No more videos guys :(

[Y2K5SRT]

Well, since nobody else seems to want to step up to the plate and answer for the "other side", I suppose I will speak on their behalf.

First off, let me say that I personally LOVE the videos and download every single one of them. My sons like 'em too, assuming the passenger isn't screaming obscenities like no tomorrow (which they usually do anyway). Gerald's, Mike's - they are all a blast, especially getting to be inside some of these modified beasts while our tame Vipers sit in the garage. So, is it a matter of some people not liking to watch the video? ABSOLUTELY NOT. As one of the e-mails we received encouraged us to "please forward to anyone you feel appropriate", I consider you guys (and gals) to be "appropriate". Here is what it said, in part:

I'm amazed that the club allows 'kill videos' and the like to be posted. This is per se illegal activity. What would happen if someone went out in their Viper tonight and found someone to street race and ran over someone in a cross walk doing 100 or so? In the police interview they mention the VCA and the investigator ends up meeting with the families attorney and they check out the VCA website and sees not one but many posts about street racing - even with videos! Do you think the club might get sued as part of a wrongful death suit by the victims family? I sure do, and I'm emailing you about it because I don't want it to happen to the club.

So, there you have it. And how does this impact what can and cannot be posted? Well, as you are aware, the board has always discouraged "kill stories" when posted as such. The introduction of the term "closed course" became a tongue-in-cheek heads up, much like that good ol' "soup" for you old timers. Many threads managed to stay alive in that respect, even though they probably should have been addressed.

"But what about the power of the people?!" "The Corvette Forum allows this and even has a section for it!" "I say let's put it to a vote!" Unfortunately, that is not how it works. Don't get me wrong, we ALL have a voice on this board. The inherent problem is the very nature of this board: It is run and sponsored by the Viper Club of America (VCA), which in turn is supported very heavily by Dodge and numerous other vendors. So what? Well, your other forums, including "the alley" and the Corvette forums, are "freelance" - they have no direct ties to the manufacturer of the vehicle being discussed.

Okay Chris, so what the hell does THAT mean? In a nutshell: Liability. Does Smith & Wesson (the gun manufacturer) sponsor a forum? No. If they did, do you think they would allow people to boast of the people they recently killed with their Smith & Wesson 5906? Better yet, would they sit by and get a good chuckle out of the video somebody posted of of a few "kills" they got with their new handgun? NOT ON THIS PLANET But hey, that is pretty extreme, right? Yep, but the point is the same whether we like it or not (and in case you haven't noticed, I don't): Street racing is illegal in all 50 states and most of the world. While the crime is not as drastic or the punishment as severe, street racing is just as illegal as ******. There is no such thing as "partially illegal".

The bottom line is that the VCA nor Dodge can endorse illegal activities with their products. Burn out videos? Not illegal to my knowledge. Track videos and drag race videos from the drag strip? All legal and all encouraged. Guys, I love these videos as much as anyone here. Likewise, I suspect that 99% of us would have a VERY difficult time looking the other way if a GT2 pulled up next to us on an open road - even the windbreakers. The problem is that we cannot come to a manufacturer sponsored forum and boast of the results, much less post video. There are plenty of other non-sponsored sites that welcome this stuff such as "the alley" (Smokin, we got the point - quit posting it over and over again). I wish there were some other way to address this, but there is not.

I hope this helped answer some questions and am truly sorry I couldn't be of more help. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Chris

PS. I will copy this post to the other threads that have brought up this topic. Also note that multiple topics on the same subject WILL be deleted.

 

[AJT]

It is like TV, if you do not like the show, TURN THE CHANNEL. If you do not like the videos, do not open it!

I don't understand, it's pretty [******] simple. Some people have too much time on their fu@*ing hands. Does anybody know what the name of the other viper board is??

Andy

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Does anybody know what the name of the other viper board is??

Andy

Here you go Andy- www. viper alley . com

Just take out the spaces.

 

[AJT]

Thanks Jerome,

Andy

 

[SmokinV10]

Well, since nobody else seems to want to step up to the plate and answer for the "other side", I suppose I will speak on their behalf.

First off, let me say that I personally LOVE the videos and download every single one of them. My sons like 'em too, assuming the passenger isn't screaming obscenities like no tomorrow (which they usually do anyway). Gerald's, Mike's - they are all a blast, especially getting to be inside some of these modified beasts while our tame Vipers sit in the garage. So, is it a matter of some people not liking to watch the video? ABSOLUTELY NOT. As one of the e-mails we received encouraged us to "please forward to anyone you feel appropriate", I consider you guys (and gals) to be "appropriate". Here is what it said, in part:

I'm amazed that the club allows 'kill videos' and the like to be posted. This is per se illegal activity. What would happen if someone went out in their Viper tonight and found someone to street race and ran over someone in a cross walk doing 100 or so? In the police interview they mention the VCA and the investigator ends up meeting with the families attorney and they check out the VCA website and sees not one but many posts about street racing - even with videos! Do you think the club might get sued as part of a wrongful death suit by the victims family? I sure do, and I'm emailing you about it because I don't want it to happen to the club.

