No Quality Control on New Vipers

[VIPER GTSR 91]

At the end of the day, you still have an amazing looking viper. But, I know how you feel, when my ACR was delivered, I found a big chip on the mirror under the clearbra. I know it was not from CAAP,nor woodhouse, I called Mark J and he said send it back and he will take care of it. That was back in October, but I am too lazy to take the mirror off.

Thanks for the compliment, as is your ACR. Mark J. is very helpful and I am fortunate to also have a real stand up svc. manager too. The best I have ever dealt with locally!! He really cares and goes beyond the call of duty. Great dealership all around.

 

[gb66gth]

The paint/quality on my '05 was great. My '08 *****! I can see a couple of places that were just not attended to well at Saleen,the people who paint the body panels for CAAP. I think my car must have been built on a Monday morning before everyone had their coffee or on a Friday when they were already thinking about the weekend. Little things, like the widget that hangs your gas cap onto the filler neck when you unscrew it, never put on the car. There on my '05 not there on my '08! Plus the tank slow fills, which aggrevates me to no end.Come on guys, it's a $90K vehicle!

 

[viperdrummer]

Wow, no wonder their going out of business. No quality control. I buy a new 2009 Viper today and when I get home I find 3 small stains on the hood (hopefully just in the clear coat otherwise I will demand a new hood-no re paints on a brand new car). Then while cleaning out the brake dust on the wheels just now I see where someone took sand paper or something and has scratched a large area inside the wheel. Bottom line: if you are planning on buying a new Viper, look it over with a fine tooth comb BEFORE you buy it. I am soooo glad I did not buy the car from a dealer outside my area to get all this fixed. My 99 was perfect. Guess the factory guys are all ********** with their pay cuts.

It is a shame to disparage the factory workers when there is no proof they had any role in this. I have bought many Vipers and Vettes and the "problems" you describe sound dealer related--perhaps caused by a teenage detail guy in the back--not a highly trained factory worker with a lot of pride who is dealing with a shutdown and might be wondering how he will be feeding his family in a few months.

This is why I always tell dealers just leave it like it is off the truck. I remove all stickers etc and detail it myself.

No one likes paying a bunch of bucks (I just did on an 09) only to have issues. But I tend to agree with Jon it may not be fair to pin this on the guys at CAAP.

 

[luc]

Driving my new 00GTS from the dealer to my home (300 miles trip) I noticed a LOT of noise coming from the top of the windshield.
The next morning I went to my local Dodge dealer, explained the problem and took the sevice manager for a ride.
He agreed with me and told me they "will look at it".
I left the car there and came back by the end of the day to see if they had made any progess in their diagnostic.
I saw my car parked in the lot, with the driver side window down, huge greasy handprints all over the car and MUD on the driver side footwell.
Needless to say that I gave an hearfull to the service manager, refused his "offer" to wash/detail the car and drove it straight back home.
The following day I made an appointment at my shop with a local glass service to come to remove the windshield and cleaned my car waiting for the guy to show up.
On arrival, the guy told me that they did not have a windshield in stock and since most of the time removing a windshield break it, i could be a few days without my car.
I told it that it was OK and he started to slide a cutting knife between the windshield and A pillar on the driver side.
Seeing him making a weird face I asked him what was the problem and he responded by saying that it felt like there was no sealant at all!!!
To make a long story short, he was able to remove the windshield without breaking it since the craftpersons at CAAP forgot not only to put sealant on BOTH SIDES and TOP but also forgot to test the car for water leak ( once the trim removed you could see daylight between the windshield and frame)
The "funny" part is that both the local dealer, the selling dealer and Doge customer Service tried to give me a hard time when I asked to be reimbursed for the guy service/labor until I filed a complain with the NHTSA since the windshield, when correctly "glued" is an important part of the vehicle structural integrity.
All that to say that I'm not sure that the quality was better B4.
The Viper is really a factory designed "kit car" and if you were to remove all the shims that are nessecary to deal with poor tolerances and parts QC, your viper will be 10 lbs lighter.
In defense of the CAAP workers, the kit car nature of the Viper, make them a lot harder and complicated to assemble that any other "factory produced" cars
Luc 00GTS

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Just got the new Car and Driver (March 09). Read it. Front cover, "600 hp club" comparo. Vette ZR 1 rated no. 1 and Viper no. 4 out of four. Fit and finish was the worst on the Viper at 6 out of 10. Hmmm. Hi-jackers have at it. Yes, I will still take the Viper.

 

[RoadiJeff]

To make a long story short, he was able to remove the windshield without breaking it since the craftpersons at CAAP forgot not only to put sealant on BOTH SIDES and TOP but also forgot to test the car for water leak ( once the trim removed you could see daylight between the windshield and frame)

Interesting story. BTW, a robot puts the sealer bead on the windshield and another one installs it on the vehicle - it is not done by human hands.

