With all of the talk about the K&N system I thought I would briefly review my experience. I purchased the K&N system roughly 1 month ago from PartsRack. After the install i didnt feel any benfits or ill affects right away. However In the following weeks I did notice a bit of hesitation at full throttle in the 4000 - 5000 rpm range. Upon reading all of the discussions about the K&N I decided to take it off and check the holes. Sure enough the ventilation hose on the left side of the K&N intake was only 3/8ths wide. The other small tube was fine. I then drilled it out to 1/2 inch with a little room to spare. Once installed, I took it for a few test drives and didnt notice much change however, over the last few drives, I can feel the difference and even hear it. I think the computer needs several hundred miles of driving to properly adjust to new airflow. While I am extremely happy with the outcome now, these issues should not happen.
My K&N experience
- Thread starter Nader
- Start date
Racer Robbie
Enthusiast
is this something new? This has been discussed a thousand times.
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
How about discussing 1001 times (anyway Atro, I have your advice bookmarked).
I’m getting ready to take delivery of a used SRT-10 K&N from VCA member “traynor”. I’m currently running the Snake-Oyl setup which consists of a single smooth-tube with Green Filters (those Green Filters are the size of coffee cans!!). Anyway, I’ve been wondering since day-one whether a K&N would yield any SOP difference over the Snake-Oyl (Green) setup I currently run. I guess we’re about to find out.
Even if no SOP difference is detected, I’ll probably keep both systems just in case some day a dyno reveals a difference that SOP did not. I have plenty of room in my bedroom closet to stash spare car parts. Stashing car parts in the bedroom closet is one of the advantages of living in a “wife-free-zone”.
We are AGAIN talking w/ K+N Engineering to be sure the FIPK kits have both the PCV and MAP tube inlets opened up fully. This should be a simple quality-control issue at the manufacturer......
ACELLR8
Enthusiast
K&N's intake systems are crap in my opinion. Their filters are great but their intakes are just a money making ploy.
I have their $500 fake a$$ carbon fiber intake on my Gen I and while it looks ok, it could be so much better for that amount of money. They should stick to making filters and that's it. Just my 2 cents!!
I have their $500 fake a$$ carbon fiber intake on my Gen I and while it looks ok, it could be so much better for that amount of money. They should stick to making filters and that's it. Just my 2 cents!!
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
I promised I’d get back with an update on SOP difference between K&N and Snake Oyl but it looks like it may be a while. In typical K&N fashion, I have to complete the engineering at home before I can use it.
It seems there may have been a difference between 2003 and 2005 in terms of how the air sensor mounts. The air sensor hole on the K&N plenum I received is way too big for my 2005 sensor.
Also - I don’t know how many of you folks have seen the SRT-10 K&N but the one thing I was amazed at is how small it is. There’s no way anyone will convince me that the K&N plenum flows more air than the stock plenum. It’s a no-brainer. The stock one is huge in comparison. I would have to think that the reported gains of up to 15HP would be the result of the filters themselves or the elimination of the accordion hose found on the stock piece. There’s no way it’s due to the plenum IMO.
I also wonder why the FTC has not investigated a company that sells for almost $300 a piece of plastic that cost about 5 cents to make.
It seems there may have been a difference between 2003 and 2005 in terms of how the air sensor mounts. The air sensor hole on the K&N plenum I received is way too big for my 2005 sensor.
Also - I don’t know how many of you folks have seen the SRT-10 K&N but the one thing I was amazed at is how small it is. There’s no way anyone will convince me that the K&N plenum flows more air than the stock plenum. It’s a no-brainer. The stock one is huge in comparison. I would have to think that the reported gains of up to 15HP would be the result of the filters themselves or the elimination of the accordion hose found on the stock piece. There’s no way it’s due to the plenum IMO.
I also wonder why the FTC has not investigated a company that sells for almost $300 a piece of plastic that cost about 5 cents to make.
SweetRed04
Viper Owner
I did back to back g-tech power tests on my '69 Corvette using a K&N filter and there was no increase in HP.
As far as the FTC goes, they figure you bought it of your own free will so it is between the buyer and seller.
Don't forget that the tooling to make that part might run $10,000 and even if they sold one to half of the SRT-10 owners that is still a pretty small number to amortize the tooling costs over. We build tractors (John Deere Waterloo Works) and in small numbers plastic parts can be surprisingly expensive even in annual quantities of 4,000 to 8,000 pieces!!
As far as the FTC goes, they figure you bought it of your own free will so it is between the buyer and seller.
Don't forget that the tooling to make that part might run $10,000 and even if they sold one to half of the SRT-10 owners that is still a pretty small number to amortize the tooling costs over. We build tractors (John Deere Waterloo Works) and in small numbers plastic parts can be surprisingly expensive even in annual quantities of 4,000 to 8,000 pieces!!
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
Yep – I hear you in terms of the tooling costs and perhaps that price is about right. It just seems that K&N has not even done the RDT&E work necessary to sell the SRT-10 unit. I base my opinion on comments from those who have purchased it. JonB’s comment above just backs it up. It puts guys like JonB in a tough spot. It’s almost like he has to sell it with a disclaimer – “At-Home Engineering Required”.
