Black SRT
Enthusiast
Better yet, you could also be agreeing to the $300 certificate alone as "full satisfaction of any claims."
Not Happy
- Thread starter RC Viper
- Start date
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
I don't believe DC is legally obligated to do much beyond repair the problems with the vehicle.
I think what they are worried about is
-The owners of these cars getting together in some sort of "class action" group
-Claims beyond simple fixing of the problem relating to loss of value, loss of driving time, etc, etc.
Let's think about this one. What are people's REAL concerns here?
1) Cosmetic damage to the car may result from the work
2) The engine may not be "as good as new" because the people doing the work are not experienced in this work. In fact, damage may occur to the engine from performing this work
3) There may be some stigmata associated with having one of the "defective ones" which may at some later date affect value on the vehicle
Here's how it should be handled. On item 1, DC should develop a STRICT PROCEDURE for handling this work, and get a CORRECT list of dealers who they are comfortable performing this work. Get the techs trained for specifically THIS PROBLEM and make sure only qualified trained techs are the ones doing the work on these cars. There are only about ~200 of them, it shouldn't be that hard to accomodate everyone.
On item 2, the above would help. They should also offer up CAAP as one of these "authorized facilities" to do this work, so that if some owners are particularly sensitive, they can get their car to CAAP (car owners expense I think is fair) and CAAP will make the change.
On item 3, they need to give something to owners for their trouble. Ported heads are obviously not an option. Since everyone would want something different, they can't just say "an exhaust" hence the $300 mopar parts gift cert. However the stigma is having one of the "broken" cars, and I think anything less than a FACTORY upgrade to something would still let the stigma remain. How about something GOOD from the Mopar catalog that is worth more than $300 and include it's installation as part of the upgrade. I dont know what they have for the SRT, but if it was the GTS, something like smoothies/K&Ns, and a MOPAR performance computer would be "fair". It would cost about the same as the $300 (maybe a tad more but not much) but they would be FACTORY parts and then these cars would be the 'strong' ones, not the 'broken' ones.
In addition, and to further address #2, they should offer a COMPLIMENTARY WARRANTY EXTENSION to 5 years/50k miles. I think that is very fair, and for a run of 200 cars, I bet it would not be a huge cost item to DC/PVO.
Would that make you guys happy? If so, will PVO/DC do it?
I think what they are worried about is
-The owners of these cars getting together in some sort of "class action" group
-Claims beyond simple fixing of the problem relating to loss of value, loss of driving time, etc, etc.
Let's think about this one. What are people's REAL concerns here?
1) Cosmetic damage to the car may result from the work
2) The engine may not be "as good as new" because the people doing the work are not experienced in this work. In fact, damage may occur to the engine from performing this work
3) There may be some stigmata associated with having one of the "defective ones" which may at some later date affect value on the vehicle
Here's how it should be handled. On item 1, DC should develop a STRICT PROCEDURE for handling this work, and get a CORRECT list of dealers who they are comfortable performing this work. Get the techs trained for specifically THIS PROBLEM and make sure only qualified trained techs are the ones doing the work on these cars. There are only about ~200 of them, it shouldn't be that hard to accomodate everyone.
On item 2, the above would help. They should also offer up CAAP as one of these "authorized facilities" to do this work, so that if some owners are particularly sensitive, they can get their car to CAAP (car owners expense I think is fair) and CAAP will make the change.
On item 3, they need to give something to owners for their trouble. Ported heads are obviously not an option. Since everyone would want something different, they can't just say "an exhaust" hence the $300 mopar parts gift cert. However the stigma is having one of the "broken" cars, and I think anything less than a FACTORY upgrade to something would still let the stigma remain. How about something GOOD from the Mopar catalog that is worth more than $300 and include it's installation as part of the upgrade. I dont know what they have for the SRT, but if it was the GTS, something like smoothies/K&Ns, and a MOPAR performance computer would be "fair". It would cost about the same as the $300 (maybe a tad more but not much) but they would be FACTORY parts and then these cars would be the 'strong' ones, not the 'broken' ones.
In addition, and to further address #2, they should offer a COMPLIMENTARY WARRANTY EXTENSION to 5 years/50k miles. I think that is very fair, and for a run of 200 cars, I bet it would not be a huge cost item to DC/PVO.
Would that make you guys happy? If so, will PVO/DC do it?
How can we be sure that the tech at the dealership is actually trained to work on the Viper? Do they actually have a certificate and is their training up to date? Does DC have a list of dealers in North America that have trained techs?
