** NEW 800 RWHP GEN 3 TURBO SYSTEM ** in Progress**

[DholiRaja209]

Very impressive numbers Steve! And the setup looks amazing!!

 

[GTS-R 001]

Very impressive numbers Steve! And the setup looks amazing!!

These are the pump gas numbers on a stock cast piston engine!

I can't wait to see what the system can do when the boost is turned up (the turbos I am using, triple ceramic ball bearing oil less water cooled quite a mouthful, are rated at 740 HP each....)

 

[JAY]

Nice Progress !

 

[DeceptioN]

Are you doing installs also or just selling the kit?

 

[1Need4Speed]

Steve,
I've been following this post for a while nowand am glad to see you're finally get some numbers for your system, congrats!

I'm a potentially buyer for this system and I'mfamiliar with the 2nd and 3rd Gen Vipers.

I have some questions about the system which I've beenmaking notes of as the thread has been progressing that I am sureyou can answer for me and other prospective buyers about how some of thedesign and layout of this system jives with what we're given fromDodge.

1. Do you have the dyno graph's for the 6 PSI 676RWHP pull and then the 8 PSI pull for 772 RWHP?

2. In the first picture, you have some flexible ducting fromthe turbo to the crossover pipe. Will the production kit have this as well orwill you have mandrell bent fabricated piping there? How much heat do you thinkwill be transmitted to the differential case and fluid, CV shafts bushings andbearings from the exhaust pipes as it passes from the turbo exhaust to thecrossover pipe? Will you supply some kind of an O2 wire extension kit to movethe O2's to the rear of the car like in the picture? How will the extra lengthaffect response time of the O2's?

3. Moving our way to the front of the car, how will you keepthe rubber bushings from the swaybar mounts from burning up with theturbo mounts being bolted to the frame where the swaybar mounts bolt to theframe rails in stock from? Also, will the turbo exhaust pipe add a good amountof heat to the swaybar and transmit more heat to the swaybarbushing?

4. Will spacing the swaybar down cause any wheel clearanceissues or rear end geomerty handling issues?

5. Where the exhaust piping isgoing to the turbo past the rear lower control arm pickup point, how far awayis the hot pipe from the rubber bushing there? I'm concerned that maybe thissystem will melt the control arm rubber bushings? Maybe you have goodclearance, but the shot from below does not give the proper depth perception tosee what I am asking for. Please post some pics to get a better ideaof this.

How does the suspension's up and downmovement along with the flex of the exhaust system change the clearancebetween the hot pipe? Also, what about the emergency brake cables? What will bedone to protect them from melting and how does the spacing down of the sawybaraffect the emergency brake movement, engagement and clamping power?

6. How much of the rear wheel well battery box needto be modified to give clearance for the hot pipes to the turbos and how will it beheat shielded to not melt the plastic? How will a fabrication 'noob' likemyself know how much to cut out? Will you provide some kind of template foreach side? Does the heat from the hot pipeshave any chance to melt the rear bumper? I know you have been driving around alot without the bumper, so I would like to know how many miles you have drivenwith everything in place to make sure this will be safe for anybody purchasingyour system. Some pictures of how you have accomplished this would be greatlyappreciated. Modifications like this on cars in the general sense look cool,but the practical aspect of all the little details to make this function likestock are sometimes more difficult than they might seem on the surface. Theysay the devil is in the details

7. How will a fabricating 'noob' like myself be able to cutthe battery box mount off the upper frame rail cleanly and how will I be ableto return the car to stock if I decide to sell the car later on with thebattery mount cut off? Will there be an installation video showing how to dothis? Will you provide some kind of battery mount re-attachment kit for lateron? Can you show some pics of how you have got the battery mounted atthis time? Is this how it will be for buyers of this system? Will it be in thetrunk or will it be in the bumper area? Will I still be able to put my golf bagin the rear hatch area and be able to close the hatch? LOL! People may laugh,but these are practical questions!

8. What is the flow rate for the water pump for the air towater IC? How does it turn on? Will you include a wiring diagram for wiring upthe pump and the boost-a-pump?

