My Stock 06 Vert Does It Again With A New Best E.T. of 11.57 @ 122.41

[Speedfreak]

Can hardly believe it myself but I turned a smoking 11.572 @ 122.41 at the track tonight. Conditions were very similar to last Wednesday when I set the other record but tonight I pulled out all the stops and used every drag racing trick I could think of. I think this will be the conclusion of my stock 06 runflat experiment. The tires are all but gone and I just don't think there is anything left in her after this time unless I waited until next winter. In my opinion the only way this gets improved on is with that 1 in 100 60 foot time and perfect 1-2 shift and some great weather and even then it won't be much. A stock 06 Viper turning 11.50s in sea level weather is flat spanking it.

I also put away my first Z06 tonight to boot with an 11.76 @ 120.8 to his 11.83 @ 125.13. I got a good whole shot on him and held on for a nail biter but he was pulling on me like a freight train toward the end. Don't know if the car is stock or not.

I got very close to breaking my old 11.69 on the first pass and frankly if I wasn't carrying so much fuel I probably would have. I went 11.70 @ 121.45 after an extended cool down at the starting line because the guy right in front of me blew his radiator at 3/4 track so I sat for probably 20 minutes waiting for clean up.

I ran two or three more low 11.70s and decided to give the car an extended cool down and see if I could get that killer pass with the weather improving as the night went on. Track attendance was very light tonight so I went to the staging manager and asked if when I was ready to go he would let me pull up immediately and run. He said o.k. so the plan was on. I let her cool about 45 minutes. Usually cool downs have not worked for me because of reduced traction because the run flats cool off to much. For this run I did no less than THREE burnouts to bring them back up to temp. As I have mentioned before I do best normally hot lapping the car because the tires stay hot. Forget that crap about how it doesn't help a street tire. Any tire we run on a viper is alot closer to a racing tire than a normal street radial and they need heat. Period. If they sit more than 10-15 minutes you will loose traction, guaranteed. I pulled up, staged and the rest is history. Here is the pass:

Reaction Time .034
60' 1.805
330' 4.940
1/8 7.517
MPH 95.58
1000 9.719
1/4 11.572
MPH 122.41

Everything about this pass had to do with getting the maximum horsepower out of the car and the cool down did it. MPH was up about 1.6 MPH. The 1-2 shift was perfect with only a slight bark. Time to start modding the car. The Z06's better watch out, there is a new sheriff in town. LOL.

 

[Twister]

HOLY FING SH*T..

I told you man...Whats even crazier is that if you had dose negative 1000 ft DA's that some people run in ( atco) youd be cranking out 11.3 at 124 mph..

Your time is the most impressive Ive ever seen..What makes it so impressive is that your running in Florida. Florida and hawaii are two of the slower places to drag race in comparison to the rest of the united states..

Move over Jamie furman..theirs a new sherrif in town

F**K..I just cant beleave it..11.5..man I wish their was a track on my Hawaiian island they closed it in 2004 and never built another one..

representin speed freak..representin

 

[Twister]

*Disclaimer* Jamie..No offense ment. It's just that I thought you held a record or atleaste close to a record with an 11.6 at 121 in a stock GTS ACR right? Please clarify..

But this 11.5 is ground breaking!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Speedfreak]

HOLY FING SH*T..

I told you man...Whats even crazier is that if you had dose negative 1000 ft DA's that some people run in ( atco) youd be cranking out 11.3 at 124 mph..

Your time is the most impressive Ive ever seen..What makes it so impressive is that your running in Florida. Florida and hawaii are two of the slower places to drag race in comparison to the rest of the united states..

Move over Jamie furman..theirs a new sherrif in town

F**K..I just cant beleave it..11.5..man I wish their was a track on my Hawaiian island they closed it in 2004 and never built another one..

representin speed freak..representin

Believe me Twister I was every bit as excited as you are. I think I said every expletive there is afterwards and nearly piled up the car going back to the pits I was so fired up.

 

[utahviper]

Get it on! Dude that is smokin! That is the best I have ever seen out of a stock 03-06. Now it is no good without a video. So next one I call BS without a video. Congrats

 

[Speedfreak]

By the way if someone will tell me how I will post this time slip in this thread. Don't know how though.

