My Observations about VCA - This is NOT Good

[MoparBoyy]

I'm seeing a pattern I just need to point out. It's a pattern of blame. I don't see the VCA taking responsibility for any of their mistakes, even new ones they're making today. But I'm seeing excuses and blame in the last few months. It's been THREE months since things blew wide open. I want to talk about the current state, the blame being spread, and also my future concern.

In the past the blame fell on certain people, but then it was Ralph when he intervened, and now it's the people who started the VOA. The VCA had BIG problems contributing to ALL of this, and STILL does. Outside of any stories from either side, I've watched with MY OWN eyes the way the VCA conducts their business NOW. And I'm not even referring to the things recently done historically by Lee and some of the still current leadership, I'm talking about all the things simply over the last 3 months. And the VCA board continues to be so negative and now threatens officers and presidents who have left (pretty much the vast majority). And I can't believe some of the stuff you've published. You don't need the past to decide, you can see how things are managed now. this is what I've SEEN for myself:

- I've seen the poor (and negative) communications from the VCA and specific officers. This was laughable.
- In addition, many simple commitments even recently (and published) can't be accomplished.
- It's clear that magazines won't be delivered on time and now I'm concerned we'll never see them. You guys came out with a plan just 6-8 weeks ago to publish something each month, what happened to that? I want my magazines that I paid for.
- There was even some talk of a 2013 election rather than waiting to 2014. What happened to that?
- What about bylaws, we didn't see any vote on new bylaws or any real significant change. There has been no status as to what to include, omit, or change. What's the process? You guys simply "work on them".
- What about meetings with the presidents, there hasn't been one call with the VCA at all! This isn't good!
- And then there's Chris Marshall, months have gone by with him still being highly involved (in some cases in great control) of the magazine, VPA, and administration. This was a crisis and fast movement needed to be made, it was also even made very clear in the rebuttal letter from Mopar that it caused issues.
- And what about new board members and officers. Most of your officers or board members were either kicked out or left. Most of your openings remain vacant and a small group of people now make all the decisions? That's not good at all. There's been no email sent to recruit new officers or to even ask for volunteers.
- The mini campaigns being waged with presidents are deplorable. We share the information we all receive, more than you know. I've seen specifically VERY recent emails from Dan to people, many of them. They are negative, bitter, and wrong. This is poor behavior and some of it is inaccurate or highly disputable. It's being forwarded among people to see, and that does damage on its own. Don't blame others.
- The general membership has gotten MORE dissatisfied with what it has seen and has begun leaving in droves.
- TRANSPARENCY HAS BEEN HORRIBLE. Period. This is one of your #1 issues!! The VCA is more quiet now than ever and who else is involved in decision making??

NONE of those things are misinformation, the VCA has demonstrated ALL of the above and it's been witnessed and is current. I'd like answers.


NOW, WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE:
- Where are the VCA with finances?? We haven't seen a recent financial report that shows us where we are now, and more importantly where we'll be. At the turbulent time, it would help.
- Do we even have a treasurer???
- In fact who is our president and for that matter and our secretary?? How does the office even function legitimately to do business??
- There are SEVERAL magazines you still need to print. What is going on with that? Nothing is being spoken at all and it's part of the current 2013 year which is over in 3 weeks. Obviously there's been a failure on the plan communicated 2 months ago, so WHAT is the current plan? Why do WE have to ask.
- You still OWE a lot of money to all the regions. I hear that there is now fear of membership due checks maybe not being issued to the existing VCA regions as part of their 2013 dues. This would be VERY wrong! Regardless of their decision to change to a different club in 2014, it should not be held by the national club as a punishment. AND WHO WOULD MAKE THAT DECISION? And if you DO decide to hold the money - then at least donate it to a charity. I'm concerned what that money is being used for, it does NOT belong to national.

I will also make a general statement. The VCA is trying to fix 100 things that are broken or are wrong. Some new big mistakes are even being made now. Sometimes it's easier to simply start clean when challenges are overwhelming so that success will be likely, rather than uphill. THAT'S why people are going to the other club. Because it can all be built from scratch and a lot of things simply don't need to be addressed and control is given to the public, very different than it is here.