9. In the second and third picture, where the transmissionmeets the bell housing, it looks like the silicone coupler and piping aretoo bulky to install the driveshaft cover because they will be below theframe rails. Is that just the picture, or can you stuff that pipe in thereenough to install the cover. How does the movement of the engines andtransmissions rubber mounts affect the clearance of these areas of the piping?Will you supply the kit with solid motor and transmission mounts to minimizethis?

10. Final question. When I was doing a oil change recently,I treid to put a piece of 2" piping through the same spot where you runyour 2.5 or 3 inch pipe through the middle of the steering rack to theintercooler and I could not get it to fit.

Can you show a picture of how much needs to be cut out ofthe power steering rack support piece of the frame? This is the only part thatI cannot figure out how I could do the installation for because there is noroom without a lot of cutting. Over the years, I have noticed how Heffner andUR had the pipes from the intercoolers coming more from the outside coming in. Maybe that's why. Hope these questions and concerns are not too overwhelming...
Look forward to your reply.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Are you doing installs also or just selling the kit?

I am selling Kits and doing Installs, in fact I would prefer to install, I pretty much build the kits on the car for a perfect fit so it pretty much saves us both some time if I just install it on the car. (The more times you do things you get better and quicker at it as well)

Thanks for the question

 

[GTS-R 001]

Nice Progress !

Thanks Jay!

 

[GTS-R 001]

Need4Speed, or Bruce I think it is,

Did you recently sell your Turbo car that Paolo built for you in 2008

( http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/611020-My-GTS-Shipped-to-CPE-TURBO! )

( http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/86667-turbo-s-2.html#post1335794 )

and buy a Gen 3 recently?

Did you in fact write this post or did someone write it for you to post?

Your questions seem a little too detailed and based more on the system the way it was when I pulled Paolo from the project and sent him home, versus how it is now, so I question whether these are your questions or his, and this is a backdoor way to try to cause problems, but I will answer them as best I can given their nature and assumed intent. If you have in fact sold your Gen2 Side mount Turbo car that Paolo built for you Bruce, and have bought a Gen 3, and are looking to get a system from me versus buying one from Paolo whom you are such good friends with (so I heard) then please accept my apologies in advance....

Given the length of you questions and the fact that it is darn near midnight I will answer them tomorrow when I have more time.

Goodnight.

Steve,
I've been following this post for a while nowand am glad to see you're finally get some numbers for your system, congrats!

I'm a potentially buyer for this system and I'mfamiliar with the 2nd and 3rd Gen Vipers.

I have some questions about the system which I've beenmaking notes of as the thread has been progressing that I am sureyou can answer for me and other prospective buyers about how some of thedesign and layout of this system jives with what we're given fromDodge.

1. Do you have the dyno graph's for the 6 PSI 676RWHP pull and then the 8 PSI pull for 772 RWHP?

2. In the first picture, you have some flexible ducting fromthe turbo to the crossover pipe. Will the production kit have this as well orwill you have mandrell bent fabricated piping there? How much heat do you thinkwill be transmitted to the differential case and fluid, CV shafts bushings andbearings from the exhaust pipes as it passes from the turbo exhaust to thecrossover pipe? Will you supply some kind of an O2 wire extension kit to movethe O2's to the rear of the car like in the picture? How will the extra lengthaffect response time of the O2's?

3. Moving our way to the front of the car, how will you keepthe rubber bushings from the swaybar mounts from burning up with theturbo mounts being bolted to the frame where the swaybar mounts bolt to theframe rails in stock from? Also, will the turbo exhaust pipe add a good amountof heat to the swaybar and transmit more heat to the swaybarbushing?

4. Will spacing the swaybar down cause any wheel clearanceissues or rear end geomerty handling issues?

5. Where the exhaust piping isgoing to the turbo past the rear lower control arm pickup point, how far awayis the hot pipe from the rubber bushing there? I'm concerned that maybe thissystem will melt the control arm rubber bushings? Maybe you have goodclearance, but the shot from below does not give the proper depth perception tosee what I am asking for. Please post some pics to get a better ideaof this.