Utahviper, I would like nothing more than someone to come out and video. Frankly its not near as much fun celebrating by yourself. All I could do is call my wife. She doesn't get quite as excited about this stuff as us guys!!!

 

[black mamba1]

UNFUGGINGBELIEVABLE!!! yoooo hooooo!! Congratulations!! You are gonna be smacking Zr1's, 599 Fiorina's, GTR's, and Z06's all day long when you just add drag radials..if you add headers, exhaust and get a tune....you are flirtin w/ the 10's!!

Way to represent my man!

 

[FikseGTS]

great run, quickest stock gen III in the database by 3 tenths:

Stock Dodge Viper 1/4 Mile Drag Racing Timeslips

put your slip in there!

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Wow man that is so awesome. I am totally excited for you. Way to represent the Vipers speedfreak. You truly represent your name. PM me if you need help how to post the slip. This is just too cool. I dont think that the vette would of been reeling you in if it was stock. You would of been pulling away from him the higher speed you are at. Man Awesome

 

[Fast Viper]

Spectacular!!

 

[vipeuup]

Just awesome! You rock

 

[jamie furman]

HOLY FING SH*T..

I told you man...Whats even crazier is that if you had dose negative 1000 ft DA's that some people run in ( atco) youd be cranking out 11.3 at 124 mph..

Your time is the most impressive Ive ever seen..What makes it so impressive is that your running in Florida. Florida and hawaii are two of the slower places to drag race in comparison to the rest of the united states..

Move over Jamie furman..theirs a new sherrif in town

F**K..I just cant beleave it..11.5..man I wish their was a track on my Hawaiian island they closed it in 2004 and never built another one..

representin speed freak..representin

He had my GEN 3 beat a long time ago with his last record, I wasn't even close to that time in my GEN 3, I only took it to the track once before I sold it but I wasn't close to that, theres always some one faster! The fastest I have ever been in an old Viper stock is 11.59 at 123 in my old 2001 ACR so he beat that too! When your dialed in your dialed in, good job! Your the man! I am glad to see someone turn a good time in a GEN 3 because I didn't think they had it in them? I guess all they really needed was a good driver that was willing to put in the time.

And Florida is not one of the slowest places to race, I grew up in Jupiter and have a home their now and have raced Moroso literally hundreds of times going all the way back to 1979 when I was 17 and Rupp used to own the track. On a cool night its as fast as any track around especially when its prepped right. My 89 turbo T/A will run 11.6 at 116 at MIR in Maryland and at Moroso it would run 11.7 at 115 on a 70's Florida night on average.

Not to take anything away from Speeds excellent driving and Viper record, but I think this also proves a point Speed debated himself vigorously in one of his earlier posts about a Z06's performance. I think if you do the math you will see the Z06 stock makes more rwhp and weighs hundreds of pounds less than a GEN 3 probably explaining why that Z06 Speed was racing was running him down so hard as he said, and if a GEN 3 is capable of 11.5's stock you can safely assume low 11's in the 126 to 128 range for a Z06 is not that difficult with a capable driver. Speed there is a lot of Z06 forum members that race at PBIR and I bet if you ask them, one of them might let you make a pass in their car and then you can decide for yourself if there as fast as me and Nineball stated in our earlier debate, and hell you might set a record in that too!

 

[Nine Ball]

Congrats! I'd also like to see what you could do in a stock Z06. With enough practice, I'd bet low 11s no problem. Your Viper times are damn good for runflat tires! Especially the 60'.

Tony

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Forget a z06 I want to see what he can do in a stock gen 4. Someone has to live near by with one

 

[Newport Viper]

Congrats nice BLAST!

 

[vipeuup]

Forget a z06 I want to see what he can do in a stock gen 4. Someone has to live near by with one

Yup thats right

 

[Hamrhead]

Speed -

Excellent ET's! Congrats!


Did you Short-Shift 2nd gear?



And BTW, I hate you for being able to race pretty much year-round.

