Oil viscosity change for 2005

[Hans Christian]

Is my memory going bad on me - I now see that my 2005 owners manual stipulates the use of Mobil 1 0W-40.

I thought that 03 and 04 were 10W-30 or am I just on overload ??

if true; does anybody know why this change has been made ?

 

[Skip White]

Hi there Hans, sure would have liked to met you at the VOI. So many people there it was hard to find people I acually what they looked like, let alone those I'd never seen. Hope your enjoying the new car, as for oil,I believe previous models were 5w-30

I really don't know, but to me that's a step back, in efficiancy for the engine. Ligter oils seem to be the way for autos today. Ford has managed to run all there fleet on 5w-20 oil for several years, and I'm pretty sure this includes the Lightning. I'll stay with the 0w-30 Amsoil Serries 2000 oil.

Skip White

 

[Hans Christian]

Hi Skip,

I was trying to locate you but I guess there were too many unknown faces.

My wife and I, had the best time - we met so many great people - what a treat !!!

I will give you call once I am back from travels

Talk to you soon

 

[Viper X]

'04 is 10W-30. Don't know about '05, but an interesting question.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hello Guys,

Hmm, that is certainly an interesting change- but at the same time, makes perfect sense to me. Vipers inevitably run on the hot side. While the SRT does not run dangerously hot like most Gen-1/2, it still runs hotter than most autos out there. The SRT's use bleed down lifters, (Way to go Dodge...you morons) which rely on thicker oil to keep from making a large amount of noise. Unfortunatly, MANY SRT-10's are plagued by more lifter noise than usual, especially during hot summer months and down south. The change to thicker oil will certainly help with this problem.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Not surprising...have been hinting at this possibility for a couple of years...since Porsche (and Mercedes as I recall) changed to Mobil 1 0W-40 European Car Formula. Better startup lube, less startup emissions, and better fuel milage have been touted along with better protection at higher operating temps.

Also, of note: Porsche removed Mobil 1 10W-30 from approved list of oils for Porsches built from 1972-to-present that experience ambient temps of 86 degrrees F (and above)as noted in PCA's Panorama Mag a couple of years back.

Others have thoughts? Tom ??

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hans- Does it say 10W-40 on the Cap? or in the Manual?

I ask because if Dodge still has a deal with Mobil-1, then technically, they are putting Motorcycle on in the Viper- the only 10W-40 from Mobil-1 I can find is a motorcycle oil, and is 9.00 a Qt!

 

[Bernard]

I use Mobil 1 synthetic 15 -50

 

[Steve-Indy]

Dan...Mobil makes 0W-40...can buy it by the quart at some NAPA's, Mercedes dealers, and Porsche dealers. Porsche wanted $9.95 per quart when it first hit the market here in 01...then price fell to around $5.00 per quart last time that I bought some.

I'm STILL watching for it to show up at Wal-Mart in 5 quart jugs (wish me luck).

 

[Viper Specialty]

Steve, did you say ZERO? 0W-40? or was that a typo?

Does the 05 specify 10W-40 or 0W-40?

 

[Hans Christian]

Daniel,

Both manual and cap says MOBIL1 0W-40 (zeroW-forty).

 

[Kelly06]

Oh no, now we have the "great oil controversy" I hope a guru can chime in on this one. THey had to have a reason besides getting a deal on 10-40

 

[Steve-Indy]

Kelly06 said " Oh no, now we have the "great oil controversy" I hope a guru can chime in on this one. THey had to have a reason besides getting a deal on 10-40 "

It is NOT 10W-40...
It is 0W-40...as in zero-W-forty....the "1" in "Mobil 1" is making this hard to differentiate at a glance (MY usual reading method !! )

Yes, Dan...it has really confused many folks around here...I first was made aware of "the zero-W-forty" in early 2001 trying to locate it in quarts for some Porsche buddies (sure ENJOYED a few Porsches myself in the 70's and 80 's !!!)

Hope this helps.

 

[Kelly06]

Steve
Thanks for pointing that out. But don't we still need a guru? Maybe I am being stupid

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Howdy, all.

A 0W-40 would be an excellent choice. The "0W" characteristic would ensure good pumpability at low temperatures and reduce oil pump effort (power) to push the fluid through the engine. The "40" characteristic ensures good support in hydrodynamic bearings - cranks and rods.

I am somewhat suprised, though, because an SAE xxW-40 viscosity grade is almost physically impossible to achieve the fuel economy requirement for ILSAC GF-4, the requirement coming out for the 2005 model year. This is the round symbol on the front of most bottles that indicates the oil has met the OEM designed fuel efficiency and emissions system compatibility requirements. EPA gets involved in this because it affects the on-road fuel economy (i.e. the window sticker MPG figures are usually produced using ILSAC qualified oils) and the longevity of the emissions performance (some additives in oil are blamed for catalyst poisoning, so the ILSAC specification limits how much you can use.) Not having an ILSAC type oil as a factory fill or dealer addition oil is going to create a lot of political attention if the car is a US-market car.

I give Mobil credit if they have met the fuel efficiency requirement with the 0W-40 grade.

A less costly alternative is to look for synthetic diesel engine oil in the 5W-40 grade. It's got all the credentials and more. Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo all have a 5W-40 that may be a little hard to find, but aren't $9/qt either.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

As always, Tom to the rescue! Many thanks for the clarifications and recommendations.