How does the suspension's up and downmovement along with the flex of the exhaust system change the clearancebetween the hot pipe? Also, what about the emergency brake cables? What will bedone to protect them from melting and how does the spacing down of the sawybaraffect the emergency brake movement, engagement and clamping power?

6. How much of the rear wheel well battery box needto be modified to give clearance for the hot pipes to the turbos and how will it beheat shielded to not melt the plastic? How will a fabrication 'noob' likemyself know how much to cut out? Will you provide some kind of template foreach side? Does the heat from the hot pipeshave any chance to melt the rear bumper? I know you have been driving around alot without the bumper, so I would like to know how many miles you have drivenwith everything in place to make sure this will be safe for anybody purchasingyour system. Some pictures of how you have accomplished this would be greatlyappreciated. Modifications like this on cars in the general sense look cool,but the practical aspect of all the little details to make this function likestock are sometimes more difficult than they might seem on the surface. Theysay the devil is in the details

7. How will a fabricating 'noob' like myself be able to cutthe battery box mount off the upper frame rail cleanly and how will I be ableto return the car to stock if I decide to sell the car later on with thebattery mount cut off? Will there be an installation video showing how to dothis? Will you provide some kind of battery mount re-attachment kit for lateron? Can you show some pics of how you have got the battery mounted atthis time? Is this how it will be for buyers of this system? Will it be in thetrunk or will it be in the bumper area? Will I still be able to put my golf bagin the rear hatch area and be able to close the hatch? LOL! People may laugh,but these are practical questions!

8. What is the flow rate for the water pump for the air towater IC? How does it turn on? Will you include a wiring diagram for wiring upthe pump and the boost-a-pump?

9. In the second and third picture, where the transmissionmeets the bell housing, it looks like the silicone coupler and piping aretoo bulky to install the driveshaft cover because they will be below theframe rails. Is that just the picture, or can you stuff that pipe in thereenough to install the cover. How does the movement of the engines andtransmissions rubber mounts affect the clearance of these areas of the piping?Will you supply the kit with solid motor and transmission mounts to minimizethis?

10. Final question. When I was doing a oil change recently,I treid to put a piece of 2" piping through the same spot where you runyour 2.5 or 3 inch pipe through the middle of the steering rack to theintercooler and I could not get it to fit.

Can you show a picture of how much needs to be cut out ofthe power steering rack support piece of the frame? This is the only part thatI cannot figure out how I could do the installation for because there is noroom without a lot of cutting. Over the years, I have noticed how Heffner andUR had the pipes from the intercoolers coming more from the outside coming in. Maybe that's why. Hope these questions and concerns are not too overwhelming...
Look forward to your reply.

 

[kllymartin]

Post up a dyno graph.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Post up a dyno graph.

Hi Kelly,

Here I thought you were happy with your RSI sponsored system, I appreciate your interest in mine.

Here is the 6 PSI tune

[url=http://gallery.viperclub.org/showphoto.php/photo/66235/title/6-psi-run/cat/500][/URL]

 

[1Need4Speed]

Steve,
That’s not a great first impression from your remarks,the questions I ask are anything that can be seen looking at those threepictures on post number 250 by you that are the most current versions of yourkit on May 10, 2012. If you have changed a lot of the hot piping to the turbosand how they mount near the sawybar mount since that date so pleaseforward pictures.

From following the pictures you have posted on this threadfrom the beginnning to now, everybody can see you changed the number ofintercoolers and the location of the intercooler, made larger piping fromthe back to the front and routed the exhaust from the rear to thecrossover pipe to come out the side sill. Otherwise, all the turbomounting from the beginning pictures in this thread is the same as isall the hot piping to the turbos. That is why I ask the questions.

After looking at my SRT, I tried to follow your installationbased on all the detailed pics you have posted along the way. I am just curiousif you can answer my questions to my satisfaction and post the pictures I askedfor so I can get a better idea if your system is right for my Viper. I've likedthe idea of placing the turbos in the back since I saw the STS rear mountvideo in the past and with the space limitiations under the hood of the SRT. When you startedthis thread, I considered your kit as a possible option. I’m sure you haveit all figured out and hopefully you’ll be able to answer my questions so I can make a decision on my Viper. Thank you.

