Open face or closed face helmet for Viper driving only

[Achilles99]

[quoteBTW, fighter pilots have ejected above Mach 1 with an open faced helmet, and have had no head injuries, but we are comparing apples and oranges.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but the seat they are strapped to has a special attachment that shatters the glass... plus, don't fighter pilots have to wear oxygen masks and the huge visors, which essentially makes their helmet closed face? Or, have I been watching too much Top Gun

 

[Gary C (GaryCSilver04)]

Toooooo much Top Gun, lol, open face yes, only thing to run into is a Carrier Deck or the Ground...

 

[ViperRay]

I used to wear an open faced helmet on my MC (I might add that it's rare to see helmets at all in KS since it's not required by law and some people have no brains).I had an accident almost 3 years ago and lost some teeth. Now it's full face all the time.
Consider one made using light weight material... costs a little more but more comfortable. Expect to spend $300-$600.

 

[joe117]

Anyone who can afford a Viper should be able to afford two helmets.
Wearing a helmet for autocross is really unnecessary. This is a low speed, one car at a time event.
If the event rules force you to wear one, Get a good open face helmet that meets their rules and blocks your vision the least.

The need for eye protection from track debris during an autocross is a little hard to understand. What is it about a parking lot at 50mph that will jump into your eye?

I really believe that most of this helmet for autocross business is just drama.
The autocrossers want to see themselves as being in some kind of race.
Race drivers wear helmets so autocrossers need them too.
Drama.
****************
By the way autocrossers. Your insurance probably will not cover you if you wreck your car while autocrossing.
It's a timed speed event.
Does that bother you?
Probably not because you know it's a very safe low speed event. The odds of you needing a helmet are so low that it should never be a requirement.
*****************

Let's not get confused here folks. Racing or high speed track events are not the same thing as autocrossing.
NOT THE SAME THING. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
For real racing or high speed events?
Closed face helmet, fire suit and gloves, all good quality.
Five point harness and some kind of roll bar.

Anyone who goes racing or drives fast track events in a Viper should have roll over protection and all the other things I listed above.

Anyone who rides a motorcycle needs a closed face helmet.

 

[Achilles99]

Anyone who can afford a Viper should be able to afford two helmets.
Wearing a helmet for autocross is really unnecessary. This is a low speed, one car at a time event.
If the event rules force you to wear one, Get a good open face helmet that meets their rules and blocks your vision the least.

The need for eye protection from track debris during an autocross is a little hard to understand. What is it about a parking lot at 50mph that will jump into your eye?

I really believe that most of this helmet for autocross business is just drama.
The autocrossers want to see themselves as being in some kind of race.
Race drivers wear helmets so autocrossers need them too.
Drama.
****************
By the way autocrossers. Your insurance probably will not cover you if you wreck your car while autocrossing.
It's a timed speed event.
Does that bother you?
Probably not because you know it's a very safe low speed event. The odds of you needing a helmet are so low that it should never be a requirement.
*****************

1) I HATE hearing "if you have a Viper you can afford X." It has nothing to do with that. Why go out and buy unnecessary stuff when you don't have to? If you buy a closed-face helmet, you are covered for track events and autox. With one helmet. Joe, have you ever even stepped foot on either a track or autox before? Vision is NOT that hampered over an open face if you get a GOOD closed face with a wide viewing port. I use my SA2000 Nomex helmet (which is fitted with mic and speakers) for everything... SCCA racing, driving events, autox, and even at the local kart course.

2)Your comment about track debris at 50-70 mph obviously shows your lack of experience. Just because he has a GTS does NOT mean stuff will not get into the side windows. Has it happened to me before? YES. So, there goes your "little hard to understand" theory. It happens, and I'm sure I'm not the only one it's happened to. If you don't want to wear a helmet, that's fine. But, don't go around giving people advice about not having to wear a helmet in an autox. I saw a car smack the wall in an Atlanta autox. He was very happy to have been wearing a helmet.

3)Drama? For wanting head protection? That's ridiculous. You've obviously never been to an autox. I've been to several autocrosses. They ALL require helmets. The only time I don't wear a helmet in competitive driving is when I'm playing Gran Turismo 3. Geez, I don't know why I'm getting so bent out of shape over this. Maybe it's because I'm getting married this weekend? Maybe it's because I feel like WckdVpr... people who don't compete or run in the events giving advice when they have absolutely no real experience to base their opinions on.

 

[CHAD]

Joe, you make every thread that you tell-it-like-you-see-it a better one.

Chad

 

[Gary C (GaryCSilver04)]

I feel the drama is my fault, I will not post for 24 hours, this is my penalty,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Two helmets is a good idea. Then folks can STOP BORROWING MINE!!!

Honestly, that is the main reason I bought a second helmet.

 

[joe117]

Achilles99,
"Joe, have you ever even stepped foot on either a track or autox before?"
Oooo, wrong question bud.