This thread could not have been better timed, as I literally was "oil shopping" earlier today. I was going to pick up a couple cases of 5W-30 (Mobil 1) at Sam's Wholesale - $22 for six quarts. I wasn't quite sure if that was the recommended weight so I skipped it. Then I came home and found this thread. So tonight I was bopping by the newest Walmart (yes, I am a cheap bastard) and found 0W-40 (Mobil 1) for $4.77 a quart. Look for the black cap and European Car Formula on the label. And be careful - 0W-20 is usually right next to it in the same bottle with the black cap (Mobil 1). Oh yeah, and they only had 11 quarts in stock of the 0W-40. Bought 'em all!

 

[Viper Specialty]

Any of you guys with 0W-40 in your cars, do your SRT's seem to have quieter engines than the 10W-30 using cars at operating temps? Lifter noise is a big issue with SRT-10's. did the change help that?

 

[Kelly06]

I am trying to figure out the exact reason the factory made this switch and should we all do it?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

As far as the lifter noise, I assume 0W-40 was the factory fill on my 2005 and it is noticeably more quiet than my 2003. Indeed, I had the hood open for somebody at the track the other day and they asked me to start it up so they could hear it. I warned him that the lifters are pretty loud on the SRT and that it was normal. Started it up, and they barely made a sound. BIG difference from my 2003. Is it all in the oil? No idea, but it was definitely a big difference.

 

[Brian E]

Chris, have you checked your 2005 to see if Dodge returned to the larger Harmonic Balancer bolt, like they used in 2003?

 

[Viper Specialty]

well, here is some research I did on the Mobil-1 oil in question:

Mobil 1 10W-30 Viscosity;

40 degrees C: 62.0
100 degrees C: 10.0

Mobil 1 0W-40 Viscosity;

40 degrees C: 80.0
100 degrees C: 14.3

As you can see, there certainly is a large margin of difference between these two oils at high temps! seems to make perfect sense to switch! (I am, I can tell you that. DOH! Anyone want 13 Qts of Mobil-1 10W-30 with 50 miles on it?!!?)

 

[Kai SRT10]

What about Mobil 1 Racing oil 0W/30?

From the Mobil 1 web page:

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is intended for professional, amateur "weekend" race cars, as well as, modern high-output engines of all kinds. It is ideal for supercharged, turbocharged and high-revving, high-performance engines used in street applications. Note: Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is a different formula than Mobil 1 with SuperSyn 0W-30.
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is especially suitable for racing conditions, where conventional oil may not provide adequate protection
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is designed for use by professional, amateur and weekend racers.
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is ideal for high-horsepower, high output engines used in street applications.
Mobil 1 is not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.


Typical Properties

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30

SAE Grade 0W-30SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 56
cSt @ 100ºC 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 175
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 2.99
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 234
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.851


Here's the data on Mobil 1 0W/40:

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 0W-40

SAE Grade 0W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 80
cSt @ 100º C 14.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.6
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 236
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.855


And on Mobil 1 10W/30:

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 10W-30

SAE Grade 10W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 62
cSt @ 100º C 10.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 147
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.17
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 244
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.872

 

[Viper Specialty]

KAI- the swap to 0W-40 most more than likely intended to quiet down the tappets. 0W-30 will not have any effect on that situation, as its specs are almost identical to 10W-30 in regaurds to Viscosity, even lighter on the lower temps.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

As you might gather from Mobil's information, there is more to an oil than just the viscosity specifications.

The 0W-30 Racing Oil will have more anti-wear additives and additional friction modifiers. These additives are organo-metallics, and while they are soluble in the oil, they are "metals" in the sense that they can deposit upon the catalyst and render it less effective. The anti-wear additives are phosphorus based compounds and are excellent for wear protection, but with enough on the catalyst, poison it. (It's like the tetraethyl lead that was in gasoline; excellent for octane, death to catalysts.) Some friction modifiers contain molybdenum compounds that may also deposit on the catalyst, so these kinds of additives are limited in "regular" oils, but used freely in "racing" oils.

Anybody know if the part numbers for the lifters are the same? Clatter when hot or cold?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Part numbers on Lifters DID change. Gen 1/2 are standard type lifters, Gen-3 is bleed-down as best I can tell.

SRT's clatter when Hot.

 

[steve911]

with regards to the "hot" lifter clatter in the gen 3 cars, I don't know about anyone else, I really dont mind it.... The semi rumpy-**** idle of the v-10 along with the lifter "noise" takes me back a few decades to the 2 1969 Z-28 camaros that I owned. The solid lifter small block 302's idle was music to a hot rodder...

Sigh,

 

[Viper Specialty]

LOL, you're definatly speaking for yourself. It bugs the hell out of me! people who dont know cars often ask whats wrong with the SRT's when we park around town...

I am changing to 0W-40 tomorrow, I will update on the final results. I will post a noise comparison, as will as a hot/cold/cruise oil pressure comparison.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Sorry, I meant to ask if all Gen 3 lifter part numbers were the same. Did the clatter change with a part number change, as in Y2K5SRT's comment?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Well, as promised, I changed over to 0W-40 and here are my observations:

~Oil pressure jumps faster upon start-up when I dont use my pre-oiler.
~5-7 PSI increase accross the board, all temp ranges.
~Light lifter clatter is virtually gone.
~My two louder lifters are still evident, but not as much. They are definatly faulty, so no surprise there.

I would definatly recomend the switch at next oil change...

PS- I will update tomorrow after extended use... may very well get rid of even more clatter as the 10W-30 bleeds out of the lifters... I only drove the car for 15 minutes or so. I also still have about 15% 10W-30 in the mix, so the NEXT oil change should show even greater improvment.