Not sure about the water test. At the facility where I worked a water test was done on a handful of vehicles selected at random but not every single one.

 

[Martin]

Just got the new Car and Driver (March 09). Read it. Front cover, "600 hp club" comparo. Vette ZR 1 rated no. 1 and Viper no. 4 out of four. Fit and finish was the worst on the Viper at 6 out of 10. Hmmm. Hi-jackers have at it. Yes, I will still take the Viper.

I'm sure it will all be made right - but I feel for you. Finding that kind of stuff today is just like getting fired on a Friday - the worst possible day because you have the whole weekend to mull it over and are powerless to do anything about it (service dept is closed just like it is impossible to go out interviewing for a new job over the weekend). At least tomorrow you can go out and drive the heck out of that car like it was built for Break it in nice first, though... I might end up buying it someday.

 

[J&R3xV10]

Wow, no wonder their going out of business. No quality control. I buy a new 2009 Viper today and when I get home I find 3 small stains on the hood (hopefully just in the clear coat otherwise I will demand a new hood-no re paints on a brand new car). Then while cleaning out the brake dust on the wheels just now I see where someone took sand paper or something and has scratched a large area inside the wheel. Bottom line: if you are planning on buying a new Viper, look it over with a fine tooth comb BEFORE you buy it. I am soooo glad I did not buy the car from a dealer outside my area to get all this fixed. My 99 was perfect. Guess the factory guys are all ********** with their pay cuts.

Sounds like typical union workers

In all the threads and all the posts that I have seen on this site, these have got to be some of the dumbest comments I have ever seen. I am not trying to start an argument but I have got to say learn a little about what you are talking about before you say something like this. as many have pointed out, the dealer should have done their job and done a full inspection on the car before it was sold and if you have ever been to the plant you would know that they inspect every vehicle thoroughly several times before it is sent to the dealer but it is possible to miss something as they are only human beings. and the comments about the union works is so rediculus. I am not a strong union supporter (even though I am in a union) but again you clearly have no clue about these people. The workers at the Viper plant take their jobs very personaly and are very good at what they do. Remember that they could be in the other plants doing much less. Again to understand any of this you would have to go to the plant. Now all that being said you can just never please everyone, if they raise the level of quality in the vehicle they would raise the price.

I could be wrong but from what I remeber from our last plant tour all vipers are run through a water test.

 

[Viperless]

I highly doubt the car left CAAP with those paint flaws. I went on the factory tour at VOI 10 and had a close look at a car that was set aside to fix a paint flaw. I could barely see anything wrong with the area that was identified as having a flaw. They go over these cars very closely.

 

[jcaspar1]

Stop it! You guys are making me feel old.

I bet they forgot his door handles too! They forgot the power mirrors on my 97!

NO, the CAAP could not of done that. Or could they? Their fanatical.

***!?

 

[jcaspar1]

I guess a Rolls Royce qualifies as a "kit car" too....

Driving my new 00GTS from the dealer to my home (300 miles trip) I noticed a LOT of noise coming from the top of the windshield.
The next morning I went to my local Dodge dealer, explained the problem and took the sevice manager for a ride.
He agreed with me and told me they "will look at it".
I left the car there and came back by the end of the day to see if they had made any progess in their diagnostic.
I saw my car parked in the lot, with the driver side window down, huge greasy handprints all over the car and MUD on the driver side footwell.
Needless to say that I gave an hearfull to the service manager, refused his "offer" to wash/detail the car and drove it straight back home.
The following day I made an appointment at my shop with a local glass service to come to remove the windshield and cleaned my car waiting for the guy to show up.
On arrival, the guy told me that they did not have a windshield in stock and since most of the time removing a windshield break it, i could be a few days without my car.
I told it that it was OK and he started to slide a cutting knife between the windshield and A pillar on the driver side.
Seeing him making a weird face I asked him what was the problem and he responded by saying that it felt like there was no sealant at all!!!
To make a long story short, he was able to remove the windshield without breaking it since the craftpersons at CAAP forgot not only to put sealant on BOTH SIDES and TOP but also forgot to test the car for water leak ( once the trim removed you could see daylight between the windshield and frame)
The "funny" part is that both the local dealer, the selling dealer and Doge customer Service tried to give me a hard time when I asked to be reimbursed for the guy service/labor until I filed a complain with the NHTSA since the windshield, when correctly "glued" is an important part of the vehicle structural integrity.
All that to say that I'm not sure that the quality was better B4.
The Viper is really a factory designed "kit car" and if you were to remove all the shims that are nessecary to deal with poor tolerances and parts QC, your viper will be 10 lbs lighter.
In defense of the CAAP workers, the kit car nature of the Viper, make them a lot harder and complicated to assemble that any other "factory produced" cars
Luc 00GTS

 

[eucharistos]

Almost every car suffers from the dealer prep. Very few dealers have qualified staff washing/waxing/prepping cars.

