right along (pulling like a freight train). In my case I might have to pull a gear to get the motor where it makes more optimal power.
Again, I have an nice program that calculates all of it, I just have been too lazy to put in all the exact numbers.
Ok.... I fired up the sheet. I haven't messed with putting in the updated numbers, but here is the HP required for a Z06 to run X mph top end...
Tire Pressure Weight Cd Sref
35 3,115 0.31 23.00
175 343
180 374
185 406
190 440
195 476
200 514
205 555
210 597
215 641
220 688
225 737
I would agree with you on the Viper though. It does have boatloads of torque. Thats one of the things that is nice about the Viper (according to John) is that from for instance on the freeway... You just mash the gas, and the car just motors right along (pulling like a freight train). In my case I might have to pull a gear to get the motor where it makes more optimal power.
Again, I have an nice program that calculates all of it, I just have been too lazy to put in all the exact numbers.
Ok.... I fired up the sheet. I haven't messed with putting in the updated numbers, but here is the HP required for a Z06 to run X mph top end...
Tire Pressure Weight Cd Sref
35 3,115 0.31 23.00
175 343
180 374
185 406
190 440
195 476
200 514
205 555
210 597
215 641
220 688
225 737
91ZR1#661
Enthusiast
I will agree the GTS viper does look better than a Z06,but to say the Viper
has a better looking interior is simply not true.Yes the C5's interior is not
that great,but the Viper's is'nt exactly German quality either.With equal drivers I would give the edge to the GTS over the 405 Z06.And of course it has
a substantial top speed advantage.But that was not the focus of the Z06 when
it was designed.It was designed as a track car.An all around performer.And
for the money,there is simply nothing better.I personally would not buy a Z06
because I love the targa top of the regular C5.And you do see alot of Z06's
around.And obviously alot of regular C5's.The C5 is a great car,alot of bang
for the buck and very reliable and rattle free.I am enjoying my C5.
Just my opinion.
Steve
has a better looking interior is simply not true.Yes the C5's interior is not
that great,but the Viper's is'nt exactly German quality either.With equal drivers I would give the edge to the GTS over the 405 Z06.And of course it has
a substantial top speed advantage.But that was not the focus of the Z06 when
it was designed.It was designed as a track car.An all around performer.And
for the money,there is simply nothing better.I personally would not buy a Z06
because I love the targa top of the regular C5.And you do see alot of Z06's
around.And obviously alot of regular C5's.The C5 is a great car,alot of bang
for the buck and very reliable and rattle free.I am enjoying my C5.
Just my opinion.
Steve
I will agree the GTS viper does look better than a Z06
No doubt there...
but to say the Viper
has a better looking interior is simply not true.
I would agree with you there too...
With equal drivers I would give the edge to the GTS over the 405 Z06.And of course it has
Actually, you don't have to give the edge to the GTS, it will take it! It's actually more than an edge on the track. Several tenths is not an edge, it can be an eternity on the track. Yes, the GTS also has a substantially higher top end.
You are right again, for the money there isn't a better
car than the z06. However, if you do want the best all around performance in a U.S made vehicle and can afford it, you can step up to the Viper.
Very good post 91ZR1. I'm looking forward to getting my C5 within the next couple of weeks! It's been quite a few years since I last owned a corvette. Good cars. I too am getting a c5 as I think they are better looking cars than a z06 and will mod past the std z06 performance with the help of a friend who runs the ls1howto website. EXCELLENT site btw if you are a vette guy and want to learn more about modding.
No doubt there...
but to say the Viper
has a better looking interior is simply not true.
I would agree with you there too...
With equal drivers I would give the edge to the GTS over the 405 Z06.And of course it has
Actually, you don't have to give the edge to the GTS, it will take it! It's actually more than an edge on the track. Several tenths is not an edge, it can be an eternity on the track. Yes, the GTS also has a substantially higher top end.
You are right again, for the money there isn't a better
car than the z06. However, if you do want the best all around performance in a U.S made vehicle and can afford it, you can step up to the Viper.
Very good post 91ZR1. I'm looking forward to getting my C5 within the next couple of weeks! It's been quite a few years since I last owned a corvette. Good cars. I too am getting a c5 as I think they are better looking cars than a z06 and will mod past the std z06 performance with the help of a friend who runs the ls1howto website. EXCELLENT site btw if you are a vette guy and want to learn more about modding.