 

[kllymartin]

:lol: Steve is such a hack.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Steve,
That’s not a great first impression from your remarks,the questions I ask are anything that can be seen looking at those threepictures on post number 250 by you that are the most current versions of yourkit on May 10, 2012. If you have changed a lot of the hot piping to the turbosand how they mount near the sawybar mount since that date so pleaseforward pictures.

From following the pictures you have posted on this threadfrom the beginnning to now, everybody can see you changed the number ofintercoolers and the location of the intercooler, made larger piping fromthe back to the front and routed the exhaust from the rear to thecrossover pipe to come out the side sill. Otherwise, all the turbomounting from the beginning pictures in this thread is the same as isall the hot piping to the turbos. That is why I ask the questions.

After looking at my SRT, I tried to follow your installationbased on all the detailed pics you have posted along the way. I am just curiousif you can answer my questions to my satisfaction and post the pictures I askedfor so I can get a better idea if your system is right for my Viper. I've likedthe idea of placing the turbos in the back since I saw the STS rear mountvideo in the past and with the space limitiations under the hood of the SRT. When you startedthis thread, I considered your kit as a possible option. I’m sure you haveit all figured out and hopefully you’ll be able to answer my questions so I can make a decision on my Viper. Thank you.

Bruce,

I try to take things at face value as mcuh as I can, and I fully believe in Occam's razor, whereby, basically, the simplest and most direct answer is usually the correct one. Given that I was aware of your previous Turbo car and the fact that you lived with someone that worked on the system in its infancy where a lot of your questions would make sense coming from him vs someone that is just looking at pictures, I assumed they were coming more form him than you. That is why I put the line that if I was wrong, my appologies in advance.

What is your Gen 3 a convert or a coupe?



With that said and done, you ask a lot of good questions and I will do my best to answer them.

1. I posted the 6 PSI , I will post the 8 later when I have more time to scan it in.

2. The flexible piping in some of the pictures is a development item only, it only made sense to use something that allows one to move things around during development of a project like this. It is easy to rack up the $$$ making new sections every second day when you are fitting and testing so it only made sense to do this for development only.

There will be minimal heat near the differential as the final positioning of the Turbos has moved in the production versions of the kit and the exhaust is not near the diff now, but I can tell you as well that in the over 2000 miles of testing and logging I put into the system, the diff had no issues and as a side not the Gen 2 exhaust goes right close to the diff in those cars and you never hear about Gen 2 diff failures due to exhaust heat

The O2 wires you see are wideband wires going to the 3 different wideband devices I had hooked up for data logging and reading the Air/Fuel ratios, i didn't trust just one brand so I went with 3.

The Stock narrow band O2's are still in the same spot as factory for warm up and to avoid throwing codes.

 

[GTS-R 001]

3. Moving our way to the front of the car, how will you keep the rubber bushings from the swaybar mounts from burning up with theturbo mounts being bolted to the frame where the swaybar mounts bolt to theframe rails in stock from? Also, will the turbo exhaust pipe add a good amountof heat to the swaybar and transmit more heat to the swaybarbushing?

The positioning of the Turbos has changed and they are no longer mounted to the location you mention so no heat will be transfered to the sway bar bushings.

 

[GTS-R 001]

4. Will spacing the swaybar down cause any wheel clearanceissues or rear end geomerty handling issues?

The turbos are no longer mounted to the sway bar mounts, so No, there will be no issues. While they were in that position I noticed no ill effects either even at very high speeds.

 

[GTS-R 001]

5. Where the exhaust piping isgoing to the turbo past the rear lower control arm pickup point, how far awayis the hot pipe from the rubber bushing there? I'm concerned that maybe thissystem will melt the control arm rubber bushings? Maybe you have goodclearance, but the shot from below does not give the proper depth perception tosee what I am asking for. Please post some pics to get a better ideaof this.

The turbos and the hot sides are no longer there due to the final revisions to the system. But while they were there there were no ill effects noticed or logged. The pics of the final positioning are in the install manual.

How does the suspension's up and downmovement along with the flex of the exhaust system change the clearancebetween the hot pipe? Also, what about the emergency brake cables? What will bedone to protect them from melting and how does the spacing down of the sawybaraffect the emergency brake movement, engagement and clamping power?

