Oh Oh!!! Need help please, coolant issue...

[aloushi]

2002 RT/10 13,000 miles and stock...

driving yesterday and accelerated really hard and immediately got coolant leaking out from the passenger side and steaming from under hood. I was only 1 minute away from my home so I drove it straight home and parked it. Temperature went half way between 190 and 250, that's the hottest I've ever seen it get. Upon inspection I found alot of coolant in the valley between both engine valve covers and on the right side behind front wheel. I checked oil and it is good with no mixture of any sort and the coolant is still nice and green but I did lose alot of coolant, probably a gallon or more...Can't find where it's leaking from...thanks for any help...

 

[LifeIsGood]

Look here...

Help me with cooling issue please

There is a coolant recovery bottle located in the front fascia...see pictures in the above thread...it is probably spewing out of that bottle. I had the same issue that you have a couple of years ago...it was my water pump. I replaced the water pump, flushed the coolant system, filled and burped...it has been good to go ever since.

Here is my original thread on the topic...

Coolant leak...

 

[Fatboy 18]

Well if you have coolant between the cylinder heads in the valley its got to be either the thermostat gasket or a head gasket! Either way you are going to have to remove the intake manifold to sort it Bummer!

As for the leak behind the right front wheel, could be build up of pressure from head gasket causing overflow bottle to discharge! Any white smoke being omitted from exhaust?

Sounds like you should first do a compression test, it may point you to a damaged head gasket?

 

[aloushi]

will do pressure test of coolant system tomorrow, no smoke from from exhaust...
with the amount of coolant that was almost instantly released I'm thinking a hose that I cannot see or access without removing parts, hope that's all it is...

 

[dave6666]

With coolant behind the right front wheel as you say, the only components in that area are the surge tank on the fenderwell above it. It does sound like a hose failure maybe, and possibly a bad cap that caused overpressure?

 

[am.mscl]

Guys coolant behind the right front tire to me sounds like near the passenger door which could mean one of the heater hoses? Several people told me to swap out the clamps on those heater hoses there because they were know to stretch and then the hose would pop off.
Might be worth checking that also.

 

[aloushi]

Dave, as I was driving it back home I looked in my right side mirror and the coolant was leaving a nice trail mark from rear wheel, that's where the bulk of the coolant was lost, definitely right side behind front wheel...I hope to God it's just a hose but I'm trying to prepare my self mentally for head gasket

I will update my findings after pressure test. I just had one hose fail a few days ago and my next step is to replace all of them. Is there any other components that should be changed/updated while in there, such as thermostat, water pump etc...??? thank you...

 

[speedracervr4]

It's gonna be a hose somewhere. Headgaskets don't just start leaking large amounts of coolant everywhere.If you let it get too hot then you might have a headgasket issue

 

[ViperTony]

One of my heater core hoses was loose (i.e. I forget to clamp it) and a trail of coolant was left behind my wheel and down my sills, etc. Check all hoses, connections, etc. as already stated.

 

[LifeIsGood]

I had one of the hoses from the water control valve leak so I replaced the control valve and all the hoses in that area. The valve and all 3 hoses totaled about $120. I used worm gear clamps on all the connections.

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[-FROG-]

If it was a head gasket... I would think losing that much coolant, at least a little would eventually get into the motor and you would see the white smoke coming out of the rearview mirror like a James Bond smoke screen. I almost think the water leak up top may have been the thermostat gasket (thermostat broke and caused massive pressure there?) and the water down below was the overflow tank from getting too hot. Just my thoughts... Good luck.

 

[Fatboy 18]

What's confusing me is why there would be coolant in the engine valley? Tear in the top rad hose where it joins the thermostat cover? Or there was so much pressure that the water went everywhere and the water in the engine valley is a Red Herring thrown in to put us off the trail!

 

[scottmarston]

What's confusing me is why there would be coolant in the engine valley? Tear in the top rad hose where it joins the thermostat cover? Or there was so much pressure that the water went everywhere and the water in the engine valley is a Red Herring thrown in to put us off the trail!

My main return hose back to the radiator sprung a leak because when I put the worm gear hose clamp back on after changing the head gaskets, I didn't get it on the hose straight. After multiple expansions later, the worm gear hose clamp ended up cutting into the main hose because it was a little cockeyed and probably on too tight. I think that particular hose is on the driver's side...so this may be of little help to anybody. Something to remember though when dealing with those worm gear hose clamps!

 

[aloushi]

ok, good news, the culprit was the heater core hose, it has about a 1" tear in it on the side that's towards the middle of the engine, that explains why so much coolant was in between both halves and on the passenger side. So I replaced and filled the pressure reservoir (only took about 1/4 gallon) I know I lost way more than that. I started the car and the coolant is NOT cycling and car will still over heat. Is it possible I have a lot of air in the system? Is there a trick to releasing the air??? When I turned my heat on in the car it was NOT blowing hot air...

 

[aloushi]

What's confusing me is why there would be coolant in the engine valley? Tear in the top rad hose where it joins the thermostat cover? Or there was so much pressure that the water went everywhere and the water in the engine valley is a Red Herring thrown in to put us off the trail!