So, there you have it. And how does this impact what can and cannot be posted? Well, as you are aware, the board has always discouraged "kill stories" when posted as such. The introduction of the term "closed course" became a tongue-in-cheek heads up, much like that good ol' "soup" for you old timers. Many threads managed to stay alive in that respect, even though they probably should have been addressed.

"But what about the power of the people?!" "The Corvette Forum allows this and even has a section for it!" "I say let's put it to a vote!" Unfortunately, that is not how it works. Don't get me wrong, we ALL have a voice on this board. The inherent problem is the very nature of this board: It is run and sponsored by the Viper Club of America (VCA), which in turn is supported very heavily by Dodge and numerous other vendors. So what? Well, your other forums, including "the alley" and the Corvette forums, are "freelance" - they have no direct ties to the manufacturer of the vehicle being discussed.

Okay Chris, so what the hell does THAT mean? In a nutshell: Liability. Does Smith & Wesson (the gun manufacturer) sponsor a forum? No. If they did, do you think they would allow people to boast of the people they recently killed with their Smith & Wesson 5906? Better yet, would they sit by and get a good chuckle out of the video somebody posted of of a few "kills" they got with their new handgun? NOT ON THIS PLANET But hey, that is pretty extreme, right? Yep, but the point is the same whether we like it or not (and in case you haven't noticed, I don't): Street racing is illegal in all 50 states and most of the world. While the crime is not as drastic or the punishment as severe, street racing is just as illegal as ******. There is no such thing as "partially illegal".

The bottom line is that the VCA nor Dodge can endorse illegal activities with their products. Burn out videos? Not illegal to my knowledge. Track videos and drag race videos from the drag strip? All legal and all encouraged. Guys, I love these videos as much as anyone here. Likewise, I suspect that 99% of us would have a VERY difficult time looking the other way if a GT2 pulled up next to us on an open road - even the windbreakers. The problem is that we cannot come to a manufacturer sponsored forum and boast of the results, much less post video. There are plenty of other non-sponsored sites that welcome this stuff such as "the alley" (Smokin, we got the point - quit posting it over and over again). I wish there were some other way to address this, but there is not.

I hope this helped answer some questions and am truly sorry I couldn't be of more help. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Chris

PS. I will copy this post to the other threads that have brought up this topic. Also note that multiple topics on the same subject WILL be deleted.

Let me summarize my take on this..... Dodge is more important than the opinions and VOTES people who pay $100 a year and buy $70K cars and that there is a spin and an excuse for everything. Did I get that right?

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Thanks Jerome,

Andy

You are very welcome Andy.

Come and join us where it is still the good old U.S. of A. and you still have the right to freedom of speech.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Vic]

I was getting a kick out of Moundirs' videos. Thats one of the fun things about the internet, sharing cool stuff like that. Now what? No videos? Sounds pretty lame....

 

[Austin]

Whats next? We wont be able to share PICS?




Austin

 

[vipah]

Y2k3SRT:

Seems that the Viperclub is worried about liability here. Why not have a disclaimer that the Viper Club is not responsible for the views expressed on the message board? If the Club is not hosting the material in question where is the liability?

If the club is so concerned about liability in this regard they need to investigate all posts. Does the club do this for all the products? Do you think there is liability to the club if the information posted about a product turns out not to be correct?

Your analogy of Smith and Wesson is absurd.

Burn outs are illegal in many states.

Maybe Dodge needs to limit HP of the Viper to prevent anyone from going over the speed limit so they don't incur any liability.

 

[Flyin Phil]

I really enjoy viewing both drag and road racing videos. I have downloaded a large number of these from this site for later repeat viewing. However, when I downloaded and viewed a street racing video where the exhibiting car was passing in the breakdown lane and crashed into the guardrail, all I could think was 'Serves the idiot right! Better him than the family in the SUV...".

If you want to see videos of illegal street racing and/or **** babes, go somewhere else and quit whining about how your 'rights' are being infringed upon at this site. The argument has gotten quite old and boring.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

For PaulB...Zaino'ing my poser rotors...

You must be registered for see images

LOL Gerald you have way too much time on your hands.

 

[vipah]

Phil,

I guess you must be the person that writes the rules for everyone and tells us all what can and can not see or do.

Thanks.