Over the summer I had my new SL65 at the benz dealer, and they called me to come check out a new SLR that was delivered the previous nite. I arrived a little early walked to the back and I see the lot boy washing the wheels and using the same brush for the body

man, you are too nice

fixed it for ya

 

[Malu59RT]

MARK, Buddy! That's a pretty inflamatory headline vs CAAP ya used there. 27 views and 20 replies!!! And your lead sentence is 'no wonder____" ?!?! YIKES !!!!

The final inspection at CAAP is fanatical. And VIPER historically has had the LOWEST rate of finish-fit-warranty claims in Chrysler's fleet.

A bird-poop at Reliable anytime during delivery or transfer could have caused #1 (Ironic, .... #2 caused # 1!!) Or on a test-drive.

A mis-handled tie-down could have caused #2.

Either way, I BET YOUR DEALER HANDLES IT. Hood blem must be SMALL cause your trained Snake-Eye did not even notice it at the showroom?!

May I respectfully request you ADVANCED EDIT your subject-topic line? Otherwise it will live-on for years AS IS! Misleading many. In my years here this is only the 3rd time Ive suggested a 'self-censorship'. Thanks for reconsidering.

I highly doubt the car left CAAP with those paint flaws. I went on the factory tour at VOI 10 and had a close look at a car that was set aside to fix a paint flaw. I could barely see anything wrong with the area that was identified as having a flaw. They go over these cars very closely.

Hmmm, their QC process isn't perfect by any means. I have several flaws in my paint, and the fact that they forgot to finish out my fenders and hatch really made me mad, once I figured out all the other Viper's had them finished out correctly. I just assumed the paint had gotten much worse, like the Corvettes, and wet sanded my car myself.

A few months later, I found several 08 Vipers with smooth paint finishes. I still have yet to do the area around my licence plate since I don't have a pad small enough to get there. There is hardly any reflection there, because of the amount of orange peel.

See for yourself here:
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...9-sanding-down-my-08-viper-your-thoughts.html

Does this mean I hate my Viper? No. Does this mean I don't appreciate CAAP? No. But no one is going to reimburse me for my time to fix it myself, so I'll just vent here on the boards.

 

[J&R3xV10]

Malu59RT there is a big difference in the way you posted your issues vs the way this thread was posted.

Everyone always wants more from Dodge but how can you expect more from them when stuff like this is posted online??

 

[FLATOUT]

Well I am moving home to Lake Conroe in June, and I am a pro detailer. If your still not happy with it by the time I get back I will look at the hood for you.

Andy

 

[BlknBlu]

Not sure on that one and will never know.

YOu will always know.

Bruce

 

[luc]

We all know that we don't buy a Viper for it's fit and finish or attention to details or refined driving experience but rather for it's performance, look and raw driving experience.
Every car, and the Viper is no exception is built/designed to a price point and Dodge correctly choose to spend the bulk of money on the performance part rather than on the other stuff.
As for my "kit car" comment, it was nothing more than an explanation on how the car need a lot more skills/labor and "adjustments" to make all the parts fit together compared to most other production cars.
Still, in seeing all the shims, zip ties and some "weird" engineering choices (such as having to cut a major body panel to access the fuel pump/tank on a GTS) I wonder if a few more $ and design time would not have been a wise investment.

 

[Totenkopf]

Wow, no wonder their going out of business. No quality control. I buy a new 2009 Viper today and when I get home I find 3 small stains on the hood (hopefully just in the clear coat otherwise I will demand a new hood-no re paints on a brand new car). Then while cleaning out the brake dust on the wheels just now I see where someone took sand paper or something and has scratched a large area inside the wheel. Bottom line: if you are planning on buying a new Viper, look it over with a fine tooth comb BEFORE you buy it. I am soooo glad I did not buy the car from a dealer outside my area to get all this fixed. My 99 was perfect. Guess the factory guys are all ********** with their pay cuts.

It sounds like dealership induced problems to me. I always make the dealerships I buy from put it in writing that they will not wash or prep my car in any way. I waited a year for one car, the place told me it was in, so I went to get it and it was fully prepped including being covered in swirl marks, so I made them order me another one, and that time they remembered not to prep it.