After the repair is done how can we be sure that we got the car we paid for? I think DC should not only have to do the repairs, in the manner Mike suggests, but also give us the proof that the HP & torque is increased to the proper level.
Lots of pi$$ed of owners - hope Dodge is listening and will give us some answers and better solutions to this problem.
After the repair is done how can we be sure that we got the car we paid for? I think DC should not only have to do the repairs, in the manner Mike suggests, but also give us the proof that the HP & torque is increased to the proper level.
Lots of pi$$ed of owners - hope Dodge is listening and will give us some answers and better solutions to this problem.
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
Mike's 1., 2., and 3. pretty much cover the concerns I have heard and mine as well.
6 Hours to do a proper valve replacement job is crazy. Do you want to put your car in a flat rate based dealership that will get paid 6 hours to do this work? I want a dealership that will do what is necessary to do the replacement properly no matter how many hours?
Currently there is no dealership in N. California that has been defined to do the work, that is acceptable to me! The old Stevens Creek Dodge would have had my car as soon as the repair kit was available. And I knew they would do a good job because their staff from Service Director to Viper Tech were committed to provide the service a Viper deserves. I would be happy to send my car to Bob Woodhouse and know they would do a good job.
Unless we are to believe that no damage to the seat has occurred? And that there is no need to inspect the valve seat with Prussian blue. (Coat valve seat rotate the valve with light pressure. From 9-35 of the 2003 service manual). Or is the corrective procedure to replace the valves without inspecting the valve seat(10)? How many dealerships have clean rooms for engine assembly?
I suggested to the ISG agent handling my case that the repair be done by Ben( Stevens Creek Viper Tech) with the agreement of Ted May for the use of his shop. The agent said she did not think she could sell that suggestion.
Another suggestion is to have Caldwell do the valve replacement. I know their facility is clean and their procedures(verify proper valve seat) based on performance and reliability.
My car will not be touched by any dealership that is not Viper service oriented from management to Viper Tech!
I also have confidence that PVO wants to take care of this defect properly.
6 Hours to do a proper valve replacement job is crazy. Do you want to put your car in a flat rate based dealership that will get paid 6 hours to do this work? I want a dealership that will do what is necessary to do the replacement properly no matter how many hours?
Currently there is no dealership in N. California that has been defined to do the work, that is acceptable to me! The old Stevens Creek Dodge would have had my car as soon as the repair kit was available. And I knew they would do a good job because their staff from Service Director to Viper Tech were committed to provide the service a Viper deserves. I would be happy to send my car to Bob Woodhouse and know they would do a good job.
Unless we are to believe that no damage to the seat has occurred? And that there is no need to inspect the valve seat with Prussian blue. (Coat valve seat rotate the valve with light pressure. From 9-35 of the 2003 service manual). Or is the corrective procedure to replace the valves without inspecting the valve seat(10)? How many dealerships have clean rooms for engine assembly?
I suggested to the ISG agent handling my case that the repair be done by Ben( Stevens Creek Viper Tech) with the agreement of Ted May for the use of his shop. The agent said she did not think she could sell that suggestion.
Another suggestion is to have Caldwell do the valve replacement. I know their facility is clean and their procedures(verify proper valve seat) based on performance and reliability.
My car will not be touched by any dealership that is not Viper service oriented from management to Viper Tech!
I also have confidence that PVO wants to take care of this defect properly.
dancojax
Enthusiast
Ok, so you're not happy. With all this complaining, maybe DC will treat us like other manufacturers do -- just keep their mouths shut and not volunteer fixes.
Can you name any call-backs for non safety NTHSA items from the 'other' sports car?
DC even fixed the steering rack problem dispite the only cars having a problem were track cars with non OEM tires. (or so I've been told AND BELIEVE)
Look at other manufactures and tell me how many offer rental cars, a 'gift certificate', etc. for a 'problem' of supplier non-compliance.
(Ford hasn't fixed the fuel tank problem on the Crown Vics despite being sued big-time.)
Keep up the good work, DC, and keep track of the ******** so next time I won't have to wait so long to get my new one.
and before you ask, yes we have a SRT and 2 older ones.
Can you name any call-backs for non safety NTHSA items from the 'other' sports car?
DC even fixed the steering rack problem dispite the only cars having a problem were track cars with non OEM tires. (or so I've been told AND BELIEVE)
Look at other manufactures and tell me how many offer rental cars, a 'gift certificate', etc. for a 'problem' of supplier non-compliance.
