Need some quick imput...on a 98 red GTS with 3K miles

Toby

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I found a "like new 98 GTS with 3K miles on it. In Perfect condition no mod's, etc. I may have the owner down to 55K. What ya think?

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Toby

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Do you think this cars value would go up in a year or two or am I looking at take a loss. I really want to be able to find a Viper that I can drive for a few years then resell without too much of a loss. I do not plan to drive it much. Maybe couple of thousand miles a year.
 

SteveMat

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I could be wrong but the rims look like they are from a 96-97. I think the 98's have the bowl like rims. If this is true, you may want to question what is up with the rim changes...
 
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Toby

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ok..more info...

Edmunds.... dealer selling prices 51K
kelly......." ".................. 57K
Kelly private party ............. 53K

I have a solid offer on the table at 55K.
They were asking 67K to start...then 56.9K then after i said no way..the guy called back and offered 55K. That seems too easy.
I think 55K and they throw in an extended warranty and delivery.

any suggestions?
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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If everything checks out it sounds like a good deal. I'm not a "car investor". I buy 'em to drive 'em. But I don't think a well kept Gen II is going to dip very far into the 40s if at all.

It sounds to me like you're buying as an investment, only driving a couple thousand miles a year. Doesn't seem worth it to me but it's your money.
 
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Toby

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for me...value is everything as I am a Ferrari guy at heart and investment and Ferrari go hand in hand with the classics. With such a range of asking prices with vipers it seems if you get a great deal from the start you might just recover some losses when one sells. What I really want is a 2002 gts acr yellow with black stripes. I want to be able resell this one for 60k at the end of summer. (nice thought and I have seen this happen lately)

Thanks for the imput. keep it coming!
 

Steve-Indy

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If you make money on a Viper as you are describing/hoping...you'll be LUCKY. FYI $67,000.00 buys a NEW, 5-10 mile 01 without stripes off of a showroom floor. There are 2000 Vipers with 3-4000 miles (with stripes) going for $60,000.00
Wife and I admittedly ENJOY our Vipers...and each year they do depreciate.

If the car you are tracking inspects well...you are getting "close", in my opinion.

One other point(since "investment" was brought up)...you will not only lose money through depreciation, but YOUR money will miss investment opportunity...try a search for this angle...one member calculated around 22,000.00 first year cost on a new 2000 or 2001 by my recollection.

That said....GET a Viper and have a BLAST...MORE fun than many Ferraris and Porsches ...personal opinion and experience.
 
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Toby

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auto trader average price for 2001 = 75K
for 2000 = 64K
for 1999 = 61K
for 1998 = 58K
for 1997 = 54K
for 1996 = 50K
for 1995 = 45K
for 1994 = 42K
for 1993 = 38K
for 1992 = 38K

This list I made up was from ACTUAL asking prices listed on the site. I know asking doesnt equal selling but it does show the basic levels.


It looks like by my search I might find a better deal with an older one. I see one on autotrader for 35K a 1992 with 1700 miles on it. I know somebody out there would buy it for 40K. I could drive it for the summer and sell it and actually make a few even after taxes.
 

REDSLED

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Sounds like your working with "Scared" money! You should buy the Viper that you really want. Murphy's Law: You'll always find a better deal after the fact. Buy A Viper, drive it, and enjoy the experience that most Americans will never get the chance to do. I don't know of many people who have bought a late-model car and been able to flip it for any reasonable amount of profit.
 
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Toby

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I guess I have been spoiled in the Ferrari world where you can buy a used Ferrari one day and sell it the next for a profit.(generality)

what is scared money?

people make money all the time on late model cars. They are called dealers.
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cycloneGTS

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TobyT:
I guess I have been spoiled in the Ferrari world where you can buy a used Ferrari one day and sell it the next for a profit.(generality)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you currently (or have you previously) own a Ferrari? Just curious...
 

BigsViper

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Beware the low miles '92!! If you search the archives you will see many posts about "driven" cars being in better shape than garage queens. There are dried-out seal and head gasket concerns, or possible cylinder sleeve movement. Not saying GenI's are bad at all, just need to exercise caution. If you think you can buy a late model car and "make money" on it short term... Good Luck!!! Just my $.02
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onerareviper

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First, this is my observation:

1.) I have a cheap montior, but that does NOT look like a stock exhaust. Not that this matters much, but just an observation.

2.) $55,000 * 0.07 tax = $58,850.

3.) To be safe, even if you drive the car a few thousand miles, you need an extented warrantee. Another $1,500 = $60,350.

4.) Other small costs you/I aren't thinking of...

5.) Advertising cost to sell the car and time spent trying to...

