Need some quick imput...on a 98 red GTS with 3K miles

[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JusSumFastGi:
You could drive it for $180 a month ... no. Sorry.

I don't see you getting more than you are paying now for the car in a few months with more miles, from a private party, with another owner.

Even if you get 55k you are still out tax, insurance, interest.

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Maybe, maybe not. Most likely not I know but its a gamble I know. I just talked to a dealer here in Ohio that sold a 97 with 8K miles for 58k. The deals are being done but yes most are not being done for that price.

And yes I can have this 180 month. (minus the difference I sell it for..which is the whole topic from the beginning and gas, oil change etc.) I think all I could hope for is a break even deal or maybe a loss of a grand or two. Maybe more. Again... a gamble.


Here how it is done:

I am taking an open line of credit on a property. Interest rate 4.5%

On an open line of credit you only have to pay interest. That interest is tax deductible.

59,600 is my total cost

Interest on 59,600 = 186.25
monthly insurance = 80.00
total = 266.25

tax deductible savings on 266.25 x 30% (using 30% as a conservative figure it may actually be higher) =79.87

Total monthly cost to have this car in my garage = 186.00 a month.

Where this idea will only work is with a vehicle that has variable selling prices and no exact value as like a Viper, as emotion really comes into play with impulse buying. The chance that it will not work is the "gray area"

 

[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JusSumFastGi:
If you sell it in four months for 55k you lost the 4.6k?

AND the insurance and financing costs.

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I would not sell it for 55k. I would try to sell it for 60K. Its high I know but I bet I could do it. Insurance and financing is figured above.

 

[Toby]

Too add to the story there is a 100% stock 98 GTS right now in the classifieds... silver 1200 miles on it for 60k. I bet he will get it too.

 

[AJ]

mmm no. unleast the economy takes an upswing (which it will not this year), you will not be able to sell a 98 for 60- not even close. you cant sell it for 55 for all i can see now. i've been tracking the prices for quite some time and a a 98 can sell prolly for 50-52 now. but that is about it. also, once the 2003 start hitting the showrooms there will be plenty used vipers for sale from people that are trading up. so the price will go lower. why do you thing that all of a sudden all dealers are trying to unload their 01 and 02 cars for invoice or under? you would think they know better, right? well, they do know better

i've been dealing with exotic cars for quite some time and i can tell you that what you describe is a wishful thinking. buy the car, drive it, enjoy it and sell it for what you can and dont look back. if you are concerned about investments go buy some real estate- you are much better off.

i should know- i buy/sell on average of two high-end cars for personal use every year...

alex
00 m5
few other cars

 

[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AJ:

mmm no. unleast the economy takes an upswing

the economy has already shown signs of recovery, unemployment is down and the market is up. Spring is almost here too. Lots of people coming out of their hibernation especially with Sept 11

making everybody "dig in"...I know I am ready to get back to living life and I am ready to spend some money.

you will not be able to sell a 98 for 60- not even close.

seen it more than once a 98 with less than 5k miles go for that.

you cant sell it for 55 for all I can see now.

?? 55k is a great deal for 3k miles..at least that is what I have seen. I may be totally wrong.

I've been tracking the prices for quite some time and a a 98 can sell prolly for 50-52 now.

if you know of one with 5k miles or less, 98 GTS's for 50 to 52....please do tell...I will buy it asap!!

So you think the car I am looking at is priced too high? 55k, extended warr. and 5k miles too much?


also, once the 2003 start hitting the showrooms there will be plenty used vipers for sale from people that are trading up.

good point.


so the price will go lower. why do you thing that all of a sudden all dealers are trying to unload their 01 and 02 cars for invoice or under?

Because of the economy in the past 4-5 months and the 2003 release. I personally like the current cars over the 2003. I think the 2003 sales will be less than expected. just my .02

you would think they know better, right? well, they do know better

YES they do and they are loosing lots of money because of the interest they are paying on the cars.


I've been dealing with exotic cars for quite some time and I can tell you that what you describe is a wishful thinking.

