New garage floor--pock marks-normal?

[viperdrummer]

My concrete floor was poured 2 weeks ago. There are a few spots on the surface that have pock marks and a little loose concrete. My contractor says it is normal and he can smooth it over

Anyone had this issue/Is it normal? Thanks

 

[plumcrazy]

he can patch it but IMO, not supposed to be that way.

its from poorly finishing it.

 

[ViperTony]

Poor finish work most likely. Post some pics.

 

[DeLViper]

That's a bad finish, and if he's just going to smooth it over, it's just going to paste it which eventually will come right up. The results will be scaling or spalling once you drive over it.

Another thing, if there are poor consolidation within the concrete, meaning mostly paste on top rather than aggregates, it will lead to more failure and hairline crack will form.

My suggestion is to have it cored out and see what it looks like, if too much paste is on the surface, have them tear it out and replace.

 

[viperdrummer]

Pics--these tend to make it look worse than in person but interested in thoughts.

 

[DeLViper]

Pics--these tend to make it look worse than in person but interested in thoughts.

That is just plain lousy work! I would have them either take a core sample of that spot and see what the core sample looks like. Otherwise, that's going to continue to spall. Just bad workmanship.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

I'm no expert, but that looks really bad. I wouldn't be pleased at all.

 

[Panzer]

Yeah your gonna be tearin that out and fixing it. I could do a better job than that and I have.

 

[VIPER PIT]

There many variables that cause this
1 weather, temperature wind and humidity
2 water to cement ratio
3 placement techniques

If the contractor added more water to the truck once it has arrived on site the plant is no longer responsible for the specified compressive strength of the mix. This burden would now fall on the contractor as far as responsibility. Ask the plant for the batch ticket. It will show the ordered design mix, and would also show if any water was added on site. They will HAVE to document any additional water if it was added post plant batching. Also look at the time stamp on the batch ticket and see how long it was in the truck prior to placement.
Most of that damage is from spraying water on the concrete surface during the finishing process. The concrete might of started to set to quickly so the finishers did this to aid in the troweling process. The problem is it dilutes the Portland cement paste and it cannot hold the finer sand aggregates together.
The surface will actually rub off on your shoes. Best fix is to get a coring company to get a core and do a compressive test. Look for 3000 psi minimum. If it passes then you can proceed to finish it. You will most likely to do an overlaymeny system to stop this. This will entail an acid wash to remove loose debris then power wash it and neutralize it. Have a qualified concrete overlayment applicator perform a 1/4" - 1/2" cementitious overpayment then stain nit or stamp it for a decorative finish.
A source for information is the American concrete institute or aka. ACI. For specs.
Another for overlayment systems is L.M. scofield company or Increte systems.
Need more info PM me and I can point you in the right direction.

 

[BlknBlu]

Have a building inspector look at it.

Bruce

 

[musclenutz]

Did you use wire ,or was it re-enforced concrete (or both)? Just looks like the mix was wrong to me. Shouldn't flake or look like that either way. How cold out when they poured it? Could it have frozen before setting up? Like BLKnBLU suggested,Call the buidling inspector. Good luck!

 

[ViperTony]

That's really bad.

 

[TowDawg]

No way that would fly in my garage! That looks awful and I would be worried if he just basically patched it up and put a skim coat on, it's just going to crumble and fall apart in time.
That ***** it happened and getting it right will be a pain in the ass, but it looks like the whole thing needs to be dug out and re-poured.

 

[Mopar488]

I just had a floor poured in my new garage this summer and I did not have anything like that. I would be up somebody's **** for that. I did not have any concrete re-work at all, it looked great. I let it cure for 60 days and painted it with 2 part epoxy.

 

[Steve-Indy]

In my opinion, if your construction folks will not step up, remove that slab, and pour a new one for you...it's attorney time.

 

[chiefchad]

VIPERPIT gave some really good info in his post. I will add one more thing - it looks to me that the concrete mix is contaminated - either poor water quality or poor aggregate with high iron content. It almost seems like their is a possiblity of a mineral that is reacting with the cement. You see that rust discolouration - that aint right. If this is the case it is not the contractors fault as he didn't make the mix - that is of course if he ordered the concrete by truck. If it was mixed on site by the contractor - if you are on a well with heavy mineral content - this can happen. Even if the concrete mix was correct, spraying down the concrete after set (as long as it is set this is standard procedure)then the water from the hose, if not pure, could cause this if sprayed on too early. Can you please confirm that this concrete was indeed brought in by mixing truck and not mixed on site. This is important info in diagnosing this problem.
Please advise.

The other thing, and it is hard to tell from the pic, is did he seal the concrete right away with a sealer? The second pic almost looks like that is the case. Please let us know that as well, cause if that is the case, then I will speculate on another theory.

The bad news - you will not be able to correct this problem with a trowel coat. You will either need to jackhammer that up and start new (not fun) or tile or racedeck the floor.

 

[viperdrummer]

Thanks for all the comments and help.

My guy is solid and I think it was an example of bad timing--the night they poured it went way down in temp. He builds hundreds of garages and has a good rep. He will make it right.

And, if, God forbid" it ever gets to "attorney time"--that is easy for me. (I have almost 1000 in my office) But, I don't pull the attorney card easily or quickly.

Thanks again.

 

[georgethedog]

Pics--these tend to make it look worse than in person but interested in thoughts.

Mine did that and they tore it out and put in a new one. It will crumble until it is rubble unless it comes out. That is what my contractor said and they replaced it. Good luck. By the way, he said it was a bad mixture.