Since the Turbos are no longer where they used to be there is no clearance issue to deal with, even when they were there, there was no disruption in travel the car could be lowered 2.5 inches and it could be jacked up and the suspension at full travel with no issues, but since the turbos have been moved to better location, it is now a mute point. The Parking/emergency brake always worked fine and still does.

 

[GTS-R 001]

6. How much of the rear wheel well battery box needto be modified to give clearance for the hot pipes to the turbos and how will it beheat shielded to not melt the plastic? How will a fabrication 'noob' likemyself know how much to cut out? Will you provide some kind of template foreach side? Does the heat from the hot pipeshave any chance to melt the rear bumper? I know you have been driving around alot without the bumper, so I would like to know how many miles you have drivenwith everything in place to make sure this will be safe for anybody purchasingyour system. Some pictures of how you have accomplished this would be greatlyappreciated. Modifications like this on cars in the general sense look cool,but the practical aspect of all the little details to make this function likestock are sometimes more difficult than they might seem on the surface. Theysay the devil is in the details

The Battery no longer needs to be relocated, for development of the kit it worked out great moving it as it got it out of the way for the time being but with the positioning revision of the Turbos, it is no longer necessary so it will not be part of the install. I have put over 2000 miles on the system, both highway and city, under all sorts of driving conditions and temperatures ranging from 45 degrees to 110 degrees. Needless to say the latest rev does not have the turbos any where near the bumper so no need to worry there, and the wheel well liners do not need to be cut any more.

 

[GTS-R 001]

7. How will a fabricating 'noob' like myself be able to cutthe battery box mount off the upper frame rail cleanly and how will I be ableto return the car to stock if I decide to sell the car later on with thebattery mount cut off? Will there be an installation video showing how to dothis? Will you provide some kind of battery mount re-attachment kit for lateron? Can you show some pics of how you have got the battery mounted atthis time? Is this how it will be for buyers of this system? Will it be in thetrunk or will it be in the bumper area? Will I still be able to put my golf bagin the rear hatch area and be able to close the hatch? LOL! People may laugh,but these are practical questions!

The battery no longer needs to be relocated. For a while it ended up in an aluminum battery box in the trunk area but it is moving back to its stock location

 

[GTS-R 001]

8. What is the flow rate for the water pump for the air towater IC? How does it turn on? Will you include a wiring diagram for wiring upthe pump and the boost-a-pump?

Yes, wiring will be outlined for the water pump for the air t water inter-cooler and the Boost-a-pump, which only turns on under boost if needed.

The specs for the Bosch water pump are:

Part number 0 392 022 002
Nominal voltage 5 12 V
Delivery J 1200 g
Delivery pressure d - 0,3 bar
Direction of rotation R
Operating mode S 1
Degree of protection IP 5 K 4B)
Weight approx. 1,0 kg

From what I am told it is the same pump used in factory supercharged mustangs and mercedes, it flows 317 GPH

 

[GTS-R 001]

9. In the second and third picture, where the transmissionmeets the bell housing, it looks like the silicone coupler and piping aretoo bulky to install the driveshaft cover because they will be below theframe rails. Is that just the picture, or can you stuff that pipe in thereenough to install the cover. How does the movement of the engines andtransmissions rubber mounts affect the clearance of these areas of the piping?Will you supply the kit with solid motor and transmission mounts to minimizethis?

The drive shaft cover/underbelly tray fits fine, I can take a few pictures with it in place if you like. I just do not place it back on and off all the time during development, and for pictures... , they would be pretty boring to look at, just a big flat piece of aluminum staring back at you.

 

[GTS-R 001]

10. Final question. When I was doing a oil change recently,I treid to put a piece of 2" piping through the same spot where you runyour 2.5 or 3 inch pipe through the middle of the steering rack to theintercooler and I could not get it to fit.

Can you show a picture of how much needs to be cut out ofthe power steering rack support piece of the frame? This is the only part thatI cannot figure out how I could do the installation for because there is noroom without a lot of cutting. Over the years, I have noticed how Heffner andUR had the pipes from the intercoolers coming more from the outside coming in. Maybe that's why. Hope these questions and concerns are not too overwhelming...
Look forward to your reply.