 

[SilveRT8]

Forget a z06 I want to see what he can do in a stock gen 4. Someone has to live near by with one

YES! but also what he can do with his stock car on slicks
Claude

 

[Speedfreak]

He had my GEN 3 beat a long time ago with his last record, I wasn't even close to that time in my GEN 3, I only took it to the track once before I sold it but I wasn't close to that, theres always some one faster! The fastest I have ever been in an old Viper stock is 11.59 at 123 in my old 2001 ACR so he beat that too! When your dialed in your dialed in, good job! Your the man! I am glad to see someone turn a good time in a GEN 3 because I didn't think they had it in them? I guess all they really needed was a good driver that was willing to put in the time.

And Florida is not one of the slowest places to race, I grew up in Jupiter and have a home their now and have raced Moroso literally hundreds of times going all the way back to 1979 when I was 17 and Rupp used to own the track. On a cool night its as fast as any track around especially when its prepped right. My 89 turbo T/A will run 11.6 at 116 at MIR in Maryland and at Moroso it would run 11.7 at 115 on a 70's Florida night on average.

Not to take anything away from Speeds excellent driving and Viper record, but I think this also proves a point Speed debated himself vigorously in one of his earlier posts about a Z06's performance. I think if you do the math you will see the Z06 stock makes more rwhp and weighs hundreds of pounds less than a GEN 3 probably explaining why that Z06 Speed was racing was running him down so hard as he said, and if a GEN 3 is capable of 11.5's stock you can safely assume low 11's in the 126 to 128 range for a Z06 is not that difficult with a capable driver. Speed there is a lot of Z06 forum members that race at PBIR and I bet if you ask them, one of them might let you make a pass in their car and then you can decide for yourself if there as fast as me and Nineball stated in our earlier debate, and hell you might set a record in that too!

Jamie makes a good point here. I think quite a while back on a different thread I said that the average, and I emphasize average, stock Z06 and driver will run and 11.5-11.8 and the average stock Gen 3 driver will run and 11.9-12.2. I still stand by that. The Z06 DOES have some inherent advantages over a Viper in a quarter mile race, namely, less weight, better gearing, and better stock traction. It also has a higher redline and less torque. All of these things help in A STOCK TO STOCK matchup. Now, if we take a great driver in a stock Z06 it WILL turn a low 11 or even a very high 10. This is fact. What has been missing up to now is what will a Gen III do with great driving and the car run to its full potential. I believe that number is probably a high 11.3 to low 11.4 with great weather. If I had made last nights run with -1000 DA weather all things being equal I would have turned an 11.4 and maybe, and I emphasize maybe, a high 11.3. But when that is all said and done it is still 3-4 tenths behind a similarly run z06. In other words if Jamie and I line up in negative 1000 DA weather and he is driving his Z and I am in my Viper, he is going to beat me EVERY TIME by 3 tenths.

But here is what every one keeps missing. These matchups of the driver elite are not what goes on at the track on a typical night. And they virtually never happen with stock to stock cars anymore. As I have also stated I have not seen one remotely appearing stock Z06 at my track turn better than 11.31. I saw one with drag radials and nitrous go 10.98 at 133. Most of what I have seen is 11.40-11.70 on modified cars with traction improvments. Now I will make a prediction. I believe my Gen III with the same DRs these guys are running will put damn near every one of these guys on the trailer. Why? Because NOW we have left the stock category and are starting to cater to the the VIPERs strengths which is massive torque. This is what moves the car and it is NEVER fully utilized in the stock configuration because of traction problems. It gets better. The farther we get away from a stock to stock matchup the better the Viper will fare because the horsepower and torque gained BY THE SAME mods made to a Viper start to leave the Z in the dust. That is why I will bet you money that a Viper Gen III with DRs, headers and exhaust, computer tune, K&N, gears, throttle body, etc. will beat handily a similarly modifed Z. Now when the two "Average" drivers go at it again, the tide has turned and it will be tilting Viper.