* Forget about making a profit, especially in the short term. I think Viper's may appreciate, but not in short-term. Using cars as an investment is not wise. Real Estate, stock market (long-term), etc... appreciate much, much faster. Car dealers make money buy selling quantity, not 1 or 2 exotics. Can you also tell us what Ferrari's you've bought and sold immediately for profit? This is very, very hard to do. Most exotic car dealers have a large indoor facility and a established reputation. I don't think they have to pay tax on the vehicle as well, which is A LOT when were talking Ferrari's/Viper's. Private individuals selling exotics/Ferrari's for profit - in short term - unheard of.
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P.S. - Comparing a car dealer to a private individual is also ridiculous. They get many perks because of there Dealer License, that we don't. Private auctions, trade-in vehicles, etc... The list goes on, and on. If there was an 'easy' way for private individuals to buy/sell cars and make lots of money, every one of us car-nuts would be doing it... Hence, the Car Dealer's continue. Maybe Chuck can chime in on the perks. Of course, along with these perks is many costs that go hand-and-hand with running a business. Much stress/time/etc... that I'm sure Chuck could indicate as well.
 

onerareviper

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Give me the name of a Ferrari dealer that will sell a 360 for its MSRP of around $150,000. Ain't gonna happen. Small thing called Supply and Demand.

P.S. - If it did eventually happen, 2-3 years, it would be because the market will only bare that price of $150,000. No Ferrari dealer is gonna give you a car for $150,000, when other people will pay $225,000 for the same car. And even if they would, the deposit that you put down, not earing any interest of appeciating in any way for that 2-3 years, would offset any profit that could be made. If it was as easy as you state, every rich person in America that could afford that down payment on the Ferrari would be in this business. NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH, kid....

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Viper Fever

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Worst case scenario you'll love the viper :Will it go up in Value U bet when and how much only time will tell but they will go up.,and that is a great deal
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Put some white stripes on that baby-
 

slaughterj

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Does the car have a transferable extended warranty? Something else to consider in the calculus.
 

onerareviper

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1.) Exhaust observation - No problem.

2.) No, you don't have to pay sales tax in Florida (unless you register it there), but when you register the car in Ohio you will have to pay the 6%. Come on dude, you buy and sell Ferrari's for profit and don't know this????

3.) Other cost while owning car - Everything not covered by an extended warrantee. You would be surprised how fast those $400 a pop tires wear out.

4.) $55K is a good deal for a '98 with that mileage, but people do their research when spending 50K+. No one is going to drop Mid 60's on this car. The dealership knows this, hence the 55K pricetag. Use your head. Why in the World would they sell it to you for $55K, when some other (uneducated buyer) will spend 60's for the same car? Dealer's do this for a living, don't be so naive.

5.) Name me 10 cars for the year 1990 - 2002 that have appreciated? I can only think of a few. But if you had the insight to purchase that car when it was first produce, you are smarter than all of us. It's merely luck. Ask all the 1990 ZR1 owners, 1992 Original Viper owners, and Prowler owners.... Some paid over double sticker, fact...

6.) When Car Dealer's purchase used cars at dealer auctions, I'm 99% sure they don't pay taxes on these vehicle. I'm sure someone on this page know 100% if they do or not. (Now when they sell that car, I'm sure they have to pay taxes on the profit made, but $2,000 profit *.06 is much less then $55,000 * .06.)

7.) Your right, Dealer's do make money selling vehicles. And many lose money as well. It's like any business - risk is involved.

8.) So your applying for a Dealer's license, huh??? Why don't you then educate me on the requirements to even apply for a Dealer's license in OH or PA. I know what they are, and I bet you don't meet them.....

Not trying to flame here man, but I'm just calling your bluff. I hope you buy the Viper and join the Viper nation. You will have a great time, but people are very educated on this site and will call your bluff.

55K is a great deal, no doubt about it. My points are this: 1.) You are not going to steal a car off a Dealer. They are extremely educated when it comes to pricing. But 'good' deals are out there. 2.) Cars are poor investments, although I think if you shop wisely you can minimize the losses. I think we think alike in this respect, I just feel I'm being more realistic.

Later


P.S. - I forgot to mention the finance cost on a $55K purchase. Unless you will be paying cash. Tach many more thousand onto that 55K. IMHO, if you own the Viper for a year or two, and only lose $5,000, you did fantastic!!! But make money, ain't gonna happen.


P.S.S. - Oops. I also forgot about insurance. Tach a grand or two more....
 

jamie furman

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The only one who makes money on the ferrari is the dealer, when you go to sell your 360 you will lose 30 grand or 1/2 of a viper if you have to sell, and thats if you can find someone who can afford it, so maybe you won't be able to sell it at all,as a 360 owner I know that first hand.Second of all if I am understanding your statement right about appreciation, forget copo's, although I think they are way higher than 5 years ago. Check out hemis most have doubled in that time.And if you buy a viper right you can drive it for a year or two for 200 dollars a month or less.In some cases make money, I bought a 94 rt10 a couple years ago drove it all summer and made 4grand when I sold it, did the same thing with a gtsr.
 

onerareviper

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Jamie,

I don't doubt what your saying, but two observations:

1.) Your buy/sell time was very quick. Only a couple months, not 1-2 years. Also, the GTSR is a different animal as far as pricing and resale.