Oh my yes! very wishful thinking.

buy the car, drive it, enjoy it and sell it for what you can and don't look back.

YIKES!

if you are concerned about investments go buy some real estate- you are much better off.


Done that. Vipers = investment. No way...at least not now. Try to cut the losses and maybe just maybe break even. maybe.

I should know- I buy/sell on average of two high-end cars for personal use every year...

please do tell...do you break even or come out ahead? or loose it big time?

alex
00 m5
few other cars

I just love Vipers but I also want to be as smart as I can with the money I spend.

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[onerareviper]

I give up!!

Your story changes with every post, and a few have been edited after posting. You claim I am being ******* you, and maybe I am. But you lack listening skills, like other posters have indicated. It's down right frustrating! I have wasted a lot of time typing here, which I do regret. I don't know everything, maybe 98.5% of everything , but I do know this: You are not going to listen to anyone unless they share your viewpoint. Some people just have to learn the hard way, but at least you'll be enjoying a Viper while this lesson is taught.

P.S. - My point about the Dealer License was this: 1.) You said you are in the process (Present Tense) of applying for a Dealer's license. So this mean you already bought a plot of land (that can fit so many vehicles on), and have an indoor facility on that plot of land, etc... This is just one of the many requirements you need to apply for a Dealer's License, at least in PA. And I'm pretty sure it's the same in Ohio. And I'm sure you already have your Tax Id's & business license ready as well....

Gee thanks for looking up a web page and posting the site to indicate your knowledge. And it only took you 1-2 days to find it. Give me a freak'in break.

I will CONCLUDE with this: Toby's right, you can buy a Viper, maintain it, insure it, and only spend $180 a month for all associate cost. Then you can sell it for more than what you paid, recoupe all your cost, and buy another one. Sure glad I bought one........ I'll make sure I share this with my potential buyer when I decide to sell my Viper - not for a long-time.....


WE TRIED...

 

[jamie furman]

I probably did not make myself clear, I don't ever buy from a dealer when I buy used. If you do buy from a dealer you probably won't ride cheap and you will lose money.The cars are out there and if you have the money especially cash the deals are there thats how dealers make money.

 

[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by onerareviper:
I give up!!

please do.

Your story changes with every post, and a few have been edited after posting.

it did? please explain? I edited a few times to correct spelling errors. my "story" has always been the same.

You claim I am being ******* you, and maybe I am.

yes


But you lack listening skills, like other posters have indicated.

?? I listen and read every post. I am just trying to ask questions and come up with my conclusions.


It's down right frustrating!

then stop posting. If it hurts when you touch a hot surface ..then stop touching it.

I have wasted a lot of time typing here, which I do regret.

good you have turn this thread into your personal flame fest. thanks

I don't know everything, maybe 98.5% of everything , but I do know this: You are not going to listen to anyone unless they share your viewpoint.

not true. Just because I post my thoughts doesn't mean I am not listening. I am most likely NOT going to buy a Viper right now because I do not think I want to gamble with maybe loosing money.
I actually also am looking at a Porsche and a Ferrari. This place has been a GREAT help and I have even has one very nice member look at a car for me in FL.

Some people just have to learn the hard way, but at least you'll be enjoying a Viper while this lesson is taught.

That I will do when I get one.

P.S. - My point about the Dealer License was this: 1.) You said you are in the process (Present Tense) of applying for a Dealer's license.

yes, but you assumed too much. I just received the packet of info late last week.

So this mean you already bought a plot of land (that can fit so many vehicles on), and have an indoor facility on that plot of land, etc... This is just one of the many requirements you need to apply for a Dealer's License, at least in PA.

Same in OHIO...and it takes about a week to find a place. Again you assumed that I actually need to buy or find anything. How is it that you think that I do not know of about 5 different places right now that I could rent for next to nothing in the middle of nowhere just so I can take advantage of being a dealer.