Lastly, others have been blamed for the demise of the VCA, including Ralph. Now it's the VOA officers, the "splinter group" as you like to call them (more wonderful negativity). The VOA has no names for you and they publish nothing negative while the VCA pursues character assassination. Don't you see that works against you?? The VOA has built a club that gave control to all the presidents and the officers have to answer to them. That's how it should be, they serve their club. Their communication has been impeccable and positive and they purposely stay away from mudslinging. Aside from their credit card screw up, I really don't see a thing they did wrong. And frankly the credit card issue was highly communicated and TRANSPARENT.

I want positivity, good relationships, and strong leadership in my club. The VCA not only doesn't have that, but hasn't for some time, and it's getting worse. And once and for all no one is STEALING your members they are definitely choosing to move away because of what you're doing.

P.S. I so see the attempt to do things that are aimed specific at winning people over. For instance, letting Jon B back in. You guys never wanted him in, that was clear. This went on for years! But NOW you do it because you HAVE to, you need to get people back on board with you. Also, I will say the halfhearted (and LATE) attempt to do anything to mend things with Ralph and SRT was a flop. People talk to Ralph and others, they know where things stand. This is a thinly veiled publicity tactic. Why not focus on the REAL issues and fix the club. You know what needs to be done.

I would like answers to the above. I want to have discussion about these things because there is not enough visibility with the current AND future state of this club. And I don't like the only tactic I'm seeing is blaming others. Tell us the PLAN.

 

[ferraritoviper]

Bob, I can hear you ponding the keyboard

 

[Oilman1934]

Response,blah blah blah, everything is fine.

 

[Bobpantax]

He raises some (not all) very good points and the current leadership should respond with a detailed post. Transparency is an admirable goal.

But he should also do a budget analysis of how much it costs to deliver what has been promised by the new club's leadership. The dues from 600 plus members does not even come close to meeting the budget required.

Maybe the generous people who contributed the funds to establish the new club will contribute more funds. Maybe they will not. Maybe the new club will figure out a way to do raffles to raise funds. IRS rules allow raffles by non profits if participation is limited to qualified members and a few other conditions are met.

One thing for sure, the soft money from Chrysler is gone for both clubs. And, even if it came back, based on current sales volume, the amount generated would not be enough.

We will see what happens.

Bob, I can hear you ponding the keyboard

 

[MoparBoyy]

did BobP just agree with me? wheres Ashton?!?! i'm totally getting punk'd.

 

[ViperSmith]

He raises some (not all) very good points and the current leadership should respond with a detailed post. Transparency is an admirable goal.

But he should also do a budget analysis of how much it costs to deliver what has been promised by the new club's leadership. The dues from 600 plus members does not even come close to meeting the budget required.

Maybe the generous people who contributed the funds to establish the new club will contribute more funds. Maybe they will not. Maybe the new club will figure out a way to do raffles to raise funds. IRS rules allow raffles by non profits if participation is limited to qualified members and a few other conditions are met.

One thing for sure, the soft money from Chrysler is gone for both clubs. And, even if it came back, based on current sales volume, the amount generated would not be enough.

We will see what happens.

Two sentenced about the VCA

three paragraphs complaining bout the VOA.

Glad nothing has changed.

 

[Gustfront]

Two sentenced about the VCA

three paragraphs complaining bout the VOA.

Glad nothing has changed.

lol. That pretty well sums that post up. As a matter of fact, it pretty wells sums Bobby's skewed point of view when it comes to the VCA. Along with Chris and Mary's complicity in regards to the current status of the club. The rebuttals are amusing though, you have to admit.

 

[GRANGER73]

He raises some (not all) very good points and the current leadership should respond with a detailed post. Transparency is an admirable goal.

Bob, why don't you refuse to defend the VCA any further until they do respond? It's quite obvious that you too, are concerned with the "no response" approach. Many issues have been raised, and still no answers. The only logical reason for the lack of a response is that an honest response would confirm that things may even be worse than most imagine them to be. That certainly is a possibility and their lack of response makes it a probability. I can understand your loyalty to the club, but your leading the charge and even you don't have all the facts. Time for you to play hardball.

 

[Free2go]

I'm gonna pluck a page from the " Gen V forum of the supreme and genetically gifted": If you have nothing good to say about the VCA, if you can't stroke my Johnson whilst simultaneously engaging in discreet humble brag, if you can't pay homage at least once every 2-3 posts to the "Almighty Ralph".....you are a troll that must be cleansed.