0
05 Venom
Guest
I explained this in another thread but there was no R&D put into the K&N set-up. They had the filters already made and just threw together an intake bridge.
The reason why there is lag in throttle response is because the K&N intake bridge cannot hold enough air compared to the stock set-up(can you believe it!!) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, just look at the set-up side by side. What.. does K&N take us Viper owners as idiots. It is definetly NOT worth the money. I removed it and installed the Snake-Oyl set up. I am very pleased with it and can feel a difference over stock.
P.S. JonB would not take the K&N setup back.
The reason why there is lag in throttle response is because the K&N intake bridge cannot hold enough air compared to the stock set-up(can you believe it!!) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, just look at the set-up side by side. What.. does K&N take us Viper owners as idiots. It is definetly NOT worth the money. I removed it and installed the Snake-Oyl set up. I am very pleased with it and can feel a difference over stock.
P.S. JonB would not take the K&N setup back.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Supprised to hear that people believe K&N did no research.
The president of K&N is a Viper owner, and huge Viper supporter.
I took my SRT (one of the first) to K&N's Riverside R&D center, got to meet some of the marketing people as well as the product development team. They took copious measurements of my stock system. I went back a while later, and they had made up a prototype. They fitted the system, did before and after Dyno runs on their in house dyno, printed out results in front of me. A while later, they called and I went back where they installed the pre-production prototype they made. Again back to back dyno, and prints for me.
They called in another 03 ViperClub owner to check if there were car to car differences, installed the prototype, and ran back to back dynos.
They then contacted the club to supply an early 04 to see if the fittings were the same. Again back to back dyno's. After this fitting and testing they got the OK to produce, and all the while the board was clammoring for K&N to step up to the plate and supply units.
When the first production run was sold into the field, reports came in that the 2 holes were too small, and causing problems. They again collected data, and with the advice of Parts Rack and others changed their design to solve the problem, and avoid customers needing to drill out larger holes.
They spent the time and money to produce a product the Viper community was requesting. No..it was not perfect, but that is sometimes how it works out. For the few #'s of sales to Viper owners they will be hard pressed to make any kind of money compared to mustang or Vette units.
After all this, I took off the K&N's and installed a Paxton unit with their own air filter and box. From the look of it it is also make for them by K&N.
I would find it hard to not appreciate all that K&N has done for Viper Owners.
The president of K&N is a Viper owner, and huge Viper supporter.
I took my SRT (one of the first) to K&N's Riverside R&D center, got to meet some of the marketing people as well as the product development team. They took copious measurements of my stock system. I went back a while later, and they had made up a prototype. They fitted the system, did before and after Dyno runs on their in house dyno, printed out results in front of me. A while later, they called and I went back where they installed the pre-production prototype they made. Again back to back dyno, and prints for me.
They called in another 03 ViperClub owner to check if there were car to car differences, installed the prototype, and ran back to back dynos.
They then contacted the club to supply an early 04 to see if the fittings were the same. Again back to back dyno's. After this fitting and testing they got the OK to produce, and all the while the board was clammoring for K&N to step up to the plate and supply units.
When the first production run was sold into the field, reports came in that the 2 holes were too small, and causing problems. They again collected data, and with the advice of Parts Rack and others changed their design to solve the problem, and avoid customers needing to drill out larger holes.
They spent the time and money to produce a product the Viper community was requesting. No..it was not perfect, but that is sometimes how it works out. For the few #'s of sales to Viper owners they will be hard pressed to make any kind of money compared to mustang or Vette units.
After all this, I took off the K&N's and installed a Paxton unit with their own air filter and box. From the look of it it is also make for them by K&N.
I would find it hard to not appreciate all that K&N has done for Viper Owners.
Gerald
Enthusiast
I know it's been discussed a thousand times, but I just got my SRT-10. Being delivered Tuesday. Need to get decent filters. So the K & N's do not fit/function properly?
Snake Oyl filters function / fit better? I could use the search, but it's Sunday morning and I'm still tired
G
Snake Oyl filters function / fit better? I could use the search, but it's Sunday morning and I'm still tired
G
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
I know it's been discussed a thousand times, but I just got my SRT-10. Being delivered Tuesday. Need to get decent filters. So the K & N's do not fit/function properly?
Snake Oyl filters function / fit better? I could use the search, but it's Sunday morning and I'm still tired
G
It's not os much the filters, but the intake design. From what I gathered, the stock intake is better.
99 RT/10 read 2 posts up. Outside of the hole drilling process I was very happy with the K&N system. Yes it was pricey, but what Viper part have you purchased that isn't.
When you compare the K&N to the stock do not look at volume but at airflow. The stock system has chambers mneant to quiet the intake, not to enhance flow. The K&N's definitely flow better. No question. The only issue ever with the system is the noise that occurs if you do not increase the PCV and idle air ports.
So, before you spread your internet logic please use info from those of us that have had it, dynoed it and know what it did.