There is an 3" hole cut into the perforated metal there that is under the steering rack, There is already a hole there but I do cut it larger so a 3" aluminum tube fits there. It takes a couple of minutes to cut with the right tool. It is outlined in the install instructions just how and where.

 

[Supratt6s]

I would like to ask anyone here who speaks poorly on this turbo kit how their self developed turbo kits are progressing? Or how you've tried to do something no one else has accomplished? **Bruce and Kelly**

Until you have first hand knowledge of R&D from a product you've developed for this car community, keep your negative comments to yourself.

 

[JAY]

Glad to hear your putting the battery back to stock location , also impressed with the amount of Detail your putting in !

Great Work Steve !!!

 

[1Need4Speed]

Thank you for the responses, everything sounds great Please post updated pic's of the new turbo placement as requested. Looking forward to seeing what you have come up with.
Your concerns are reasonable but PM would do you better when responding personally when I'm approaching from a business standpoint.
Yes Paolo and I are good friends however you are talking about events that occurred two years ago on the two threads you posted.
I have a couple new toys since then

 

[Moundir]

:lol: Steve is such a hack.

What's with the hating? Let's see pics of the turbo system you've developed? Is there something we're missing here? Hell most big name tuner cars are hacked to s#it for the sake of time and cost reducing purposes! Havent you heard, The fastest way around a turn is a straight line

 

[GTS-R 001]

What's with the hating? Let's see pics of the turbo system you've developed? Is there something we're missing here? Hell most big name tuner cars are hacked to s#it for the sake of time and cost reducing purposes! Havent you heard, The fastest way around a turn is a straight line

Moundir,

You are quite correct, most tuners find a guinea pig and make the guinea pig pay for the development, I paid the pipe and did it all on my own car and in about 1/4 the time some tuners have taken to NOT deliver a customer car.

 

[kllymartin]

Hating? That's funny. Why would I want to develop something when there are so many proven systems out there? <<<rhetorical
The phrase "work smarter, not harder" comes to mind.
I've owned a Heffner TT and had 2 different RSI TT installs on two different cars.

Haven't you heard? You don't know squat. And this unproven moving target of a TT kit, looks like Ebay trash from any angle you force yourself to look at it.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Hating? That's funny. Why would I want to develop something when there are so many proven systems out there? <<<rhetorical
The phrase "work smarter, not harder" comes to mind.
I've owned a Heffner TT and had 2 different RSI TT installs on two different cars.

Haven't you heard? You don't know squat. And this unproven moving target of a TT kit, looks like Ebay trash from any angle you force yourself to look at it.

Kelly,


I will be releasing my air to air Gen 3 and my air to air Gen 2 systems shortly.

Thanks for you comments on this kit, you must be a good role model for somebody, somewhere....

My turbo kits will be a superior value and package to anything else available in the market.

 

[Moundir]

Hating? That's funny. Why would I want to develop something when there are so many proven systems out there? <<<rhetorical
The phrase "work smarter, not harder" comes to mind.
I've owned a Heffner TT and had 2 different RSI TT installs on two different cars.

Haven't you heard? You don't know squat. And this unproven moving target of a TT kit, looks like Ebay trash from any angle you force yourself to look at it.

Maybe not everyone wants to drop off their cars for 6-12 months and take one in the **** at the end of their journey? maybe you do, and thats great for you, but don't knock on a person for trying to make a living offering something new and different! There's a big difference between constructive criticism and hatin and if you quit your nut swinging for just a minute you'd see that you are a hater! Why, I'll tell you. All you tuner nut swinging jockeys are the same! You all are threatened by another shop offering something different that can challenge you and your manhood, especially if it costs wayy less than you got bent over for so you don't like his system or the way it looks, good for you! But didn't your mama ever tell you that if you don't have something nice to say, keep your mouth shut?! Just sayin

 

[Matt162]

I cant say im the biggest fan of the looks, but im sure it performs....What is the fuel system look like on the car?