I raced stock cars for five years, 91-95. That was some time ago but I do have about a thousand laps of experience doing wheel to wheel racing. Yes, hitting the wall, getting hit by other cars, big tire marks on the side of the car. the whole thing.
It wasn't big time racing but believe me, it was very competitive and I managed to be a division champion one year.
Not nearly as fast as racing a Viper, that's for sure. But yes, I've done some racing.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I've done some autocross too. That was a VERY long time ago but again, I do know what it was all about. I autocrossed many different cars. Been there, done that. Perhaps as much as an old pro like you.

I've done more than a little drag racing over the years. Again, many different cars and bikes.

As a young guy, I rode motorcycles in scrambles, they call that motocross these days.

I've built many engines, fast street cars, race cars and I've been around cars and car people for well over 40 years.

Now, tell me your experience.

Look, autocross is a very tame event. If you want to get dressed up like an F1 driver to do it, go for it.

My logic is this,
Any helmet will get in your way to some extent. If the danger of an event makes it worth the trade off, then it makes sense to wear a helmet. Riding any motorcycle would be one event where it makes sense.
A full face helmet is more limiting than an open face helmet. If there is no need for full face coverage, you are giving up some comfort and visibility by wearing one.
That is my logic.

Do you have a 5 point harness for autocross? I'd say that would be a very good thing to have. It will keep you off the wheel in a low speed crash into a fixed object.
And it will help hold you in the seat during the run.
It might even make you faster.

Again, I'm for safety equipment. Buy good equipment. Wear what makes sense for what you are doing.

And yes, if you can afford a Viper and take it racing, you can afford special safety equipment for the various events.

 

[joe117]

Achilles99,
Oh, I almost forgot. I'm not a pilot but I did fly in many Navy fighter and attack aircraft as a civil service electronics warfare specialist.
And they didn't have to force me to me wear a helmet.

 

[Sonny 00 GTS ACR]

Buy a good quality closed face helmet. Motorcycle helmets work fine but don't have the fire protection necessary to be approved by professional sanctioning bodies. Of course if you have a $100 head, buy a $100 helmet.

 

[Casey]

Buy a good quality closed face helmet. Motorcycle helmets work fine but don't have the fire protection necessary to be approved by professional sanctioning bodies. Of course if you have a $100 head, buy a $100 helmet.

LOL, good one!

I agree, buy a good closed face helmet and you'll be set!

 

[Achilles99]

Joe,

From what it sounded like earlier, it was as if you had very limited experience on an autox course. You previously said "How fast do you go in an autocross anyway?" Then, you said not to wear a helment. So, you've obviously not been to one anytime recently, since they ALL require helmets for the past several years. I just wanted to set the record straight on that one.

I reread this thread... you talked about a story where you knew someone who rolled over in a Fiat during an autox. Yet, even saying that, you don't think people need helmets for autox? What's up with that?

You also said earlier that you couldn't see how debris could get into a car at 50 mph. Again, you must either really be lucky or the tracks you've been on have automatic cleaners built into them.

Look, the point of this thread was to give someone advice on having a helmet... you've said you don't think a helmet is needed for autox, but then you also said that open face is fine. I'm just saying that having an open face helmet is a risk that just isn't necessary. But, I'll concede that open face is better than nothing (nothing would not be an option for autox these days).

Sorry if I questioned your track experience unnecessarily. Some of your comments just sounded suspect to me, that's all. I just think that you've been extremely lucky if all you've had is an open face (or no helmet, for that matter). I'd just hate to see a newbie get hurt...

 

[BadVenm]

Consider one made using light weight material... costs a little more but more comfortable. Expect to spend $300-$600.

I would say the $300.00 is bottom line equipment in the helmet world now days.

When I first started racing Motocross, Bell had the best helmet ad EVER....

A cartoonish photo/drawing of a head, side view, cut-a-way kind of a look to it, copy said....If you have a $10.00 head, wear a $10.00 helmet.

IMO, you can never spend too much to protect your brain bucket, no matter what you own, race, drive or ride!

Forget the fact of death due to a cheap helmet.....worse would be lifetime brain damage and your wife and kids having to feed you and change your diaper the rest of their lives! Spend a ton of money on the right helmet, then....don't crash, ever!

 

[pdmracing]

Buy a good quality closed face helmet. Motorcycle helmets work fine but don't have the fire protection necessary to be approved by professional sanctioning bodies. Of course if you have a $100 head, buy a $100 helmet.

Exactly, buy a good quality known brand name piece. The SA + a nomex liner & its worth the $$. Full face also come in 2 separate eye ports for guys who wear glasses, its a nuch larger eye port. A good bucket will save your life.I know from experiance, always buy the best safety equipment you can afford.

