need help with lifters/valves

[newredrt10]

let me give some history first. I bought the car with some modes on it. The dealer has stated they did all the installation on all the modes, but they will not give me the info on what was done. I had the dealer tec adjusted the valves because of noise. The tec said to bring the car in the night before because he has to adjust them with a cold motor. I then had the car dyno and it did not produced the power I was told it should. So I started talking to some people (like Larry thanks) and found out that the valve were to be adjusted with a hot motor, because it has hydraulic lifter. So I opened the valve covers and found that with a hot motor there was .003" clearance between valve and rocker. I then talked to people about the correct adjustment, zero lash then one full turn. So I started the adjustment, driver side seemed to adjust ok. passanger side was where I ran into problems. Four of the rockers were lose. Meaning that I couuld move the rockers back and forth with two fingers (no force needed). I tried running the motor to insure the lifter were pumped up, but it made no differance. I then adjusted the valves and ran the car. It seems better, I am not sure but my wife said it is a lot better.

Here is my questions. Is there a problem with the lifters or push rods. I known on a chevy big block valves that if the lifter act like this, they have a broken internal spring or do not have full stroke on the internal piston of the lifter, or the push rod maybe bent.
If the valves are now misadjusted what should I look for when running the car.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Sounds to me like larry said that they adjusted the valve lash on a cold motor,did not run it then recheck.Your best bet at this point is to re adjust the valve lash.At this point you would be better off spending a few $$ and have someone who is familar with this setup and have everything rechecked including proper geometry as improper valve lash or geometry can prove to be deadly in the longevity of your motor

 

[Jack B]

Are these T&D's and does "back and forth" mean up and down.

 

[newredrt10]

The movement is in the normal rock motion. Lifter to valve.
Like the lifter was colapsed, or pushrod was bent or too short.
Thanks

 

[newredrt10]

They are T&D

 

[Jack B]

It sounds as though you have air in the lifters. Try running the car two minutes, shut it off for five minutes, do that for several cycles. That might purge the air.

Find the point where the valve is seated, rotate the push rod between your fingers, tighten the adjuster till you feel resistance to the rotation. Turn the adjuster one full turn past this point.

Vipermed had a good suggestion, perhaps your geometry is off. Take a look at this link:

http://www.jimcookperformance.com/TechNotes/TN7ValvLash.html

Once again if you don't feel comfortable with this find a someone familiar with the T&D's.

 

[Larry Macedo]

While your checking the valvetrain and geometry, I'd suggest you check the baffles in the valve covers. If the rockers are shimmed too high, the rocker arm will make contact with the baffle. There will be marks on the baffles from the adjusters making contact. Call me again with your VIN, I think there is an error with the number I wrote down last time.

 

[Marc Lublin]

Probably fine, you probably pushed the oil out of them while you were turning the motor working on the others. Usually you get a bunch that are very easy to push in by hand. If there was a problem you would hear a nice lifter tick while the car was running.

 

[newredrt10]

thanks JackB/Vipermed

I read the info on the valve geometry. It is very much like I used on big block chevys. I will check to day. As for air in the lifter I did try running the car to pump up the oil pressure in the lifter. It was not until I adjusted the lash, did the lifter firm up. Is there a strong or light force spring in the lifter assembly pushing the lifter piston up. I ask this because there was no force needed to move the rocker before I adjusted the rocker. The more I look into this the more it appears that the lfters have problems. Could the dealer adjustment of the lifter as being a solid lifter (leaving clearance about .003) caused damaged to the hydraulic lifters.

thanks again Bill

 

[newredrt10]

well I worked on it today and have it running. There is less noise and more power (???). Will dyno Thursday to see. There are dents in the baffles but I do not thing it is hitting now. I will have it checked by Dan at McCann before i use it much.

Thanks for the info everyone.
Bill

 

[Jack B]

Relative to the dents in the baffles - A typical install would be to run the car for a few seconds with the valve covers loose. This would mark the interference points. You would then take a center punch and hammer to create clearance at those points. It appears they did such, or the rockers made their own clearance.

In you want to verify the push rod condition and adjustment take a look at the depth of the adjuster within the rocker. They should all be identical. The T&D instructions say to run the adjuster all the way up to lock, then, turn down one full turn. This is your starting point. This is also approximately where the push rod should be applying pressure to the rocker. They then say you should limit your adjustment up or down to one full turn.

If the rockers have the wrong shim or the wrong push rod (length) is used the wear pattern on the valve tip will be wider then with the correct geometry. It will also be off-set from the center of the valve. When the geometry or push rods are incorrect the broad wear pattern is also indicative of lost cam timing. In affect the excess rolling reduces vertical movement.

 

[Larry Macedo]

Be careful using a center punch, I've pulled motors apart where people have done this and it tears the baffle at the screws. The baffle is very thin metal and tears quite easily. I would recommend removing the baffle and making the clearance. Make sure you loctite the scews when reinstalling, you definitely don't want them to fall out and go through your motor. Glad your baby is running better, I'll run the number and get back to you.

 

[newredrt10]

Thanks for the add info. The adjustments are about the same, about even with the top of the nut. The dents appear to be old. They are filled with dark matterial like they have been there for awhile. Not sure I will still have it looked at as soon as I can.

Quess what is next. Was under the car to day to get some numbers off the block and found that the pan gasket is leaking not dripping on the floor but the dirty oil color that comes off on your fingers. The block is clean. Boy do I have my work cut out for me this winter.

 

[jp]

Hey, remember..it's fun working on your own Viper!

Cheers from Sweden!

Thanks for the add info. The adjustments are about the same, about even with the top of the nut. The dents appear to be old. They are filled with dark matterial like they have been there for awhile. Not sure I will still have it looked at as soon as I can.

Quess what is next. Was under the car to day to get some numbers off the block and found that the pan gasket is leaking not dripping on the floor but the dirty oil color that comes off on your fingers. The block is clean. Boy do I have my work cut out for me this winter.