My Viper was STOLEN.

aries

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If they weren't stealing stuff, they would still be alive. I bet that if there were young children in the house or an elderly couple, and they had the crowbar, things could have turned ugly real fast. It's simple, don't break the law, and you don't have to worry about being shot in the back..............

Damn right!! I'm so sick of criminals getting the benifit of the doubt. Hard working, law abiding citizens always get the short end of the stick in our justice system. Just as Chris1 put it, if they wern't breaking the law, they'd still be breathing. I don't hold an ounce of pity or sympathy toward those two. What right do they have to just steal from someone who wakes up everyday and works hard to afford themselves things only to have some lazy, low-life- P.O.S, just take it? The answer is none!!! Criminals want to live that life, that's fine, that's their choice, but they better be prepared for that life to end very quick because of their actions.

I guarantee you that criminals in Texas are gonna think twice about breaking into someones house, knowing that they could be gunned down. Bravo Joe Horn, BRAVO!!!!
 

big-n-italian

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i agree with you guys. the problem wasnt joe horn, the problem here is . . . . . two guys decided to break the law and steal someones stuff. THATS the problem. if these two guys hadnt decided to break the law and steal someones stuff in the first place, there wouldnt have been a problem.
 

Dom426h

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Re: Pictures are posted of my wrecked/stolen viper.

2435d1227557832-my-viper-stolen-100_0528.jpg


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2437d1227557910-my-viper-stolen-100_0530.jpg
 

V10SpeedLuvr

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Joe Horn needs to go to jail for taking the lives of two humans because they took some jewelry. That was a very disturbing video...He ran outside and shot two people in the BACK with a shotgun, and doesnt go to jail. There somthing very wrong with that.

Attitudes like yours is why the world has gone to hell. There is NOTHING wrong with what happened. Whats sad is, it doesn't happen enough. If my home is ever burglarized (again), I hope my neighbor kills the thieves. Or let me come home and I'll do it. I wish people would quit whining about criminal's rights and realize the ONLY right a criminal should have is to be killed and have their body dumped in a landfill where they belong. Trash belongs with trash.
 

ViperGTS

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Justice?
Big, big question mark.

Here, we have a big discussion for days in the news because one of the top terrorists of the 1970/1980s will become free after 26 years in jail.

He was found guilty of murdering 9 people - innocent people - sentenced to "5 (or 6?) times lifetime" in jail.

The victims and the families of the victims are shocked like most others here.
 
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Regarding the Joe Horn incident, sorry to hear someone lost their life, and yes it could have been one of our kids, but if they would have never been on the property in the first place, then it would have NEVER happened to them.

In this economy, crime will pick up tremendously.

If this was your home, you would feel bitterly violated, and the BAD guys could just as easily killed the occupants, yes, family members and your attitude would change just a bit.

This case was unique, but why did the events of that day happen? Because someone made a bad decision that cost them their life.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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Joe Horn needs to go to jail for taking the lives of two humans because they took some jewelry. That was a very disturbing video...He ran outside and shot two people in the BACK with a shotgun, and doesnt go to jail. There somthing very wrong with that.

Joe Horn risked his life to protect others and is a hero for doing so. Anyone like those two criminals who have the balls to break into a home and steal other's belongings is also very capable of committing much more dangerous acts of crime. Joe Horn saved hundreds of people from being victims of those two scumbags. There should be an annual parade for folks like Joe Horn.
 

treed

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Re: Pictures are posted of my wrecked/stolen viper.

How did he (unfortunately) live through this crash? That would have been poetic justice, no? Sorry for your loss, and good luck with the insurance!
 

Fatboy 18

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Attitudes like yours is why the world has gone to hell. There is NOTHING wrong with what happened. Whats sad is, it doesn't happen enough. If my home is ever burglarized (again), I hope my neighbor kills the thieves. Or let me come home and I'll do it. I wish people would quit whining about criminal's rights and realize the ONLY right a criminal should have is to be killed and have their body dumped in a landfill where they belong. Trash belongs with trash.
Totally aggree, Well said Chad :headbang:

:uk:
 

AviP

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Always park another car in front of your Viper. It is a deterrent. I park my Ram right across the garage door. There is always the possibility of both cars being stolen. Also, if I get undue attention such as another car following me, I try to evade them before parking it.
 