Also on the subject of rally VS F1 , the modern F1 car pulls over 4 g's in braking, they are probably on the cutting edge of fitness, on the lance armstrong level. In an interview with Ron Dennis about Kimi, the thing that impressed him the most about the kid was @ his test , he did a few laps & came in & said he wasnt fit enough to drive an F1 car. Ron said he was the first guy to admit it as the braking g's are unreal.

Rally champ Colin Macrea was driving a prodrive ferrari & he was not the fastest driver on the team by any means.

 

[joe117]

Like I said, I haven't autocrossed in quite some time. If you are going 70mph in an autocross and it is common for people to crash into things, then things have changed since I did it.
How often does this happen?
I remember it being a fairly tame event where there wasn't much chance of hitting anything solid.

Like I said, your insurance will not cover you while autocrossing but nobody has any worry about that because it is such a long shot that anything bad will happen.
I take that as proof that people think it is a tame event.

That being said, you better not go off course and hit someone watching the event. You would be in deep unprotected **** if that ever happened. I've seen a video of that happening at an autocross. I wonder if that driver lost everything he owned in the lawsuit.

How did our crappy old Fiat turn over?
In the olden days, many small cars had what was called a swing axle in the back. The two sides were independent but there was only one U joint on each side right at the inside end of the axle. If you lifted up one side of the car in a turn, the axle on the high side would drop down and tend to jack up the car keeping it up on that side.
Continuing the turn could make the car go over on its side.
I don't know how many of those kind of cars are still on the road. All it needed to fix it was a limit strap.

I can't imagine what would blow into your face in an autocross that wouldn't blow in your face going down the street on the road. I drive on the street all the time and nothing blows in my face.

The open window is a real danger. You can very easily get part of your body crushed in a rollover with an open window.
The idea that someone would need to be pulled out of a car through an open window in an autocross crach is simply far fetched.
There is a danger in having the window up and danger in having it down. The danger in having it down is the larger danger.
Drag strips make you have the window up.

I didn't say don't wear a helmet if the rules require one. I said that a helmet is probably not needed for autocross. If they require one then wear a good quality open face helmet that doesn't get in your way.

A closed face helmet is not as easy to see out of as an open face helmet. That is a fact.
You hardly need a helmet at all for autocross, other than to comply with their rules. You certainly shouldn't need a full race closed face fireproof helmet. The dangers are not equal for the high speed event and the autocross.

I think the guy who asked the question about helmets should get an open face for autocross and a closed face for high speed events.
And along with that closed face helmet, he better have quite a few other pieces of safety equipment before he does any high speed events in his Viper.

 

[ChrisGTS]

Just speaking to one point -- stuff flying in your face during autocross. This has happened to me before as well. I think the reason it happens is that many times, you are driving in a parking lot that does not see a lot of traffic, and there is more dust to be thrown up than you get in everyday driving. Plus you are turning your wheel sharply back and forth and at higher speed than in everyday street driving, which tends to allow material to be thrown into the air by the front tires. Then wind, or the movement of the car, can carry that stuff into the window. It gets even worse if you happen to spin.

Also, all of the car clubs I have autocrossed with (SCCA, PCA and BMW CCA) require you to drive with windows down.

I use a closed face helmet for autocross because I also do occasional track day events and I didn't feel like buying two different helmets.

 

[pdmracing]

Like I said, I haven't autocrossed in quite some time. If you are going 70mph in an autocross and it is common for people to crash into things, then things have changed since I did it.
How often does this happen?

were you @ the Orlando Zone rendevous?

 

[Achilles99]

That being said, you better not go off course and hit someone watching the event. You would be in deep unprotected **** if that ever happened. I've seen a video of that happening at an autocross. I wonder if that driver lost everything he owned in the lawsuit.

These days, every driver AND spectator is required to sign a waiver. Plus, the clubs putting the event have their own insurance.

I've never heard of a driver getting sued... but that's an interesting point you bring up. Waiver or not, I'm sure people have tried litigation at one point or another...

 

[joe117]

"all of the car clubs I have autocrossed with (SCCA, PCA and BMW CCA) require you to drive with windows down."

This is a stupid rule. Like I said, there are dangers in having the window up or in having it down.

The danger of body parts getting crushed is larger than the danger in having to get to a driver through the window in an autocross crash.

Someone please tell me why they would want the window down.

Stock cars require a window net. That keeps your arms in the car in a crash.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

all of the car clubs I have autocrossed with (SCCA, PCA and BMW CCA) require you to drive with windows down."

All the SCAA autocross events in this area require the window up for the same reasons mentioned by Joe. A helmet is required. I have also done a few track events where they wanted the windows up....to keep you and your parts in the car.

Steve

 

[Detlef]

Well I ended up ordering the Bell M2 Pro
Should be here next week. Thanks for the notice on the 10% discount for VCA members

 

[ViperRay]

That's the one I have.

 

[Detlef]

I hope you like it