 

[Viperless]

Still, in seeing all the shims, zip ties and some "weird" engineering choices (such as having to cut a major body panel to access the fuel pump/tank on a GTS) I wonder if a few more $ and design time would not have been a wise investment.

You don't have to cut anything to remove the fuel pump on a GTS.

 

[luc]

You don't have to cut anything to remove the fuel pump on a GTS.

Yes, you do, the fuel pump is inside the tank and to acces it and/or remove it on the Gen2 GTS you need to cut a big piece of of the panel that is the front part of the trunk.
Dodge sell a "fuel tank closeout panel" that come with a template to cut the panel and then is pop-riveted/glued in place to cover the big hole left after cutting the panel

 

[Martin]

Yes, you do, the fuel pump is inside the tank and to acces it and/or remove it on the Gen2 GTS you need to cut a big piece of of the panel that is the front part of the trunk.
Dodge sell a "fuel tank closeout panel" that come with a template to cut the panel and then is po-riveted/glued in place to cover the big hole left after cutting the panel

I didn't know that - so you can't pull the whole tank without cutting, either?

 

[Warfang]

Wow, no wonder their going out of business. No quality control. I buy a new 2009 Viper today and when I get home I find 3 small stains on the hood (hopefully just in the clear coat otherwise I will demand a new hood-no re paints on a brand new car). Then while cleaning out the brake dust on the wheels just now I see where someone took sand paper or something and has scratched a large area inside the wheel. Bottom line: if you are planning on buying a new Viper, look it over with a fine tooth comb BEFORE you buy it. I am soooo glad I did not buy the car from a dealer outside my area to get all this fixed. My 99 was perfect. Guess the factory guys are all ********** with their pay cuts.

1999.... height of Viper competition and pride. 2009... bloated union, plant closings and left tattered after Daimler's neglect and Cerberus' bumbling. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[luc]

From the 2000 service manual chapter 14 fuel system:

"..the fuel pump module is suspended in fuel in the fuel tank."

NOTE: The Viper coupe do not have Fuel Tank Closeout Panel.To remove the fuel tank a hole will have to be cut in the trunk pan.

 

[Martin]

From the 2000 service manual chapter 14 fuel system:

"..the fuel pump module is suspended in fuel in the fuel tank."

NOTE: The Viper coupe do not have Fuel Tank Closeout Panel.To remove the fuel tank a hole will have to be cut in the trunk pan.

Then there was definitely a change between my '97 and your '00 - probably because of changing rear-crash test standards. My service manual shows the procedure, and there is an access panel under the trunk carpet that is pop-riveted in place and, unless the manual is wrong, shows that it's pretty easy to remove the pump.

 

[luc]

Then there was definitely a change between my '97 and your '00 - probably because of changing rear-crash test standards. My service manual shows the procedure, and there is an access panel under the trunk carpet that is pop-riveted in place and, unless the manual is wrong, shows that it's pretty easy to remove the pump.

Well, if the manual was wrong that would be another QC problem
Seriously, are you sure that you're looking at the procedure for a Coupe and not for the RT that do indeed have a pop-riveted panel?

 

[X-Metal]

on a gen 2, you pull out the fuel pump assy by pulling the carpet back and unclocking the holddown ring. piece of cake-5 min. job

 

[Martin]

Well, if the manual was wrong that would be another QC problem
Seriously, are you sure that you're looking at the procedure for a Coupe and not for the RT that do indeed have a pop-riveted panel?

Yeah, I'm 100% sure I'm looking at the right section. Hopefully I don't have to find out first hand, though - the fuel pump works fine now, knock on wood...

 

[hdscreens]

Maybe it wasn't detailed correctly, have you tried to wash/wax it out. You could also try some clay. The problem I have seen with all the polished wheels, is that everything scratches them, but you can buff it out.

I have been thinking about buffing my wheels. How do I go about doing this? Is there a certain chemical or what type of applicator would buff the polished wheels? Wheels are looking really dull so I assume I would use an electric or pneumatic tool.

 

[1BADGTS]

I have been thinking about buffing my wheels. How do I go about doing this? Is there a certain chemical or what type of applicator would buff the polished wheels? Wheels are looking really dull so I assume I would use an electric or pneumatic tool.

On a NEW VIPER ?.If so something is drastically wrong INTURN the dealership you bought it from should bring the ZONE REP IN ASAP.

 

[fastmd]

I have been thinking about buffing my wheels. How do I go about doing this? Is there a certain chemical or what type of applicator would buff the polished wheels? Wheels are looking really dull so I assume I would use an electric or pneumatic tool.

Depending on the wheel and how much room you have, you can use a small RO, Dremmel, your hand. I tend to use Mothers Alum. Polish and it works well. Finish with a tough wax.