(Ford hasn't fixed the fuel tank problem on the Crown Vics despite being sued big-time.)
Keep up the good work, DC, and keep track of the ******** so next time I won't have to wait so long to get my new one.
and before you ask, yes we have a SRT and 2 older ones.
dancojax
Enthusiast
P.S. if you want to [******], complain about impotent things like why the 'roll bar' isn't. The older ones were track-able without aftermarket items. The SRT has provisions for 5-6 points, why not a roll-bar?
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
"I don't think this is unreasonable and I don't think it's anal retentive"
Ok, so I was a little harsh. I just don't see the big deal about a valve swap. No, this repair isn't done every day by the tech, but they should be able to handle it without scratching anything but their butts. It's the point of constantly shouting 'it should be done like this, my way, because my way is the only way and my thoughts and opinions are the only ones that count and someone will pay for not doing it my way and I'll NEVER buy another....'. The opinion that the heads should be replaced and that Chrysler has seriously underestimated the power ...blah blah. The 2003 was sold out. Looks like the 2004 will be too. Look at the happy posts about how DC handled this issue.....someone count them please! I saw tons of 'way to go!' and 'THIS is how it should be handled'." Then one or two say that it's just not good enough. It may sound harsh but the guy who buys 2 Ram 2500's has just as much clout with DC management as we do, probably more because he replaces them every year or two. Finally, I admit it, I cancelled the 2003 SRT because I was unhappy with the price increase to styling decrease, and the possibility of first year bugaboos worried me. I think I may have even said a few times that I would never buy another DC product, but once the initial anger subsides, as with most things in life, it's really not worth raisin hell about.
Ok, so I was a little harsh. I just don't see the big deal about a valve swap. No, this repair isn't done every day by the tech, but they should be able to handle it without scratching anything but their butts. It's the point of constantly shouting 'it should be done like this, my way, because my way is the only way and my thoughts and opinions are the only ones that count and someone will pay for not doing it my way and I'll NEVER buy another....'. The opinion that the heads should be replaced and that Chrysler has seriously underestimated the power ...blah blah. The 2003 was sold out. Looks like the 2004 will be too. Look at the happy posts about how DC handled this issue.....someone count them please! I saw tons of 'way to go!' and 'THIS is how it should be handled'." Then one or two say that it's just not good enough. It may sound harsh but the guy who buys 2 Ram 2500's has just as much clout with DC management as we do, probably more because he replaces them every year or two. Finally, I admit it, I cancelled the 2003 SRT because I was unhappy with the price increase to styling decrease, and the possibility of first year bugaboos worried me. I think I may have even said a few times that I would never buy another DC product, but once the initial anger subsides, as with most things in life, it's really not worth raisin hell about.
dancojax,
Why should we (affected SRT owners) not get what we paid for and why the hell do you think DC should "keep their mouths shut"? Do you really think we needed DC to tell us their was a problem with some of the SRT's - I think we noticed from the dyno results...
DC can keep the gift certificate and the rental car...all we want is a proper repair job.
You want DC to "keep track of the ********" so that it won't take so long to get your car next time? How did this problem slow down production??
dancojax, tell me, is your SRT one of the affected ones, or are you just sucking up and brown nosing to DC for some reason?
Why should we (affected SRT owners) not get what we paid for and why the hell do you think DC should "keep their mouths shut"? Do you really think we needed DC to tell us their was a problem with some of the SRT's - I think we noticed from the dyno results...
DC can keep the gift certificate and the rental car...all we want is a proper repair job.
You want DC to "keep track of the ********" so that it won't take so long to get your car next time? How did this problem slow down production??
dancojax, tell me, is your SRT one of the affected ones, or are you just sucking up and brown nosing to DC for some reason?
I am going to speak from an owner that IS affected perspective.
All of the non-valve issue owners should be let the people that are affected voice their thoughts and opinions. Yes the perspective matters. I never said one thing about the frame, steering rack and other issues as I was not impacted by any decision. In this case I am. For you to now come and say that I should shut up and think how bad it would be with another OEM that is difficult. I do not have an $84,000 sports car from another OEM and I have never had one so I cannot speak for how they would perform under a similar situation. I can say that for other OEMs that sell cars in this price range (or higher) a concern over service is significantly less. How does your Dodge dealer service compare to Porsche, Ferrari, etc. service?