PDCjonny

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Joe Horn needs to go to jail for taking the lives of two humans because they took some jewelry. That was a very disturbing video...He ran outside and shot two people in the BACK with a shotgun, and doesnt go to jail. There somthing very wrong with that.

Not to mention you have the facts wrong, Mary.
 

GTSRboy2000

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You guys are crazy. Two people dead as a payback for stolen jewelry...In my head, id only shoot and kill someone if they were 1.) in my house and 2.) refused to get out when i told them to. Jow Horn, went OUTSIDE, and shot them as they were running AWAY (ever heard the term stabbed in the back), as a result of taking SOMEONE ELSE'S jewelry. I hate to say it, but he wouldnt have shot them if they were not black..just some crazy old guy in texas who is scared of black guys and shot them without thinking. If he had stayed in his house the cops would have gotten there, they were only 15 seconds behind him. They never threated Joe's life, hes the one who went outside, and even then they ran from him.

I always stir up trouble on forums.
 

Fatboy 18

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You guys are crazy. Two people dead as a payback for stolen jewelry...In my head, id only shoot and kill someone if they were 1.) in my house and 2.) refused to get out when i told them to. Jow Horn, went OUTSIDE, and shot them as they were running AWAY (ever heard the term stabbed in the back), as a result of taking SOMEONE ELSE'S jewelry. I hate to say it, but he wouldnt have shot them if they were not black..just some crazy old guy in texas who is scared of black guys and shot them without thinking. If he had stayed in his house the cops would have gotten there, they were only 15 seconds behind him. They never threated Joe's life, hes the one who went outside, and even then they ran from him.

I always stir up trouble on forums.
You would fit in very well over here in England, We let most burglars off with a pat on the back as our prisons are full and they wont build any more because the Countrys broke! :(, However I would rather have TEXAS LAW :evilmad: Sorry to say sometimes im not proud of my country :(
 

pe5787

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Ridiculous.

You guys are crazy. Two people dead as a payback for stolen jewelry...In my head, id only shoot and kill someone if they were 1.) in my house and 2.) refused to get out when i told them to. Jow Horn, went OUTSIDE, and shot them as they were running AWAY (ever heard the term stabbed in the back), as a result of taking SOMEONE ELSE'S jewelry. I hate to say it, but he wouldnt have shot them if they were not black..just some crazy old guy in texas who is scared of black guys and shot them without thinking. If he had stayed in his house the cops would have gotten there, they were only 15 seconds behind him. They never threated Joe's life, hes the one who went outside, and even then they ran from him.

I always stir up trouble on forums.
 

V10SpeedLuvr

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You guys are crazy. Two people dead as a payback for stolen jewelry...In my head, id only shoot and kill someone if they were 1.) in my house and 2.) refused to get out when i told them to. Jow Horn, went OUTSIDE, and shot them as they were running AWAY (ever heard the term stabbed in the back), as a result of taking SOMEONE ELSE'S jewelry. I hate to say it, but he wouldnt have shot them if they were not black..just some crazy old guy in texas who is scared of black guys and shot them without thinking. If he had stayed in his house the cops would have gotten there, they were only 15 seconds behind him. They never threated Joe's life, hes the one who went outside, and even then they ran from him.

I always stir up trouble on forums.

If you come on a website where the majority of the people have a fair amount of $$ and have worked very hard for it and expect us to give a rat's ass that some thuggs caught a bullet in their back (or wherever he shot them) and died from it, you're not gonna have many (if any) people agree with you. Joe is a HERO. I think whether they were white or black, he would've done what he did (and SHOULD'VE done), and thats funeralize them. Like I said earlier, if someone steals from me and someone kills them, I'll shake that person's hand, thank them, give them a reward and offer to reimburse them for the cost of the bullets. Whether you steal the Viper or the CD player out of the Viper, your life will be in danger if caught. If you wanna take that risk, by all means, do what you do.