And I'm pretty sure it's the same in Ohio. And I'm sure you already have your Tax Id's & business license ready as well....

um, duh.

Gee thanks for looking up a web page and posting the site to indicate your knowledge. And it only took you 1-2 days to find it. Give me a freak'in break.

I had the info already. I have been talking with the nice folks there for about 2 weeks now. I was being nice by thinking someone including yourself might benefit from the link. Geez.

I will CONCLUDE with this: Toby's right, you can buy a Viper, maintain it,

I never said maintain it in my figures. It was for purchase only.


insure it, and only spend $180 a month for all associate cost.

um, yes...that is correct. please review my other post..slower this time.

Then you can sell it for more than what you paid, recoupe all your cost, and buy another one.

I was being hopeful not boasting that I actually could. Again the hole reason for this post..to get additional thoughts on the subject. I think I could do this as a dealer easier but not to easily as a consumer.

Sure glad I bought one........ I'll make sure I share this with my potential buyer when I decide to sell my Viper - not for a long-time.....

WE TRIED...

No.. you stroked your ego and made a mess of this thread. I felt this place was a nice place until you came along.





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[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jamie furman:
I probably did not make myself clear, I don't ever buy from a dealer when I buy used. If you do buy from a dealer you probably won't ride cheap and you will lose money.The cars are out there and if you have the money especially cash the deals are there thats how dealers make money.

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Thank you and I agree.

 

[cycloneGTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TobyT:

By the way..spell check is a wonderful thing.
I edited a few times to correct spelling errors.
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[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cycloneGTS:

Originally posted by TobyT:

By the way..spell check is a wonderful thing.
I edited a few times to correct spelling errors.

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[/B]

sometimes a re-read a post and find a correction that needs to be made. What is the point you are trying to make here? I see I am bringing out all the flame fest jockeys with this thread. I think it is time to close it. I have the information I need on the subject.

 

[cycloneGTS]

No point to make...just confused. I (like everyone else) read this post, which started as a request for input on the possibility of a car, and each day becomes more of a battle of words having little to do with the car in question. It actually gets difficult, and frustrating, to read the lengthy responses, picking apart someone's statements, line by line.

Your last post now states you will probably not buy a Viper, which is too bad (opinion). The consensus on this thread has been that you, or anyone, would not regret owning one.

Mike

 

[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cycloneGTS:
No point to make...just confused. I (like everyone else) read this post, which started as a request for input on the possibility of a car, and each day becomes more of a battle of words having little to do with the car in question. It actually gets difficult, and frustrating, to read the lengthy responses, picking apart someone's statements, line by line.

Your last post now states you will probably not buy a Viper, which is too bad (opinion). The consensus on this thread has been that you, or anyone, would not regret owning one.

Mike

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I agree. I would love to own one. I just want to make sure all my ducks are lined up. I guess I should have just let that guy toot his horn and left it at that. I just like to dissect information and he really got me going. Sorry for the long thread.

 

[slaughterj]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GTSREDDOG:
Not my car Chuck but I think next week mine is going to a new home in West Virginia. The new owner will love my car I am sure of that. Sorry your couldnt have 3 Chuck. Maybe now I can start looking for my new Yellow snake....

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Glad to hear you're not getting out of the snake world entirely, nothing wrong with trading up

 

[Toby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by onerareviper:
1.) Exhaust observation - No problem.

I didn't know their was a problem?

2.) No, you don't have to pay sales tax in Florida (unless you register it there), but when you register the car in Ohio you will have to pay the 6%. Come on dude, you buy and sell Ferrari's for profit and don't know this????

yes I know, thank you. I answered my own question after I posted it. I pay taxes when I get the title in Ohio.
Who said I buy and sell Ferrari's. I just said I am a Ferrari guy a heart and I know more about them than Vipers. Geez.

3.) Other cost while owning car - Everything not covered by an extended warrantee. You would be surprised how fast those $400 a pop tires wear out.

gee thanks I didn't know that. You mean that high performance tires wear out? They don't come with a 100000 mile warranty?
That changes everything.