How many of you have had something as serious as a cylinder head removal and rework done on your Viper at a dealer? Of those, if there are any, how many were done on brand new cars? I suspect the answer to both questions is none. I do know that engine work of this magnitude was not authorized for dealer service prior to this issue. They did not think a dealer could reliably do the job right. What the heck has changed? The price of the car is up 50% over my 1995 RT/10 and the dealers were not authorized to do internal engine repairs on it. And with it's clam shell hood it was significantly less prone to damage while being serviced. Take a close look under the hood of an SRT and tell me you believe that an average Dodge dealer would return a vehicle in the same condition it arrived.
I know some of you are going to give the free speech perspective. That's fine. It is a free country. So have at it.
All of the non-valve issue owners should be let the people that are affected voice their thoughts and opinions. Yes the perspective matters. I never said one thing about the frame, steering rack and other issues as I was not impacted by any decision. In this case I am. For you to now come and say that I should shut up and think how bad it would be with another OEM that is difficult. I do not have an $84,000 sports car from another OEM and I have never had one so I cannot speak for how they would perform under a similar situation. I can say that for other OEMs that sell cars in this price range (or higher) a concern over service is significantly less. How does your Dodge dealer service compare to Porsche, Ferrari, etc. service?
How many of you have had something as serious as a cylinder head removal and rework done on your Viper at a dealer? Of those, if there are any, how many were done on brand new cars? I suspect the answer to both questions is none. I do know that engine work of this magnitude was not authorized for dealer service prior to this issue. They did not think a dealer could reliably do the job right. What the heck has changed? The price of the car is up 50% over my 1995 RT/10 and the dealers were not authorized to do internal engine repairs on it. And with it's clam shell hood it was significantly less prone to damage while being serviced. Take a close look under the hood of an SRT and tell me you believe that an average Dodge dealer would return a vehicle in the same condition it arrived.
I know some of you are going to give the free speech perspective. That's fine. It is a free country. So have at it.
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
dancojax,
Do you want a SRT?
There are a few unhappy owners in this region who you may be able to resolve their dissatisfaction and fulfill your want with one of these jems. One member contacted me and suggested a class action, others want to know where to go, since Stevens Creek Dodge no longer exist. They had 2 good Viper Techs. We are doing a Dealership tour next month to meet the Owner/Manager and service staff and Viper Techs. Several dealerships were given the opportunity to participate. Clearly if they do not want to meet with the local VCA they will not be considered a Viper friendly facility. We (regional VCA) are actively trying to due our part in finding a dealership to fill the gap caused by the Stevens Creek Dodge situation. If successful the Valve problem in this area may be a non issue, but that is to be determined.
Viperfreak2, I am one who complemented DC for addressing the fix the way any good business would or should! I own a production facility and know crap happens! When it happens in my operation I do not pass the corrective action cost to a material vendor, who provided defective materials with a C of C. I absorb it and put in procedures to prevent the same thing from happening. Simple business 101, The fact that Ford and Firestone do not are the same reasons I buy DC cars and Michelin Tires.
And I do love my SRT!
Do you want a SRT?
There are a few unhappy owners in this region who you may be able to resolve their dissatisfaction and fulfill your want with one of these jems. One member contacted me and suggested a class action, others want to know where to go, since Stevens Creek Dodge no longer exist. They had 2 good Viper Techs. We are doing a Dealership tour next month to meet the Owner/Manager and service staff and Viper Techs. Several dealerships were given the opportunity to participate. Clearly if they do not want to meet with the local VCA they will not be considered a Viper friendly facility. We (regional VCA) are actively trying to due our part in finding a dealership to fill the gap caused by the Stevens Creek Dodge situation. If successful the Valve problem in this area may be a non issue, but that is to be determined.
Viperfreak2, I am one who complemented DC for addressing the fix the way any good business would or should! I own a production facility and know crap happens! When it happens in my operation I do not pass the corrective action cost to a material vendor, who provided defective materials with a C of C. I absorb it and put in procedures to prevent the same thing from happening. Simple business 101, The fact that Ford and Firestone do not are the same reasons I buy DC cars and Michelin Tires.
And I do love my SRT!
dancojax
Enthusiast
SORRY YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THIS PART, FRED.
GOT ONE AND DARNED HAPPY ABOUT IT.
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
dancojax,
If you think discussing a problem and trying to help local members find an acceptable solution is "-itiching" And next time DC should reward owners with defective valves by moving you ahead? Use your name and address so DC can reward you! They know who I am!
Has anyone called you asking what to do or where to take their car for this fix?
If you do not have the defective valves to deal with, you do not know how those that do feel!
Your advice and comments are appropriately noted.