So the moral here is if you want to beat Zs or anybody else FOCUS on making mods to the car that favoer the VIPER which are allowing full traction of the power plant, gear it more appropriately, and shed weight (two piece rotors, ACR wheels, battery, aluminum flywheel, etc.) and you will be very surprised how it peforms. Unfortunatley, what everybody does is add some more horsepower and all that does is make it all worse and give the edge to the Z. Without improved traction, improved horsepower is going to pay very weak rewards.

 

[Speedfreak]

Congrats! I'd also like to see what you could do in a stock Z06. With enough practice, I'd bet low 11s no problem. Your Viper times are damn good for runflat tires! Especially the 60'.

Tony

Nine, I still want a go at the Z too. Will probably just rent one though as I would feel really bad if I messed up someone elses car. If I break it and its a rental, oh well! LOL. Plus then I know I'll get a stocker and can draw some accurate conclusions.

 

[Speedfreak]

Speed -

Excellent ET's! Congrats!


Did you Short-Shift 2nd gear?



And BTW, I hate you for being able to race pretty much year-round.

No short shift on second. I think that will help with gears and stock tires but with the stock gear I don't think so. An interesting point here, though, is that I have done this quick granny shift on 1-2 enough now that I do it reflexively without having to think about it any more. Then power shift the rest. I think that has helped my times the last couple of times out. Lesson learned, PRACTICE what you intend to do on the strip until it becomes second nature.

 

[Speedfreak]

Thanks to everyone for all the congratulations. I really appreciate it. I have kind of been the lone ranger out there for all this and its nice to know that people are as excited about breaking new ground. At the track its just me jumping up and down in the pits and everyone looking at me like - what the hell is he so excited about.

I really would like a go at a Gen IV. Ray white has one he has modded with gears, computer and exhaust and says he will be going to the track soon. Maybe I can talk him into a pass or two. But I suspect that 100 extra HP is quite a different ride and a whole different set of problems.

 

[Speedfreak]

YES! but also what he can do with his stock car on slicks
Claude

This and gears are my next tests!!!!!

 

[black mamba1]

I have been saying for two years the main problem with the Vipers is traction. That is why we have basic stock Gen 3's wheel-hopping and losing a half a second or more in the first 60'. And the shift from 1-2 is really another problem. That is also why 700 rwhp, 800 rwhp, and 900+rwhp Vipers are still running 11.7+ times in the 1/4 mile. That is why EVERY SINGLE CAR over 500 hp has traction aids from AWD like the Lambo and GTR to suspension aids like the Zr1 to traction control like practically all of them, except the Viper. We Viper guys must depend solely on talent to keep up with those aided by computers.

For us relatively newcomers to the 1/4 mile circuit, please define the following:

1. What is "short shifting".
2. What is "Power shifting".
3. What is negative 1000 DA

 

[1BADGTS]

And the TRACTION issue is the EXACT REASON that Gen 4s trap at or near 130 and no one has EVER put one in the tens yet.We have come to the point with these cars that throwing more horsepower at the problem on stock tires really shows diminshing returns.Cars like the 599 Ferarri out accelerate Gen 4s not because they have better power to weight ratios (they dont ) but because they have technological advantages that allow them to hook up.

 

[1BADGTS]

Thanks to everyone for all the congratulations. I really appreciate it. I have kind of been the lone ranger out there for all this and its nice to know that people are as excited about breaking new ground. At the track its just me jumping up and down in the pits and everyone looking at me like - what the hell is he so excited about.

I really would like a go at a Gen IV. Ray white has one he has modded with gears, computer and exhaust and says he will be going to the track soon. Maybe I can talk him into a pass or two. But I suspect that 100 extra HP is quite a different ride and a whole different set of problems.

Exactly the ideal situation for you would be to run a Gen 4 during a private track Rental .Not only can you take your time and ice the manifold between runs but in alot of private rentals you can ask for extra trap prep (MORE VHT ).The Vht is the real factor here on stock tires.