Sorry to say sometimes im not proud of my country :(

Sadly, happy situations like Joe Horn stopping 2 crooks and not being punished for it is the exception in America as well. The American "justice" system is nothing to be proud of the way it is these days.
 

aries

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You guys are crazy. Two people dead as a payback for stolen jewelry...In my head, id only shoot and kill someone if they were 1.) in my house and 2.) refused to get out when i told them to. Jow Horn, went OUTSIDE, and shot them as they were running AWAY (ever heard the term stabbed in the back), as a result of taking SOMEONE ELSE'S jewelry. I hate to say it, but he wouldnt have shot them if they were not black..just some crazy old guy in texas who is scared of black guys and shot them without thinking. If he had stayed in his house the cops would have gotten there, they were only 15 seconds behind him. They never threated Joe's life, hes the one who went outside, and even then they ran from him.

I always stir up trouble on forums.

Ding, ding, ding......and now he pulls the "race card". Joe Horn only shot them cause they were black? That's one of the most ignorant, racist statement I've heard. He shot them cause they were robbing his neighbor, plain and simple. And yes he was protecting his neighbors property, so what? I hope you're never getting mugged and people passing by have your piss-poor, liberal attitude of well it's not my problem and let you get a beating. Like was mentioned before in this thread, people like you are the reason this country is in moral decline.
 

Shelby3

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You guys are crazy. Two people dead as a payback for stolen jewelry...In my head, id only shoot and kill someone if they were 1.) in my house and 2.) refused to get out when i told them to. Jow Horn, went OUTSIDE, and shot them as they were running AWAY (ever heard the term stabbed in the back), as a result of taking SOMEONE ELSE'S jewelry. I hate to say it, but he wouldnt have shot them if they were not black..just some crazy old guy in texas who is scared of black guys and shot them without thinking. If he had stayed in his house the cops would have gotten there, they were only 15 seconds behind him. They never threated Joe's life, hes the one who went outside, and even then they ran from him.

I always stir up trouble on forums.

You make a good point. I live in Texas and would never shoot someone in the back like that. I would whistle, then shout....."hey you...... want some free cigarettes?" and shoot them in the face as they spun around.
 

CitySnake

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This is one of those threads which can become inappropriate in a NY minute. I'm not suggesting the discussion is inappropriate...yet, but it IS moving somewhat off-topic. Let's just try to maintain things as a discussion so that I don't get a mid-afternoon call to moderate. It always wakes me up at work!
 

kcobean

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Moderator Kelly says: Please keep this thread civil and on topic guys. It's supposed to be about a Viper being stolen, not about Joe Horn.

Viper-Guy and CCW Permit Holder Kelly says: In the state of Virginia, Joe Horn would have gone to jail for a very long time. Here, using deadly force (or even the presentation of deadly force) is only authorized when you are genuinely in fear for your life or well-being, or for that of someone around you. We have a stand-your-ground law here, which means we're not obligated to retreat if possible before resorting to shooting. But the fact that he purposefully placed himself in a situation where he was "forced" to shoot in self-defense would have been the nail in his coffin.

For you guys who think the shooting was justified, let me ask you this...if theft of property is punishable by death, what's the cut-off? Public urination? J-walking? Seriously, where do you draw the line at what can be reasonably met with deadly force, particularly by someone whom the crime isn't being committed against? I'm with the folks who say the shooting was unjustified and it gives the anti-gunners fodder to say 'look at how trigger happy gun owners are'. He should have followed police instructions and stayed in his house, provided them with a description and let them handle the situation. Instead, he went vigilante and got VERY lucky that he lives in Texas. If he were just about anywhere else, he'd be doing time for manslaughter at the least. I'm not saying the bad-guys weren't rolling the dice. They got what they got, but you should be more upset at general failure of the penal system than you are supportive of private citizens taking on the role of judge, jury and executioner for a non-violent crime.
 

V10SpeedLuvr

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They got what they got, but you should be more upset at general failure of the penal system than you are supportive of private citizens taking on the role of judge, jury and executioner for a non-violent crime.