If you think discussing a problem and trying to help local members find an acceptable solution is "-itiching" And next time DC should reward owners with defective valves by moving you ahead? Use your name and address so DC can reward you! They know who I am!
Has anyone called you asking what to do or where to take their car for this fix?
If you do not have the defective valves to deal with, you do not know how those that do feel!
Your advice and comments are appropriately noted.
dancojax
Enthusiast
Nope, just trying to say that I am not one of the guys on the sidelines complaining. Between Nancy and I, we have put over 75,000 miles on Vipers and have enjoyed them. Literally all problems have been taken care of by DC, although at times the cars have been out of service more than you would want for a daily driver. The power steering pump replacement on the '94 was on our nickle, but Team Viper furnished a free cooler for it.
I just wish owners would stop and think about what we get for what we pay compared to Porsche, Corvette, etc.
My brother, a died in the wool Corvette Man, doesn't understand what a VOI is, and those who haven't gone complain about the cost. Aint't trying to be DUHH man, just trying to show I'm willing to put up.
I just wish owners would stop and think about what we get for what we pay compared to Porsche, Corvette, etc.
My brother, a died in the wool Corvette Man, doesn't understand what a VOI is, and those who haven't gone complain about the cost. Aint't trying to be DUHH man, just trying to show I'm willing to put up.
luc
Enthusiast
dancojax
"can you name any call-backs for non safety NTHSA items from the "other" sport car?
Yes I can,the Ford Mustang SVT Cobra when they dynoed at less than 320hp advertised.
When you buy a "6 pack" of beer,do you expect to have 6 beers or 5 in it?
Luc.
"can you name any call-backs for non safety NTHSA items from the "other" sport car?
Yes I can,the Ford Mustang SVT Cobra when they dynoed at less than 320hp advertised.
When you buy a "6 pack" of beer,do you expect to have 6 beers or 5 in it?
Luc.
dancojax
Enthusiast
Don't consider the '96 Cobra a 'sports Car' (got one in Mystic Clear for driving at seasonal home when Vipers are not there).
Don't know about a '6-pack'. Only buy in cases.
dec
Don't know about a '6-pack'. Only buy in cases.
dec
luc
Enthusiast
Dancojax,
The facts remain that DC is not the only manufacturer to recall a car for less than the advertised hp and regardless if you buy your beers by cases or not,you still expect to get what you paid for.
Luc.
The facts remain that DC is not the only manufacturer to recall a car for less than the advertised hp and regardless if you buy your beers by cases or not,you still expect to get what you paid for.
Luc.
RC Viper
Enthusiast
One more clarification.
I do not realistically expect that DC would port and polish heads as part of this effort. In fact, I have checked into this and it would cost around $3,000 to have the work done at a qualified shop (not done by a Viper tech). My comment on the heads was made because I get the impression that DC thinks we should be pleased with being offered $300 worth of parts to make up for this mistake.
I am not dis-respecting Viper techs. As Janni commented, my car is maintained by one of the best in the business. I only question why the change in policy for this "recall". Even if there is a 99.9% chance that it will be done correctly by the local Viper tech why should I be required to take this chance when it is DC that made the mistake? There is less of a chance of error if factory rebuilt heads are installed verses having the local techs install valves in the heads.
I don't care if I get brand new or slightly used heads. I suggested some type of exchange program in my original note. This is what they did with the quarantined cars.
I don't think that I am being unreasonable or exceptionally anal about my car.
I simply want it fixed with the lowest chance of problems. From my perspective, having my Viper tech put on factory rebuilt heads satisfies this requirement.
I do not realistically expect that DC would port and polish heads as part of this effort. In fact, I have checked into this and it would cost around $3,000 to have the work done at a qualified shop (not done by a Viper tech). My comment on the heads was made because I get the impression that DC thinks we should be pleased with being offered $300 worth of parts to make up for this mistake.
I am not dis-respecting Viper techs. As Janni commented, my car is maintained by one of the best in the business. I only question why the change in policy for this "recall". Even if there is a 99.9% chance that it will be done correctly by the local Viper tech why should I be required to take this chance when it is DC that made the mistake? There is less of a chance of error if factory rebuilt heads are installed verses having the local techs install valves in the heads.
I don't care if I get brand new or slightly used heads. I suggested some type of exchange program in my original note. This is what they did with the quarantined cars.
I don't think that I am being unreasonable or exceptionally anal about my car.
I simply want it fixed with the lowest chance of problems. From my perspective, having my Viper tech put on factory rebuilt heads satisfies this requirement.