When you compare the K&N to the stock do not look at volume but at airflow. The stock system has chambers mneant to quiet the intake, not to enhance flow. The K&N's definitely flow better. No question. The only issue ever with the system is the noise that occurs if you do not increase the PCV and idle air ports.
So, before you spread your internet logic please use info from those of us that have had it, dynoed it and know what it did.
anyone know how to pull the sensor out of the right side I don't want to break it? should I just yank it real hard? I know theres a little red thing that flips back and forth whats the purpose of that? thansk
since I never installed my own I have no idea!
since I never installed my own I have no idea!
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Lots of previous posts on K&N's making better (with proper holes) HP & Torque. The green filters are also promoted by many tuners. Both look to flow better than stock. Guess this is gonna be like another Zaino V. Meguiars thread.
My comments. Paxton flows better than either.
(Insert Vipair thread here)
My comments. Paxton flows better than either.
(Insert Vipair thread here)
Stricky -
The little red latch is to separate the 2 parts of the sensor housing and has nothing to do with getting the sensor out of the plastic. If you slide the red latch towards the outside of the car, you can detatch the top part of the sensor housing (the one with the wire in it). That can give you more leverage to yank but you still have the bottom part (with the actual sensor) in the plastic.
Not certain if anyone else has a better idea but I pretty much just yanked it out. I thought about cutting but decided to keep the stock on in tact. It was a bit scary because I had to pull so hard and I know you need to be careful of the sensor when it comes out (e.g. don't smack it around).
Everything seemed to turn out OK.
j
The little red latch is to separate the 2 parts of the sensor housing and has nothing to do with getting the sensor out of the plastic. If you slide the red latch towards the outside of the car, you can detatch the top part of the sensor housing (the one with the wire in it). That can give you more leverage to yank but you still have the bottom part (with the actual sensor) in the plastic.
Not certain if anyone else has a better idea but I pretty much just yanked it out. I thought about cutting but decided to keep the stock on in tact. It was a bit scary because I had to pull so hard and I know you need to be careful of the sensor when it comes out (e.g. don't smack it around).
Everything seemed to turn out OK.
j
- Joined
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The K&N system worked very well for me too. I drilled out both holes prior to installation. One at 1/2 and one at 3/8 as I recall. Noticeable hp / tq gain over stock according to SOTP meeter.
Now with the Paxton, which really flows, my K&N's are sitting in storage.
No, K&N didn't get it right the first time, but they are still very PRO Viper.
Now with the Paxton, which really flows, my K&N's are sitting in storage.
No, K&N didn't get it right the first time, but they are still very PRO Viper.
tmcphail
Enthusiast
I gained 10rwhp peak using the KN setup opposed to stock. It did nothing down low but slowly gained power above 3000rpm to 6000rpm. I did back to back pulls to rule out other factors the best that I could.
Also I would like someone to explain to me why enlarging the crankcase vent ******* changes airflow into the motor ?
Also I would like someone to explain to me why enlarging the crankcase vent ******* changes airflow into the motor ?
It does, but not so directly. The PCV side is sucking the air from the crankcase. When the diameter was reduced it changed the PCV pressures and caused the pcv to make noise.
The second is the idle air circuit. In this case the smaller tube would of caused a pressure drop reducing air flow through th eidle circuit such that the idle air control would need to be opened more than normal. Not sure why this would impact part throttle driving, but it did.
The second is the idle air circuit. In this case the smaller tube would of caused a pressure drop reducing air flow through th eidle circuit such that the idle air control would need to be opened more than normal. Not sure why this would impact part throttle driving, but it did.
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
Results are in. The K&N seems to pull really strong and there’s no doubt I’ve lost nothing vs. the Green system and probably gained some. It pulls really strong but it’s hard for me to tell how much “better” it is vs. the Green. Part of my problem is that prior to running my car today with the K&N, I hadn’t run my car WOT for about 2 months. Maybe I just forgot how strong it pulls – or maybe it’s the K&N – who knows.
Anyway – I’d love to talk to anyone who thinks the SRT-10 K&N system “fits” correctly. In terms of fit, it’s the biggest piece of junk I’ve ever installed on any car. You had better have lots of patience and lots of foam tape to seal the area where the clamshell meets the K&N snorkel. If you run without the clamshell, then it’s a moot point however, I feel the clamshell is critical for giving you the “ram-air” effect it was designed for in conjunction with the functional hood scoop.
Anyway, I’ll probably keep the K&N on because I believe it’s stronger than the Green but it’s a shame that I have to use foam tape to make it work right. I would expect more from K&N – especially for $300.
Anyway – I’d love to talk to anyone who thinks the SRT-10 K&N system “fits” correctly. In terms of fit, it’s the biggest piece of junk I’ve ever installed on any car. You had better have lots of patience and lots of foam tape to seal the area where the clamshell meets the K&N snorkel. If you run without the clamshell, then it’s a moot point however, I feel the clamshell is critical for giving you the “ram-air” effect it was designed for in conjunction with the functional hood scoop.
Anyway, I’ll probably keep the K&N on because I believe it’s stronger than the Green but it’s a shame that I have to use foam tape to make it work right. I would expect more from K&N – especially for $300.