 

[Bobpantax]

Not my style. I do not think that it is a no response approach. I think that they have other VCA related work to do before January and have prioritized their time, especially since it is the holiday season, in such a manner as to make posting responses here less important. I would suggest to them that taking a bit more time to provide a more detailed response and to post the revised Bylaws - even if they are in a proposed form - would be a helpful thing to do.

But also note my budget obervations about the new club. People should remember that when Chrysler went into bankruptcy in 2009 the subsidies to the VCA from each Viper purchase and any other direct or indirect financial benefit stopped. At that time, if I recall correctly, the club had over 3000 members.

But for the raffle net income, the club could not have survived as it did. Just add up the costs: Distributions to the Regions, magazines, any reimbursement that may have been provided to officers who attended the annual meeting, if any; the back room costs for processing membership applications, some of the start up costs of a number of VOIs, the little trinkets and ID cards that you got when you renewed, the cost of maintaining this site, etc.

I do not think that Chrysler will ever renew any club subsidies. Especially now that there are two clubs. It just would be bad business and marketing.

The new club may have been immaculately conceived in the eyes of some that post here but I do not think it will be funded by G-d. I do not see either club being able to provide the historical level of funding, etc to the Regions or the historical level of benefits to its members without raffle income being generated.

The good news is that I believe the VCA will be having a raffle sometime before the end of the first quarter of next year. Am I 100% sure? No. But I think that it is probable. It can only be open to members. Not because of any arbitrary rule. It is a requirement of the rules governing exempt organizations. So, once a raffle is announced, if someone wishes to participate, and they are not a member, they will have to join the VCA first to buy a raffle ticket.

And before the snide remarks start about the past raffle, rest assured that the next one will be held in MoparrBoy's living room. LOL.

Bob, why don't you refuse to defend the VCA any further until they do respond? It's quite obvious that you too, are concerned with the "no response" approach. Many issues have been raised, and still no answers. The only logical reason for the lack of a response is that an honest response would confirm that things may even be worse than most imagine them to be. That certainly is a possibility and their lack of response makes it a probability. I can understand your loyalty to the club, but your leading the charge and even you don't have all the facts. Time for you to play hardball.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Getting really tired of these VOA fan boys attacking VCA. Not much going on over there, so this seems where they are drawn

Think they would go an play in their own sand box. Seems like they have nothing better to do as their current website is dead as a door nail.

They are still VCA members I believe. Maybe want to poison the well before they wander off.

Want to milk every last minute of attention over here before they slink away.

Bet they miss the VPA member discounts when they are gone. Where they going to buy Mopar parts at discount prices.

Going to miss out on the VOI. Going to miss out on the Zone Rendezvous, Going to miss out on a pretty cool raffle car. Going to just miss out on it all.

No snide response needed here either.

 

[Camfab]

I just have one question MoparBoyy.........

Seriously, are you really concerned about the VCA and do you want to rejoin?
All this stuff has been hashed out so many times it's ridiculous, who cares, it is what it is.........
All the stuff I've read from you is that your done with this place, be done with it already.
I think the whole deal is sickening, both the VCA as well as the VOA. I'm really not sure if I'll join either club anymore, but we all know the facts we've heard them for months. If the VCA doesn't want to respond then so be it, but please put this constant negativity campaign away.

Here's the funny thing, I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY. It's a car club, I pay $150 to get some discounts and hang out with some cool people, I'm fine with it. If someone is getting rich I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

 

[MoparBoyy]

Bob, a few quick points here because you're actually making my exact points. Understand that:

- They can't be so busy as to not be able to answer these issues. That's nuts! Are they THAT busy. What have they done? And with all the other ranting they do on this website (and behind the scenes), it can't be that tough. The VOA guys BUILT AN ENTIRE CLUB with a larger team and in some cases better than we have now. What has the VCA done in 3 months by comparison?? Answer that for me.
- On your budget observation, yes they didn't have money and they pulled themselves out - however the club SHOULDN'T be dependent on the manufacturer for money. And second, our costs are so high it forces us into the financial issues we're having - we CAUSED OUR OWN PROBLEM. The magazine is a PERFECT example. That is a massive expense this club CANNOT afford - the frequency, cost to produce, and advertiser money going to Chris. That was a very bad decision. And now you've lost most of your members, like a deck of cards it's going to fall apart. Isn't that being seen???
- As for the raffle you mention… The fact that the club MUST do a raffle to SURVIVE, should be ONE OF THE SIGNS that we're not doing a great job living within our means. That is no small thing. Fine a small raffle ig good, to generate a few bucks. But to run a $250K raffle twice a year because you HAVE to. That should tell you something.
- I don't think the VOA guys care at all about financial support from Chrysler. They are more interested in the relationship which brings with it the perks, closeness, and benefits to members. They have said that if Chrysler gives them nothing, they're not at all at a loss, that's not their purpose. Their PLAN is to NOT rely on Chrysler for money. However, it's almost funny how you're touting that you're proud the VCA just survived a year when we lost support from Chrysler (and we're deeper in the crapper still…). We shouldn't have felt so entitled to that money, nor should we have been so reliant.
- We should keep the chat relative to the VCA rather than VOA, but since you're guessing at the future about the VOA let me help you so that you're accurate… the VOA has ALREADY communicated to its presidents on the conference calls that they have that their operating costs simply through advertising and member dues cover ALL costs for the club. They are at the very least near a balance that is needed simply through membership stuff and ads. A lot of this is due to the fact that they elected to do fewer magazines, don't have as many paid positions, don't have baggage, and leveraged relationships to get great pricing. And by the way, they had to START the club day one, build something equal and better than the VCA has, with a zero starting balance.
- And almost most importantly, the VCA having a raffle is NOT… NOT…. NOT… "good news". Again, saying that it's great we'll have another one is inaccurate and misleading. You NEED a raffle to SURVIVE. That is not a good thing!!!!!

I also want to point out that several of the people who started the new club are seasoned with running clubs, and some of them removed from the years of recent polsitics. They came BACK to rebuild what was in place before we turned the VCA into a business with so many conflicts and so much control by national. They know what they're doing and they knew exactly what needed to be put in place day 1. And they gave all the power to it's members. That is the plar opposite of the VCA. Nothing says it better.

I didn't want to really mention VOA and draw too many comparisons because I don’t want to seem like I'm advertising. But if you're going to guess about their future, where they get their money, how things with Chrysler will go… I figured I better inform you before you make too much more of a fool of yourself. So let's keep the discussion about the VCA and help get some ANSWERS to the questions I've posed.

 

[FOViper]

Bet they miss the VPA member discounts when they are gone. Where they going to buy Mopar parts at discount prices.

I will gladly pay more for any part as long as Chris Marshall doesn't get a dime of my $$$. How about Parts Rack or my local dealership?

As for the VOI, raffle, zone rendezvous comment. Good luck with all of those. I suggest at least trying to hold the raffle legally this time.

 

[AZTVR]

MoparBoyy, You do realize, don't you, that you appear here as the voice of the VOA whether that is your intention or not? I assume that it is your intention because of your signature, the fact that you are owner of the VOA Facebook page and the tone of your posts.

The logical assumption is that you are here to drag down the VCA so that the VOA looks better to people who have not decided where they might send their membership dues for 2014.

Please answer one question: Are you going to renew your VCA membership for 2014 ?

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Moparboyy: You are certainly coming across as a tool of the VOA. It appears you intentionally posted this in a public (non-member) forum so that any potential new VCA members would see this and might be influenced by your supposed "good of the order" comments. You (and others) talk about how things are all cheeky/cuddly at the VOA forums. I agree they are but there is a small handful of you that spend a lot of time here continuing to stoke the fires of discontent knowing that you have no intent of helping to repair what you helped break. Some of those trolling here are even in leadership positions in the VOA! Your signature quotes "proud member of the splinter group." How shameful that you and others feel the need to disparage the group you are "proud" to not belong to any longer.

In full disclosure: I am well aware of the challenges faced by the VCA and I am also well aware of the actions of those who felt compelled to start a new club (and how the new club was formed/funded). I am in the group that hasn't decided whether I will belong to either group in 2014. I will say that the behavior and actions of folks like you certainly don't help me feel like a "proud member" of the community of Viper owners.

As mentioned by others, the best thing you and the others could do would be to quietly leave and help make your new club a better place. Let the leadership of the VCA do the same thing with their club. That will give the rest of us the opportunity to choose between two very strong communities of Viper owners.