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
joe117
Enthusiast
175 343
180 374
185 406
190 440
195 476
200 514
205 555
210 597
215 641
220 688
225 737
Is that in RWHP?
180 374
185 406
190 440
195 476
200 514
205 555
210 597
215 641
220 688
225 737
Is that in RWHP?
JDR
Enthusiast
Holy Cow!
I don't know what I was thinking - buying a Viper! What a fool I must be...
With all this talk about Corvettes, I guess I should just give my worthless Viper to my son and run down to the Chevy store to get me a REAL car!
Not.
I don't know what I was thinking - buying a Viper! What a fool I must be...
With all this talk about Corvettes, I guess I should just give my worthless Viper to my son and run down to the Chevy store to get me a REAL car!
Not.
Cobra4B
Enthusiast
Hey we agree on something
I agree that the vette guys shouldnt come over here and start this kind of crap on our site,but I am personally more in shock over a fellow Viper owner going over to the srt site and posting negative comments in an inflammatory manor with fellow Viper owners and enthusiasts.We can have our own opinions,but why the bashing of another persons personal choice?I just dont get it,but I guess times have changed.
joe117
Enthusiast
viper585,
Do you really have 17 ZR1s?
Do you really have 17 ZR1s?
SNKEBIT
Enthusiast
Holy ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ChoiceViper
Viper Owner
I was browsing the local auto mall today and came upon a new, showroom Z0-6. Black. They wanted a little more than 52K for it.
Not to bash the vettes "Fit & Finish", but this car's paint job had more orange peel than a Florida Sunkist orchard. Downright wavy paint ugly.
Do you get a free color sanding when you buy one of those things?
Not to bash the vettes "Fit & Finish", but this car's paint job had more orange peel than a Florida Sunkist orchard. Downright wavy paint ugly.
Do you get a free color sanding when you buy one of those things?
SNKEBIT
Enthusiast
Yeah, I think ya get the lights underneath too!!!!!!!
I was browsing the local auto mall today and came upon a new, showroom Z0-6. Black. They wanted a little more than 52K for it.
Not to bash the vettes "Fit & Finish", but this car's paint job had more orange peel than a Florida Sunkist orchard. Downright wavy paint ugly.
Do you get a free color sanding when you buy one of those things?
The current Vette is known for having orange peel. The ammount depends on when the car was painted (it varies). Mine isn't that bad, it has some though. As for 52K, well, that is sticker, and cars can be had for under sticker all day long.
2004 Corvette Z06
Option Package 1SA
Body Side Moldings
6 Speed Manual Transmission
Front License Plate Frame
Drivers Memory Package
Electrochromic Mirror Package
Body Side Moldings
Black Exterior
Modified Torch Red Interior
MSRP $52885.00
Dealer Invoice $46887.73
Dealer processing fees, prep fees, etc. $0.00
Dealer profit $149
SALE PRICE $47036.73
OR
GM Supplier Plan Price $46898.90
Less $500 Bonus Rebate = $46398.90 Net Price
OR
GM Employee Plan Price $44879.33
Less $1000 Matching Cash Rebate = $43879.33
well i have been in plenty of vettes,mustangs (still own a mustang) ferrari's you name it *** i love the viper abouve all of em. If you think the z06 was close to the viper then the dealership is trying to rip people off and its not a vw motor in it or its badly damaged and its runnin on 5 cyl because i have drivin a few z06's and there not even in the same universe as the viper
Solo II
Enthusiast
Well, all I have to say on the issue of the vette's interior...was I sat in a Z06 a few weeks back, as did my friend. We left the dealership, and got into his NEON SXT(with the SRT-4 "viper" seats), and I quite simply asked my friend, "which car has a better interior". After a quick look around his car my friend quickly agreed his $15,000 neon had a nicer interior than the $50,000 Vette.
Personally, I'd take a Viper over a Vette any day. Even if I WON a Vette, I'd simply sell it and use the money to buy a Viper. Just my personal opinion though
Personally, I'd take a Viper over a Vette any day. Even if I WON a Vette, I'd simply sell it and use the money to buy a Viper. Just my personal opinion though
RavenFan_94
Viper Owner
Oh God, please don't dig this thread back up. Burry it, quick!