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

Agree, remove and replace. It will continue to flake apart.
FYI,
I had a driveway replaced and after the finishers were done they sprayed Diesel fuel over the surface. I asked why. The contractor took me next door and showed me gray "liver" spots on my neighbors driveway. He said, you wait three weeks and your driveway will be all white. No dark spots.
He was right.

 

[snakebitdave]

I had "pock marks" everywhere on a concrete floor that appeared to be bubbles. The upper surface of the "bubble" was very thin; perhaps a sixteenth of an inch. A light tap with a hammer would break them. The concret was poured in via a pump. I attributed it to air induced into the concrete from the pumping action but not sure of that. I didn't pursue it because it is in my pole barn where I store my outdoor implements.

 

[past ohio]

Agree with most other posts to date....looks like it almost rained on the slab as it was curing....if you ever wanted to put a 2 post lift in your new man cave, I would be concerned that it is a high enough PSI to hold the bolts...someone previous said 3000 I think at least...

 

[chiefchad]

viperdrummer - thats all good and dandy the contractor said he would make it right - but the cause and/or negligence is still up for debate. I'm not suggesting your contractor isn't a solid guy because I don't know him BUT a seasoned concrete contractor knows that if you are going to have a severe drop in temp - you need to tarp the slab and heat the area with propane space heaters. You can't let uncured concrete freeze period. A small drop below zero is fine as the concrete radiates heat itself through the cure process which is a chemical reaction.

The other thing is, and as I mentioned in another thread, is that concrete cannot be sealed with a sealer immediately. As the slab cures it exudes mineral salts called effervescence. Sealing prematuredly prevents this mineral/pressure release and results in spalling/flaking. It almost looks like this floor has been sealed. I'm not trying to be a smartass, just being a wannabe detective and solve this heinous crime

 

[Black Moon]

Pics--these tend to make it look worse than in person but interested in thoughts.

Didn't read all the thread about freezing.

Call a testing lab and spend $500 to have it tested if your guy doesn't want to fix it. You'll need evidence in court. If it tests ok have your contractor pay to have the floor coated with one of the industrial coatings that are available.

Sorry you had the problem

 

[Canyon707]

The problem with the slab is that it was either poured to wet and or jitter bugged (TO PUSH THE ROCKS DOWN) this causes the surface to become soft and can cause scaling where the top surface comes off under traffic. Let it cure out for a couple months and then have the top Stonhard. They will grind up the surface first before applying. The contractor should be responsibe for the placement and the finish. It's to bad that happened. I don't think it's attorney time as nobody wins that race. Try to settle up. As for mounting a lift in the garage 2500 psi which is called 5 sack mix should be stron enough since the lifts have fairly large plates. It would have been better to use stap bolts where the unit was going but, todays bolts and todays epoxys are very strong. We use them where we need to add holdowns to framed walls that are on pld foundations.

 

[plumcrazy]

id punch the concrete right in the mouth if he thought i was that stupid to believe THAT Was normal work.

that is flat out horrible work by another so called contractor.

like canyon said, the finshers brought too much cream to the top of the concrete. make him do an ardex type material on top to finish it. anyone that bad at finishing concrete is very aware of this material. especially a self leveling so he cant screw up the finishing again.

ARDEX Engineered Cements

if you need help finding a distributor, i know of at least one in your area, let me know and i can have them call you. they might even know an installer to do it right. this way you can back charge the first dope.

 

[PDCjonny]

I'm going to be pouring my slab as soon as the temps rise a bit around here but I'm prepared with insulating blankets, kerosene blowers and completely sealing the garage up. Have no choice gotta do it. Oh boy...

 

[viperdrummer]

Guys--wow, God almighty. I have never gotten this many posts over ANTHING. Not a 2010 FE, a 92 low VIN, a Ford GT--you name it.

You guys are passionate about your garages. I appreciate the helpful comments. It will be fine even if we end pulling up the entire floor which I doubt.

My guy is good-- we just had some bad circumstances. He is not a crook or screwy. I used to practice construction law so I am not worried about it. I just needed some concrete advice and as usual we had several guys here who know their stuff. Thanks a bunch.

 

[VIPER PIT]

As more info about weather conditions came to light I think I figured it out. If the temps did drop as radically as you said, when concrete gets close to or at the freezing mark the chemical curing process in concrete stops. At this point bleed water will rise to the surface and puddle diluting the surface cement paste causing the spalling you now see. When temps rise again the curing process resumes and will continue to harden to the 28th day. If you want to test it, cores are tested at the 7th, 14th, and 28th day as industry standards Without cold weather pouring precautions this will happen. When we pour in cold temps we have to add accelerants such as calcium chloride and tarp the slab during the cure time to protect it. I learned the hard way some 20 plus ago. The good thing is it usually does not affect the psi strength of the concrete, cold curing is actually better than the early drying out experienced in the summer months. The best route would be to approach the contractor and maybe split the cost of a coating process and dress up your garage floor at the same time.

 

[slysnake]

At this point bleed water will rise to the surface and puddle diluting the surface cement paste causing the spalling you now see

Yes, my first thought when I looked at the pix was it got rained on, but this makes sense.

 

[AviP]

That looks like my 45 year old floor. Definitely a bad mix and/or poor curing. The rest will just peel off with hot tires and heavy wear. I bet if you test it with your thumb, you can turn the top layer to powder. That CANNOT be fixed without taking the entire top layer off. If you haven't paid him fully, DON'T. If you have paid him, ask for a refund or tell him you will take him to small claims court.