Allan White Mamba 200/200
Enthusiast
I got the same letter as RC Viper and am not happy either! When DC's Rep called she was very pleasant but really had no understanding of what the problem really was and what it would take to fix it. When asked for a recomendation for a local dealer with a qualified Viper Tech she could not identify one, but said if I could not find one locally, they would approve sending the car to a close by State. Today, I visited three local Dealers,one of which was 5 Star, and not one of them could assure me that their people had any experience with removing heads and changing valves in on the Viper engine. One even laughed when I told them that DC was allowing 6.2 hours for the work. He indicated it would take twice as long to do it right and were not even interested in doing the work. All this makes me feel very uneasy when it's probable the expertise is "short" and the desire to help is missing. I'm just going to wait untill there is some history of satisfactory performance on this issue, or DC comes up with a more realistic solution. By the way, why hav'nt we heard from VCA's "Honorary Chairman" Dr. Wolfgang Bernhard on this? He's certainly been out touting the car and accepting all the accolades from our VCA Officers. I have invested a lot of money in three different Vipers and don't complain very often, but this time it's highly warrented.I would like to hear from others who actually own one of the affected cars and what experience they have with getting this issue resolved.Thanks, Allan.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
I just have to think, with this type of car, it HAS to affect the resale value.
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
I second that emotion. I too thought about the Techs getting the 998 steering rack recall wrong even after they were trained and had diagrams. Fortunately my Viper Tech is excellent, however, other Techs and Dealers apparantly are not capable or up to Viper owner's standards of service and performance. I would be totally pi$$ed if I had one of these bad valve cars. Seems DC could have gotten more concessions from their valve supplier to do a more quality fix (like exchanging heads). Telling the SRT-10 owners the cars would not be released until perfect just makes their actual ownership experience that much worse compared to their expectations.
Well dancojax, if you don't own an SRT why don't you just stand on the sidelines and be quiet? If you can't run with the dogs, don't sit on the porch barking.
Alan, I agree with you and sure hope DC will step in and satisfy us as we all know that they read the posts here.
Maybe it's time for all of us to join together and try to resolve this issue as a group.
Alan, I agree with you and sure hope DC will step in and satisfy us as we all know that they read the posts here.
Maybe it's time for all of us to join together and try to resolve this issue as a group.
Milksnake
Viper Owner
Fred, perhaps all the owners affected by the intake valve need to get together and decide what actions we need to take. It seems that some "folks" are too passive about this very real issue. It also appears that D/C is concerned that we will all get together for a class action lawsuit. Afterall, we waited for perfection and what do we get! Who else in our region is effected by this recall?
We will call you soon.
Jeff and Anne Frost
We will call you soon.
Jeff and Anne Frost
Daffy Duck Viper
Enthusiast
If I was an owner of a Viper SRT-10 with the valve problem, I would organize a class action lawsuit. This is only going to hurt the resale value of an SRT-10 with this problem unless they give the engine a treatment that makes them identical to the other Viper engines or better than the other Viper engines. Not only that though, you have a flawed Viper. I would not stand for less if I shelled out $80K+ on a Viper. No way in ****. I know I don't own a Viper, but I don't have to own a Viper to know what I would do if I DID have one of these "flawed" Vipers. I will be purchasing a Viper next year, and you won't find me buying one that came off the assembly line with this valve issue. Not when there are plenty of others that did not have this problem. So what does that say about resale value? It's already being effected. And for anyone that tries categorizing this upset as a simple money issue - it is not entirely about money, not for those that can afford to purchase three or four Vipers. This definitely goes beyond money. This is about quality - getting the quality product you ordered and paid for. This is about what is right!
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Newport Viper
Enthusiast
I agree with Daffy. I wouldn't buy one ( valve car) either.
The more posts I read and the more I think about this issue, the more pi$$ed off I get. I paid about $140,000 Canadian, with taxes, for my SRT and really believe I should not have any less car than others.
I think it may be important for all of us affected to get together on this and have DC handle it the way it should be handled - how can we contact all of those who are affected? Anyone else agree?
I think it may be important for all of us affected to get together on this and have DC handle it the way it should be handled - how can we contact all of those who are affected? Anyone else agree?
Milksnake
Viper Owner
Yes, we agree. Maybe one person from each region can be the point person. For example, if you were the point person for your region maybe everyone can contact you. We really need to generate a list of all people who are effected and make decisions as a group. I know some people do not think it is a big deal, but it is if it is your car. As you said, it is not about the money, it is about the principle. We also need to contact the magazines. If you recall, the heat issue really was not addressed until it showed up in the magazines.