Is the club for the members or not. This is the question that needs to be answered. If not then the owners are free to do as they wish.

By the way, do the paying members get a year end accounting snapshot for where all the money is spent etc? Just curious.

 

[Gerald]

Y2k3SRT:

Seems that the Viperclub is worried about liability here. Why not have a disclaimer that the Viper Club is not responsible for the views expressed on the message board? If the Club is not hosting the material in question where is the liability?

If the club is so concerned about liability in this regard they need to investigate all posts. Does the club do this for all the products? Do you think there is liability to the club if the information posted about a product turns out not to be correct?

Your analogy of Smith and Wesson is absurd.

Burn outs are illegal in many states.

Maybe Dodge needs to limit HP of the Viper to prevent anyone from going over the speed limit so they don't incur any liability.

Vipah, SO well said. Much better than my rant on the other thread.


Just goes to show you what ONE LIBERAL CAN DO TO A WHOLE INTERNET "THINGY".. !!!


Gerald

 

[Gerald]

I really enjoy viewing both drag and road racing videos. I have downloaded a large number of these from this site for later repeat viewing. However, when I downloaded and viewed a street racing video where the exhibiting car was passing in the breakdown lane and crashed into the guardrail, all I could think was 'Serves the idiot right! Better him than the family in the SUV...".

If you want to see videos of illegal street racing and/or **** babes, go somewhere else and quit whining about how your 'rights' are being infringed upon at this site. The argument has gotten quite old and boring.

WONDERFUL! Ones person view!!! yaaaaay. looks like your in the minority. how about you go somewhere else? Oh, forgot my smiley..

 

[Flyin Phil]

vipah, sorry, I stand corrected and obviously outnumbered.

 

[SmokinV10]

The argument has gotten quite old and boring.

Lets not confuse self-images with "the argument".

Seems that the windbreakers hold censorship and vendor endorsement to be values greater than Freedom of Speech, Due Process, and Democracy. What great Americans.

 

[vipah]

Phil,

You are entitled to your opinions. I think you have helped bring out the issue of who makes the rules for the board.

How is the whether in NH these days? Too bad about the Old Man of the Mountain.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I see 2 points of consistency:

The VCA and the board reinforcing the no kill/street racing philosophy for this board.

The Viper Alley crew making it sound like a federal crime and invoking all sorts of privelege arguments.

Given that liability issues, and indications that other major car boards have or are removing their kill sections for the very same liability reasons, why continue to make a public issue of this. Accept it and go on with life. There are plenty of alternative methods like the alley that don't require all the political bs.

Most of us went through the wars last year. Let's not repeat that senseless waste of bandwidth.

 

[Flyin Phil]

vipah, thanks.
Weather is VERY hot and muggy, but I'm about to head back to Florida to retrieve my RT/10. Once I get back, I'm sure it'll rain for a month or so. As for the Old Man dropping dead, it was really one of those unbelieveable experiences. We (the resident of beautiful New Hampster) all knew the Old Man was held together with glue and chicken wire, but we never really thought he'd drop.

 

[SmokinV10]

I see 2 points of consistency:

The VCA and the board reinforcing the no kill/street racing philosophy for this board.

The Viper Alley crew making it sound like a federal crime and invoking all sorts of privelege arguments.

Given that liability issues, and indications that other major car boards have or are removing their kill sections for the very same liability reasons, why continue to make a public issue of this. Accept it and go on with life. There are plenty of alternative methods like the alley that don't require all the political bs.

Most of us went through the wars last year. Let's not repeat that senseless waste of bandwidth.

The "viper alley crew" is not invoking privelidge arguments. This is the same liberal banter used by tree-huggers to take away the rights of citizens over and over again. We are just pointing out the obvious. That this is again an unwarranted, example of overmmoderation without representation of the memberships requests. Moreover the liability issue is flawed. What happens if someone reads about aftermarket exhausts on this website and goes have them added. Then sues the website to have it remvoed becuase it violated emissions laws? What happens if the same happened with a heads cam package? What happens if someone installs a nitrous system after reading about it here and didnt install a blow down tube and died of N02 poisoning? What happens if someone used non-DOT approved Teamtech harnesses and died in an accident? What happens IF IF IF IF IF? Common sense and logic people. But of course the liberals here are void of that concept...as usual.

 

[utahviper]

I am at a loss here!! Don't we have the snake pit?? Doesn't it talk about off the wall things legal and not legal?? Does Dodge or the VCA claim responsibility for what is said there?? Like, lets kill Saddam or whatever?? So if the people of Iraq read this and he does get killed then they will hold the VCA and Dodge responsible?? I don't think so! What is wrong with posting videos? Do you really think someone will post a video of someone getting run over by a viper @ 100MPH?? I think that should be banned!