 

[luc]

Moparboyy: You are certainly coming across as a tool of the VOA. It appears you intentionally posted this in a public (non-member) forum so that any potential new VCA members would see this and might be influenced by your supposed "good of the order" comments. You (and others) talk about how things are all cheeky/cuddly at the VOA forums. I agree they are but there is a small handful of you that spend a lot of time here continuing to stoke the fires of discontent knowing that you have no intent of helping to repair what you helped break. Some of those trolling here are even in leadership positions in the VOA! Your signature quotes "proud member of the splinter group." How shameful that you and others feel the need to disparage the group you are "proud" to not belong to any longer.

In full disclosure: I am well aware of the challenges faced by the VCA and I am also well aware of the actions of those who felt compelled to start a new club (and how the new club was formed/funded). I am in the group that hasn't decided whether I will belong to either group in 2014. I will say that the behavior and actions of folks like you certainly don't help me feel like a "proud member" of the community of Viper owners.

As mentioned by others, the best thing you and the others could do would be to quietly leave and help make your new club a better place. Let the leadership of the VCA do the same thing with their club. That will give the rest of us the opportunity to choose between two very strong communities of Viper owners.

I'm glad that Moparboyy posted in the public forum, if everything is above board and clean, what's the point of hiding it in a For-member-only section?

 

[Camfab]

I'm glad that Moparboyy posted in the public forum, if everything is above board and clean, what's the point of hiding it in a For-member-only section?

Luc, I think your not getting the point here. This stuff has been hashed out so many times, it's crazy. If the VOA is the better place, it will succeed over time. This constant negativity campaign from strong supporters of the VOA only makes it appear that hatred and an agenda exists. That's not the way to establish a better place, all it tells me is that two sides are at war and that makes me suspect of this new place and its leaders. Another words the new place is really the old place, and the kids who didn't get their way ran off to start a new club. Sounds like grade school stuff to me.

 

[Bobpantax]

So MoparrBoy. The funding from the Viper couple for the new club did not really occur? Of course it did. You are not up to speed on how much it cost to stand up the new club and where the money came from.

You also seem to be indicating that the members of the new club will not be receiving the same level of benefits as provided by the VCA. Fine. If they wish to offer less, that is their choice.

Lastly, the VCA did not lose its relationship with Chrysler or Mopar. Chrysler still very much wants to sell cars and Mopar still wants to sell parts to VCA members and their affiliates and knows just how bad a business decision it would be to take sides or reinsert itself in club level affairs or disputes.

Note that VPA is still alive and is a MOPAR parts dealer. VPA is also the repository of a great deal of Viper history including the molds, etc. for older generations provided to it by Chrysler. As the 100% owner of VPA, the VCA holds the physical heritage of the Viper. This fact alone makes the VCA different and very special. The VCA will survive and remain the depository for Viper heritage. That heritage is more important than a few bruised egos.

 

[MtnBiker]

Here's the funny thing, I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT TRANSPARENCY. It's a car club, I pay $150 to get some discounts and hang out with some cool people, I'm fine with it. If someone is getting rich I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

Seriously? You should seek a career in politics. Who cares how they spend tax $$, as long as I'm getting my food stamps! Ridiculous!

 

[redtanrt10]

Luc, I think your not getting the point here. This stuff has been hashed out so many times, it's crazy. If the VOA is the better place, it will succeed over time. This constant negativity campaign from strong supporters of the VOA only makes it appear that hatred and an agenda exists. That's not the way to establish a better place, all it tells me is that two sides are at war and that makes me suspect of this new place and its leaders. Another words the new place is really the old place, and the kids who didn't get their way ran off to start a new club. Sounds like grade school stuff to me.

Agree^^^^

MtnBiker, I'm not going to speak for Camfab regarding his dues comment but I think he and I have similar thoughts. Also, here in SoCal we've got a great club and folks that spend a great deal of time organizing events and looking out for the members. If $50.00 of my dues went to the local pres and the other directors for all the work they do, I don't have an issue, they work their ass off here and I get value.

 

[Camfab]

Seriously? You should seek a career in politics. Who cares how they spend tax $$, as long as I'm getting my food stamps! Ridiculous!

MtnBiker, I'm gonna give you a pass on that one. Those of us, and I'm guessing yourself included pay the vast majority of this country's taxes as a percent of dollars earned. I don't get foodstamps. Your analogy isn't.

Thanks redtanrt10, for understanding my point.