Yes, Red Herring it is!!!, That's what had me concerned the most (coolant in valley), the hose was very distorted at the break point, I believe there had to be alot of pressure and the hose swelled before bursting, I lost alot of coolant, enough to leave a nice trail all the way home...

 

[klamathpro]

You cannot fill from the reservoir cap when you loose that much antifreeze. Disconnect one of the upper hoses and fill from there. Burp the system by massaging the upper radiator hose while idling, then disconnect again and add more. Repeat until most of the air is out of the upper radiator hose and it feels like mostly water is inside. Check again after driving and then watch the fill reservoir.

 

[dave6666]

As many times as I've had my radiator out - complete coolant drain... - I've always filled from the surge tank. You have to get the thermostat open to get the coolant circulating and then top off the surge tank. Finally, put the cap on and make sure the overflow bottle has a level in it and the hose to the surge tank is clamped at the tank. Otherwise it can **** air in instead of fluid.

The way I get the stat to open during a refill is over a period of a few hours I slowly heat things up running the car for a few minutes and then shutting it off. 15 minute cycles here. After a few hours of this the car will have gently heated up and the fluid will be fully circulating and the surge tank will take a big drink. I use the radiator funnel the whole time with fluid in it covered with a rag. Until the stat opens it will be pushing air out as it heats and that can make splatters. The rag controls that. Once the stat opens keep pouring more in.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, what do you do with this 2 hours of warmup? Drink beer, clean the garage, detail the car, kick the cat, mow the yard, drink more beer

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[AZTVR]

I use the same funnel thing that Dave is picturing. It is very interesting to see it burp air out, and also see how much the fluid expands when it gets hot. I haven't gone through the heat cycles that Dave describes; but, it sounds like a good idea to try out next time. (I've just been doing one heat cycle to get the thermostat to open and allow easy passage of all fluid, and did the squeezing of the upper radiator hose while it is hot and running, with the funnel on there to get the air out of the expansion tank also.)

 

[klamathpro]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, what do you do with this 2 hours of warmup? Drink beer, clean the garage, detail the car, kick the cat, mow the yard, drink more beer

Or, you do like the Viper techs do and just fill from the upper radiator hose and be done in 15 minutes. Seriously, you guys actually try filling it this way? This would take FOREVER. The reason why filling from the reservoir takes so long is not only does the T-stat have to be open, it then has to **** in fluid from the wheel-well reservoir first, then **** fluid from the fill reservoir. Chuck told me years ago to fill from the upper hose or else you'll never know if you've actually filled the whole system. Once it starts taking in from the reservoir, then the system has enough fluid to circulate and you can start topping off from the cap.

 

[dave6666]

Seriously, you guys actually try filling it this way? This would take FOREVER.

What part of I fill it that way was not clear? I don't have to be in a hurry and can do it whatever way I choose. No customer is waiting on my car, and I'm not on the time clock for a wage.

So let's analyze your fill method here... You've pulled the block drains for a full fluid drain / flush. Everything is empty. You fill via the upper hose and the thermostat is closed, so no air escapes the block and heads and not much fluid gets in. Next, you start the car and since there's no fluid on the thermostat it's reading air temp not coolant temp. Sooooooooooooooooooooo... Do ya think that when the air in the coolant passages gets to 190* that the actual fluid temp - what little is in there - is way above 190? I would bet that.

I believe my method, given the fact I'm not in a hurry as you think I should be, is slightly less aggressive. And it is my car, my 2 hours, my decision.

 

[Steve-Indy]

I'm with Dave here...having tried a bunch of methods to re-fill the coolant on our Gen I's and II's. BEFORE the above pictured funnel arrived, it took me many, many heat cycles OVER DAYS to really get the system stabilized...full of coolant and free of air. Now, part of the time spent was due to my home-garage, multiple flushes with 20-25 gallons of distilled water to be sure that I was doing a complete change...especially early on when I did not change the coolant as often as I have since learned to do. YES, I STILL use the Mopar 3 year formula in the Gen I's and II's....and YES, I can read...and NO...I have never heard anyone from the old TEAM VIPER or the current SRT "bless" using any other coolant (including Mopar's HOAT...5 year formulation) in these two Gen's of Vipers... including during face to face discussions.

Once I connected with the MAC tool guy, and started using the funnel...it became much more efficient !!

By the way...I still dislike changing coolant vs. all of the other routine maintenance jobs !!!

 

[ViperTony]

Chuck told me years ago to fill via the heater core hose. Which I have done but I found that by pulling the heater core hose it helps to purge some air as I fill through the surge tank. This has cut down the number of hot/cool cycles for me needed to purge the system of air. I will be using Daves' funnel next time (I dislike changing coolant too, lol).

 

[Mad Max]

On the Gen II there is a small pipe plug in the top of the t-stat housing. I removed it before starting to fill from the surge tank. Next I squeezed on the upper hose to help purge some air and filled some more, repeated a few times and all was good. I was able to get most of the coolant in this way before ever starting the motor. Once I did start it and let it warm up all the way and then cool down the level was down in the surge tank. Once I refilled it it hasn't dropped any more.