Who can suggest what our next step should be? Are there any lawyers in the affected group?
We will not sign the paper.
Who can suggest what our next step should be? Are there any lawyers in the affected group?
We will not sign the paper.
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
I WILL SAY IT AGAIN..
YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO THINK LIKE THE UPPER MANAGEMENT AT DAIMLER CHRYSLER
TO THEM "IT IS ONLY A DODGE"!
DO YOU THINK THAT IF AN OWNER OF A NEW SL-55 OR ANY OTHER NEW MBZ HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS THAT DC WOULD CHEAP OUT AND NOT REPLACE THE HEADS?
NOOOO WAY!
I KNOW FROM DIRECT EXPERIANCE THAT MBZ HANDLES THEIR CUSTOMERS WITH KIT GLOVES AND WITH RESPECT!
I BOUGHT A USED MERCEDES SL ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO, NOT FROM A MBZ DEALER..
WHEN I BROUGHT THE CAR IN FOR AN OIL CHANGE, THE MBZ DEALER NOTICED AND TOLD ME THAT A PRIOR 5 YEAR OLD COMPLETE SUB-FRAME RECALL HAD NEVER BEEN DONE..THE DEALER VOLUNTARILY REPLACED THE ENTIRE SUB-FRAME... PLUS! AT NO CHARGE FOR PARTS OR LABOR! ALL OF THE BUSHINGS,THE FRONT SHOCKS AND THE TIE RODS ON A CAR WITH ALMOST 90K MILES!!. THEY GAVE ME A NEW BENZ LOANER CAR AND WHEN I PICKED UP MY CAR IT WAS FRESHLY WASHED!
HAS ANYONE EVER HAD A DODGE DEALER HAND WASH YOUR VIPER?
WHEN I BROUGHT MY NEW VIPER TO THE LARGEST LOCAL 5 STAR DODGE DEALER FOR WARRANTY ON THE SOFT TOP THEY ****** ME AROUND FOR OVER AN HOUR.....FINALLY THEY AGREED TO REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE TOP UNDER WARRANTY..
WHEN I SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE HEAD SERVICE MANAGER "JOHN" IF I COULD BRING JUST THE TOP BACK HE SAID "NO PROBLEM THAT I DID NOT NEED TO BRING THE CAR BACK"..
A WEEK LATER THE NEW TOP CAME IN AND I DROVE OUR SUV WITH THE JUST THE TOP THE 40 MILES BACK TO THE DEALER TO EXCHANGE THE TOP..
GUESS WHAT THE SAME HEAD SERVICE MANAGER NOW SAID??
" I NEVER SAID THAT" HE WAS VERY RUDE AND INSISTED THAT THEY NEEDED THE CAR..
HIS BULLSH*T STORY WAS THAT THE TOP HAD TO BE ADJUSTED AND FITTED TO THE CAR BECAUSE THE TOPS ARE ALL DIFFERANT..HE REFUSED TO GIVE ME THE NEW TOP.
WHEN I DROVE THE VIPER BACK THE NEXT DAY THE 40 MILES TO THE DEALER THEY MADE ME WAIT FOR OVER AN HOUR WHILE THEY LOOKED ALL OVER THE DEALERSHIP TRYING TO FIND MY NEW TOP THAT HAD BEEN LOST..
WHEN THEY FINALLY FOUND THE TOP, THE MECHANIC JUST HANDED IT TO ME AND TOLD ME THERE WAS NOTHING ON THE TOP TO ADJUST AND HE SAID HE DIDNT KNOW HOW TO FOLD IT TO FIT IN THE TRUNK..WHEN I TOLD HIM ABOUT THE FIT TO THE CAR STORY HE SAID THAT IT WAS THEY WANTED TO CHARGE DC FOR THE 2/10 HR INSTALLATION..THEY MADE ME DRIVE MY NEW VIPER 80+ MILES SO THEY COULD BILL DC FOR $26!!
I AM SUPPOSED TO LET THESE MORONS WORK ON MY CAR??
"WE DIDNT DO THAT! THOSE SCRATCHES MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE CAR WHEN YOU BROUGHT IT IN"
YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO THINK LIKE THE UPPER MANAGEMENT AT DAIMLER CHRYSLER
TO THEM "IT IS ONLY A DODGE"!