4.) $55K is a good deal for a '98 with that mileage, but people do their research when spending 50K+. No one is going to drop Mid 60's on this car. The dealership knows this, hence the 55K pricetag. Use your head. Why in the World would they sell it to you for $55K, when some other (uneducated buyer) will spend 60's for the same car? Dealer's do this for a living, don't be so naive.

The dealer was asking 67K to start and yes lots of people with "deep pockets" buy stuff without research. It's called impulse buying. The car has only been on the lot for a week. They would love to sell it NOW to avoid paying interest on the car. Please stop insulting me to pump your ego. I am just looking for a different view.

5.) Name me 10 cars for the year 1990 - 2002 that have appreciated?

you tell me, that is why I am here...to ask questions. I take the humble approach..strength through weakness. I turn my ego off most of the time. I learn more that way.


I can only think of a few. But if you had the insight to purchase that car when it was first produce, you are smarter than all of us.

most likely not smarter.

It's merely luck. Ask all the 1990 ZR1 owners, 1992 Original Viper owners, and Prowler owners.... Some paid over double sticker, fact...

so what's is the point you are trying to make here? A 55K GTS will be worth 22.5 in a few years? ???

6.) When Car Dealer's purchase used cars at dealer auctions, I'm 99% sure they don't pay taxes on these vehicle.

They do not. They buy with the intention to resell. I just found this out when I sent away for information to get a dealer license.

I'm sure someone on this page know 100% if they do or not. (Now when they sell that car, I'm sure they have to pay taxes on the profit made, but $2,000 profit *.06 is much less then $55,000 * .06.)

7.) Your right, Dealer's do make money selling vehicles. And many lose money as well. It's like any business - risk is involved.

Really?

8.) So your applying for a Dealer's license, huh??? Why don't you then educate me on the requirements to even apply for a Dealer's license in OH or PA. I know what they are, and I bet you don't meet them.....

It is rather easy actually in OH, not sure about PA.
here is the web site to help you..no wait you already know everything. http://www.ohioautodealers.com


Not trying to flame here man, but I'm just calling your bluff.

Bluff? please explain? This has me totally confused? Are you calling me a liar or something? I do not get it?

I hope you buy the Viper and join the Viper nation. You will have a great time, but people are very educated on this site and will call your bluff.

Again what bluff? I am just trying educate myself with Vipers and so far except you, have been very helpful.

55K is a great deal, no doubt about it. My points are this:

1.) You are not going to steal a car off a Dealer.

You have a wonderful talent of pointing out the obvious.

They are extremely educated when it comes to pricing.

They are?


But 'good' deals are out there.

agreed.

2.) Cars are poor investments, although I think if you shop wisely you can minimize the losses.

My whole point of being here.


I think we think alike in this respect, I just feel I'm being more realistic.

Later


P.S. - I forgot to mention the finance cost on a $55K purchase. Unless you will be paying cash. Tach many more thousand onto that 55K. IMHO, if you own the Viper for a year or two, and only lose $5,000, you did fantastic!!! But make money, ain't gonna happen.

not paying cash.


P.S.S. - Oops. I also forgot about insurance. Tach a grand or two more....

My total cost for the Viper to be in my garage with tax, extended warr, delivery etc etc. is 59.6K and 180.00 a month to keep it there. I only want it for a short time. It would be a 50/50 gamble if I could get 60 or 61K but I could see it happen. maybe.


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[onerareviper]

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist...

I am most likely NOT going to buy a Viper right now because I do not think I want to gamble with maybe loosing money. I actually also am looking at a Porsche and a Ferrari.


Yeah, Porsche's and Ferrari's are safe investments, and easy/cheap to maintain...

P.S. - I'm just teasing Toby, get the darn Viper and join the nation. You wouldn't regret it, and don't take my ribbing seriously.... If I was a jack*ss in previous post, I apoligize. Work sucked last week, and the Viper is in storage for another couple weeks. I'm having withdrawl....

Later