 

[MtnBiker]

My only point was that we should care about where the dues are spent, just as we should about our tax $$. I too have no problem with hard working folks earning their value. I have already paid dues for 2014, and at VOA. That's not a lot of money. I just wish all this negativity would go away.

 

[luc]

Luc, I think your not getting the point here. This stuff has been hashed out so many times, it's crazy. If the VOA is the better place, it will succeed over time. This constant negativity campaign from strong supporters of the VOA only makes it appear that hatred and an agenda exists. That's not the way to establish a better place, all it tells me is that two sides are at war and that makes me suspect of this new place and its leaders. Another words the new place is really the old place, and the kids who didn't get their way ran off to start a new club. Sounds like grade school stuff to me.

I'm of the opinion that all this For-Members-Only crap is 100% BS. Being the forum sections, the How-To or even the fact that you are not a viper owner even if you OWN a Viper.
I have been around a very long time (even used to be a member) to know that, in many ways, VOA = VCA
The VOA is run mostly by ex VCA Nationals that were at the control of the VCA and KNEW about all the issues ( censorship, miss-management, etc) of the club and therefore were also responsible for them

 

[MoparBoyy]

I know about the startup money, everyone does. It's not like you have information no one else has. To start the club they used seed money to get them up to speed. It was offered as a gift, but they instead said they were going to pay it back. It's no secret.

There aren't less member benefits. In fact there are more. If you're referring to the magazine, yes it's 4 instead of 6. I have a feeling the VCA will decide to do the same.

Chrysler will sell cars to anyone, that doesn't mean you have a relationship with them. And VPA is a mess of its own.

That being said, I will not be renewing. I have not seen any changes that were promised, people keep saying 'they're coming' but with no action i've seen.

 

[Oilman1934]

I heard from a very reliable source SRT is coming on board at VOA.

 

[Bobpantax]

If SRT favors one Viper club over the other, it is a very bad business decision that could not possibly be based on logic. It contradicts what I was told was a revised Chrysler corporate policy toward car clubs which resulted after the VCA issues arose. It would just act to make an unpleasant situation worse. And as a Fiat shareholder I would consider the approach to be a poor managment strategy.

 

[Bird325]

Moparboyy: You are certainly coming across as a tool of the VOA. It appears you intentionally posted this in a public (non-member) forum so that any potential new VCA members would see this and might be influenced by your supposed "good of the order" comments. You (and others) talk about how things are all cheeky/cuddly at the VOA forums. I agree they are but there is a small handful of you that spend a lot of time here continuing to stoke the fires of discontent knowing that you have no intent of helping to repair what you helped break. Some of those trolling here are even in leadership positions in the VOA! Your signature quotes "proud member of the splinter group." How shameful that you and others feel the need to disparage the group you are "proud" to not belong to any longer.

In full disclosure: I am well aware of the challenges faced by the VCA and I am also well aware of the actions of those who felt compelled to start a new club (and how the new club was formed/funded). I am in the group that hasn't decided whether I will belong to either group in 2014. I will say that the behavior and actions of folks like you certainly don't help me feel like a "proud member" of the community of Viper owners.

As mentioned by others, the best thing you and the others could do would be to quietly leave and help make your new club a better place. Let the leadership of the VCA do the same thing with their club. That will give the rest of us the opportunity to choose between two very strong communities of Viper owners.

+1 It seems that there are many on the VCA boards that have no intention of rebuilding the club or trying to help fix it. I think there are other places for them to go. The Alley doesn't like the VCA ... how about over there?

 

[Oilman1934]

Maybe,maybe not.

 

[TowDawg]

I will gladly pay more for any part as long as Chris Marshall doesn't get a dime of my $$$. How about Parts Rack or my local dealership?

As for the VOI, raffle, zone rendezvous comment. Good luck with all of those. I suggest at least trying to hold the raffle legally this time.

I actually just bought a few parts for mine. I paid slightly more for tires from Luke, but I found every other part for a lower price than the VPA offers (including the VENOM discount, when applicable). I'm not saying I could find EVERY part that they offer for a lower price, but there's nothing I've ever needed that I couldn't find for a better price by looking around (other than the tires, by a few bucks).
I used to buy from the VPA because I thought I was supporting the VCA. Once I figured out all I was doing was lining CM's pockets with a business he was given, funded by my money, by pushing out the competition, and never giving a dime a back to the VCA, I decided that I would never do business with them again.