Brent

 

[Steve-Indy]

Brent...I should have known that you WOULD do things correctly...and without causing harm...but, some of us are rookies !!

That T-stat housing plug is supposed to vent the air prior to thermostat warming up and therefore opening. The problem is that many of those are hard to remove do to a "Loctite-like" thread sealant...that can/has led to damage being done to the cast aluminum t-stat housing...or worse yet, the intake manifold in some cases...both of which were reported to me by a very experienced Viper Tech. That plug takes a male pipe plug tool on a long skinny shaft and can still be hard to use on many individual Gen II Vipers. Because of this worry of damage to the components mentioned above, I purchased a Gen II T-stat cover, complete with the in-place bleeder and "bench tested" the torque necessary to remove the plug. It took 42 ft-lbs...which many consider very high given the casting that holds the plug !!! Since that time, I am willing to skip this particular recommended step...call me old-chicken-steve !!

 

[Tom Sessions]

What I find works well when on the "clock" I will unhook the upper hose from the t-stat housing. Back fill the engine by way of pouring coolant into the upper hose into the radiator. With the radiator cap off and sometimes a heater hose unhooked as well. Pour coolant in untill it fills the surge tank then reinstall the cap. Keep filling untill you see coolant in the t-stat housing and or in the heater hose. reconnect both hoses and heat cycle engine. This method fils the engine from the bottom and helps purge air out as coolant fills from the bottom.

 

[aloushi]

Chuck told me years ago to fill via the heater core hose. Which I have done but I found that by pulling the heater core hose it helps to purge some air as I fill through the surge tank. This has cut down the number of hot/cool cycles for me needed to purge the system of air. I will be using Daves' funnel next time (I dislike changing coolant too, lol).

I talked to the Wizard and he told me the same thing, refill via heater core hose and reservoir on right side (top of wheel well), once both full the car took a nice big burp and most of the air was gone from the system. Than had me fill some more from hose that has no clamp and connects right at top of same reservoir and drops into overfill which is located right side (in front clip/bumper cover. Make car hot than let cool down COMPLETELY and then start and refill as necessary. So it is still time consuming but as others stated better safe than sorry. I just finished driving her around and she's as good as new and temps between 187-193!!! Thank God that it turned out to be what it was and I appreciate all the helpful instructions from every one!!!
Oh and tomorrow I will continue to "baby burp" her..

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I cycle it and check it after every drive until it stabilizes.

 

[Mad Max]

Brent...I should have known that you WOULD do things correctly...and without causing harm...but, some of us are rookies !!

That T-stat housing plug is supposed to vent the air prior to thermostat warming up and therefore opening. The problem is that many of those are hard to remove do to a "Loctite-like" thread sealant...that can/has led to damage being done to the cast aluminum t-stat housing...or worse yet, the intake manifold in some cases...both of which were reported to me by a very experienced Viper Tech. That plug takes a male pipe plug tool on a long skinny shaft and can still be hard to use on many individual Gen II Vipers. Because of this worry of damage to the components mentioned above, I purchased a Gen II T-stat cover, complete with the in-place bleeder and "bench tested" the torque necessary to remove the plug. It took 42 ft-lbs...which many consider very high given the casting that holds the plug !!! Since that time, I am willing to skip this particular recommended step...call me old-chicken-steve !!

Steve,

No problems with removing the plug. I even made the tool I used to remove it with!

Brent

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

Guys coolant behind the right front tire to me sounds like near the passenger door which could mean one of the heater hoses? Several people told me to swap out the clamps on those heater hoses there because they were know to stretch and then the hose would pop off.
Might be worth checking that also.

Happened to me.

 

[AviP]

For me it was a loose pressure bottle cap. Spewed coolant all over at the gas station. Since it was too hot and I didn't want to debug, I just drove it home (5 miles) and let it spew over the driveway. Engine temp got close to red but everything was fine. I filled as per the instructions in the service manual.

Adding additional coolant
- To maintain coolant level, fill additional coolant in the coolant recovery bottle (in front fascia) via the overflow hose from the deaeration pressure bottle (near right front wheel).
- Prepare a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol antifreeze and distilled water.
- With the engine cold, take the hose off the pressure bottle, put a small funnel into it and fill until the level in the recovery bottle (seen through the slot in the right front wheel well) is near the top.
- If you can't figure out the level, it doesn't matter if you overfill because it just overflows from the recovery bottle.
- Squeeze the upper radiator hose until all air is removed/burped from the system.
- Start the engine, and observe the temp cycle from high (1-o'clock, 2-o'clock position) to middle (12-o'clock position).
- If this doesn't happen, add more coolant or burp the system as necessary.

I think the procedure is annoying because it's hard to see coolant levels in either bottle, even with a flashlight. But I've done this 2 times and the engine temps have always been good.

-Avi
1997 Viper GTS