2.) I'd be very surprised if you purchased these cars off a dealer (maybe the GTSR). I'm assuming you bought off a private individual. Sometimes private owners are in need of cash, and will sell at a little more than what a dealer would give them outright for the car. This rarely happens, but when it does, yes, you get a great deal and can make a few grand if you turn it around quickly. Problem with this is your still stuck with the taxes, which can deduct from the profit.

3.) $50,000+ cars are not easy to sell, at least where I live. Takes a lot of time, patients, and sometimes money. But I'm sure a few private owner's have profitted from doing so, like yourself, but I think it's the exception and not the rule.

Take care. Nice rims....
 
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Toby

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by onerareviper:
First, this is my observation:

1.) I have a cheap montior, but that does NOT look like a stock exhaust. Not that this matters much, but just an observation.

Maybe so, I will look into this. thanks

2.) $55,000 * 0.07 tax = $58,850.

I pay 6.0% in Ohio. I don't think I have to pay FL sales tax. Do they even have sales tax? I know some states do not. Not sure on this one.

3.) To be safe, even if you drive the car a few thousand miles, you need an extented warrantee. Another $1,500 = $60,350.

They are throwing in a warranty at no charge including delivery.

4.) Other small costs you/I aren't thinking of...

title and tags etc. 100.00

5.) Advertising cost to sell the car and time spent trying to...

little to none. Cars are a passion so this is play time to me.

* Forget about making a profit, especially in the short term.

I was not looking to make big profits, just thinking of ways to reduce any loss and MAYBE make a very small profit and enjoy a hot car for a while. That is why I am here by the way..to see if Vipers are the type of car you can do this with.


I think Viper's may appreciate, but not in short-term.

You can always find a buyer who will pay as long as you are not pricing you right out of the market and being silly about it. This car was listed for 67K. If I do not buy it, some guy who does not do research will buy the thing most likely in the low 60's and think he is getting a great deal.

Using cars as an investment is not wise.

Ask the owner of a COPO Camaro. Check the prices from 5 years ago to now. That is just one example.

Real Estate, stock market (long-term), etc... appreciate much, much faster.

yes. I am talking about buying a toy without taking a bath when I sell it. I am not investing for the future.


Car dealers make money buy selling quantity, not 1 or 2 exotics.

Maybe on new cars. BIG profits on used cars.

Can you also tell us what Ferrari's you've bought and sold immediately for profit?

no.

This is very, very hard to do.

no.

Most exotic car dealers have a large indoor facility and a established reputation.

they do?

I don't think they have to pay tax on the vehicle as well, which is A LOT when were talking Ferrari's/Viper's.

Tax exempt products to resell? I think I am in the wrong business. If that is true I think I am going to start a small dealership.

Private individuals selling exotics/Ferrari's for profit - in short term - unheard of.
smile.gif


It happens more time than you think. You just have to be in the right position at the right time. I do not think you can make a living at it that's for sure.
smile.gif



P.S. - Comparing a car dealer to a private individual is also ridiculous.

yes..to a point. I treat every car purchase as a business transaction and try to get the maximum benefit with proper research. If those guys can do it...so can I.


They get many perks because of there Dealer License, that we don't. Private auctions, trade-in vehicles, etc... The list goes on, and on. If there was an 'easy' way for private individuals to buy/sell cars and make lots of money, every one of us car-nuts would be doing it... Hence, the Car Dealer's continue. Maybe Chuck can chime in on the perks. Of course, along with these perks is many costs that go hand-and-hand with running a business. Much stress/time/etc... that I'm sure Chuck could indicate as well.

agreed. I am applying for a dealer license as wee speak.


Thanks for you info.


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Toby

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by onerareviper:

P.S. - No Ferrari dealer is gonna give you a car for $150,000, when other people will pay $225,000 for the same car. And even if they would, the deposit that you put down, not earing any interest of appeciating in any way for that 2-3 years, would offset any profit that could be made.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really do not think a guy who has the funds to buy a 360 is really worried about loosing a few dollars not earning interest. I think on some deposits on products you may receive interest for that very reason. I maybe be totally off base on the interest thing.

By the way..spell check is a wonderful thing.
 

Craig 201 MPH

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If you want a Viper as an investment, get a blue/white GTS. No offence to Red owners (any Viper is great) but they've come in red every year except 96 GTS' and is definately the most plentiful color.

FWIW

Craig
 

GTSREDDOG

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Not my car Chuck but I think next week mine is going to a new home in West Virginia. The new owner will love my car I am sure of that. Sorry your couldnt have 3 Chuck. Maybe now I can start looking for my new Yellow snake....
 
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Toby

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jamie furman:

And if you buy a viper right you can drive it for a year or two for 200 dollars a month or less.In some cases make money, I bought a 94 rt10 a couple years ago drove it all summer and made 4grand when I sold it, did the same thing with a gtsr.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, I thought it could be done as long as you find a good deal.

I can drive this Viper in question for 180.00 a month after ALL expenses with zero down, delivery, extented warranty, insurance,etc etc. I just need to figure out if I want to take the chance that I can resell the thing when I am done with it without taking a bath.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GTSREDDOG:

Sorry your couldnt have 3 Chuck.
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Someday Dog...someday.
 
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