need help for my '94 Viper.

toddt

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

Dr...

Wow, I'm not sure where to begin...First of all, I want you to be aware that, as you feared, your terminology did turn out to be confusing, and you used many terms that I frankly wasn't able to interpret.

Let me restate your woes as I understood them:

You own a 94 Viper that has had more and more difficulty starting, seeming to behave precisely as if flooded.

By this I take it to mean that you turn the key, the starter goes, the engine spins, but you get no ignition.

(may I ask, at this point, did it ever try to start? Did it "sputter" as if it were beginning to fire? Or was it absolutely dead, no sign of life?)

So you took it to an idiot mechanic who decided it wouldn't start because it needed a good steam cleaning.

Now you're spouting flames out of the side-pipes.

Here is my first Rx, Dr.: Get yourself a new mechanic today.

Here is my second Rx, Dr.: If you're going to drive an older car, it is important to know how to troubleshoot them to some extent yourself. So here's the first thing you always learn in mechanic school:

Golden Rule of Engine Troubleshooting:

There are 4 things necessary for an engine to run:
1) Spark or ignition
2) Fuel supply
3) Air supply
4) Compression

If you remove any one of these, your engine will not operate at all.

When your engine won't start, it is time for YOU to start through the list above, and find out what is missing.

The technique you use to troubleshoot each item can be simple, or it can be advanced. Here are some basics.

1) Spark
Pull a plug boot off one of your plugs (they pull right off, but you should grab the BOOT, not the wire, firmly).

Have a friend turn the engine over while you hold the boot about 1 cm away from something metal. (watch your fingers!)
If you do not see a spark, something is wrong.
2) Fuel
Crank your engine over for a minute.
Using a special tool, unscrew one of your spark plugs.
If the plug is not WET from fuel, you have a fuel delivery problem.
3) Air
Remove your air filter. Inspect the passage into your motor--ALL the way in. Make sure pressing the accelerator opens and closes the valve gating the air into the engine. (This is called a throttle body). It is important to inspect this visually. Look at the WIRES going to all the components attatched to the air passage. Be sure they are not filled with steam-cleaning water.
biggrin.gif

4) Compression
Compression only becomes a problem with SUPER old, SUPER worn engines. Testing is a bit of a pain, so you should probably skip if you have less than 200,000km or 100,000mi. on your car.

Finally, Dr., your engine has a fine computer. It can give you a ton of information on your car. I would suggest you invest in an inexpensive tool that reads out the codes from your computer. That may give you the hint you need...

Ciao
 

JonB

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

Hello Doc!

You almost certainly have a fuel pump pressure problem. Very common in your Viper. "Difficult to start, but starter OK"

The work your mechanic performed achieved NOTHING except to cause other problems. He has disconnected the computer, and caused the car to be running very rich on fuel, and perhaps other problems. This can also corrcet itself after a few drives.

To check the fuel pump problem, you must turn the KEY ON but not the starter. Listen for the Fuel Pump "BUZZZ" for 1.5 seconds. Then turn the key OFF. Do this 4 times in succession, for 5 seconds each. Then start the car. If it starts right up, you have diagnosed the Fuel Pump pressure regulator leakdown problem, inside the tank.

Live with it by "PRIMING" with the key .... or replace the pump.

ANTONIO CIOCCA! Viper guy who speaks Italian? Jump in here??
 

Vip-RT10

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

OK...I'm here! Time to translate...
dx = right side

Dr. Kurt...what i suggest is to write me an e-mail so we can exchange phone # so we can speak.

Then i will post on this thread to get a response.

Keep your eyes open board...he'll need good techs to diagnose this i think.
 

Vip-RT10

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

OK...I got an email from DR.Kurt....This is what happened.

1) The car does get the hiss sound, but it takes a long time to actually run. It turns for longer than it should, then it runs.

2) they replaced the "little motor that keeps idle"...a rip-off.

3) The car would idle and shoot out blue flames from the right side. They replaced the right side injectors and plugs and wires,and still does it.

I suggested to reset the throttle cables, check battery connection, get the codes that it may give, and flash the pc. Did this happen to anyone? Shooting flames out the side? Sounds like the right is really rich. Could it be a sensor problem? Any input to help out will be nice. Doug, Chuck?
 

Robert1994

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

New spark plugs and wires ? Runs rough ? Blue flames
out one side of the exhaust ? Hmmmmmmm ?
What's the firing order again ?
 

Vip-RT10

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

Good point Robert,maybe the firing order is out. I'll inform....What is the firing order anyways? 1,10,7,?
 

Vip-RT10

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

Tony, could you help me find the correct firing order and to which coil pack they go to? I searched 15000 threads and didn't find the goods. HELP!!!!
 

Makara

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

of that <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vip-RT10:
Tony, could you help me find the correct firing order and to which coil pack they go to? I searched 15000 threads and didn't find the goods. HELP!!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Finially I get to help! I had the same problem last easter and Rob Hook helped sent me this:

Makara,
I just did this yesterday on a '94 so I still have my notes handy. I noted where each wire went BEFORE removing them as I havn't purchased a shop manual yet either.

Anyway, I'm going to try to describe it as best I can...There are two coil packs, one on the driver's side and one on the passenger'side. The one on the driver's side has six wires going to it. There are two rows which run in a 45% slant from the upper right to the lower left. On this pack first and top row, going from RIGHT TO LEFT are #1, #8, #9. The second/bottom row, going from RIGHT TO LEFT is: #6, #2, #3.

On the passenger's side coil pack the plugs are lined up in a diamond shape with one plug on the first row, two in the second and one on the bottom. The top one is #4, the second row GOING FROM RIGHT TO LEFT is #10, and #7. The bottom one on this side is #5.

Hope that helps.
 

onerareviper

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

Nevermind.



<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by onerareviper on 05-09-2002 at 12:10 AM</font>
 

Vip-RT10

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

I relayed the info back to Dr.Kurt...He is checking it as of now. Also I was told some info....it could have skipped the timing or sucked a valve, making the detonation in the pipes with the unburnt fuel. Also it could be a gasket problem. My friend suggested to get a compression check on the engine. We will see shortly.
 

RobHook

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

What a mess! After writing that e-mail I later found that the easiest way to figure out the firing order is to just remove the cowl cover and look at the coil packs with a mirror to see what number is stamped next to each plug.

Anyway, I definitely recommend that the Italian owner find a new mechanic. Try to find a Viper tech who is trained by Chrysler. If you can't find that, get a Lamborghini tech to look at it. They may be easier to find than a Viper tech over there.

Also, if this thing really has a huge fuel pressure or injector problem he needs to be really careful, especially when doing the "turn it on 4 times" routine. If the system is firing the injector constantly it could fill a cylinder full of fuel and hydro-lock it. This would cause bent pushrods at the least and a bent or broken connecting rod or crank at the worst.

In other words, GET IT TO A VIPER TECH ASAP!

--Rob
 

Vip-RT10

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Re: need help for my \'94 Viper.

UPDATE.....
He ran the compression check and they are all within the tolerances of 180-220 ft/lbs. His new mechanic is a Lambo guy, so he may help. He suggested to do a fuel pressure check and check the manifolds and plenum for cracks. Is this problem a possible shifted cylinder sleeve or a gasket deal? Running out of options here...
 
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