 

[Speedfreak]

I have been saying for two years the main problem with the Vipers is traction. That is why we have basic stock Gen 3's wheel-hopping and losing a half a second or more in the first 60'. And the shift from 1-2 is really another problem. That is also why 700 rwhp, 800 rwhp, and 900+rwhp Vipers are still running 11.7+ times in the 1/4 mile. That is why EVERY SINGLE CAR over 500 hp has traction aids from AWD like the Lambo and GTR to suspension aids like the Zr1 to traction control like practically all of them, except the Viper. We Viper guys must depend solely on talent to keep up with those aided by computers.

For us relatively newcomers to the 1/4 mile circuit, please define the following:

1. What is "short shifting".
2. What is "Power shifting".
3. What is negative 1000 DA

You are exactly right and what I don't understand is why Viper owners continue to put themselves at this disadvantage when virtually every z06 I see has DRs ( AND THEY DON'T NEED THEM HALF AS BAD AS WE DO). I just don't get it. Maybe when I put a set on mine and turn some unexpected times with a stock motor it will help drive the point home. Based on the times I am seeing at my track WITH MODDED Zs I should beat most of them and I haven't touched my motor and THEY have!!!!

Short shifting is where you shift into the next gear somewhere before redline as would be the normal case. This is usually done where the engine is so torquey that traction at a full redline shift simply blows rubber everywhere. So instead of shifting at 5800-6000 in the 1-2, try at 5500, then 5250, then 5000 with each run and see how the car reacts. Leave all other shifts at redline if traction is not a problem. This will trade optimum power for better traction and hopefully a quicker e.t.

Powershifting is where you do not let your foot off the gas to shift. You just clutch it and that its. Pedal to the medal then when it gets near redline depress the clutch quickly and grab the next gear. You will see the tack jump (flash) about 300 RPM when you do this and then reduce to the normal RPM of the next gear. That is why it must be fast or you are essentially running the engine wide open in neutral. But it is the fastest form of stick shifting and plants tremendous power to ground on the release into the next gear.

1000 negative DA - refers to density altitude of the air at the track. This is a little hard to understand. I am a private pilot also and we get this drilled into our heads for that but the average guys never heard of it. What they consider sea level air density, which would be a 0 density altitude is 59 degrees, 29.92 barometric pressure and 40% humidity. Anything higher or lower than these values is considered positive DA (BAD FOR PERFORMANCE) or negative DA (great for performance). Example - if it is 85 degress, humid and 29.90 barometric the DA would be the equivalent of 2000 feet elevation. In other words that is what the engine sees in terms of usable oxygen in the air because it is thinned from the heat and humidity (which is water) which displaces some oxygen also. That is why your car runs like crap up in the mountains with much less power. By contrast, Negative DA means the air IS DENSER than what would be at the normal sea level temp measured above. A -1000 DA means it is the equivalent of the air density if you WENT 1000 feet below sea level. Oh yeah, the car acts like it has a second motor because the oxygen content and density of the air is very high and very dry and barometric pressure (the downward force on the air) is also above normal. Example 45 degrees, 20% humidity, 30.20 barometric. This makes the car SEE air much more oxygen rich than normal (even though we are still at sea level). The computer compensates by adding more fuel and you feel lots of extra HP. So to make those record passes you want low temperatures, high barometric pressure and low humidity.
Hope this helps.

 

[FikseGTS]

We met at your first outing at the track, I had the red GT-R, I also took my ACR out there and ran 11.6 @ 125 (stock) with a bog off the line, the car was a real PIA to get out of the hole...

I have the belanger system on it's way to me, as soon as it's installed I'll meet you up there....

Thanks to everyone for all the congratulations. I really appreciate it. I have kind of been the lone ranger out there for all this and its nice to know that people are as excited about breaking new ground. At the track its just me jumping up and down in the pits and everyone looking at me like - what the hell is he so excited about.

I really would like a go at a Gen IV. Ray white has one he has modded with gears, computer and exhaust and says he will be going to the track soon. Maybe I can talk him into a pass or two. But I suspect that 100 extra HP is quite a different ride and a whole different set of problems.

 

[1BADGTS]

ITS ALL in the driver.

 

[1BADGTS]

Guys remember one thing stock is stock ,no gears, DR, Ballangers ,Mopar pcms ect.If someone is to try to get a GEN 4 STOCK into the tens the car can not have ANY of the above.