For me, thats 1 in the same. Our "justice" system being such a joke is why I do support vigilante justice. Knowing that the "justice" system is going to be a FAILURE 9.5 times out of 10, makes it very very hard to not want to see people handle the justice theirselves. At least that way, justice does get served. I don't care if its Judge Joe Brown or citizen Joe Horn dealing out the justice as long as justice is administered. The worst thing you can possibly get in a court is the death penalty. On the off-chance you are convicted and are sentenced to the death penalty, thats followed by 20+ YEARS on death row while you wait on appeals and get 3 meals a day before you die peacefully in your sleep due to lethal injection. When the Joe Horn's take care of justice, the guilty don't even make it home for dinner.
 

Bobpantax

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Hi. I am curious. How many of the posters who said it was OK to shoot the two fleeing suspects in the back would agree with doing same if one of the suspects was their son and was only carrying out a fraternity prank? Second question. How many of you have actually taken another life? I agree with Bean although public urination is certainly a severe violation of the penal code. LQ.
 

aries

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Moderator Kelly says: Please keep this thread civil and on topic guys. It's supposed to be about a Viper being stolen, not about Joe Horn.

Viper-Guy and CCW Permit Holder Kelly says: In the state of Virginia, Joe Horn would have gone to jail for a very long time. Here, using deadly force (or even the presentation of deadly force) is only authorized when you are genuinely in fear for your life or well-being, or for that of someone around you. We have a stand-your-ground law here, which means we're not obligated to retreat if possible before resorting to shooting. But the fact that he purposefully placed himself in a situation where he was "forced" to shoot in self-defense would have been the nail in his coffin.

For you guys who think the shooting was justified, let me ask you this...if theft of property is punishable by death, what's the cut-off? Public urination? J-walking? Seriously, where do you draw the line at what can be reasonably met with deadly force, particularly by someone whom the crime isn't being committed against? I'm with the folks who say the shooting was unjustified and it gives the anti-gunners fodder to say 'look at how trigger happy gun owners are'. He should have followed police instructions and stayed in his house, provided them with a description and let them handle the situation. Instead, he went vigilante and got VERY lucky that he lives in Texas. If he were just about anywhere else, he'd be doing time for manslaughter at the least. I'm not saying the bad-guys weren't rolling the dice. They got what they got, but you should be more upset at general failure of the penal system than you are supportive of private citizens taking on the role of judge, jury and executioner for a non-violent crime.

And there in lies the problem. Everyday, law abiding citizens can no longer rely on law enforcement or the justice system to punish these people. How many times have criminals got off with a slap on the wrist while the victim is left with the burden of the crime. I guarantee you GTSR1 will not get what his car was worth from the insurance company, have to pay a deductable, have to pay depretiation, not get anything for the aftermarket parts and mods, not to mention all the time and labor costs to install all of them. So he is going to be burden with all that cost just because some P.O.S., lazy, waste of carbon, does not work as hard to afford himself a car like GTSR1's and feels he should just take it, and what does the law do, basically nothing. So law enforcement and the courts have driven us noble, upstanding citizens to take matters into our own hands. Whether it be protecting our lives or our property that we work so hard to earn. I'm sick and tired of the criminals having all the rights, criminals having no reason to fear their crimal acts. If more people were given the rights that Texas gives their people, it would give the criminals something to think about and a moment of pause to think, hmmm I may lose my life commiting this crime, is it worth it?
 

eucharistos

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thanks to all who pointed out the bleeding hearted nature of the joe horn bashing post

Viper-Guy and CCW Permit Holder Kelly says: In the state of Virginia, Joe Horn would have gone to jail for a very long time. Here, using deadly force (or even the presentation of deadly force) is only authorized when you are genuinely in fear for your life or well-being, or for that of someone around you.

respectfully (the following will probably read in an unintended hard tone, no offense intended), kcobean, this is a texas issue. the good people of texas have determined the law in this case

.....even the presentation of deadly force put people at risk of jail???:dunno:

For you guys who think the shooting was justified, let me ask you this...if theft of property is punishable by death,

the point is not the punishment for the theft of property, but at issue is the protection of property

what's the cut-off? Public urination? J-walking? Seriously, where do you draw the line at what can be reasonably met with deadly force, particularly by someone whom the crime isn't being committed against?

we had quite a trek to get to this slippery slope :)