DO YOU THINK THAT IF AN OWNER OF A NEW SL-55 OR ANY OTHER NEW MBZ HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS THAT DC WOULD CHEAP OUT AND NOT REPLACE THE HEADS?
NOOOO WAY!
I KNOW FROM DIRECT EXPERIANCE THAT MBZ HANDLES THEIR CUSTOMERS WITH KIT GLOVES AND WITH RESPECT!
I BOUGHT A USED MERCEDES SL ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO, NOT FROM A MBZ DEALER..
WHEN I BROUGHT THE CAR IN FOR AN OIL CHANGE, THE MBZ DEALER NOTICED AND TOLD ME THAT A PRIOR 5 YEAR OLD COMPLETE SUB-FRAME RECALL HAD NEVER BEEN DONE..THE DEALER VOLUNTARILY REPLACED THE ENTIRE SUB-FRAME... PLUS! AT NO CHARGE FOR PARTS OR LABOR! ALL OF THE BUSHINGS,THE FRONT SHOCKS AND THE TIE RODS ON A CAR WITH ALMOST 90K MILES!!. THEY GAVE ME A NEW BENZ LOANER CAR AND WHEN I PICKED UP MY CAR IT WAS FRESHLY WASHED!
HAS ANYONE EVER HAD A DODGE DEALER HAND WASH YOUR VIPER?
WHEN I BROUGHT MY NEW VIPER TO THE LARGEST LOCAL 5 STAR DODGE DEALER FOR WARRANTY ON THE SOFT TOP THEY ****** ME AROUND FOR OVER AN HOUR.....FINALLY THEY AGREED TO REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE TOP UNDER WARRANTY..
WHEN I SPECIFICALLY ASKED THE HEAD SERVICE MANAGER "JOHN" IF I COULD BRING JUST THE TOP BACK HE SAID "NO PROBLEM THAT I DID NOT NEED TO BRING THE CAR BACK"..
A WEEK LATER THE NEW TOP CAME IN AND I DROVE OUR SUV WITH THE JUST THE TOP THE 40 MILES BACK TO THE DEALER TO EXCHANGE THE TOP..
GUESS WHAT THE SAME HEAD SERVICE MANAGER NOW SAID??
" I NEVER SAID THAT" HE WAS VERY RUDE AND INSISTED THAT THEY NEEDED THE CAR..
HIS BULLSH*T STORY WAS THAT THE TOP HAD TO BE ADJUSTED AND FITTED TO THE CAR BECAUSE THE TOPS ARE ALL DIFFERANT..HE REFUSED TO GIVE ME THE NEW TOP.
WHEN I DROVE THE VIPER BACK THE NEXT DAY THE 40 MILES TO THE DEALER THEY MADE ME WAIT FOR OVER AN HOUR WHILE THEY LOOKED ALL OVER THE DEALERSHIP TRYING TO FIND MY NEW TOP THAT HAD BEEN LOST..
WHEN THEY FINALLY FOUND THE TOP, THE MECHANIC JUST HANDED IT TO ME AND TOLD ME THERE WAS NOTHING ON THE TOP TO ADJUST AND HE SAID HE DIDNT KNOW HOW TO FOLD IT TO FIT IN THE TRUNK..WHEN I TOLD HIM ABOUT THE FIT TO THE CAR STORY HE SAID THAT IT WAS THEY WANTED TO CHARGE DC FOR THE 2/10 HR INSTALLATION..THEY MADE ME DRIVE MY NEW VIPER 80+ MILES SO THEY COULD BILL DC FOR $26!!
I AM SUPPOSED TO LET THESE MORONS WORK ON MY CAR??
"WE DIDNT DO THAT! THOSE SCRATCHES MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE CAR WHEN YOU BROUGHT IT IN"
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
I remember the first time we brought the Viper in for service years ago. My other half asked, where we could get a loaner car. The service manager laughed and said, "Miss this is an American car. " Right then and there, I new I had no more pull than a Dodge Colt owner !
milksnake, you have a good idea about having one contact per region but how can we contact the owners who are not members? We have a small number of members in our region and I think only 2 of us that I know of have the problem but I am not sure with the non members.
Like you mentioned, is there any lawyers in our group that can help out?
Would be nice if someone from DC would step forward, without us having to go through all this crap, and offer a better solution - or even acknowledge that their CUSTOMERS exist.
Like you mentioned, is there any lawyers in our group that can help out?
Would be nice if someone from DC would step forward, without us having to go through all this crap, and offer a better solution - or even acknowledge that their CUSTOMERS exist.
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