If dodge was responsible for everything said or done on this board then what happen to the compensation for the people who aren't satisfied with tuners work? (H M S) Among others? By banning people from the board does that really decrease their responsiblity for what has already been posted?

AM I to understand that each of these posts is read by a lawyer from dodge to see if they have any reponsiblity.

Since they have read all about my SC'er install then I should hold them liable if the car blows up because they let me post it? I wish, but I don't think that will happen.

Post those videos and listen to your members and owners.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I am as conservative as it gets. The perspective that you are preaching is far left.

Yes, all those innocent people that get killed by your illegal exhaust will come hunting you down and looking for money. Same argument for strapping on the 5 points. Note that 5 point belt systems generally do not mandate removal of the OEM belts.

 

[V10 MOJO]

i dont know the details nor do i give a **** (as my opinion or my knowing more wouldnt make a bit of difference anyway) but, this is a perfect example of why ive not renewed my VCA in two yrs. how limp****** do you truly need to be to do something like ban videos of americas flagship musclecar on a site dedicated to the very same car. as for old farts being the problem, im sure age has nothing to do with it as you can be an asssclown at 18 or at 80. sounds to me like a few individuals simply need a good slap upside the head to instill some common sense.

 

[Joseph Houss]

Wow, this is like old times! Lots of controversy on this one... suprising, since this was an issue that was voted on many years ago at a National meeting of all the Presidents.

All had agreed that it was in our best interest, and with respect to Dodge, and our members, and with intentions of avoiding any issue of potentially aiding in the fining (or even worse) of any poster, we would prohibit any "kill" stories or videos.

I believe at the time this was presented, there was a video being sold on the web that showed someone traveling at 200mph+ speed, and the driver, due to this video, was actually arrested.

How 'bout we move this discussion to Board and Site suggestions?

 

[Seifer]

The problem I see with the Smith & Wesson and the 'posting videos where we ran over ppl and killed them' is that its an almost apples and oranges analogy. Meaning, nobody in the racing videos were killed, much less MEANT to be killed (like running them over or shooting them with a gun would be).




Also since 'sponsors' were brought up, just think how many more 'hits' this site/forums will get when more interesting subjects are brought up (such as racing,etc). That means more money, for everyone.

 

[ViperGTS]

autobahn!

Speed limit? What does it mean?
))

 

[joe117]

Perhaps it's because I'm an older guy. Perhaps it's because I read newspapers and listen to and watch political talk shows.
Whatever the reason, I see this liability issue as a real problem. It's not something that is out of the realm of possibility.
Before I go on, believe me guys, I'm no liberal or tree hugger.

Do you guys remember the big night club fire that took place a couple of months ago? Well, the people who owned the club also owned a Shell gas station, they had an poster in the gas station window and handed out flyers for the club at the station.
Who do you think was recently added to the list of people who are being sued?.......That's right, SHELL OIL!

Whenever there is a big deal liability case, the lawyers look hard for folks with deep pockets that they can add to the target list. This is real, it's not just some old guy crap.

Here's the scenario. A Viper driver is street racing. While racing, some guy in a tour bus pulls out in front of him. It's not the Vipers fault but the bus is hit, catches fire, and 40 people are killed in the fire.
The Viper driver is dead, he had insurance with a max of half a million. The bus company had coverage of 10 million. How many people are going to sue? Probably over 100.

This is a BIG case. A law firm takes it and wants to get 10 million for each person who had been wronged. They can't get it from the Viper or the bus. Do you think that they will look for ways to tie DC to this?
Do you think that they are smart enough to find the VCA website?
Well guys, how much more real does it sound now?
It's not a question of anyones rights, it's liability and in this day and age in the USA that's the truth.

 

[vipah]

Joe,

Where is the liabilty? If there is a good disclaimer on the content of the board then the VCA is covered. Will someone sue, sure it is the American way unfortunately.

What about insurance fraud? How many people on the board talk about "not damaging a car on the track, wink wink"? But how is this the VCA issue?

I would just like someone to clearly link the true liability, not whether someone might sue.

 

[AJT]

Blood Sucking lawyers. This country has gone "lawsuit Crazy".

Andy

 

[joe117]

There isn't any law I know of that spells out liability.
I think it's simply a question of who can convince a jury.
Can you picture Johnny Cochroach, the lawyer, showing the videos to the jury and pointing out that DC was involved in the website where they came from.
DC, the company that makes a 500hp car for the street?

Do you think the jury would think DC made the 500hp car for driving at the speed limit?

Do you think the jury would feel like DC couldn't afford it?

Look, I'm not a lawyer but even I could get a jury to pay out on that one.