I'm with the folks who say the shooting was unjustified and it gives the anti-gunners fodder to say 'look at how trigger happy gun owners are'. He should have followed police instructions and stayed in his house, provided them with a description and let them handle the situation. Instead, he went vigilante and got VERY lucky that he lives in Texas.

had he done what you suggest, the anit-gunners would have said, "see he had a gun but it didn't stop the crime so guns are not needed by the public"

again the law is not to allow vigilantism, but the protection of property

They got what they got, but you should be more upset at general failure of the penal system

agree, but then do what in their absence? agree to be passive victims?

shalom
 

AFL in NJ

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I've heard that Texas still has a "shoot first ask questions later" law on the books from the old west days....the key is that it is only after dark, where long ago that made sense, today we have electricity in barns, sheds, our yards, etc.

I like to believe that we can protect our property using reasonable force. If it were my Viper stolen, I would certainly be "adding" to the sentence of the convict what I felt was a sufficient punishment on top of what the law allowed if I felt justice wasn't served. Would some pitty the poor soul who steals from me? Sure. Would some feel that meting out some extra justice made things even...sure.

I've often thought of simply having a 20 foot hole drilled in my property and filling it with steel re-inforced conrete with a big loop at the top and simply chaining my cars to this immovable anchor or just chaining my cars to the lift in my garage....who knows if even that would work.

Regards,
Aaron
 

kcobean

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thanks to all who pointed out the bleeding hearted nature of the joe horn bashing post
No bleeding heart here. I do believe that the punishment should fit the crime. But in this country, it's to be decided on by a jury of your peers, not a jury of your victims. You guys are quick to throw away constitutional rights in the name of Justice. And speaking of justice, someone mentioned the biblical "eye for an eye" earlier in this thread. Is anyone here going to argue that death was "eye for an eye" for burglary?


respectfully (the following will probably read in an unintended hard tone, no offense intended), kcobean, this is a texas issue. the good people of texas have determined the law in this case
I agree with you...states rights are very important, and Texas apparently has structured the gun laws in such a way that purposefully inserting yourself into a situation and shooting a fleeing, unarmed suspect in the commission of what is probably a misdemeanor non-violent crime while at the same time disobeying the command of a law-enforcement officer is acceptable. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.

.....even the presentation of deadly force put people at risk of jail???:dunno:
probably not jail, but depending on circumstance (if deemed unjustified) carries a misdemeanor charge and can result in revocation of a CCW permit, etc. Again..unjustified presentation...i.e. you can't just walk down the street waving a gun around, you can't point a gun at someone in a road-rage confrontation, etc. It's called responsible gun ownership.


the point is not the punishment for the theft of property, but at issue is the protection of property
Give me a break. So let me ask you this...if Joe Horn can play judge, jury and executioner, what do you think a REAL jury of his peers would have handed down as a sentence in a court of law? Before you remind me what a joke our penal system is, remember that these are citizens issuing a punishment..just like Joe Horn, but without the gun. What's the worst they can do?


we had quite a trek to get to this slippery slope :)
Not slippery at all..I'm asking a legitimate question. If we as a people have a right to decide on the spot whether someone should die for a crime or not (which is exactly what Joe Horn did), what's the cutoff? I notice you didn't answer, but instead chose to get snide.

had he done what you suggest, the anit-gunners would have said, "see he had a gun but it didn't stop the crime so guns are not needed by the public"
Really? So the only way to responsibly justify gun ownership is to run out into a situation from a position where you weren't in danger and start blasting away at people? I think you're getting a little ridiculous in your arguments here.

[quote}
again the law is not to allow vigilantism, but the protection of property [/quote]A life is a life. If your life is worth more than your TV, than a robbers life is worth more than your neighbors jewelry. And don't assume that because I'm against what he did that I'm a limp-wristed bleeding heart liberal. I'm for the death penalty and severe punishment for crime as much as the next guy. I just think that he went farther than a citizen should go in protecting an inanimate object.


agree, but then do what in their absence? agree to be passive victims?
shalom
You prove my point...JOE WAS NOT THE VICTIM. If his neighbor was being attacked, then I'd happily stand next to him and put a few rounds in the bad guys, but this was a non-violent crime.

For the record, I agree with you that the penal system would likely not have dealt as severely with these thugs as it should...not even close. We NEED to get our penal system to a state where would-be criminals are scared to death of it. But even in the worst of cases....Burglary is not a crime befitting the death penalty, not by Joe Horn, not by the courts.
 

Shelby3

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I have a series on randomly dispersed punji pits throughout my property. Except for that part time meter reader, I never had to clean one out.
 

eucharistos

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No bleeding heart here. I do believe that the punishment should fit the crime. But in this country, it's to be decided on by a jury of your peers, not a jury of your victims. You guys are quick to throw away constitutional rights in the name of Justice. And speaking of justice, someone mentioned the biblical "eye for an eye" earlier in this thread. Is anyone here going to argue that death was "eye for an eye" for burglary?


sorry if it was not clearer, i tried to separate your post from GTSRboy2000's, i was referring to his as bleeding heart


I agree with you...states rights are very important, and Texas apparently has structured the gun laws in such a way that purposefully inserting yourself into a situation and shooting a fleeing, unarmed suspect in the commission of what is probably a misdemeanor non-violent crime while at the same time disobeying the command of a law-enforcement officer is acceptable. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.


that is not the intent of the law as i understand it. (i just re-read the statute) the purpose is to prevent the loss of property. once the perp leaves the vicinity, what are the odds of recovering, esp small fungible valuables? ...so the cops arrive and say sorry. as i posted before, someone took a new $400 blower off the top shelf in my garage and walked right past my viper out the door with his 5-finger discount. called the cops, they "took a report".....i will never see anything of it. what should i have done if i heard him in the garage? (i'm not saying shoot him on the spot), but anyone brazen enough to do that is defacto more dangerous and would have been met by an armed homeowner.


probably not jail, but depending on circumstance (if deemed unjustified) carries a misdemeanor charge and can result in revocation of a CCW permit, etc. Again..unjustified presentation...i.e. you can't just walk down the street waving a gun around, you can't point a gun at someone in a road-rage confrontation, etc. It's called responsible gun ownership.

ok, same here


Give me a break. So let me ask you this...if Joe Horn can play judge, jury and executioner, what do you think a REAL jury of his peers would have handed down as a sentence in a court of law?


i agree with you if that is what he did, again it was determined he followed the intent of the law


Before you remind me what a joke our penal system is, remember that these are citizens issuing a punishment..just like Joe Horn, but without the gun. What's the worst they can do?


i am one of the dumb ones that couldn't get out of jury duty....it taught me that especially if you are guilty demand a trial by jury

Not slippery at all..I'm asking a legitimate question. If we as a people have a right to decide on the spot whether someone should die for a crime or not (which is exactly what Joe Horn did), what's the cutoff? I notice you didn't answer, but instead chose to get snide.

again, did not intend to be snide - i often fail at cute
i thought i addressed it with the protection of property issue v. vigilantism.


Really? So the only way to responsibly justify gun ownership is to run out into a situation from a position where you weren't in danger and start blasting away at people? I think you're getting a little ridiculous in your arguments here.


of course not, i didn't even imply such a thing


again the law is not to allow vigilantism, but the protection of property
A life is a life. If your life is worth more than your TV, than a robbers life is worth more than your neighbors jewelry. And don't assume that because I'm against what he did that I'm a limp-wristed bleeding heart liberal. I'm for the death penalty and severe punishment for crime as much as the next guy. I just think that he went farther than a citizen should go in protecting an inanimate object.


remember the old mantra: justice delayed is justice denied - this has lead to the criminal not fearing the governing authorities

never though you a limp-wristed bleeding heart

the protection is to civil society, where the criminals should fear the collective good of the people, not the other way around


You prove my point...JOE WAS NOT THE VICTIM. If his neighbor was being attacked, then I'd happily stand next to him and put a few rounds in the bad guys, but this was a non-violent crime.


criminals should know the laws and temperament of the people they chose to victimize

For the record, I agree with you..... [/QUOTE]


i think we agree on most of the issues here....don't know how it got this long winded.....i'm pooped (2 finger typer)


peace
 
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